Jump to content

SEGASonic Radio
RSS Feed
Follow the Sonic Stadium's Facebook Page
Follow TSS' Twitter
 
Photo

4 Common Criticisms Toward Sonic and Why They're Stupid

Just a little somethin I wrote it :D ...GIVE ME ATTENTION NOW

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 T-Man

T-Man

    and into the eyes of a jackal I say kaaaaa-BOOM

  • TSS Member
  • 986 Posts:
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:T-Land
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:08 AM

*
POPULAR

So, yeah, see, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I've also been reading Cracked.com. This is the product of those two things. I wrote it for my blog, but Dissident said I should post it here and see what you guys think of it. Besides, I'm an attention whore.

To see how Sonic Generations is turning out really makes me feel good to be a Sonic fan. It seems that almost every week something new is revealed that raises my anticipation levels. Almost nothing about it looks disappointing in the least.

But if there's anything that Sonic is known for other than his speed, it's disappointment. Following the Dreamcast era, the main console Sonic games featured quite possibly one of the most crippling crashes and burns ever seen in terms of quality. This culminated in 2006 when quite possibly one of the worst games ever made came out titled simply "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG". It was released for the hedgehog's 15th anniversary and it was an insult not only to the fanbase, but to the Xbox 360 and PS3 consoles. Nay, it was an insult to video games in general. Nay! It was an insult to the human race as a whole.

Needless to say, people weren't so quick to forgive and forget. Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 was followed up two years later by Sonic Unleashed. Was it a great game? No, not at all. It featured Sonic turning into a Werehog at night to go through beat-em-up levels that were mediocre at best and absolutely insipid at worst. The good thing, though, is that that was only half of the game. You spent the other twelve hours of the day blasting through levels faster than ever before, dodging obstacles and taking down enemies and the way it felt can only be described as absolute bliss. With Unleashed, Sonic became more than just a fast-paced platformer; it became a series based around simulating the feeling of running at the speed of sound, watching everything fly by. Sure, it still had the Werehog, but if only because of how thoroughly SEGA nailed it with the daytime levels, I would say it is a genuinely good game.

But even the fact that Sonic turns into a Werehog doesn't excuse crap like this:

No matter what you think about Sonic Unleashed, the way the reviewer here presents his opinions is simply unprofessional. He begins the review by saying "There's one thing you should know about Sonic Unleashed before spending your hard-earned money on it: It's a big piece of garbage. BIG piece of garbage." As bad of a way this is to start a review of anything, I could at least see where he's coming from if he disliked the daytime gameplay. Much as I love it, I'm gonna be honest: there ARE legitimate reasons for disliking it. But no, he, too enjoys the daytime gameplay. But apparently the Werehog sucks so much that it kills the whole thing. Why? I dunno, it's just bad. Oh, and it makes Big the Cat look like an endearing character. Because I would totally rather go fishing - for frogs - in a Sonic game rather than play a beat-em-up. And the hub worlds are boring. Why? Because they're boring. What's this nonsense about "explaining his opinion" that you speak of?

It doesn't stop there. IGN wrote an article for Sonic's 20th birthday and made a point to mention Sonic Unleashed, calling it "one of the hedgehog's lowest points - ever" and saying "This is the game in which Sonic turns into a stretchy-armed werewolf thing. What else is there to say?" Uhh, how about the daytime levels where Sonic WASN'T a werewolf?

