Modern/Unleashed/Colours gameplay AS OF GENERATIONS.

[Chaos Warp]

Yes, I know we have had this topic a million and one times. But in Generations (except Green Hill and the 3d sections of Chemical plant), the Modern gameplay has taken a huge step in a different ,platforming-filled goodness direction.

So this topic is about the Modern gameplay AS OF GENERATIONS. What you think of it, it's pros and cons, and how it could be improved.

Myself, I am very happy with it right now (as of Generations, it is my favorite 3d Sonic gameplay, and I enjoy it more then Adventure and Unleashed) and would be perfectly happy (and enjoy it very much) if it stayed this way. But improvements can still be made. Here's my shortlist.

EDIT: After thinking a little more, I've revised my shortlist.

-Make the boost more like a "boost mode". Let me explain. You collect an item that fills up one slot on what looks like an Unwiished boost gauge. You tap the X button and Sonic breaks into his boost. You have to keep the stick held forward to keep it going, because the second you slow down, Sonic loses it. You can not activate it unless you are already in a arms-behind run. Each boost capsule fills one slot on the Unwiished-like boost gauge. Boosting makes turning very stiff, and if you jump, that will end the boost. You can drift however. This encourages you to not just use it when you have enough space to use it, but use it where you will get the most use out of it. This also encourages use of the next thing.

-Replace slide with rolling/spindash. This is one of Sonic's classic moves, and I miss it very much. If you have no boost (which can happen often with the boost-capsule system) you could use this to speed up. You could only spindash (you can roll at any speed) when you were not in an arms-behind run (at which time you could use the boost). The roll can be used to gain momentum on slopes when you have no boost/want to save it. The slide is context-sensitive, as in you normally roll, but when you come to something to slide under (and the icon appears), you slide under it.

-Make the jump keep your momentum like the classics. Not as powerful as the classics in which you could accelerate while jumping, but powerful enough so when you would currently lose some momentum while jumping, instead you would transfer your running momentum through your jump and not lose it.

-Add faster-paced sections that are not just straight lines, and momentum platforming. I will use Rooftop Run as an example. Imagine jumping from rooftop to rooftop, at near max speed (not boost speed), with a jump that keeps your momentum. You see a slope and roll (as you have no boost energy at this point), and jump off an incline with your built up speed, and land on a new path. You hop up three short steps, collect boost energy, enter a quickstep section, and as seeing it would seem appropriate to do this right now, you engage boost mode. I want more speed and momentum-based platforming like that.

-Remove homing-attack chains, and make badniks pose a little more of a threat. See Sonic Adventure 1.

-Have 3d water sections. Having water be a deathpit in 3d felt like a massive cock-block, and done right, 3d water sections could be quite fun.

-Bring back the balancing-momentum aspect of grinding. See SA2, but keep the LB/RB rail switching. While on rails, the boost button would be the crouch button.

As for Sonic, that's my shortlist.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Chaos Warp

[KHCast]

Yes, I know we have had this topic a million and one times.

Your thoughts? Discuss!

Then why did you post another topic if you already knew we had one?

Although i agree it has taken a huge step forward.

[NiGHTS]

I liked Generation Modern gameplay, CEPT the drifting, i think that went down compared to colors.

[MrROBOTO1988]

Then why did you post another topic if you already knew we had one?

Although i agree it has taken a huge step forward.

This is a different enough take on the topic in my opinion. I would personally hate to have to weed through an already existent topic just to get to the Generations specific discussion.

I also think Generations took the 3D gameplay to a new level of great. I found myself constantly noticing sections that involved actual platforming in 3D and where using the boost would do nothing for you or it would kill you. I might be pointing a gun in my face with this next comment, but I really want to know what some modern-gameplay-haters have to say about the 3D sections in this game. I've personally always enjoyed it, but I definitely think Generations really upped the ante.

[Chaos Warp]

Then why did you post another topic if you already knew we had one?

Although i agree it has taken a huge step forward.

Because opinions may be far different now, considering how far it's come. I know mine was. But that's off topic.

[Ferno]

I thought Generations had the best drift of all time.

Of all time.

[/kanye]

[XenotropiXavier]

Generations DOES have the best drift. Its the spindash. You asked for it and there it is. Why replace the slide with the spindash as well? That'd be redundant.

[Indigo Rush]

There's always room for improvement, but this is certainly the best so far, especially in terms of level design, by jove!

[Eternal EX]

The drifting. It's the only problem I have with generations. Like one minute it works perfect and then the next your drifting to hard on turns. Really? How did Sonic do that. Except that and Super sonic (lets not get started) I'm kool with how sonic is now.

