160 replies to this topic

[theadvisor1234]

Okay, so, unless you've been hiding under a rock, you know that Sonic Team isn't the best at characterization. From flanderizing to just plain getting the personalities wrong, they've been quite inconsistant about how to portray certain characters.

So, for this thread, I'd like you to do three things:

1. Pick your favorite character that you think needs improvement in this area.

2. List the reasons that the character needs improvement.

3. Tell how you think the character's current personality can be leveled into a balanced, more likeable personality.

I'll add my own opinions later on. Please, keep the discussion civil. You can disagree, but be polite.

Edited by theadvisor1234, 08 August 2011 - 10:34 PM.

[Unknown User]

I know this isn't saying much but everyone.

Edited by Ishtar, 08 August 2011 - 10:47 PM.

[Vertekins]

Although I firmly believe that Sonic has been very well characterized with the exception of Colours to an extent especially in the Storybook games, I have always kinda wondered why so many profiles written up on official websites/manual profiles regarding him consistently state that he has a short temper, describing him in such a way that gives you the impression that he's intended to be some kind of hot head.

Very rarely do you ever see the purported 'short tempered-ness' in the games themselves. The only time I recall seeing Sonic act irritably was in Sonic Adventure. There may be hints towards this short tempered-ness in Unleashed and Night of the Werehog, in which Sonic as a Werehog can act with seemingly mild irritance at Chip (Shoving him out of the way when Chip asks for more tea in Pickle's lab, flicking Chip away when he accidentally collides with him after defeating the Dark Gaia Phoenix and restoring Chun-Nan) and, regarding NOTW, throwing a massive tantrum due to Baker taunting him with it's invisibility and attacking him without him being able to get a hit in edgewise.

Yet these very brief showing of short tempered-ness are not empathized to the point you'd think they should be going by the insistence of this part of Sonic's character.

I for one would be interested to see this supposed short-tempered-ness more elaborated upon, but not to the point that it consumes his character.

[Diogenes]

...all of them?

I'm just going to grab a few random ones to go into, for now.

1. Eggman: Stop failing so much. Obviously he's going to lose in the end, but too often we end up with some monster going rogue in the last few minutes and Eggman is just about forgotten. Colors was good, showed he could still pull off the final boss role in a major game, so keep the momentum going.

2. Metal Sonic: So much potential squandered. Make him a common character rather than an ultra-rare. Make him Eggman's main lackey, with a strong desire to fight Sonic even if it clashes with Eggman's orders. Nothing's going to be ruined by making him appear more often, because he ain't worth shit as it is.

3. Tails: Have him take a more active role. He's shifted into more of a support role as time went on, but he should still be out there busting robot butt even if he isn't as good at it as the series' heavy hitters. That's not to say he should abandon his tech-head role, but it should be complimentary to his more active heroism, not a replacement.

4. Rouge: Be more independent, and more morally ambiguous. Lately she's been little more than a buddy for Shadow; she needs to have her own goals, among them being a thief again.

5. Knuckles: Less comic relief. He can still be the dimmest bulb of Team Sonic (especially when it comes to things outside his areas of expertise), but he shouldn't be just the strong-but-dumb sort of character. I'm not too worried about justifying his appearance since he missed out on Unleashed and Colors, but for the long term they should do more to justify him showing up rather than forcing him in with little or no explanation.

6. Amy: Less clingy. Let her mature a bit in her pursuit of Sonic; she can still chase after him, but it shouldn't be such a lame and predictable joke. Make her an accepted member of Sonic's circle of friends, even though her crush annoys him.

7. Big: Show up more. Not as a major character, but more like how he was hidden in SA2 and SatSR. It was a fun gag and I kind of miss it.

[Azookara]

I really don't like how Sonic's irritableness, Tails' naivety, Knuckles' wisdom, and Amy's calmer and less Sonic-obsessed side haven't really been expanded upon (or for better words used) since the first Sonic Adventure. I'd also like to see Robotnik be somewhat calm and menacing again, like he was at the end of Sonic and Tails' stories in SA1 and all throughout the pre-final story of SA2; although that should be only in moderation compared to his usual bombastic ambitiousness.

[Aqua]

...all of them?

I'm just going to grab a few random ones to go into, for now.

1. Eggman: Stop failing so much. Obviously he's going to lose in the end, but too often we end up with some monster going rogue in the last few minutes and Eggman is just about forgotten. Colors was good, showed he could still pull off the final boss role in a major game, so keep the momentum going.

2. Metal Sonic: So much potential squandered. Make him a common character rather than an ultra-rare. Make him Eggman's main lackey, with a strong desire to fight Sonic even if it clashes with Eggman's orders. Nothing's going to be ruined by making him appear more often, because he ain't worth shit as it is.

