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Awoo.

Can boost and spindash coexist in the same game?


Chaos Warp

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This. I don't mind pinball mechanics too much, but would prefer if they were less automated (e.g. having to actually bounce off walls instead of their being convenient springs, and using spindash or boost instead of having dash pads everywhere.)

This. Player input FTW.

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No, I meant that the force of Sonic moving at that speed into a Robot will surely destroy it.
Along with every bone in his own body, most surely.

Why are we debating this again?

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Along with every bone in his own body, most surely.

Why are we debating this again?

Whenever Sonic boosts, there's a surging "bubble" of energy around him. The "bubble" (or shield) is what damages the enemy, not Sonic himself.

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No, I meant that the force of Sonic moving at that speed into a Robot will surely destroy it.

Though to be fair, without his protective spikes, sonic should be destroyed along with the enemy. Hence the spindash. I think that they should at least change it so the boost has a spindash animation (like in UnWiished when going over dashpads, but so it does that whenver you boost.) My thoughts was that rings fill up his boost bar to make him faster (like the rings in Sonic X,) allowing him to break the sound barrier, creating a low-pressure area which draws in rings, and creates a sonic boom with either the shockwaves destroying the enemies or the field created around him pushing them out of the way to kill them.

edit: I just got ninja'd on both of my points.

Edited by Chibinuva
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Whenever Sonic boosts, there's a surging "bubble" of energy around him. The "bubble" (or shield) is what damages the enemy, not Sonic himself.

I'm both curious about why that would actually make a difference and why it matters in the first place when the entire point of this discussion in the first place was why said bubble shouldn't exist.

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Whenever Sonic boosts, there's a surging "bubble" of energy around him. The "bubble" (or shield) is what damages the enemy, not Sonic himself.

That too.

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I'm both curious about why that would actually make a difference

Because it's Sonic's nose vs. a shield of air travelling at over 300 miles per hour.

and why it matters in the first place when the entire point of this discussion in the first place was why said bubble shouldn't exist.

Not arguing you there, just clarifying.

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Because it's Sonic's nose vs. a shield of air travelling at over 300 miles per hour.

He's attempting to argue realism (or something) being the reason that taking damage makes no sense while Sonic is boosting, but "Sonic with a cone of air in front of him" would be no less dead if he hit something than "Sonic by himself."

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"Sonic with a cone of air in front of him" would be no less dead if he hit something than "Sonic by himself."

Can we test that in real life?

That's where game logic comes in (that is, logic that works when it's convenient for the mechanic in question). I'm no scientist on the matter, but Sonic being protected by that wind energy thingy is a good enough explanation for me.

And again, I understand it's not quite the focus of this topic.

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Can we test that in real life?

Air has density. The force of anything that hit the air in front of him would hit Sonic all the same. Not as much, but at mach one it wouldn't really matter.

That's where game logic comes in (that is, logic that works when it's convenient for the mechanic in question). I'm no scientist on the matter, but Sonic being protected by that wind energy thingy is a good enough explanation for me.

You're also not the one attempting to argue against changing the game mechanics under the reasoning that it doesn't make sense because it apparently isn't realistic or something.

Really, tsz11, what are you saying?

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Okay, I think I jumped in at the wrong time:

You're also not the one attempting to argue against changing the game mechanics under the reasoning that it doesn't make sense because it apparently isn't realistic or something.
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Truth be told. I really wouldn't mind if the Boost was depowered into just an instant momentum. This could raise the difficulty and make people actually want to use the spin dash(something nobody really did in Adventure games unless they needed an additional boost in speed). So yeah, it sounds like a great idea. It would be an added bonus if they got rid of redundant dash pads and by that, I mean Dash pads that just push you forward for the sake of doing so. Not for the sake of helping the player out if he/she no longer has enough to make it over, but it just pushes the player down the straight and narrow path for no fucking reason. This shit needs to go.

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Okay, eh just want say something before i throw my idea. I love Boost and i love speed that's why for me Boost is one the best things S-Team could give me. Having said that i have to say that i love the spin-dash too. I use it all the time with the older games and i'm going to use it like hell in SG.

Okay with this out of the way here is my idea.

I think both can coexist in the Modern gameplay. 2D/3D. What i'd love to see is that when you are in the 3D areas you'll use the boost and when you go to 2D areas the spin-dash will become available.

That way you get the best from both worlds. What do you think? Of course it's easier to say it than do it.

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Truth be told. I really wouldn't mind if the Boost was depowered into just an instant momentum. This could raise the difficulty and make people actually want to use the spin dash(something nobody really did in Adventure games unless they needed an additional boost in speed). So yeah, it sounds like a great idea. It would be an added bonus if they got rid of redundant dash pads and by that, I mean Dash pads that just push you forward for the sake of doing so. Not for the sake of helping the player out if he/she no longer has enough to make it over, but it just pushes the player down the straight and narrow path for no fucking reason. This shit needs to go.

Another reason they didn't use it was the addition of the homing attack. With homing attack, killing enemies in a 3D environment becomes a piece of cake. (and can take out aerial ones as well.) With the spindash, you can only hurt enemies on the ground, can't do chain attacks, and need to aim it manually. In a 2D environment, using spindash was more effective and you could easily do a spinjump to take out aerial enemies. Another reason is the boost and dashpads. Before, spindash was the main way of acquiring speed quickly (aside from hills,) but now you can just spam the crap outta boost to gain speed. I do like the idea of spindash being used in 2D segments, particularly if they also removed the boost and/or homing attack from those sections. Also, the "run button" means holding a button to accelerate beyond normal speed, even after running for awhile, as a sort of psuedo boost/sprint.

