2389 replies to this topic

[Tornado]

We spend a lot on Medicare/Medicaid and defense, and no one who cares for their political career is going to tackle those sectors anytime soon, so how does decreasing taxes for the rich mean the middle and lower classes aren't going to be picking up the slack at the risk of increasing our debt at an even faster rate?

Because most of the time when trickle down concepts are proposed (I say most because Romney is at least smart enough to know that he can't just slash taxes and leave it at that with things being the way that they are right now), the candidate trying them doesn't bother trying to make them revenue neutral. They just cut taxes.
Reagan himself didn't even bother, since the economic base was good enough at the time that the massive debt accumulation of his administration (both from cutting taxes and from the massive defense buildup that occurred concurrently with it) wasn't really a problem in and of itself (well... it was in the sense that massive debt accumulation is always bad and it arguably established a dangerous precedent, but no one really cared at the time because it was benign then).

Edited by Gilda, 01 August 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[Nepenthe]

Exactly; that's my issue. Real world application has shown that the effects of the cuts usually aren't neutralized, meaning the difference is going to have to be passed on to someone else and the debt will then increase as a natural consequence. I don't see how in the world this is helpful to most people in any capacity, which further makes the current GOP's lockstep denial of raising taxes on the basis of it hurts the "job creators" all the more frustrating to me.

[Tornado]

Just saw my first attack ad today. Obama basically just said that Romney was this guy:



And as such was unfit to lead the country. Seemed kind of lazy, but I suppose we'll see better in the coming months.



IT'S OFFICIALLY ELECTION SEASON, YO!

Edited by Gilda, 08 August 2012 - 12:23 AM.

[turbojet]

Oh, shit.

This is better than the Super Bowl.

[Mono]

Just saw my first attack ad today. Obama basically just said that Romney was this guy:



And as such was unfit to lead the country. Seemed kind of lazy, but I suppose we'll see better in the coming months.



IT'S OFFICIALLY ELECTION SEASON, YO!

Well he is RICH, comes from the EAST COAST, and has a HORSE IN THE OLYMPICS. What an ELITIST!

Oh wait I thought that attack was for the other guy.

Edited by Mono, 08 August 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[Patticus]

Why exactly won't Mitt release all of his tax returns for the last ten years, like all presidential candidates for the past few decades have? Why is he so cagey about something that didn't concern other candidates?

Is Harry Reid's assertion that he in fact hasn't paid taxes at all (which John McCain, who has allegedly seen them, didn't deny after being asked by Anderson Cooper) true??

[Tornado]

Harry Reid would lie about the Holocaust if it would further his political career. The man is one of the slimiest, greasiest pieces of shit in American politics today and is almost laughably corrupt (Ever seen the movie Casino with Robert DeNiro? That bad guy Senator from that movie was basically a direct pastiche of the things Reid was thought to have done during the 70's and 80's). Remember when turbojet talked about how the Gay rights issue would easily be something Democrats would distance themselves from once they were elected or if they failed to be elected? Reid is one of the people that gave that statement the precedent turbojet alluded to.


I wouldn't believe a single word that he says, and while it isn't really anyone's business how much money Romney made (which is likely the specific reason he won't release it), the commercial I saw that Obama made claimed that he paid 14% or somesuch; and I am more apt to believe an attack ad by Obama than a sincere statement by Reid.

Edited by Gilda, 08 August 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[The Kid]

Just saw my first attack ad today. Obama basically just said that Romney was this guy:



And as such was unfit to lead the country. Seemed kind of lazy, but I suppose we'll see better in the coming months.



IT'S OFFICIALLY ELECTION SEASON, YO!

I don't think I've ever really seen a "great" attack ad by Obama. That's about as much as I expect honestly.

[turbojet]

Harry Reid would lie about the Holocaust if it would further his political career. The man is one of the slimiest, greasiest pieces of shit in American politics today and is almost laughably corrupt (Ever seen the movie Casino with Robert DeNiro? That bad guy Senator from that movie was basically a direct pastiche of the things Reid was thought to have done during the 70's and 80's). Remember when turbojet talked about how the Gay rights issue would easily be something Democrats would distance themselves from once they were elected or if they failed to be elected? Reid is one of the people that gave that statement the precedent turbojet alluded to.


I wouldn't believe a single word that he says, and while it isn't really anyone's business how much money Romney made (which is likely the specific reason he won't release it), the commercial I saw that Obama made claimed that he paid 14% or somesuch; and I am more apt to believe an attack ad by Obama than a sincere statement by Reid.

