1603 replies to this topic

[KrazyBean]

I hope this topic doesn't get locked a 2nd time...

[Inferno]

I hope this topic doesn't get locked a 2nd time...

Actually it'd be the third. It was already locked 2 times. Doesn't seem that heated anyway..

[Carbo]

I hope this topic doesn't get locked a 2nd time...

Third.

And by the way, your post isn't exactly acting in it's favor.

[Remz]

3rd time will be the last time.

[Diogenes]

Oh no, I'm forced to go in a straight line on a narrow section that lasts for less than 2 seconds where I would go in a straight line anyway. RUINED FOREVER [/sarcasm]

But it's not just that one place. This kind of stuff is everywhere in Unleashed-styled gameplay. Narrow hallways fenced in by invisible walls. 2D sections with a 3D camera so you don't realize it's 2D. Sections that lock your controls so "up" always moves you forward along the path you're in, regardless of what direction the camera's facing. Limiting you and pretending its not is at the core of Unleashed styled gameplay, and that's one of the big reasons why I don't like it.

[Blue Blood]

But it's not just that one place. This kind of stuff is everywhere in Unleashed-styled gameplay. Narrow hallways fenced in by invisible walls. 2D sections with a 3D camera so you don't realize it's 2D. Sections that lock your controls so "up" always moves you forward along the path you're in, regardless of what direction the camera's facing. Limiting you and pretending its not is at the core of Unleashed styled gameplay, and that's one of the big reasons why I don't like it.

And that's why the camera isn't manually controllable in Generations. It's like the double jump in Colours- instead of fixing the problem, they found some way to hide it. It's really lame. At one point I was under the breakable bridge in M.GHZ and had the camera facing away from the water (so it was facing directly to a wall). The controls buggered up and it was really hard to figure out what I was doing. Thankfully the path was just an empty corridor of nothingness so I knew I wasn't in danger...

And otherwise, I'd definitely agree that it feels like you're locked in narrow paths. It's all well and good that you can't literally run EVERYWHERE (it becomes a nightmare, and counter-productive to gameplay) but everything needs to be opened up an awful lot.

Edited by Blue Blood, 24 October 2011 - 04:37 PM.

[Crazizzle]

It feels as if Sonic Team overcompensated for the problems of the Adventure series in Unleashed, and they are just now opening it up. I'd imagine they'll open it up and get more ambitious with later games, like they did in Generations...but moreso. It's a developmental process. I'd satisfied with the product as of now, but it should be refined and improved upon.

The controls have improved, and if there's no negative feedback on open levels being hard to control...with criticism of "hallway" design...the next game will be more open and less scripted. Sonic Team did improve the Unleashed gameplay already, it's not hard to see them working on it further.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

But it's not just that one place. This kind of stuff is everywhere in Unleashed-styled gameplay. Narrow hallways fenced in by invisible walls. 2D sections with a 3D camera so you don't realize it's 2D. Sections that lock your controls so "up" always moves you forward along the path you're in, regardless of what direction the camera's facing. Limiting you and pretending its not is at the core of Unleashed styled gameplay, and that's one of the big reasons why I don't like it.

Well, whilst I never played Unleashed for the 360 or PS3, I've rarely found instances like this in the Generations demo. I found a couple of instances, but these are the kinds of places that one would just naturally speed past anyway and whilst I do actually agree with you and MarcelloF that these kinds of things are unnecessary to an extent, I still don't see a sense complaining about it.

The current kind of level design is designed along the consensus that the player will keep on moving and keep trying to retain and sustain their movement (at least that's how I view it). Whenever I slow down to look at details such as these, I take whatever I experience with a grain of salt because I know that I'm not playing it the way it's supposed to be played. If I come across some random invisible wall whilst wandering around, 90% of the time I find it easy to ignore, because I don't spend my time "wandering around" in these kinds of Sonic games. I spend my time trying to retain my speed as best as I can, as well as trying to find different ways to tackle the level through the different routes to make it interesting. And of course, trying to do a speed run every now and again.