But for as stupid as all this is, you know what? I get it. Sonic 2006 is probably one of the worst games ever made. Not so easy to forgive that. That doesn't excuse such bias, but I can at least understand where such bias comes from. They were mad. We all were. But it's time to forgive and forget. Even IGN praised Sonic 4: Episode I and Sonic Colors, and Sonic Generations is receiving massive amounts of hype for a reason. And yet no one outside of the fandom has forgiven Sonic. What's even dumber is what they blame the franchise's downfall on. These are the same gaming journalists we rely on all the time for news and reviews on the latest games. Such bias against Sonic has extended beyond gaming journalism: tell anyone on the Internet outside of the fandom that you like the series and you'll be accused of having no taste in video games or, at best, you'll have all the bullcrap criticisms of the gaming journalists regurgitated at you. These are people who have never played a Sonic game in their lives and they are repeating the exact same things the critics are saying. This is why I have compiled this list of four common criticisms toward the franchise from people who either don't know what they're talking about or who are blowing things out of proportion. Bear in mind this is only based on what journalists, crtics and non-fans say: you will see none of the memetic "herp derp GREEN EYES" or "RYAN DRUMMOND WAS THE BEST VOICE ACTOR FOR SONIC BRING HIM BACK" complaints from the...less evolved members of the fandom. So without further adieu...

4. The Sonic series sucks because they tried to put it in 3-D! SEGA should only make 2-D Sonic games, that will save the series!

We start with one of the complaints that is, in a way, the most grounded in reality, as it is true that Sonic's 3-D entries beyond the Dreamcast era are the most infamous games in the series. However, this complaint is still uninformed and quite frankly annoying to hear, and I don't only say that because I'm a fan of a few of Sonic's 3-D entries. Sonic Adventure came out in 1999 for the Dreamcast. It had flaws, but it received great reviews across the board by people who somehow enjoyed speeding through colorful, well-designed environments in the exciting new third dimension - in (at the time) stunning graphics. For whatever reason, this tends to baffle some of the game's detractors who either say that it's aged terribly or was never that good in the first place. I think I'll let GamesRadar talk for me here:

"But people still seem to think this is the blueprint for a good Sonic game. It is not an exceptional game. It was slightly above average and adored solely because it looked worlds better than its competition,"
- Top 7 Games That Don't Deserve Nostalgia

Oh, better!

"And then, because Mario did it in Mario 64 and everyone liked that, Sega made the worst decision in its history - creating a Sonic game in 3D. The screenshots showed glorious forest and temple levels we couldn't wait to run around - but the game's camera was awful and you spent more time battling the controls than Eggman/Robotnik.

Fast things and 3D just don't work. Mario is fine in 3D as he's a slow fat man. Sonic, with his bouncing around and breakneck pace, just ends up dying and getting stuck on lumps of scenery. Even now, we wish with all our hearts that Sega would see sense and make a proper, big-budget, all-new Sonic game in 2D. Imagine that. If we all wish for it really hard, perhaps it will happen."
- The Ups and (Many) Downs of Sonic

You know, I could talk all day about how biased even the titles of the articles are, but I think I'll just talk about the content of them, particularly the second one. Now, much as I love Sonic Adventure, there are legitimate reasons to dislike it - a lot of them. The camera can be quite the annoyance, you have to go through four levels of fishing - for frogs - with a purple cat who appropriately has the intelligence level of Barney the Dinosaur, the voice acting and dialogue suck, and, while it's aged considerably better than, say, Final Fantasy VII, it's not exactly aged gracefully either. So, they do mention the camera, but according to them you also "spent more time battling the controls than Eggman/Robotnik". I'm sorry, are we talking about the crappy port for XBLA and PSN? No, we can't be, the date this article was posted on is September 18th of 2007, three years before the port came out. In the Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure, Sonic's controls are only jerky during its fastest moments, and those moments are usually either scripted or taking place in confined areas that don't allow death from poor control. If you're playing the game on XBLA or PSN, the controls are floaty to the point of being nigh-on unplayable. I can't speak for the GameCube version, but in the Dreamcast version, this is far from the case. (Also, if fast things in 3-D don't work, I guess that every 3-D racing game ever made has completely sucked, right? I love flawed logic.)