[XenotropiXavier]

All this drift hate is truly jarring >.>;

[azoo]

Everything about everything regarding modern Sonic is just about perfect, with very minor niggles.

Sonic moves tightly, and in a manner similar to Adventure (tightness and controllability) and Unleashed (the smooth turning axis). Jumping loses some momentum when moving through the air, but not enough to be of any harm to gameplay, and it's very tight and responsive as well.

The homing attack is spot on perfect; exactly the way it should be. The jump dash, however, is just a tad jerky, since it lowers your momentum a whole lot whenever it's finished flying it's main distance; although that is okay because I suppose that is there to seperate the differences between it and the air boost. On note of the boost, it's really nicely tuned, as it gains and loses momentum ever-so-slightly on slopes, as well as it is more fair since it consumes energy quicker, especially whilst in the air.

Sliding should just be rolling (cannot say this enough) but honestly it's still cool to have I suppose. Stomping is just as great and useful as ever though, and I kinda wish at times that classic Sonic had it in his arsenal.

SPIN DASH DRIFTING (bolded and capitalized since it seems many people dislike it here so hear my plea) is awesometastic and extremely satisfying, all the haters to the left. At times it does seem to turn a bit too soon around corners though, but that's where the satisfying bit of slowing, mastering and snaking your drift comes in. Quick stepping.. comes kind of useless in this game for most of the time, minus a few bits of layout in the later stages. Still nice to have on the occasion of dodging things, though.

..and tricks are quite cool and really fun to pull off.

I think I've all that could be said about the gameplay. Compared to Unleashed, it's a lot less slippery and well placed when it comes to button-mapping, and everything just feels well tuned. Also compared to Colors, lol.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Azukara

[Soniman]

Unleashed: Overly Boost happy, resrictive 3D, platforming is minimal (2D and 3D).

Colors: Worse 3D sections, but overall better level design and less emphasis on boost.

Generations: Seaside Hill

Gentlemen, we can only go up from here.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Soniman032-

[Octarine]

I'm definitely part of the camp that feels like Generations' drift is a big improvement. Unleashed's drift was hit or miss for me and Colours' drift sections were easily the worst thing about it (not only was the drift worse than in Unleashed, but the decision to segregate it from normal gameplay was awful), but in Generations it feels natural and generally does what I want it to. I've messed it up and faceplanted into a wall once or twice, but I think that was more my fault than the game's. Also, from an aesthetic standpoint, turning it into a ball-form move was genius, and definitely something Modern Sonic was missing.

The improvements to low-speed control are probably my favourite change, though. I'd be terrified to try and play Crisis City with Unleashed's Sonic, lemme tell ya.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Octarine

[Voyant]

All future Sonic games need to be like Seaside Hill and Sky Sanctuary...Speed based stages need to be intense and memorable as speed highway.

Best way to do this is to have levels like Sonic 3&K

Make Act 1 have a lot more Platforming than speed....and Act 2 be more speed based than platforming.

Next game should focus now on a 3-4 years development time. Make 10 to 12 levles 2 acts each 3 mission levels each main level with decent length almost as long as main levels. I want a pure 3D Modern Game...Its about time now....

No more 2D...They have proven themselves capable of making very good 3D level design. (Not saying that if the next game did have 2D section I would bash the game, but still)

Game should also be in 60 frames normally I dont care about this, but it would be nice.

***

Controls are spot onto the point of being almost perfect. They are great at low speeds and at highsppeds they are not twitchy as fuck. Adventures control like ass compared to this personally I went back and played SA2 just recently and I honestly can't believe I let some of the control issues fly.

Edited November 3, 2011 by V0YANT

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Generations does what the previous two titles failed or lacked in terms of actual 3D. As soon as you get to Sky Sanctuary, the levels are so much more open than I even thought they would attempt to make. Sonic Team clearly heard us when we asked for things to be more open and not like hallways. City Escape by itself is so open it's unbelievable. Although there are moments when the 2D and 3D tend to dwindle down, but still the way they actually accomplished it is amazing.

The one complain I have at the moment would be the Camera. I noticed that the right analog stick wasn't used for anything, and they could've damn well used it for Camera control as that could help whenever you're trying to backtrack.

I think they might actually have a good blend with the Adventure's sense of openness and Unleashed's sense of speed...now if only we can get them to incorporate the Classic's sense of physics. But I'm pleased so far. Next thing you know, they'll give us the other characters to play as (hopefully OPTIONAL!).

I'm more concerned with how they'll try to top this, or make something better for the next game. But this might actually keep us full for a while.