However, of course this is just me and how I feel one would go about playing a Modern Sonic game. Though really, everyone has their own different ways on how they feel a Modern Sonic game should be played and approached.

I will also say that I agree with Blue Blood on the non controllable camera issue. That's just rather annoying and quite frankly unnecessary. If anything, they could at least have a button that attempts to recentre the camera back behind Sonic again.

Edited by SiLeNtDo0m, 24 October 2011 - 03:32 PM.

[Neon]

Sonic 4 Easter Egg found in Generations demo!

Edited by Neon, 24 October 2011 - 06:59 PM.

[Vanish]

Sonic 4 Easter Egg found in Generations demo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDJiwn0n4II

Doesn't the second tune, play at the beginning too?

[KrazyBean]

Sonic 4 Easter Egg found in Generations demo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDJiwn0n4II

OH NOES!!! SPIDER SONIC IS BACK!!!

Fortunately, it's temporary.

[AceZX]

I was just wondering does anyone know when the demo will be avaliable for xbox live silver members

[Eternal Xtreme]

Sonic 4 Easter Egg found in Generations demo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDJiwn0n4II

AWESOME! That was better than the 1st time I screamed Thundercats this year.

[Phos]

You wont know this until you play though...or see a game video that takes ever possible alt route...you can speculate all you want, but you are not going to know shit concrete until we see viable evidence and from what we see so far is plenty of alt routes.


Also not every level was like Casino Night Zone....most of the alternate pathways in the classics were simply a track with some platfroms/obstacles in it. Your acting like the Classics were some kind of sandbox game. They gave you some freedom, but jeez the gensis games weren't Protoype or GTA in a choice where you wanted to go. If that's the case we would have a faster paced Zelda game with some shit to jump on and dodge, but only 1 overworld.

I don't know what you're expecting me to find in the final game

This really gets me, honestly what do you want then? Because when used to its full potential (Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill), the levels are non-linear to a point where it's acceptable for a series like Sonic. A sandbox style game is terrible idea (not saying you support it) because Sonic needs direction, with a clear goal, with a clear path. If I zoomed out on SS or SSH they would not look like timelines at all, because I recall many times where the levels twist and turn.

And what of the 2D areas? From what of ive see there, the're pleny plenty of ways to go about completing them. And, again, add more depth to the Unleashed formula than people let on.

Seaside hill... That level like it has its own set of problems. So many poor camera angles and such tight areas. And then the tab I had the video open in crashed for some reason.

Sky Sanctuary doesn't turn that much, but just throwing turns into it wouldn't really make a difference. The video editor comment is a bit of a hyperbole, but it's not like there's no grounds for comparison. A better comparison might be to those 3D models of proteins. They looks like some kind of ribbon in a void, at least if you strip out the 3D background.

Fair enough. Its just, the Mega Drive games didn't have any of this. Where did the notion that they had "exploration" come from? As complex as the level designs are, to me, they just look like a different number of ways you can get to the end of the stage. Where did the idea that in order for a 3D Sonic game to be good, it must have open spaces that you can look around. Sure its nice, but is it needed?

I would actually say that they do. The areas are 2 dimensional left to right fair, but they have a more logical construction than levels in most similar games. You can tell how high or low you are in a level, and it actually matters because there's stuff there that you could reach.

I mean, can you give me an example of a game (any game, doesn't have to be Sonic) which did what you wanted it to do?


So? There is no reason why such a level design ethos is not fun to play. It doesn't need to do all this crap with expansive levels with undiscrete routes where you can literally explore to find routes. Firstly, the stage itself would be impractically large (then there is the fact that there are 9-12 of them and they all get steadily longer/more difficult) and secondly, its much harder to spread level design across an area that large. The beauty with the current design mentality of discrete routes and parallel paths, is that you can afford a greater density of actual level design within a given space (though it probably isn't to the best it can be.