And then we have this sort-of preview of the 3DS version of Sonic Generations:

"On consoles, half of Sonic Generations is going to take place racing through 2D classic levels (which look fantastic), and half of the game will take place in 3D in behind-the-back chase sequences (which look on-par with the series’ typical behind-the-back chase sequences). We’re going to say what everyone is thinking: why don’t they just cut out those generally lackluster 3D levels entirely? Lucky for 3DS owners, the handheld version is going to do just that.


http://youtu.be/NruVz9FSX9M
Yeah, all those 3-D Sonic games look really lackluster. Totally don't look fun at all.

Oh, and by the way, this is the 3DS version of Sonic Generations. Tell me if it looks as much fun as the HD version:
http://youtu.be/NagIv5t9bbI
Nope, didn't think so.

3. There have been no good Sonic games since the Genesis/Dreamcast days!

...*ahem*

Remember this guy?
Posted Image
It was pretty much everything you loved about the Genesis games on Nintendo's handheld, and it's arguably more worthy of the title "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" than the game that officially received it. It also had two younger brothers, and while they weren't quite as good (Advance 2 especially), they were still pretty decent games. And now I raise you the Rush series on Nintendo's later handheld:
Posted Image
Posted Image

What Unleashed's daytime levels did for Sonic in 3-D, Rush had already done for Sonic in 2-D. It allowed you to tear up every stage at mach speed in rollercoaster-like levels, and both games were a crapload of fun if a bit easy, boss battles aside. Oh, and need I even mention that all of these games came out even before Sonic 4: Episode I and Colors? I understand that this is probably the most opinionated item on this list, but all five - five - of these games received very positive reviews from critics as well. Sure, they were all handheld titles, but does that somehow make it so that they don't matter?

Next!

2. The Sonic series sucked ever since the introduced characters other than Sonic and Eggman!

We're back to IGN again, here:

"When were Sonic games awesome? When it was just Sonic the Hedgehog on Genesis. As soon as Tails, Knuckles, and the slew of other weird, furry folks showed up, things started getting iffy with this franchise. SEGA needs to pull a Mega Man and get back to basics -- dump the dead weight, and give us a 16-bit sidescroller when we tear through a level on a quest to stop Robotnik and get wings. We don't want 3D, we don't want guns, and we don't want werehog. You can either put all the arbitrary characters into a bus and have Robotnik blow it up or just never mention them again. Either way, we'd be happy and the franchise would be saved."
- Videogame Characters That Should Die

I'm sorry, but weren't Tails and Knuckles introduced in Sonic 2 and 3 (respectively)?Which are universally considered by fans and critics alike to be some of the best games in the series?

Now, I'll admit that the series has gone quite a bit overboard with the characters. We have a purple ninja chameleon, a money-grubbing crocodile, a hyperactive bee, a moronic purple cat, a six-year-old rabbit whose voice sounds like a man imitating a six-year-old rabbit, a telekinetic silver hedgehog who comes from a post-apocalyptic future that was destroyed by some stupid-looking Final Fantasy reject so he has to travel back in time to destroy Sonic because he's apparently the "IBLIS TRIGERRRRRR", and...yeah, we don't really need those guys, and a lot of us don't even like them. I can understand how the overabundance of often annoying characters can get tiring to some people. But to actually blame the series' downfall on their presence is pure ignorance. It's not the characters that made the games bad, nor is it the fact that the series went into 3-D. It was poor gameplay and design decisions that ruined everything, and it's stupid that anyone would blame anything else.

1. No one likes the new Sonic games, so the series should just die!

Okay, there are two reasons why this is incredibly dumb.

For one thing, to companies such as SEGA, video games are a business. Even during his dark ages, Sonic games were selling like hotcakes, as they say. To pull the plug simply because of a decline in critical acclaim would be a ridiculous idea that would cost SEGA a lot of money, and your blind bitterness and hatred isn't going to make them do it any faster. Any thinking human being could tell you this.

