34 replies to this topic

[Nintendoga]

Time Travel's a bitch, ain't it?

Many sci-fi movies, television media, and video games feature the Time Traveling concept. Someone goes back in time to fix something, and then goes back to the future to see it fixed. Many people wish it could be this easy, but behind that fun entertaining concept, is a mindfuck of horrible consequences. I'm gonna point out some major flaws with Time Travel, so we can discuss it in the topic.

1. Novikov self-consistency principle

This theory says that anything a time traveler does in the past must have been part of history all along, and the time traveler can never do anything to prevent the trip back in time from happening, since this would represent an inconsistency

Sorry Sonic 06, but I'm gonna have to use you as an example here. In Shadow's Story, when Mephiles is first released, he has the form of shadow, and ask him if he remembers him back when Shadow first sealed him up 10 years ago. Well, if that's true, then that means that Shadow already sealed him, and the adventure already happened, which is impossible because the adventure was permanently erased at the end of the game.

Almost everyone does this, with no logical explanation as to why the thing is there if they already time traveled, yet haven't time traveled. Many people will argue with the fact that when someone goes back in time, they permanently change the course of history and make it so that whatever they do then, will always happen in the future. Which is still confusing as fuck, but brings me to my next example.

2. Alternate Timelines/ Multiple universes

In DBZ, Krillin asks Trunks why can't he just go back in time, kill the androids, and then the future would be saved. Trunks says he can't do that, cause not only would this timeline be un-affected, it would create another timeline. Yep, it's the "Alternate Timelines" cliche.



Basically, say if my friend died, and I traveled back in time to save him. When I go back to the future though, he's still dead. Not only have I failed in saving him in this timeline, I have subsequently created another time line in the universe. So I fucked up right? Well for example, let's say if I didn't go back in time in the first place, I would have died, because there was a bomb about to go off or something.

So I want to go back in time, and tell my past self not to go back in time, because it would be a waste of time. I do it and convince myself not to go back in time, which unfortunately means he will be killed by the bomb. Now I have fucked up twice, by creating yet a 3rd timeline. I can either stop here, and let the three timelines be, or go back in time again, stop myself from going back in time again, and save myself from dying, which would create another timeline. And again, and again.

I'm sure many of you Zelda fans already know about this, lol.

3. The Butterfly Effect

A person who time travels to the past, can change history, whether intended or not. Since I'm a lazy bastard and have not that much knowledge with this effect, I'm gonna just copy-past an example from the Wikipedia page.

The most well-known example of this theory is the 1985 film Back to the Future, in which the protagonist Marty McFly goes back in time and interferes with his parents' first romantic encounter, thus erasing his own existence (as well as that of his siblings). However, the effect only happens gradually, exemplified by a family photo in his possession: each of his siblings begins to disappear limb by limb, starting with the oldest and working down to him (the youngest of the three). This allows Marty to correct the error and restore the timeline, albeit with a few minor changes that are due to his interference. This effect has one contradiction - If a person, somehow, causes himself to not be born in the past, then he would not have been able to do the thing that caused him to not be born for he would have not existed, thus causing time to corrupt.

Point taken, NEXT.

4.The Merging Timelines theory.

This is the opposite of the Alternate Timelines theory, where instead of creating multiple timelines, the person actually becomes apart of that timeline.

This is more common when traveling dimensions though, so I'm gonna make this quick. Basically, if someone where to meet a copy of himself from another time/dimension, the two copies would merge, thus making that person the same person from both of their origins. It's confusing as to see which one is from originally from which, or if both have been apart of the same timeline or something. I'm getting confused just from writing this!

5. It will always happen because it is Destiny!

Going back to my example in number 2, say if I did save my friend, and he was alive back in our timeline. Now say if he gets shot a week later, so I go back in time and save him again. Everything's fine and dandy, that is until he gets run over by an ice-cream truck. So I go back in time, and save him again, and well you can see where this is heading. Basically he was meant to die, yet I keep disrupting the timeline and saving him. So now Destiny/Fate is pissed at me, and is now trying to kill him at every turn, until he stays dead.

It's kinda like Final Destination, only with Time Travel involved.

6. Oh, I just fucked myself over didn't I?

This one goes back to the butterfly effect. Marty goes back in time, and tries to change the past. This works for the most part, until he starts to disappear because he fucked up history, making him not exist anymore. It's a common trope that many movies use, and if you wanna find out how to fix it, watch Back to The Future.

7. Go back in time, fix it, Everything is okay now!

The most common trope used in every single form of media, and ironically the most unrealistic one.

Man goes back in time to save his dead Wife, succeeds, everything is now a-okay! That's it, no plot twist, no "monkey's paw" thing, just you going back in time and succeeding in what you strived to do in the first place. This is the one most people believe will happen with time travel. Oh how I wish this could happen, but as we all know, Time Travel's a bitch, ain't it?

