Can boost and spindash coexist in the same game?

[Chaos Warp]

Can boost and spindash exist in the same game together? They kind of clash, being both speed up moves. But if you underpowered the spindash, and made the boost more limited, it could work. Say the spindash was the same button as the boost, but you could only use the boost when your gauge was full (which would take 40-45 seconds to fully recharge). When your gauge was not full, you could press and hold the button for a spindash ala SA2. This could also be used to gain speed when you don't want to take the time to fully accelerate while running. The spindash could never go as fast as the boost though, so it's not overpowered.

So anyway, what do you think?

[Indigo Rush]

Sonic Rush had both, if I recall correctly. If you had no boost energy, you could still spindash when in a pinch.

I don't know how useful that was, though, since it was fairly easy to maintain boost energy. I personally think it'd be best to leave the spindash out of the 3D games, and make a compromise:

1] Whenever you boost, the initial first second have Sonic in a rolling motion, same for whenever he hits a dash panel while boosting

2] Keep the drifting ability as the "Spindash Drift"

3] Whenever Sonic does a walljump, have him do his traditional spinning jump instead of a simple leap

4] Replace the Quickstomp animation with one of Sonic doing a "vertical spin attack," similar to his bounce move, only minus the bounce

5] Replace the slide with a roll, at least in terms of animation; the slide and roll are very similar already

So, essentially, change nothing (or at least a minute amount) in terms of actual control and gameplay, and shoehorn in his rolling ability into his moveset. That's really all that should be done.

[Diogenes]

There's obviously no physical reason they can't exist together, but with the boost as it exists now, the spindash is redundant. Unless the boost gets a pretty major nerf, there's little point to having the spindash beyond aesthetics.

[Chaos Walker]

Sonic 2 showed us that it is really better if one of them exists, as the automatic speed boost really helps. I'd rather only have one, as I'm tired of convoluting Sonic's moveset with unecesary variations of flips and kicks.

[redhellc]

I think it can, you could use the spindash for other situations. For example you could substitute the slide for the spindash and use it t pass under gaps without loosing speed.

[Blue Blood]

Sonic Rush had both, if I recall correctly. If you had no boost energy, you could still spindash when in a pinch.

I don't know how useful that was, though, since it was fairly easy to maintain boost energy. I personally think it'd be best to leave the spindash out of the 3D games, and make a compromise:

1] Whenever you boost, the initial first second have Sonic in a rolling motion, same for whenever he hits a dash panel while boosting

2] Keep the drifting ability as the "Spindash Drift"

3] Whenever Sonic does a walljump, have him do his traditional spinning jump instead of a simple leap

4] Replace the Quickstomp animation with one of Sonic doing a "vertical spin attack," similar to his bounce move, only minus the bounce

5] Replace the slide with a roll, at least in terms of animation; the slide and roll are very similar already

So, essentially, change nothing (or at least a minute amount) in terms of actual control and gameplay, and shoehorn in his rolling ability into his moveset. That's really all that should be done.

I couldn't care less about animations compared to actual functionality.

[Indigo Rush]

It's like you entered this topic with the sole purpose of disagreeing with me.

[TwoTailedFox]

I think they can. It would be kinda helpful if you need to go really fast (speed run or something), but have no energy, you can just use spindash. And as Indigo Rush said, boost and the spindash were both in Sonic Rush, so yes, they can.

Edited September 16, 2011 by TwoTailedFox

[Gatestormer]

While the spin dash is an irrelevant move now thanks to the Boost, I still think it should be included in all Sonic games simply due to the fact that it's a timeless classic. It's like the Spin jump, that's been irrelevant as an attack since Sonic Adventure thanks to the Homing Attack but look what happened when it didn't hurt enemies in Sonic06, we went batshit crazy. The spin dash is just one of those moves that makes Sonic, Sonic and that should be enough of a reason to include it. I can't help but feel that he's a little incomplete without it.

[Blue Blood]

It's like you entered this topic with the sole purpose of disagreeing with me.

[Aquaslash]

I've always said Spin Dash for normal Sonic and Boost for Super Sonic.