For another, does anyone remember this game?
Posted Image
If you ever owned a Nintendo 64, you probably do. It was an amazing rail shooter with tons of replay value, graphics that were stunning (...at the time), and it came with a then-revolutionary rumble pak that actually allowed you to feel the action in your hands! It actually holds up well today...which is why they should have added a LOT more when remaking it for 3DS. But that's something I've already ranted about before. So what does this have to do with Sonic, you may be thinking. Well, I'm getting to that. Anyway, Star Fox 64 was followed up by this game here:
Posted Image
It was initially developed as an original IP by Rareware, famous for making the Donkey Kong Country series for SNES, the Banjo-Kazooie games and Conker's Bad Fur Day for N64, and numerous crappy shovelware games for the Kinect, and it would have been named Dinosaur Planet after the area where most of the game takes place. But Nintendo, realizing that people probably wanted a Star Fox game for the new GameCube console, looked at this game, said "Forget it," handed Rare a big wad of cash, and said "Put Star Fox in this game. Trust us, people will love it." Rare then said "Durr, okay!" and boom, Star Fox Adventures. Needless to say, there are mixed opinions on this game. Some hate it because it's not a real Star Fox game and some appreciate it for what it is, as it is a genuinely good adventure game if you can look past the moronic decisions surrounding it. I probably don't need to say that I'm part of the latter group, and I really think that Adventures wouldn't catch as much flack as it does if it were the only oddball in an otherwise consistent franchise. Unfortunately, it would exemplify the problem that would partially lead to the downfall of the series.

So, now I'm going to ask you if you remember either of these games:
Posted Image
Posted Image

Probably not.

Why?

Because they sucked.

To Assault's credit, it did feature rail shooting levels in the Arwing reminiscent of 64, and they were the best of what the game had to offer, but even they were slow-paced and dull compared to the levels of 64 and they took a back seat to ground combat levels that dropped you in an area, said "here's a gun, hunt down X amount of targets", were unrefined and controlled poorly, and just weren't much fun. And even the most diehard of Star Fox fans won't defend Command, which is pretty much what happens when you take the words "bland", "boring", and "frustrating" and give them physical form as a real-time-strategy game - yes, a real-time-strategy game - for DS. Star Fox didn't just go downhill; it losts its identity. Not even Sonic did that. And although Star Fox has fewer games, that just makes the fact that it has a smaller ratio of good games to bad ones that much more inexcusable. If you don't count Adventures, there are only two: 64 and the original Star Fox, and the original has aged so poorly it's almost laughable. I mean, look at this:
http://youtu.be/hJxkJ_Ze6qM
Does it look like anything you would see yourself playing now? Compare to Sonic's Genesis titles, which are absolutely fantastic even today.

So, if people are saying that Sonic should die...why does everyone want a new Star Fox game? Is it because we know Nintendo can do better? But if that's the case, then why can't SEGA do better as well? (Not that they haven't done better. I mean, really, Sonic Colors.) Is it because most of us only think of Star Fox 64 when we think of that series? Then why do we think of Sonic 06 when we think of Sonic rather than the Genesis and Dreamcast games? And Sonic Colors?

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a new Star Fox game. No, not at all. In fact, if it were good, I'd love it just as much as you would. But let's not be hypocrites here: if Sonic is to die because of a decline in quality, so should every other series that ever saw such a decline. Even if it's made by Nintendo.


Edited by T-Man, 25 September 2011 - 06:32 AM.


#2 ChaosSupremeSonîc

ChaosSupremeSonîc

    The Ever Learning Contrarian

  • TSS Member
  • 8320 Posts:
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:18 AM

So when is this going to be posted on your blog? It's a really good read!

#3 sonfan1984

sonfan1984

    Member

  • TSS Member
  • 2965 Posts:
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pennsylvania
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:20 AM

lol, I remember that IGN article about SEGA killing off every Sonic character in the series besides Sonic and Dr Eggman. I see fans of those characters throwing huge fits of rage cause their favorite character got removed rather then really helping the series. I remember when Sonic and the Secret Rings got praised for having Sonic as the only playable character but guess what? The game is still mediocre anyway even with Sonic as the only playable character. So I don't see how getting rid of everyone and making a Sonic 1 rehash over and over is going to save the franchise and then the series starts to get boring and people will start begging for Sega to try new things.