3. Tails: Have him take a more active role. He's shifted into more of a support role as time went on, but he should still be out there busting robot butt even if he isn't as good at it as the series' heavy hitters. That's not to say he should abandon his tech-head role, but it should be complimentary to his more active heroism, not a replacement.

4. Rouge: Be more independent, and more morally ambiguous. Lately she's been little more than a buddy for Shadow; she needs to have her own goals, among them being a thief again.

5. Knuckles: Less comic relief. He can still be the dimmest bulb of Team Sonic (especially when it comes to things outside his areas of expertise), but he shouldn't be just the strong-but-dumb sort of character. I'm not too worried about justifying his appearance since he missed out on Unleashed and Colors, but for the long term they should do more to justify him showing up rather than forcing him in with little or no explanation.

6. Amy: Less clingy. Let her mature a bit in her pursuit of Sonic; she can still chase after him, but it shouldn't be such a lame and predictable joke. Make her an accepted member of Sonic's circle of friends, even though her crush annoys him.

7. Big: Show up more. Not as a major character, but more like how he was hidden in SA2 and SatSR. It was a fun gag and I kind of miss it.

I actually AGREE with you 100%! I can definitely see Amy working in a more independent, mature way while still keeping her crush on sonic. She did kinda show that in unleashed to me. Metal sonic really needs to be showed more often in games. Generations seems to be making him Eggmans lackey again. Everything else I Don't need to emphasize on it. although seeing big in certain cut-scenes of generations would be amazing!

Edited by Hedgehogs Boost, 08 August 2011 - 11:21 PM.

[Azure Yakuzu]

...all of them?

I'm just going to grab a few random ones to go into, for now.

1. Eggman: Stop failing so much. Obviously he's going to lose in the end, but too often we end up with some monster going rogue in the last few minutes and Eggman is just about forgotten. Colors was good, showed he could still pull off the final boss role in a major game, so keep the momentum going.

2. Metal Sonic: So much potential squandered. Make him a common character rather than an ultra-rare. Make him Eggman's main lackey, with a strong desire to fight Sonic even if it clashes with Eggman's orders. Nothing's going to be ruined by making him appear more often, because he ain't worth shit as it is.

3. Tails: Have him take a more active role. He's shifted into more of a support role as time went on, but he should still be out there busting robot butt even if he isn't as good at it as the series' heavy hitters. That's not to say he should abandon his tech-head role, but it should be complimentary to his more active heroism, not a replacement.

4. Rouge: Be more independent, and more morally ambiguous. Lately she's been little more than a buddy for Shadow; she needs to have her own goals, among them being a thief again.

5. Knuckles: Less comic relief. He can still be the dimmest bulb of Team Sonic (especially when it comes to things outside his areas of expertise), but he shouldn't be just the strong-but-dumb sort of character. I'm not too worried about justifying his appearance since he missed out on Unleashed and Colors, but for the long term they should do more to justify him showing up rather than forcing him in with little or no explanation.

6. Amy: Less clingy. Let her mature a bit in her pursuit of Sonic; she can still chase after him, but it shouldn't be such a lame and predictable joke. Make her an accepted member of Sonic's circle of friends, even though her crush annoys him.

7. Big: Show up more. Not as a major character, but more like how he was hidden in SA2 and SatSR. It was a fun gag and I kind of miss it.

I'm surprised Shadow wasn't on your list.
\


Anywho may as well throw my two cents.


Sonic: For a guy who's supposed to be labeled impatient he sure doesn't show it a lot, I want to see the irritable side of Sonic, what annoys him, what gets under his skin. I don't want him to be hot headed like Knuckles, but show that even he has things that set him over the top.

Tails: Needs a more active role, as people as said he's mostly mission control now which kind of goes against the becoming a hero thing that he went through in Sa1. I understand that he's become smarter and tends to rely on his mental skills to make up for his lack of power compared to his peers, but he shouldn't be dominated by them removing him from field work. People tend to see his technical side as a bad thing, I don't I see it as a compliment to his character development, its only when he's been reduced to a walking encyclopedia is when I get annoyed. Colors was better when it came to his relationship with Sonic, but he still kinda felt like mission control. He's there just not quite.

Amy: Less Psycho Stalker please. I understand she loves Sonic, but that doesn't mean she needs to be a parody of herself, its insulting and to be honest the joke is stale. I don't mind her clinginess and mood swings, but they need to be toned down to a tolerable level to the point where she can actually have a conversation with Sonic without her delving into "ZOMG SONIKKU I LUV YOU", she also needs other goals aside from getting into Sonic's pants, I mean whatever happen too becoming independent?

