More from the crypt. Used to be a fan of SonAmy when I was in my preteen and really early teen years. Ewwwww. :vTo reiterate on the whole "Sonic DRIVE" thing, it's still one of the most hype vocal Sonic themes ever and my total guilty pleasure from the series.Also fom Sonic X, the songs "Mi-Ra-I" and "The Shining Road" are really great tracks and I love those almost unabashedly. They're wonderful, and capture some spirit of Sonic I feel was lost to time and I can't exactly define it.Defended Sonic 06 and it's design decisions for a brief period of time. Around late 2007 - early 2008 I believe? Yeah.Used to be such a massive Sonic fan when I was younger that I'd probably push my younger self into a locker.Did a science fair project somewhat related to Sonic in the 4th grade. Jesus...
Okay. Prove it. Prove to me that Sonic Adventure is inexcusably unplayable in every version of the game. Show me how there's no way to find this game enjoyable or in any semblance playable. Show me how the game has a glitch at every virtual hedgehog footstep you take. Please, show me how it's so hilariously awful that it's gameplay is fundamentally garbage and doesn't deserve anyone's time. Also, show me how the game's technical issues have changed 0% between releases (despite that being hilariously incorrect). All you've done is said these same things tirelessly over and over for about seven or so pages, and backed it up with "oh it's my opinion". If you think it's dumb that you have to back that up with something besides that excuse, then you're not doing a good job giving people a reason to agree with you.
We know. And you know what? We all believe that it has those problems. None of us are defending it! Not even the decisions made that weren't related to those type of things, like Big! What we are saying is that it's not the ultimate detractors that make it a bad or irredeemable game. If we can excuse Mario 64's messy collision issues, Spyro 1's crappy camera, Crash 1's shoddy level design, OoT's archaic design decisions, and all of previously said games' glitches because of them being early 3D games that had room for improvement, we can do the same for Sonic Adventure. Especially since, like these other games, Sonic Adventure was the first of it's kind: a 3D Sonic game. And not just that, but a game that was fast (old 3D games + fast = control issues most of the time). And required frequent collision/physics interactions with slopes and upside-down pathways (physics are hard, and no other company had to worry about it quite like Sonic Team). If you think it's bullschlock that Adventure sort of gets a free pass from a lot of us for it's crappy camera and collision/control problems, then those other first attempts don't deserve them either. And if you're upset because those others improved while Sonic questionably flip-flopped from better to much much worse, then that's a valid opinion, but is neither here nor there in this conversation.
If you're going to spend 6 pages of this topic spiraling everything in a circle with poorly constructed arguments, you might as well have the gall to give a reason why you're doing it. After all, everybody else has the nerve to give reasons for their arguments while you have went out of your way to not give a single well-explained or backed up reason why you believe what you believe. But hey. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't know how someone could miss the point this severely. Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Crash Bandicoot, what have you, have all been emulations. They are the exact same game with the exact same code, written for the console they were built on, and are being played through programs meant to emulate the processing/graphical/technical/whatever aspects of a console. That work is done by the program, not the game, and thus if the emulation is perfect, the game plays exactly as it used to. Sonic Adventure's rereleases have been ports. Unlike emulations, ports are the game's code being... well, ported to another language meant to be read by a different console. This is exactly how the Adventure games have been handled. When a game is ported carefully (Mario 64 DS, Ocarina of Time / Majora's Mask 3D, Starfox 64 3D, the Mario Advance series) it can manage to feel as authentic, if not even better (if you prefer it that way) than the original, due to bugfixes, various additions and what have you. If it is handled carelessly by it's developers, however (like Sonic Adventure), ports tend to mutate and differentiate from the original game in regards to technical adequacy, causing glitches that may have not even been in the previous forms of the game. Sonic Adventure DX is exactly that, and the succeeding ports are exponentially worse, due to the PC version being a port of the GC version, which the PS3 / Xbox 360 version is a port of the PC version, and the Steam version (yes, they're different things) is a port of the 360/PS3 version is a port of the PC version is a port of the GC version is a port of the original game. No shit the game's actual content hasn't changed, of course it's the same game in all of those regards, unless accounted for like DX did with it's "updated visuals" and mission mode and whatever. Regardless if the game was glitchy at the start or not, DX and onward are even glitchier and perform much worse, giving no actual attempt to fix what was busted. Probably because they don't know how to at this point.