Anyway, the article is great read and I agree about all the stupid complaints. =D We should help spread this everywhere.

Edited by sonfan1984, 25 September 2011 - 01:42 AM.


#4 T-Man

T-Man

    and into the eyes of a jackal I say kaaaaa-BOOM

  • TSS Member
  • 986 Posts:
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:T-Land
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:21 AM

So when is this going to be posted on your blog? It's a really good read!


I actually posted it there first. I wasn't going to post it here, but Dissident said I should and I was like "Meh, why not?"

Oh, and thanks =D

#5 Discoid

Discoid
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:26 AM

Told you people would like it. ;D

#6 Komodin

Komodin

    TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator

  • TSS Member
  • 2134 Posts:
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bridgeport, CT
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:34 AM

Wow, I must say, this is quite an awesome, interesting and well-researched essay! Well done, mon! Posted Image

#7 Dark Qiviut

Dark Qiviut

    Proudly controversial.

  • TSS Member
  • 973 Posts:
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:36 AM

lol, I remember that IGN article about SEGA killing off every Sonic character in the series besides Sonic and Dr Eggman. I see fans of those characters throwing huge fits of rage cause their favorite character got removed rather then really helping the series. I remember when Sonic and the Secret Rings got praised for having Sonic as the only playable character but guess what? The game is still mediocre anyway even with Sonic as the only playable character. So I don't see how getting rid of everyone and making a Sonic 1 rehash over and over is going to save the franchise.

I remember the article, too. It was so insipid that I still wonder why it even passed the editing stage. It was horrid journalism at its finest, and I usually like IGN.

That said, very good read, T-Man. Great dissecting of the poorly though-out, illogical, faulty, lazy opinions amongst the pro-2D/3D Sonic-bashers (and Hilary Goldstein's horridly written review). Posted Image Great usage of research, as what Komodin said, and I like how you delved into why their logic sucks. Great work! Posted Image

Edited by Dark Qiviut, 25 September 2011 - 02:10 AM.


#8 the blu blur

the blu blur

    I like mes mine time stonezz! :3

  • TSS Member
  • 340 Posts:
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:40 AM



For another, does anyone remember this game?

If you ever owned a Nintendo 64, you probably do. It was an amazing rail shooter with tons of replay value, graphics that were stunning (...at the time), and it came with a then-revolutionary rumble pak that actually allowed you to feel the action in your hands! It actually holds up well today...which is why they should have added a LOT more when remaking it for 3DS. But that's something I've already ranted about before. So what does this have to do with Sonic, you may be thinking. Well, I'm getting to that. Anyway, Star Fox 64 was followed up by this game here:

It was initially developed as an original IP by Rareware, famous for making the Donkey Kong Country series for SNES, the Banjo-Kazooie games and Conker's Bad Fur Day for N64, and numerous crappy shovelware games for the Kinect, and it would have been named Dinosaur Planet after the area where most of the game takes place. But Nintendo, realizing that people probably wanted a Star Fox game for the new GameCube console, looked at this game, said "Forget it," handed Rare a big wad of cash, and said "Put Star Fox in this game. Trust us, people will love it." Rare then said "Durr, okay!" and boom, Star Fox Adventures. Needless to say, there are mixed opinions on this game. Some hate it because it's not a real Star Fox game and some appreciate it for what it is, as it is a genuinely good adventure game if you can look past the moronic decisions surrounding it. I probably don't need to say that I'm part of the latter group, and I really think that Adventures wouldn't catch as much flack as it does if it were the only oddball in an otherwise consistent franchise. Unfortunately, it would exemplify the problem that would partially lead to the downfall of the series.