Knuckles: Less stupid, more badass. I mean seriously before Shadow ever came onto the scene Knuckles was the series resident badass, and they treat him like crap for the sake of a joke, its infuriating. I don't mind him being the butt of a few jokes, especially its between him and Sonic, but it needs to be balanced out by actual usefulness, in almost every game he's in nowadays he's just there to be laughed at or taken advantage of, never really doing anything. More emphasis needs to go towards his role as a guardian, its a key part of his character and shouldn't be forgotten. I really don't care how he shows up as long as he's doing something important.

Eggman: He really needs to step up his game, because he's always upstaged by some other villain whenever he appears nowadays. I don't mind there being other villains aside from Eggman, but they shouldn't upstage him reducing him to nothing more than nuisance. His plans are ok, he just needs to be in control of them and not let them spiral out of control, you have an IQ of 300, I wished you act like it.

Metal Sonic: Needs more appearances. Let him be Eggman's second in command who does his bidding, but he can also have a desire to beat Sonic which conflicts with Eggman's plans. Give him an actual personality too, I mean he's Sonic's doppelganger so he should have an evil twist on Sonic's personality, it would make his rivalry with Sonic a lot more meaningful.

Shadow: Dude needs to lighten up, I understand he's had a hard life but that doesn't mean every scene with him has to be serious business. Show he has a sarcastic and witty side, while still maintaining his stoic attitude. Have him throw an insult to the absurdity around him once in a while, put him in ridiculous situations, something to lighten the mood with this guy.

Rouge: Needs more independence. Her role can be summed up as Shadow's hoe, and nothing else. I don't mind her and Shadow being close friends, but they need to show her actually having some independence from him. Give her back that moral ambiguity, and seductive nature along with a witty sense of humor, have stealing more, show the grey side of her personality, show the bickering between her and Knuckles again.

Edited by Shadic93, 09 August 2011 - 12:58 AM.

[Aqua]

I'm surprised Shadow wasn't on your list.
\


Anywho may as well throw my two cents.


Sonic: For a guy who's supposed to be labeled impatient he sure doesn't show it a lot, I want to see the irritable side of Sonic, what annoys him, what gets under his skin. I don't want him to be hot headed like Knuckles, but show that even he has things that set him over the top.

Tails: Needs a more active role, as people as said he's mostly mission control now which kind of goes against the becoming a hero thing that he went through in Sa1. I understand that he's become smarter and tends to rely on his mental skills to make up for his lack of power compared to his peers, but he shouldn't be dominated by them demoting him from field work. People tend to see his technical side as a bad thing, I don't I see it as a compliment to his character development, its only when he's been reduced to a walking encyclopedia is when I get annoyed. Colors was better when it came to his relationship with Sonic, but he still kinda felt like mission control. He's there just not quite.

Amy: Less Psycho Stalker please. I understand she loves Sonic, but that doesn't mean she needs to be a parody of herself, its insulting and to be honest the joke is stale. I don't mind her clinginess and mood swings, but they need to be toned down to a tolerable level to the point where she can actually have a conversation with Sonic without her delving into "ZOMG SONIKKU I LUV YOU", she also needs other goals aside from getting into Sonic's pants, I mean whatever happen too becoming independent?

Knuckles: Less stupid, more badass. I mean seriously before Shadow ever came onto the scene Knuckles was the series resident badass, and they treat him like crap for the sake of a joke, its infuriating. I don't mind him being the butt of a few jokes, especially its between him and Sonic, but it needs to be balanced out by actual usefulness, in almost every game he's in nowadays he's just there to be laughed at or taken advantage of never really doing anything. More emphasis needs to go towards his role as a guardian, its a key part of his character and shouldn't be forgotten. I really don't care how he shows up as long as he's doing something important.

Eggman: He really needs to step up his game, because he's always upstaged by some other villain whenever he appears nowadays. I don't mind there being other villains aside from Eggman, but they shouldn't upstage him reducing him to nothing more than nuisance. His plans are ok, he just needs to be in control of them and not let them spiral out of control, you have an IQ of 300, I wished you act like it.

Metal Sonic: Needs more appearances. Let him be Eggman's second in command who does his bidding, but he can also have a desire to beat Sonic which conflicts with Eggman's plans. Give him an actual personality too, I mean he's Sonic's doppelganger so he should have an evil twist on Sonic's personality, it would make his rivalry with Sonic a lot more meaningful.

Shadow: Dude needs to lighten up, I understand he's had a hard life but that doesn't mean every scene with him has to be serious business. Show he has a sarcastic and witty side, while still maintaining his stoic attitude. Have him throw an insult to the absurdity around him once in a while, put him in ridiculous situations, something to lighten the mood with this guy.