Again, can you please give me an example of any game which does what you want. It will give me a better understanding of what you're talking about.
If its too off-topic PM me.

The closest I can give you is Speed Highway's "At Dawn". It's short, but it illustrates what I'm driving at. It's also the part absent from Generations.

Oh no, I'm forced to go in a straight line on a narrow section that lasts for less than 2 seconds where I would go in a straight line anyway. RUINED FOREVER [/sarcasm]

I'm all up for criticism, but sometimes it just seems like people are just finding needless reasons to complain. Ones that really don't detract much from the game as a whole and fixing them won't make the game that much better

Oh no, we're in bitching hell again.

It's locking the players control for no reason.

[Ryusuke]

I was just wondering does anyone know when the demo will be avaliable for xbox live silver members

It should be tomorrow or Wednesday...

[Stocking Anarchy]

The closest I can give you is Speed Highway's "At Dawn". It's short, but it illustrates what I'm driving at. It's also the part absent from Generations.

How do you know wether or not it's absent?

[Scar]

I would actually say that they do. The areas are 2 dimensional left to right fair, but they have a more logical construction than levels in most similar games. You can tell how high or low you are in a level, and it actually matters because there's stuff there that you could reach.

I know what the level design offers is a great deal more than what other games of the time offered. I've seen the level maps. However, it doesn't offer exploration. There are multitude of discrete routes that you can take, which intersect at various intervals. Sure there are special stage rings hidden in the stages, but they barely count as exploration. Certainly, exploration is not the focus of the level design.

A 2D game that offered exploration would be something like Symphony Of The Night or most Metroid games. These are completely different from Sonic games and are trying to acheive different things.

You've still failed to explain to me, what the problem with Sky Sanctuary's level design is. I know that you think its a series of roads connected together over a large void. What exactly is wrong with that. It certainly looks entertaining and challenging in its own right. Does the level design need to accomodate 'exploration' and uniformly distributed areas, rather than paths/routes/roads to be good? If so, why?

The closest I can give you is Speed Highway's "At Dawn". It's short, but it illustrates what I'm driving at. It's also the part absent from Generations.

Which is the most boring and unentertaining part of the stage in my humblest opinion. It is painfully obvious that, that section of the stage was designed for Knux's emerald hunts. There is very little by the way of actual level design. It is just a series of buildings that you can sometimes run on by going quickly enough. The major problem with it, is the fact that you can avoid all the challenge and fun of jumping across the rooftops by just running along the floor, which is ultimately much easier and faster. The rest of the stage is much better designed. Its much more fluid and generally entertaining.

Anyway, you cannot be sure that its actually missing from the stage until you've seen it. So far we've seen little more than a few seconds of the stage.

Edited by Scar, 25 October 2011 - 08:34 AM.

[Ryusuke]

Finally got to play the demo. Wow, Modern Sonic feels a lot tighter than Colors ever did. Controls like a dream. Took a bit of getting used to, but I had a lot of fun playing as him. I wish there were more opportunities to do the Spin Dash Drift. I loved that move. It kinda felt like Classic Sonic's jumping felt more closer to how it was in the original games, but I didn't play him as much as Modern.

Edited by Ryusuke, 25 October 2011 - 02:23 PM.

[mclaren6]

Finally got to play the demo. Wow, Modern Sonic feels a lot tighter than Colors ever did. Controls like a dream. Took a bit of getting used to, but I had a lot of fun playing as him. I wish there were more opportunities to do the Spin Dash Drift. I loved that move. It kinda felt like Classic Sonic's jumping felt more closer to how it was in the original games, but I didn't play him as much as Modern.

There's loads of opportunities to do the Drift!

Look:

[Revlis1]

Has anyone been able to download the PS3 demo?

I've been trying to, but it doesn't seem to show up on the game store.