So, now I'm going to ask you if you remember either of these games:



Probably not.

Why?

Because they sucked.

To Assault's credit, it did feature rail shooting levels in the Arwing reminiscent of 64, and they were the best of what the game had to offer, but even they were slow-paced and dull compared to the levels of 64 and they took a back seat to ground combat levels that dropped you in an area, said "here's a gun, hunt down X amount of targets", were unrefined and controlled poorly, and just weren't much fun. And even the most diehard of Star Fox fans won't defend Command, which is pretty much what happens when you take the words "bland", "boring", and "frustrating" and give them physical form as a real-time-strategy game - yes, a real-time-strategy game - for DS. Star Fox didn't just go downhill; it losts its identity. Not even Sonic did that. And although Star Fox has fewer games, that just makes the fact that it has a smaller ratio of good games to bad ones that much more inexcusable. If you don't count Adventures, there are only two: 64 and the original Star Fox, and the original has aged so poorly it's almost laughable. I mean, look at this:

Does it look like anything you would see yourself playing now? Compare to Sonic's Genesis titles, which are absolutely fantastic even today.

So, if people are saying that Sonic should die...why does everyone want a new Star Fox game? Is it because we know Nintendo can do better? But if that's the case, then why can't SEGA do better as well? (Not that they haven't done better. I mean, really, Sonic Colors.) Is it because most of us only think of Star Fox 64 when we think of that series? Then why do we think of Sonic 06 when we think of Sonic rather than the Genesis and Dreamcast games? And Sonic Colors?

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a new Star Fox game. No, not at all. In fact, if it were good, I'd love it just as much as you would. But let's not be hypocrites here: if Sonic is to die because of a decline in quality, so should every other series that ever saw such a decline. Even if it's made by Nintendo.



This. So this! Talking about hypocriticism at a very shameful low. If one series gets the benefit of the doubt as it recovers than so should Sonic. It shouldn't get any less due to one gamer's bitterness.

I honestly will never understand why the series still gets so much strife as if Sega killed their dog or something. I honestly feel like putting this quote in my signiture, but its quite long so... Posted Image

Edited by the blu blur, 25 September 2011 - 01:40 AM.


#9 Aqua

Aqua
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The World That Never Was
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:41 AM

Wow,Took a lot of effort to read but after reading it I must say it was worth it.Posted Image It's a interesting, informative, creative, Great read and I can definitely see the effort put into it. Good job man!Posted Image

#10 Metal Gear (sting)RAY

Metal Gear (sting)RAY
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:01 AM

I gave you the benefit of the doubt enough to read all the way through, but honestly, I feel I should have stopped as soon as the word "bias" came up. Any time this word comes up in a discussion about this series, the argument immediately falls into strawman mode. Don't get me wrong, I agree that those criticisms are annoyingly shortsighted, but there are better ways of getting that across than this accusation that IGN's consistently negative opinions are part of an agenda and not simple opinion, poorly communicated or not.

On top of that, a fair share of this comes more from opinion than analysis, so it's really just as much your bias as it is theirs. Not everyone's going to agree that Advance or Rush are good or that Espio or Silver suck, but if they did, would their thoughts be as biased as IGN's because it goes against your argument?

I respect the effort you put into writing this, but you can't just just counter what other people believe by saying what you believe and holding that as evidence. You want to write like Cracked? You can't just link to the articles you're arguing against, you have to find the hard facts and lay them down harder. This is hard to do, especially with a subjective phenomenon like video games, but look into the history and instances where journalists look into faults on false pretenses. I can't find it, but I remember reading a Kotaku post two or three months ago that implicitly blamed the introduction of Tails in Sonic 2 for the oversized cast today.

So you have a good outline here, but try to stray away from countering opinions with other opinions.

#11 Tornado

Tornado
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lyons, New York
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:08 AM

In addition to what SuperStingray said, I will note something in response to #4: Hindsight is an amazing thing.

