40 replies to this topic

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

So I've been thinking a lot recently, and I've been wondering. Do Modern and Classic Sonic have to be separate any more, in terms of gameplay?

Now, I love Sonic Generations because (well, one reason because) it has some of my favourite Sonic play-styles in one game, Modern and Classic. Classic is awesome, if not 100% accurate, and Modern is also orgasmicly awesome and the best it's been, with lots of good 3d platforming. But I feel they have to be separate no longer. Let me explain.

So we have Modern Sonic gameplay. Take this, scrap boosting (more on this later), add spindash/rolling. Then make level designs more like "Classic in 3d", kind of like this (credit to NickinAmerica, and spoiler tagged for huge image)

Spoiler

but maybe with less space (still a lot of open space, but not to the extent here), and obviously utilizing Modern's increased moveset more. Make Sonic's control less centred around going from slow platforming to boosting, and more for decent mobility at all speeds, but still not over-sensitive where it becomes a chore to control him. And of course, add elemental shields. So in the end, we have momentum-play, rolling and spindash from Classic, but with Modern's added moveset.

EDIT: Heck, we could even keep the boost if we tweak it. Make it so it just makes you accelerate toward your boost speed, instead of an instant dash (you gain ramming power when you hit the max speed), and make Sonic unaffected by slopes when he does it, so you can use it to gain speed while moving uphill or on flat ground, but it becomes a waste of energy when you are on a downward slope. Obviously limited by a gauge, probably Colours style. This should make Modern and Classic's contribution more even, if you ask me.

I feel this would be the best of both worlds, and while obviously not uniting the divided fan base, maybethis would draw the two portions of the fanbase a little closer together.
Thoughts? Discuss!

Edited by Christmas Warp, 18 December 2011 - 10:27 PM.

[Soniman]

Didn't we have this topic like 5 other times?

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

Didn't we have this topic like 5 other times?

Not that I know of.

Edited by Christmas Warp, 18 December 2011 - 12:58 AM.

[Diogenes]

I'm not really sure how much Modern is contributing to this situation.

[Azure Yakuzu]

I'm not really sure how much Modern is contributing to this situation.

Don't really see any complaints from anybody...except from you.

[Username Taken ~ U. Waffle]

Don't really see any complaints from anybody...except from you.

I dont see much posts to complain in.

And while this style could work. I'd be more interested in letting Sonic Team evolve on Modern's style. Maybe they could make the levels more centered around an iconic Sonic move.

[Nitwit_Speed]

If you've ever seen that Generations hack where Classic Sonic is in the Modern stages, that's pretty relevant here. Part of Modern Sonic's code is actually present there, and not just because he's in 3D. He has Classic's handling with Modern's physics. While i can't say i've ever actually played it (ineedthatgraphicscardrightnoworipromisei'll-), it looks almost like playing a Sonic Adventure. If you give him the drift and the lightspeed dash and the stomp and plop him in a stage like the one pictured above, i'd be one happy camper.

EDIT: @Shadic: This would be mostly Classic with a few of Modern's moves, so Classic Sonic's contribution would be a lot larger than Moderns. While it's no reason to downplay it's importance, the table would still stand if Modern wasn't holding it up in this situation.

Edited by santalord767, 18 December 2011 - 02:30 AM.

[Azure Yakuzu]

I dont see much posts to complain in.

And while this style could work. I'd be more interested in letting Sonic Team evolve on Modern's style. Maybe they could make the levels more centered around an iconic Sonic move.

I have no problem with that, and I want ST to evolve more with their games, I just don't think Modern is as insignificant as people make it seem.

.EDIT: @Shadic: This would be mostly Classic with a few of Modern's moves, so Classic Sonic's contribution would be a lot larger than Moderns. While it's no reason to downplay it's importance, the table would still stand if Modern wasn't holding it up in this situation.

Both of them hold the table up pretty well if you ask me.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

EDIT: @Shadic: This would be mostly Classic with a few of Modern's moves, so Classic Sonic's contribution would be a lot larger than Moderns. While it's no reason to downplay it's importance, the table would still stand if Modern wasn't holding it up in this situation.

I don't think you give Modern enough credit in my little arrangement. There would still be quickstep sections, you would still use the drift to make turns at speed, you would still wall jump (in the 2d sections, 70:30 ratio and where it makes sense to have a 2d section people!), and otherwise do everything you would do in a modern game. It is really (to me) just "replace boosting with momentum physics", and the levels would reflect (as in the picture I posted). So I feel that both side's contributions are about even.