Edited November 3, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Big Boss (legendsneverdie)]

I'm waiting on Dio's opinion on this. I'm genuinely intrigued as to what he thinks of the game

[Ferno]

The one complain I have at the moment would be the Camera. I noticed that the right analog stick wasn't used for anything, and they could've damn well used it for Camera control as that could help whenever you're trying to backtrack.

That was my main nitpick with this game. I loved stopping and looking around in Unleashed HD, just taking it all in. I can't really do that in Generations. I see something pretty, then I keep wailing away at the right analog stick to get a closer look, and nothing happens.

They had an excuse with Colors, but on the 360 and PS3, we've got an analog stick set aside for the camera, it's like Sonic Team forgot it was there.

[Voyant]

Lets not bring Dio in this please...plus he not even going to buy the game anytime soon...he refuses to support it.

****

Anyway I am rather indeed worried about the next game. Sonic Team going to have to majorly step it up to outshine the greatness they did with the level design in Modern.

They are going to have to do what Naughty Dog did with Uncharted and pull all the stops on "Uncharted 2".

The boost is also nice and balanced now...I think its time now where the boost need to work a bit like rolling...get some physics in there and allow some speed cap breakage going down slopes and slow down going up them. There was some of this in Generations but you really had to look for it.

Next game should make it more prevalent that way the player feels even more in control and it give a lot of level design options to exploit as well.

Edited November 3, 2011 by V0YANT

[Eternal EX]

I'm waiting on Dio's opinion on this. I'm genuinely intrigued as to what he thinks of the game

To my knowledge, he is skipping this game.

The improvements to low-speed control are probably my favourite change, though. I'd be terrified to try and play Crisis City with Unleashed's Sonic, lemme tell ya.

Eh it wouldn't be to bad really. Just put all the speed skills on the current sonic and you basically have the Unleashed sonic. It actually works out great. To bad the lava/fire tornado is a bitch at times and even takes out super sonic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't want to jinx them and encourage this if they don't think they're ready, but I honestly think they should attempt a few mainstay gimmicks for the next title so it can stay a cut above Generations. Kinda like how they did with the Wisps in Colors, but with a bit more longlasting, if not permanent until the end of the level or until you get hit like they've done with the shields in the Classics.

Either way, Sonic Team have some serious brainstorming for the next title.

[Voyant]

Either way, Sonic Team have some serious brainstorming for the next title.

This...so much.

I honestly think it be a good idea to do a bit of collective thinking..maybe get some new fresh people? they have a great engine now to work with as a base...all it needs is some tweaking and you got gold here with the possibilities that can be done with Modern Sonic.

I do however do not want ST to get so large of an nintendo influence that the next game starts feeling too much like Colors from a gamplay stand point. Something like Sonic's Shields is a good start or maybe Chaos Powers of some sort?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I do however do not want ST to get so large of an nintendo influence that the next game starts feeling too much like Colors from a gamplay stand point. Something like Sonic's Shields is a good start or maybe Chaos Powers of some sort?

My concern is more about hoping they don't end up fumbling like they did with ShTH and Sonic 06, this time completely unintentionally.

They make a game that is so well polished in the trailers, has a solid base that we've been familiar with, but for some reason it falls flat on its face in trying to wow us. Heck, I'm also a bit worried about another Colors, a game that's a breeze to play through and is fun for the moment, but falls into obscurity after you beat it. Generations averts that since it's such a milestone, but damn this just makes me worried.

EDIT: Also, I'm seriously going to want to punch the folks at Sonic Team the next time they decide not to give everyone a chance to get a Collector's Edition. That was just fucking bullshit. But now I'm just getting a bit off topic.

Edited November 3, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Stritix]

I'd prefer it if they come up with new graphics for the next game.

[EXshad]

I think Sonic Team has done an excellent job encompassing all of the elements that comprise Modern Sonic with this title, and have designed his levels to be just as well-balanced and well-tempered as those of his Classic counterpart, by implementing the "speed is a reward" philosophy by having a boost meter that drains much faster if used improperly and by having more open and expansive levels that punish carelessly boosting, rather than taking the careful time to traverse your environment.

Still, there's some work to be done. Here's my outline to improve the formula for future titles:

Edited November 3, 2011 by EXshad

[Chaos Warp]

Generations DOES have the best drift. Its the spindash. You asked for it and there it is. Why replace the slide with the spindash as well? That'd be redundant.

Because the SDD is just a more Sonic-y animation for the drift, and the spin-dash itself is something different all-together? Also, Spin-dash/Momentum rolling has been a signature part of Sonic's gameplay, and I I want it to make an appearance again?