Rouge: Needs more independence. Her role can be summed up as Shadow's hoe, and nothing else. I don't mind her and Shadow being close friends, but they need to show her actually having some independence from him. Give her back that moral ambiguity, and seductive nature along with a witty sense of humor, have stealing more, show the grey side of her personality, show the bickering between her and Knuckles again.

I just hope they don't try and make her the Morrigan of the sonic franchise.

[Azure Yakuzu]

I just hope they don't try and make her the Morrigan of the sonic franchise.

You mean she isn't already?

Edited by Shadic93, 08 August 2011 - 11:59 PM.

[thatguyfrom03]

Sonic
I've realized that since 1999, I've liked Sonic the avatar more than the character himself. It's interesting. He has no real quotables, his personality changes every game, and he usually just spouts corny lines. I associate Sonic's coolness by his actions, poses, and Sonic CD intro and opening demeanor. For every mountain of handkerchiefs he finds, he's usually doing something incredibly badass in that same game. I'm ok with that. But I think he could benefit from a consistent personality thats not Goku(Sonic 06 "Silver you tried to kill me but are you alright???) an ADD ridden moron(Shadow), or Cornball(Heroes/Colors). I think Sonic Battle kind of got it right in terms of dialogue. Really its not hard to make him an appealing character. Just do badass things, remain cool, and avoid corny lines. And do it game after game.

[Aqua]

You mean she isn't already?

Well I mean they make her more towards just focusing on um "Other things" besides her actual personality. I mean I want her to be a actual character not a object. Sure she can be seductive at times but not in every sentence she has to say.

Edited by Hedgehogs Boost, 09 August 2011 - 12:15 AM.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Well I mean they make her more towards just focusing on um "Other things" besides her actual personality. I mean I want her to be a actual character not a object. Sure she can be seductive at times but not in every sentence she has to say.

Well obviously I don't want her to be nothing but fanservice, but she does need some grey in her character. She should act seductive to get what she wants, and not to appeal to the furry fandom(Even though that's a forgone conclusion). She'll always be the sex symbol of the Sonic franchise,but she should at least have a character and personality to back it up. Yeah its stereotypical, but what isn't in this franchise at this point.

[Unknown User]

I thought Amy Rose the sex symbol of the franchise.

No, but seriously, I don't like Rouge's new voice. It's not her "voice". It seems too flirty. didn't SEGA say that there was more to Rouge than the "manipulative, cold, treasure stealing, seductive nature" but she was just hiding it?

[Flame Reaver]

I thought Amy Rose the sex symbol of the franchise.

No, but seriously, I don't like Rouge's new voice. It's not her "voice". It seems too flirty. didn't SEGA say that there was more to Rouge than the "manipulative, cold, treasure stealing, seductive nature" but she was just hiding it?

Pretty sure that died off with whatever Rouge implied at the ending of SA2. She's Shadow's accessory now, the end.

[Azure Yakuzu]

No, but seriously, I don't like Rouge's new voice. It's not her "voice". It seems too flirty. didn't SEGA say that there was more to Rouge than the "manipulative, cold, treasure stealing, seductive nature" but she was just hiding it?

Would you rather have the deep, 40 year oldish voice from 4Kids? Her new voice actually sounds young for a change. I don't remember Sega ever saying that, but who knows maybe she acts the way she does for a certain reason? We'll never know if Sega keep on pushing her to the side.

At least she isn't paired off with Shadow in Generations it seems.

[Aqua]

Would you rather have the deep, 40 year oldish voice from 4Kids? Her new voice actually sounds young for a change. I don't remember Sega ever saying that, but who knows maybe she acts the way she does for a certain reason? We'll never know if Sega keep on pushing her to the side.

At least she isn't paired off with Shadow in Generations it seems.

Um

Spoiler

rouge is in CE along with Shadow(being the boss) maybe there'll be a scene involving the two.

[Johnny Boy]

Omega: He can keep his trigger happy nature but let's not have him want to blow up something 24/7. And it would be nice to see him interact with characters other than shadow and rogue.

Knuckles: please stop making him the goofball comic relief. The chaotix can have that role. At least let him share the badass role with shadow.

Amy: Her characterization was going great in unleashed and chronicles, then Free Riders came in and changed her back to the same old same old. Make her more mature and have her act a bit like the mother hen of the group while still maintaining her crush on sonic.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Um

Spoiler

rouge is in CE along with Shadow(being the boss) maybe there'll be a scene involving the two.

I'm pretty sure Shadow's fight is on the Ark, and not in City Escape.

[Aqua]

I'm pretty sure Shadow's fight is on the Ark, and not in City Escape.

Still I'm guessing since rouge was also on the Ark at this point in time I think it's possible.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Still I'm guessing since rouge was also on the Ark at this point in time I think it's possible.

But she had nothing to do with Sonic & Shadow's final fight, and as you said she's in City Escape and not the Ark.