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I'm gonna start out by saying that I don't feel extremely passionately about this one way or another... however, I do have a preference for momentum-building and use of the Spin Dash for bursts of speed over the boost function. I tolerate the boost function in the games that it's in - I enjoyed the Rush titles and Unleashed, and I accept that the boost was a big part of making those games what they are. However, if we're talking about the future direction of the series, then personally I wouldn't be sad to see it go.

I still feel that one of the very few things Sonic Advance 2 got right was how it implemented what is, I guess, a kind of forerunner for the boost. When you were running for a set amount of time and reached terminal velocity, after a few seconds you'd accelerate and begin boosting, leaving a sprite trail in your wake. The boost would stop if you jumped, but it was fine if you hit springs or accelerated off ramps. To me, that was the best of both worlds - it provided the thrill of boosting and the kind of high-octane gameplay that boosting allows for, but you had to work for it and so it felt more naturally implemented into the game design. I never had any trouble finding locations to build up the necessary speed when it was required, so it wasn't a needlessly tedious chore (sadly the same can not be said for much else about Sonic Advance 2...).

I may be wrong, but IIRC it also didn't let you just boost through enemies - I'm not really a fan of that, because while it's cool, and enemies were never your biggest obstacle in Sonic games in the first place, it just serves to make them even less of a feature than before. There are many, many places particularly in Sonic Unleashed where you just simply boost through short trails of enemies - usually by accident rather than by intent. I'll admit that it carries some sort of raw satisfaction with it (... or maybe that's just me), but it usually just left me wondering, "What is the point?" - I'm not a huge fan of the generic enemy designs we started seeing anyway, so to have them be little more than random stage dressing just contributed to their unmemorable nature, personally.

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The reason Sonic can survive Boosting into an enemy is the same reason He and Shadow survived falling from Outer SPace to Earth.

So, basically, you have no reason for objecting to the boost working the way outlined by Blacklightning, and you should have said so from the beginning and saved everyone a lot of time.

:rolleyes:

Edited by Tornado
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So, basically, you have no reason for objecting to the boost working the way outlined by Blacklightning, and you should have said so from the beginning and saved everyone a lot of time.

rolleyes.gif

What I meant by that is Sonic's Body is very very tough. He can easily survive the Force/Impact of him colliding into a Robot at High Speed,

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wat

Are we REALLY talking about physics and science in a topic about an anthropomorphic blue hedgehog who can run faster than the speed of sound, talk, defy the laws of physics, and who fights a fat evil scientist with an IQ of 300 who imprisons helpless animals within robots?

...

...

...

Oh yeah, and the boost and spindash coexisting.

Edited by Wheatley
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What I meant by that is Sonic's Body is very very tough. He can easily survive the Force/Impact of him colliding into a Robot at High Speed,

I knew exactly what you meant.

So, basically, you have no reason for objecting to the boost working the way outlined by Blacklightning; and you should have said so from the beginning and saved everyone a lot of time.

Or, in layman's terms: Come up with a real objection.

Edited by Tornado
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When Sonic is Boosting, He is using the Built up Ring Energy to Shoot off at Mach Speed. The Force of the speed hes going plus that Energy shield-like thing is what lets him Destroy any enemies in his path. If your in a Race car, And your Driving at 100000000+ MPS right into a wall. Most likely that wall (and you) will be destroyed. The reason Sonic can survive that is because he has a very tough body and Can easily brush it off. Or its the Blue Air Bubble.

There is still some realism in Sonic Games. Its not like ALL Physics are destroyed.

If Sonic boosted into a Robot and lost rings WITHOUT the Robot using a Weapon or anything would make no sense at all.

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When Sonic is Boosting, He is using the Built up Ring Energy to Shoot off at Mach Speed. The Force of the speed hes going plus that Energy shield-like thing is what lets him Destroy any enemies in his path. If your in a Race car, And your Driving at 100000000+ MPS right into a wall. Most likely that wall (and you) will be destroyed. The reason Sonic can survive that is because he has a very tough body and Can easily brush it off. Or its the Blue Air Bubble.

There is still some realism in Sonic Games. Its not like ALL Physics are destroyed.

If Sonic boosted into a Robot and lost rings WITHOUT the Robot using a Weapon or anything would make no sense at all.

That's, uh, still not a real reason. Spreading it out over a long paragraph doesn't make it any more valid than it was the first, what, 5 times you said it.

Especially when you are speaking about concepts (force of an object in motion) that you don't seem to actually understand, but which wouldn't make any difference to the discussion even if you were using them correctly.

Also:

When Sonic is Boosting, He is using the Built up Ring Energy to Shoot off at Mach Speed. The Force of the speed hes going plus that Energy shield-like thing is what lets him Destroy any enemies in his path. If your in a Race car, And your Driving at 100000000+ MPS right into a wall. Most likely that wall (and you) will be destroyed. The reason Sonic can survive that is because he has a very tough body and Can easily brush it off. Or its the Blue Air Bubble.

There is still some realism in Sonic Games.

"So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?"

Edited by Tornado
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That's, uh, still not a real reason. Spreading it out over a long paragraph doesn't make it any more valid than it was the first, what, 5 times you said it.

Especially when you are speaking about concepts (force of an object in motion) that you don't seem to actually understand, but which wouldn't make any difference to the discussion even if you were using them correctly.

Also:

"So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?"

I dont want Sonic too realistic. Im just saying there is some real physics in Sonics world. evrything else is magical.

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