As a hardcore Liberal, all I can say is a-mother fucking-men. He makes Joe Lieberman look like a saint. Fuck Harry Reid. The guy is the textbook asshole who the Republicans point to and I wonder just what is his agenda. The rat fucking asshole is the one piece of shit that is stopping up the flow in the toilet that is Congress. He, unlike most Democrats, don't compromise nor try to seek it, but when the tables are turned, he kisses so much ass that it might as well have reservations to pucker up. Not only that, he is really fucking corrupt. While Obama is mostly squeaky clean and has one hell of strategist when it comes to amicable politics, Reid has probably been involved with multiple scandals directly or indirectly. While he criticizes Romney for not releasing his tax returns, Harry Reid won't release his either. Why? The asshole is probably lining up money from lobbyists.

Reid's alliance is not with any party, but with whom lines his pockets.

[Mono]

Harry Reid is normally to me as a boring centrist, pro-life DINO, but he's been quite effective lately.

[Patticus]

I wouldn't believe a single word that he says, and while it isn't really anyone's business how much money Romney made (which is likely the specific reason he won't release it), the commercial I saw that Obama made claimed that he paid 14% or somesuch; and I am more apt to believe an attack ad by Obama than a sincere statement by Reid.

His tax returns are the American people's business if they prove that he has been corrupt or otherwise played the system (paying far less than a man of his worth should be paying), because nobody wants a corrupt president leading them. Such information getting out would of course damage him greatly, which would explain why he is so reluctant to show it, but there's a reason presidential candidates release that information, and it's not just for shits and giggles.

The longer he hides those tax returns, the more it looks like he has something nasty to hide, the more suspicious he looks. If Obama had to release his long form birth certificate to please a bunch of moronic far-right retards like Donald Trump and Sheriff Joe Arpaio (who is still kicking up a fuss for some reason), then Romney must surely have to release his tax returns to clear up the much more reasonable concerns and doubts about his finances?

[Tornado]

There are other reasons to want to avoid releasing your financial records besides hiding political corruption or that your money is tied up in a tax shelter. You're assuming that he has done something wrong because he hasn't released them and then because of that the American people deserve to see them immediately; all on the blind accusation of someone who is pretty much an outright criminal. For all we know, the reason he hasn't released them is because he made more money than god last decade and he needs to find a way to downplay that fact before telling everyone about it.

I'm not saying that it isn't suspect, but Romney is going to release them sooner or later (and if there is something bad in them he will release them sooner) and people like Harry Reid stating outright that it's because Romney is guilty of income tax evasion isn't any better than Obama not releasing his birth certificate and people using that to claim that he was Kenyan or whatever.

Edited by Gilda, 08 August 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[Patticus]

There are other reasons to want to avoid releasing your financial records besides hiding political corruption or that your money is tied up in a tax shelter. You're assuming that he has done something wrong because he hasn't released them and then because of that the American people deserve to see them immediately; all on the blind accusation of someone who is pretty much an outright criminal. For all we know, the reason he hasn't released them is because he made more money than god last decade and he needs to find a way to downplay that fact before telling everyone about it.

I'm assuming he may have done something wrong not based on Harry Reid's assertion (although that did prompt my post; but I had no idea that he was such an awful person), I'm assuming it because he's an extremely shifty person in general. I've come to just expect wrongdoing from people like him.

[Tornado]

That's fair enough.

[Gerk Marenghis Darkplace]

Can we have an explanation for 'people like him' please, Pat. It's not that I do or don't agree with what you said, more that it helps to understand your perspective. Because there's a lot of people I could compare to Mitt, but for different reasons and even in different political parties or careers.

[Tornado]

I'm guessing the blatantly opportunist way he carries himself (in particular the "hold any opinion so long as it isn't damaging" bit that causes him to change his stance on issues every time he is asked about them, including mid-sentence that one time).

[Patticus]

There's the lack of principles which Gilda has just mentioned, and there's also the whole Bain Capital kerfuffle he has just gone through (which doesn't cast him in a very good light no matter what the truth of it is), there's his Vietnam draft evasion with four deferments via that French Mormon missionary stint, and there's the fact that he is an elitist businessman who quite clearly has no concern for anybody other than himself, his family, his rich friends or those influential right-wing talking heads who so often dictate his every opinion (tl;dr - many of the richest people of this country).

He comes off as being distinctly untrustworthy and really quite shady. He is not the sort of man anybody should want to govern this (or any other) country.

[Joshua]

Romney spokesperson went on FOX yesterday to respond to Obama's attack ad. Her rebuttal? "To that point, you know, if people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care."



Conservatives - Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh in particular - are going absolutely nuts over this.

[Patticus]

Way to shoot yourself in the foot; endorsing a plan you want to repeal. Except she wasn't really endorsing it, she seemed too stupid frankly; she was just rambling on about absolutely nothing and happened upon a sequence of words that made it look like they were (or she was) endorsing "Romneycare." You'd think that, given his vast fortune, Mitt would at least hire competent campaign staff...

[SpikySprinter]

I can't believe the choice came down to pseudo-socialist creep Mitt Romney. He's still better than Obama the Destroyer, but not by much.