Once again, acting as if anyone's opinion back then didn't matter. There's always going to be those kind of people who disagree and say they didn't like it, too. Of course they don't! They weren't made in 9 months, they didn't go over the top with ambitions and biting off more they could chew, and (most of all) none of them were very fast games that required heavy usage of slope interaction and physics. Their camera systems and collision issues were often as miserable as Adventure's, but the games didn't require you to move as fast as it did, and neither did they require most of the level design to base itself around running on sharp inclines, up walls, and on ceilings. No wonder Adventure was so glitchy, because 3D was so new at the time that trying to do Sonic's gameplay just as it was in 2D was already too ambitious for it's own good! And look at that! While it was still a glitchfest, it happened to turn out being playable, and actually kind of fun. So yes, by today's standards it's a pretty bad game. But to act like it had no good ideas, no worth to anyone, or even any dosage of fun in how it played is total bullhonkus, and bandwagoning a hate-train at most. (Also, what Tara said.)
Okay so here's some history on Sonic Adventure. Once upon a time, Sega asked Sonic Team to rush the hell out of a Sonic game (the first 3D one at that), because they needed to deliver a massive game to release for the Japanese launch date of the Sega Dreamcast in 1998. For that reason, plus the sudden spike in creativity and ambition they'd grown since not working on Sonic for a good four or so years, Sonic Adventure's Japanese version was baked in about 9 months, making one of the fastest development times for any game I can recall of the top of my head. The result was... well, pretty bad, but with a lot of promise. The game was glitch incarnate, with all sorts of horrible issues that rendered the game by our (current) standards borderline unplayable. It also had some other minor differences in it's design (particularly that Sonic had a running blur effect which I wish was kept in all versions, but I digress) and yeah. Sonic Adventure later got it's English release, and was also rereleased in Japan as the "International Version", which was a bugfix made by Sega of America's at-that-moment blossoming "Sonic Team USA" section that patched over a lot of issues with the original game. One of many glitches fixed, for example, was the one Arin constantly ran into in DX where he'd fall through the floor. Now you may ask, "if they fixed it in the International release, how come it's back in the DX port?" Well, DX was put together by Sonic Team Japan IIRC, because Sonic Team USA was busy putting together games like Sonic Heroes, SA2Battle and the Advance series with Dimps during that time. Since DX was put together by Sonic Team Japan, they didn't seem to have the same bugfixes as SA1's international release, and while fixing some glitches, it kept others, and sort of made a few of them worse. Oh yeah, and the game got a visual rehaul that it honestly didn't need. A lot of textures were enhanced and models with higher polys were given to the main four in the cast (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy) but the art style was made more dull to... I guess fit the more realistic look SA2 had? Anyways, different strokes for different folks there, but if you look at footage of SA1 vs DX you'll see that a lot of the textures between the versions had been.. well, made more realistic, washed out, and at times lack the lighting that made the Dreamcast version's color and style stand out so much. But yeah. To put it in short, SADX is a pretty messy port of Adventure with a lot more glitches than the International Dreamcast version, and some (arguably) worse art design decisions. It has some of it's own nice improvements (like a free movement camera, and a map for the hub worlds), but overall it's just not as solid of an experience as the original version.
That's nice. Might want to contribute a bit more next time you make a post, please. I'll let you slip this one time since this is your first post, but I'm warning you that you're not gonna get far if you're only here to bring a rise out of people. :v
This is why the games would have to be made good enough on their own merits to interest new crowds into playing them. You get your diehard fans, you get your fans who were just outside of it all but were sort of interested in a few of these guys, and you reel in the people who would naysay these characters with good writing and game design set into their own projects (instead of split between it and 3 or so other gameplay styles) and prove those guys wrong. To say "oh we were wrong, they sucked" and push them in the background is the worse decision. But then again, pushing them into the series' face with as much emphasis as they used to get was the wrong decision, too. So I searched for a middle ground and found it. If the main series got it's head together and started being consistent with how it delivers itself, I don't think it'd be a problem at all. And even if they wanted more of whatever, who cares? Sega could just do with that side thing whatever benefits the big picture. It's not like it'd hurt or divide the fanbase even further anyways. There are some Mario fans that like the RPGs, Karts or Partys more than the main games, some Kirby fans who like Air Ride, Epic Yarn or Canvas Curse more than the main games, Zelda fans who liked Four Swords or Hyrule Warriors more, Halo fans who liked Wars more, whatever. So what? It's not like it'd be interfering. The only reason variety hurt Sonic is because there was no identity to hold it all together. Sonic was just whatever at any given time, unlike the previously mentioned series'. If that was fixed, this would be a non-issue. And of course I don't mind this direction being taken over my proposed one, either. I was just trying to think up ways to flesh out these characters and give them more to their personalities than just being extensions of whatever suits the game.