(Please, feel free to add more Time Travel theories I may have missed)

Edited by Mike Dawson, 13 November 2011 - 06:42 PM.

[Alexander]

God.

I commend you for doing this. Time travel is fucking confusing, man.

[Flyboy Fox]

All I can say is, read "The Tao of Physics" if you want to understand subatomic physics and the idea of time travel. My brain still hurts, but DAMN it it a good book if you are interested in the idea of travelling through the dimensions of time and space, in regards to subatomic particles and their tendency to do whatever the fuck they want.

[novelty]

There is a missing theory for time travel:

If the speed of light is relative to time (as what Einstein said), that means time travel is just frozen bits of events. Imagine taking a picture and instead of it on paper, it would be in our actual lives. With that said, Time travel can damage our eyes and ears the same way we experience death because the mind would only process the same present information every single second.

Try to simply stare at a white screen and listen to a flatline for about 20 or so minutes. Not so great for our health.

[Diogenes]

I prefer the Dave Strider theory of time travel.

TG: the thing with time travel is
TG: you cant overthink it
TG: just roll with it and see what happens
TG: and above all try not to do anything retarded

Homestuck time travel is pretty weird shit, actually. It's kind of like types 1 and 2 mashed together; there's an Alpha Timeline, which is pretty much set in stone (whole lotta things that had to happen because they already happened if you were looking at it from the right perspective), but you can create Beta Timelines by going against the Alpha Timeline. Beta Timelines are A Bad Thing and end up ceasing to exist, usually after someone time travels back to change whatever knocked it off the rails. At least I think that's how it works. Homestuck's got so much Weird Time Shit it's hard to keep track of it all.

ps: read Homestuck.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

So this deals with traveling back to the past...

What about traveling to the future and trying to get back to the present from which you left? How exactly do these theories work with that, as I assume it's the same, right?

[Nintendoga]

So this deals with traveling back to the past...

What about traveling to the future and trying to get back to the present from which you left? How exactly do these theories work with that, as I assume it's the same, right?

Well Traveling to the future then going back to the past doesn't really change anything now, but if it regulated to changing something now, going to the future to see if it worked, then coming back to the present to change it again, then yea same principles apply.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

Well Traveling to the future then going back to the past doesn't really change anything now, but if it regulated to changing something now, going to the future to see if it worked, then coming back to the present to change it again, then yea same principles apply.

So if I had a character who in a freak accident gets flung into the future and is looking for a way back to his present, everything good? Hmm, glad to hear that, because I was putting a lot of study into how that could work out.

...And no I wasn't talking about Samurai Jack, I actually just remembered that being the case for that show.

Gotta get back, back to the past, Samurai Jack!

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic, 13 November 2011 - 05:27 AM.

[DJ FLiGHTS]

Mike, are you studying Time Travel so you can go back and save Rita from being killed...

Spoiler

...by you?

[RhikoruFa-La-La-La-♪]

Honestly, I want to consider a possibility where "Time Travel" isn't possible, per say...but entering a dimension that is as SIMILAR as possible with a necessary change IS.

So here's what I mean...(and this is all made up, and is based totally on fabrication)

Let's say, you have a soul/body disconnect (you die). You could remain in the current dimension, transcend reality to the "next level"...or...with sufficient access, you could do a dimensional shift.

You can access any dimension at any point in time, but you won't have a body unless you enter a dimension where:

a ) you exist
b ) you enter the dimension in a point in time where you are either just born or
c ) you die under conditions you can reasonably "come back", within 5 minutes or so of "death"

So if you exited Dimension A, but entered Dimension B, you could "time travel", but not really. You can NEVER go back to Dimension A. You are dead and stay dead in that Dimension. However, you could re-enter Dimension B, where your alternate dimensional soul leaves that body, leaving you the chance to enter that body, with your memories and consciousness from the previous dimension intact (so long as the brain of that version of yourself you're entering into has the mental capacity to handle that info + soul dump, so entering a dimension where you're just born probably isn't a good idea since that infant brain would likely not handle that info dump and die from info overload).

That's my wild and crazy idea, anyways. Probably totally impossible, but I like it. :F

Edited by RhikoruNa, 13 November 2011 - 06:00 AM.

[Metal Gear (sting)RAY]

I think Stephen Hawking put it best when he said "If time travel's possible, where are all the time travelers?" I suppose that observation alone doesn't disprove time travel, but it at least means that if it is possible, we live in "the main timeline" before anyone changed it.

[HUNTER297]

I think Stephen Hawking put it best when he said "If time travel's possible, where are all the time travelers?" I suppose that observation alone doesn't disprove time travel, but it at least means that if it is possible, we live in "the main timeline" before anyone changed it.