#12 Soniman

Soniman
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Philadelphia
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:13 AM

I love you and I love this article, though I have some gripes.

1: Im irked how you mention the Chaotix in the list of bad characters, even thought they originally in an old 16-bit game and can be considered "classic characters", yet you fail to mention train wrecks like Shadow. Personal gripe, but still.

2: YOUR WRONG STARFOX ON THE SNES WAS EPICALLY AWESOME DESPITE THE GRAPHICS!!! RAGE!!!!!!!.

Edited by Soniman032-, 25 September 2011 - 02:15 AM.


#13 ChaosSupremeSonîc

ChaosSupremeSonîc

    The Ever Learning Contrarian

  • TSS Member
  • 8320 Posts:
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:15 AM

Well if we're going to start with critiquing things now, I have to say your weakest point would be in the "No one likes the new Sonic games, so the series should die!" at least right when you bring up Starfox as an example with Assault and Command and how the series has aged. I wouldn't say no one remembers them, because quite frankly it wouldn't be easy to tell if you couldn't bring up any evidence on your end to show your point. That's where you really start placing your own bias, and you need to be even harder than that regarding the facts.


In addition to what SuperStingray said, I will note something in response to #4: Hindsight is an amazing thing.

Although, to be fair, he did kinda point out the flawed logic behind Gamesradar's "Fast things and 3D just don't work" part by using racing games that do just that and don't receive the same kind of criticism.

And I find the hindsight arguable regarding what people thought was actually the problem, but that depends on whether I'm talking about the same thing you are about it, and I don't think I am.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic, 25 September 2011 - 02:18 AM.


#14 Johnny Boy

Johnny Boy
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Hoenn Region
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:20 AM

This article is way to mind blowingly epic for words. You just completely dissected and obliterated every dumb complaint against this franchise. T Man, I salute you.

#15 Black Mamba

Black Mamba
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:whore island
  • Country:Bermuda

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:20 AM

damn son, pretty good read.



and here i was about to accuse you of tl;dr.

#16 T-Man

T-Man

    and into the eyes of a jackal I say kaaaaa-BOOM

  • TSS Member
  • 986 Posts:
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:T-Land
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:31 AM

I gave you the benefit of the doubt enough to read all the way through, but honestly, I feel I should have stopped as soon as the word "bias" came up. Any time this word comes up in a discussion about this series, the argument immediately falls into strawman mode. Don't get me wrong, I agree that those criticisms are annoyingly shortsighted, but there are better ways of getting that across than this accusation that IGN's consistently negative opinions are part of an agenda and not simple opinion, poorly communicated or not.

On top of that, a fair share of this comes more from opinion than analysis, so it's really just as much your bias as it is theirs. Not everyone's going to agree that Advance or Rush are good or that Espio or Silver suck, but if they did, would their thoughts be as biased as IGN's because it goes against your argument?


The purpose of this article wasn't so much as to be 100% objective so much as to attack statements I saw as illegitimate, unfair or uninformed. Honestly, I think an article like this would be at least somewhat opinionated by its very nature. Regarding that second point, of course not everyone's going to agree, but on the subject of Advance and Rush, the critics did seem to agree. I don't necessarily hate Espio and Silver myself. I'm just saying that they're kind of unnecessary, and I can understand why having so many such characters would get annoying to some.

I love you and I love this article, though I have some gripes.

1: Im irked how you mention the Chaotix in the list of bad characters, even thought they originally in an old 16-bit game and can be considered "classic characters", yet you fail to mention train wrecks like Shadow. Personal gripe, but still.


Yeah, but no one really knew who the Chaotix was until Heroes XP And like I said, I wasn't necessarily saying they were bad characters. Just that we don't need them and quite a few of us think they're bad.

AND I LIKE SHADOW. RAEG!!!!!!!!!