[azoo]

Are you serious? I find your compromise ridiculous. It completely undermines the idea of doing something different with the game, and instead just makes it look different.

[Blue Blood]

I'd love the compromise for the fact that it at least makes spinning an important and noticable feature in Sonic's moveset again.

I'd say rolling and looking stylish are more important to be honest.

[Kuzu]

I'd say rolling and looking stylish are more important to be honest.

Spin Dash Drift?

[Blue Blood]

Spin Dash Drift?

No.

Rolling, as in spindashing or crouching mid-run to pick up speed on slopes. The spindash drift is just the drift.

[Kuzu]

No.

Rolling, as in spindashing or crouching mid-run to pick up speed on slopes. The spindash drift is just the drift.

What you're asking for is basically Genesis physics then, as that is the only way for rolling to be relevant in the slightest.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Shadic93

[Blue Blood]

What you're asking for is basically Genesis physics then, as that is the only way for rolling to be relevant in the slightest.

[Kuzu]

I found rolling and spindashing to be 'relevant' quite a bit during the Adventures. Very unrefined and touchy, but still good. And yes, I would like the to see more Classic styled physics and gameplay.The boost and spindash can co-exist, but I don't see how you could add them both as separate moves that are actually worthwhile in gameplay.

[EXshad]

2) The boost was still the de facto replacement for the spin dash. While this isn't ALL bad, holding a button to run through enemies is kinda annoying, and makes the spin dash obsolete. An idea could be that the boost could function like in Unwiished, where you could only use it a few times depending on how full it was, and each time, it boosted you for a set amount of time, and you couldn't control when it would stop. It would also deplete a large amount of energy. This would force people to use it more sparingly, especially with the level design I mentioned in step 1, and give the spin dash purpose again. I did like how the meter was filled in Colors, however, with special wisps being the only thing that could fill it, as opposed to something as common and arbitrary as rings. Now to perform the spin dash.. I dunno, I say when crouching, maybe press one of the trigger buttons to charge it, or something, especially considering that in Generations, when drifting, you do a spin dash. I dunno, that's my idea..

[azoo]

Like I said before, I'd find it better for M.Sonic to be given C.Sonic's Spindash, just with a slightly slower charge and more emphasis on building speed via slopes. Put that in the place of boosting and it kind of works as a double deal, considering that rolling does everything sliding does. That leaves a moveset of normal movement, jumping, homing attacking, rolling, Spin dashing, quick stepping, drifting, stomping and light dashing. That's basically putting classic gameplay, Adventure and Generations in a blender to create a unified gameplay. Of course, we could do without the stomping or light dashing (or they could at least be highly underplayed) but whatever.

And as Aquaslash said, give Super Sonic the boost in replacement of rolling / Spin dashing. He's super fast and invincible, and rolling and such is kind of useless while super, so why not? Plus, it's not like you need a gauge for Super Sonic's boosting.. unless constant boosting drained rings faster. Hmm, that's a completely different chunk of idea brainstorming altogether. I'll save it for Freerunnernext time.

Eh, is any of this a good idea, guys?

Edited September 16, 2011 by Azukara

[Blue Blood]

The Spin Dash was basically the boost in the Adventure games, so I fail to see how making the Boost look like the Spin Dash would be useless. I agree that the Spin Dash and Boost can't co exist, because one would make the other redundant however.

[Noir]

I've always said Spin Dash for normal Sonic and Boost for Super Sonic.

[Diogenes]

An idea could be that the boost could function like in Unwiished, where you could only use it a few times depending on how full it was, and each time, it boosted you for a set amount of time, and you couldn't control when it would stop.

For all I rage against the HD boost, the Wii boost is even worse. Taking control away from the player is not a solution.

[Blue Blood]

For all I rage against the HD boost, the Wii boost is even worse. Taking control away from the player is not a solution.

They could only take away player control because the level design was Straight Line Zone. I agree- it's the worst method yet.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Sonictrainer]

I think it can, you could use the spindash for other situations. For example you could substitute the slide for the spindash and use it t pass under gaps without loosing speed.

Edited September 16, 2011 by STrainer