Lets think about it. If humanity would invent Time Machine would you let people travell to the point before Time Machine was invented? This could cause simple paradox where Time Machine is never invented and someone was never able to prevent from inventing it cause he never had Time Machine in the first place.

Basically if we would ever invent Time Machine we will need to have group of people to "take care" of time. We cant just give them to people and say "Hey you can travell anywhere! Or we should say "Anywhen"?". Can You imagine paradoxes it would cause!

[Nintendoga]

Lets think about it. If humanity would invent Time Machine would you let people travell to the point before Time Machine was invented? This could cause simple paradox where Time Machine is never invented and someone was never able to prevent from inventing it cause he never had Time Machine in the first place.

Basically if we would ever invent Time Machine we will need to have group of people to "take care" of time. We cant just give them to people and say "Hey you can travell anywhere! Or we should say "Anywhen"?". Can You imagine paradoxes it would cause!

But it depends, if Time travel really is based on the "Alternate Timeline theory, then that means that Time traveling would be useless, as it would not affect us in anyway, although I guess it could be used to find out some information about the past.

But yeah, if we ever did invent a time machine, it could only be given to certain people in the world,, cause if everyone had it, then we would all be fucked.

Funny enough, Futurama had the most plausible way to time travel, "Build a time machine that can only go forward in time, that way if you fuck up, it won't matter to us in the present."

Edited by Mike Dawson, 13 November 2011 - 08:14 PM.

[Deaf Guy in Music Plant]

We need the Time Police, obviously.

Spoiler

I dunno about time travel existing. It's a fun plot device, but it creates too many issues.
Do you guys remember the time traveling woman at the premiere of Charlie Chaplin's "Circus?" The video was big a few months ago.
The story is basically that the woman appeared to be talking on a cell phone while walking. Most people dismissed this as some crazy person, but it has always intrigued me.

Another one is that, in one of the logs of Christopher Columbus' journey to what he thought was the new world, either he or one of his shipmates (I don't recall) claimed to have seen a strange light moving about in the sky.

Which is part of my hope that one day we can take tours through time and see historical events.

[Metal Gear (sting)RAY]

Lets think about it. If humanity would invent Time Machine would you let people travell to the point before Time Machine was invented? This could cause simple paradox where Time Machine is never invented and someone was never able to prevent from inventing it cause he never had Time Machine in the first place.

Basically if we would ever invent Time Machine we will need to have group of people to "take care" of time. We cant just give them to people and say "Hey you can travell anywhere! Or we should say "Anywhen"?". Can You imagine paradoxes it would cause!

Just because people shouldn't travel to any time doesn't mean everyone will listen. There's always the possibility of some crazy guy wanting to travel back in time consequence free.

Edited by SuperStingray, 14 November 2011 - 01:52 AM.

[goku262002]

Anyone see family guy tonight?!

Great example of time travel gone wrong.

Where does it fit in that theory list?

[Death the Kid]

God.

I commend you for doing this. Time travel is fucking confusing, man.

Oh, I know the feeling. I -hate- time travel because of all the different paradoxes that shoot up out of the blue with it. @____@ confusion to the max!

[Nintendoga]

Anyone see family guy tonight?!

Great example of time travel gone wrong.

Where does it fit in that theory list?

Lol, I was actually gonna post about that after I saw that episode.

hmm, I don't actually know myself, but I guess it would fit under the Butterfly Effect/Merging Timelines theories. Or maybe the Alternate Timelines theory.

Spoiler

For those who don't know, Stewie and Brian went back in time to get Brian's Tennis Ball, but before they go back, Brian keeps telling his past self of future events, which fucks up the future. So they go back in time to stop them from going back in time. However this creates a paradox where more Brian and Stewies come back into the past, telling each of them that something wrong will happen if they stop they're past selves.

To sum it all up, Stewie tells everyone to go back to their Alternate Timelines, then goes into the past a little more, and tells future/past them to go back to their time to stop everything from happening, which for some weird reason, makes Stewie and Brian disappear from reality in the past, but allows for the main timeline of the show to be restored.

TIME TRAVEL, HOW DA FUCK DOES IT WORK!?!?

Edited by Mike Dawson, 14 November 2011 - 06:02 AM.

[Emmett L. Brown]

I think time travel backwards is impossible. Forever impossible. But man I love time travel fiction! Great thread.

Time travel forwards should be realisable any day now. Either accellerate towards the speed of light (but don't reach the speed of light because there'll be no Time for you to slow down again) or have your body held in suspended animation. The science of it isn't so far-fetched so far. Of course, the problem with time travel forwards is that it's a one-way trip. Just like normal living.

[VizardJeffhog]

I think you'll like reading/watching Stein's Gate.