Well if we're going to start with critiquing things now, I have to say your weakest point would be in the "No one likes the new Sonic games, so the series should die!" at least right when you bring up Starfox as an example with Assault and Command. I wouldn't say no one remembers them, because quite frankly it wouldn't be easy to tell if you couldn't bring up any evidence on your end to show your point. That's where you really start placing your own bias, and you need to be even harder than that regarding the facts.


I guess you're right about this XP That part where I said "no one remembers those games" was moreso me trying to be funny, but I'll keep this in mind.

Edited by T-Man, 25 September 2011 - 02:46 AM.


#17 Xenos

Xenos
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vector's Headphones, constantly playing The Almighty.
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:59 AM

Regarding extra characters;

I don't see why having them around is so big of a problem, all the dislike of the other characters stems from the fact they were brought up the wrong way, Shadow started off good, but ended in a trainwreck.

The Chaotix honestly didn't get a good chance, they debuted officially in a game barely known by many outside the fanbase, and come back as Modern Characters in a game where nothing can be taken seriously at all.

The characters being unnecessary isn't a completely valid point if you consider the Mario Series. With so many recurring characters, you'd think people hated them, but no, they don't.

That's either because they are only in Spin-Off's or they are just likable. Nobody wants Sonic's (Shitty) Friends around because they can be generally annoying, to the voices, the Gameplay, etc. All Sonic Team need to do is just make them better in general as characters.

I mean, the voices are fine enough from what I've heard. (Amy, please fix Amy and make Vector sound less...well..like his 4Kids Actor.) Making some playable will be fine as long as they don't suck. So what's the problem?


What annoys the hell out of me is when critics and fans keep hating on them just by them appearing in the damn game. Seriously, just look at Shadow's reveal and see how much butthurt happens from reactions of people. I really can't wait for when they reveal the next rival character in Generations, that should be GOLD.

And I honestly think critics will be so condescending on Generations because of the massive amount of characters in the HD Version of the game, I can see a Con from IGN reading: "- Too many characters/friends" And if that happens, I'll say, I told you so.

I mean, it's okay if you personally dislike the characters and don't want to see them again, I just don't want some stupidity about being skeptical over a game (Generations) if a few characters show up. (Shadow, Chaotix, Amy, ETC.)

#18 sonfan1984

sonfan1984

    Member

  • TSS Member
  • 2965 Posts:
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pennsylvania
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:38 AM

Regarding extra characters;
What annoys the hell out of me is when critics and fans keep hating on them just by them appearing in the damn game. Seriously, just look at Shadow's reveal and see how much butthurt happens from reactions of people. I really can't wait for when they reveal the next rival character in Generations, that should be GOLD.

And I honestly think critics will be so condescending on Generations because of the massive amount of characters in the HD Version of the game, I can see a Con from IGN reading: "- Too many characters/friends" And if that happens, I'll say, I told you so.

I mean, it's okay if you personally dislike the characters and don't want to see them again, I just don't want some stupidity about being skeptical over a game (Generations) if a few characters show up. (Shadow, Chaotix, Amy, ETC.)


Yeah I know. I think some people are being too naive if they think that Sonic friends won't show up in Generations. I don't see why they want Sonic to be a complete loner, I think that's boring. Sonic friends don't bother me and I don't find Sonic's friends appearing in the game to be entirely game breaking either if they're showing up in the game to play their part in the story. I'm excited that they're appearing in the main series again especially since Sega hired new voice actors and better writers so hopefully they make the characters more likeable.

#19 Lennox

Lennox
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Entwined with design.
  • Country:Philippines

Posted 25 September 2011 - 05:33 AM

By the way, from bro to bro, you sir, deserve something.

Posted Image

This makes me wanna start a topic of my own!



#20 The Blue

The Blue
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oh my god I have fingers.
  • Country:Canada

Posted 25 September 2011 - 05:50 AM

Was a great and enjoyable read. I agreed with 95% of it.

But Star Fox Assault... Sucked?

Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users