Okay, so I had an idea. We all know Sega struggles to find ways to use the other characters in the series without them diverging into different gameplay styles. Sega's even acknowledged this, and their answer to it is a pretty reasonable one: you now mostly only play as Sonic (or characters who relatively fit his gameplay, like Tails, Knuckles, Blaze, etc). Which I think is mostly fine, since that's what you're coming for in the first place. But it does leave a lot to be desired. Other characters aren't playable, so their presence is a lot smaller. How do we fix it where we have the Sonic games more streamlined for Sonic's standard gameplay, and still give attention to minor characters? Simple. We make spin off games dedicated to other characters, preferably on handhelds. Now on one hand you may be thinking "but how could you do that in a way that works?". Well, let's think about it.. Sonic Team really wants to take Sonic in new directions with different gameplay styles that benefit the characteristics of these other characters, right? We've known this is the case for ages; as it's the very foundation of a lot of the games that came out from the Adventure era and onward. So.... let's stretch our imaginations a little bit. Imagine an action-adventure-treasure hunting-beatemup game told from the perspective of both Knuckles and Rouge (which are different ends to the story), where it opens up some insight on Angel Island's mythos as well as Rouge's background, and maybe their odd relationship with one another. Imagine an over-the-top detective game about the Chaotix, with off beat humor and gameplay that feels like a combination of ideas from Professor Layton and Pheonix Wright. They go on these really harebrained cases, interviewing all sorts of people (including most of the entire Sonic cast) and sleuthing their way to finding answers to things that may have never been cases to begin with. Or maybe there IS a big one, and they don't know what they're getting into yet.. Heck, if you REALLY want to pull on those imagination muscles, imagine a MOTHER-esque RPG / Chao Garden minigame fusion where you play as Cream & Cheese, and you are travelling with Vanilla and Professor Pickle on a grand adventure to find sacred Chao Garden temples and raise Chao you meet along the way (which you would use to fight against Eggman's Artifical Chaos army, which would be revealed as the story unravels). These type of games would not only give time for these minor characters to shine, but also give Sonic Team the ability to build lore and new locations to Sonic's world, as WELL as let them scratch that itch of making games in different gameplay styles. And all that could be done while the main branch delivers the next main Sonic title. And I wouldn't complain a bit.
As I expected, I've been seeing a lot of "Sonic Adventure is so effing terrible" going around the internet thanks to this. Scattered minorities have said it before, and some of their reasons are definitely founded, but... I just don't see how Sonic Adventure is really that bad of a game as people are making it out to be. Sure, it's glitchy as hell and it has some shakier design decisions that we all know were made and there's no doubting that, but the game's maps really weren't that hard to navigate, and the gameplay for most of it was very fun. And sure it was glitchy, but has that really stopped any of Bethesda's games from being something people enjoy a lot? I'm not defending it's shit aspects or trying to say it's anything close to a masterpiece, but how come it's reasonable to pit it as if the game was never good by any sense of the word, even at it's time of release? Arin's obviously flubbing the game to death due to his inadequacy he has in every other playthrough, so how is it suddenly the game's fault when he makes the same kind of mistakes? In fact, how is anything he says about a Sonic game credible whenever he's one to act like the classic games (games considered by a grand majority as great) are awful games with terrible design? He honestly has very little good to say about Sonic in the first place. And let's be real: while Dan is sweet and a great person and all, I'm almost certain he would think different of the game if Arin praised it instead, since he seems really easy to persuade. Plus, from what I recall, he also has depth perception issues with 3D games, so there's that as well.. .... (Oh yeah, and the DX version of the game is a pizza shit. Should've played the Dreamcast version.) Idk. I'm just a bit tired of being told that I'm blindly defending irredeemably shit games when I know I'm not and it's not.
Roger's anger voice was nice. So was the gag. Didn't really like the episode too much though. Kinda doesn't help that the show's animation looks like it's getting a bit lazier. Where was the expression in Sonic's rant, for example? :\