[Semi-colon e]

I swear all your threads are the fucking same. But I've never posted in one of them as far as I know, so I'll give it a shot.

I don't really mind Modern and Classic styles being separated. I'm not sure why people act like it's such a crime, or that only Classic should exist. Perhaps Spin Dash plus Modern abilities might work, but if I'm honest, I actually rather like the boost, especially the air boost and drifting around corners. I think both styles are fun :x I find it so strange that people get so invested in the movesets and the boost and classic physics and stuff. The classic physics are better than say Sonic 4, but that game had more than just physics problems. Maybe I'm just open minded, or worse still, a shameless Sonic whore. What I mean to say is, I don't think the inclusion of the boost, homing attack, or not having the right classic physics is a deal breaker. Bad level design and poor controls are a deal breaker, hence I don't like Sonic 4 all that much, and this is the important reason a game like 06 is so hated, aside from all the story crap.

Edited by White Acrimbopolis, 18 December 2011 - 11:53 AM.

[y cant solkia crawl]

Merging the two style won't bring the fanbase closer, in fact it'd probably just seperate the fanbase even more.

I'd honestly really miss the boost if they scrapped it, but I doubt anyone other then Haruhi Claus would agree with me.

[Tornado]

Don't really see any complaints from anybody...except from you.

He's right, though. This is basically "make classic Sonic 3D" rather than "unite the two." There is little to no Modern Sonic elements in this idea.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

He's right, though. This is basically "make classic Sonic 3D" rather than "unite the two." There is little to no Modern Sonic elements in this idea.

What about quick step sections, drifting around corners, stomping, using the roll like the slide and going under things, 2d wall jumping, and tricks? These would all still be there.

[BlueBlur99]

Why not keep the adventure gameplay going? I could just imagine SA2 with updated graphics.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

Why not keep the adventure gameplay going? I could just imagine SA2 with updated graphics.

Because it has been surpassed? I still like SA2's Sonic/Shadow stages, but they were very linear, and did not have much platforming. The Modern stages, which have sections far faster then SA2, still manage to have expansive alternate paths and good 3d platforming. But that's off topic.

[Diogenes]

What about quick step sections, drifting around corners, stomping, using the roll like the slide and going under things, 2d wall jumping, and tricks? These would all still be there.

These are all fairly small pieces of gameplay. And what are tricks even for, without a boost?

Also quick step sections suck.

Edited by Diogenes, 18 December 2011 - 04:51 PM.

[batson]

I have side with the idea that if they could somehow replicate something very close to the classic's gameplay in 3D, pretty much everything that's specific for the modern (by which i mean Unleashed-Colors-Generations) 3D gameplay could be scapped. The boost wouldn't feel at home in a game with more momentum based physics.

I do kinda like the homing attack however, but then again that's not an aspect invented for what we nowadays call the "modern" Sonic gameplay. So yeah, even though i greatly enjoyed both Unleashed and especially Colors (still haven't played Generations yet) i really cant think of a single major new gameplay element from them that i feel would truly improve a classic-style game.

Edited by batson, 18 December 2011 - 05:00 PM.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

Also quick step sections suck.

I don't think they suck, but we all have the right to our own opinion I guess.

And what are tricks even for, without a boost?

For points?
Heck, we could even keep the boost if we tweak it. Make it so it just makes you accelerate toward your boost speed, instead of an instant dash (you gain ramming power when you hit the max speed), and make Sonic unaffected by slopes when he does it, so you can use it to gain speed while moving uphill or on flat ground, but it becomes a waste of energy when you are on a downward slope. Obviously limited by a gauge, probably Colours style.

Edited by Christmas Warp, 18 December 2011 - 10:25 PM.

[PeanutButterDimond]

I actualluy really like the boost. Honestly, I hope they keep it. Having momentum physics and a spindash would be nice but I wouldn't want it to compromise any parts of Modern's gameplay. The idea in the first post sounds more like "Put Classic Sonic in 3D with a few of Modern's moves" than "Unite them both".

Modern's gameplay stood up well on it's own in the Modern levels of Generations so I don't see reason to take away from it and not to continue to tweak around with it.

[eXtaticus]

I feel that quick-step and drift are both unnecessary gimmicks that exist at the expense of other gameplay elements; Sonic Team gimped the way that Sonic handles so that they had an excuse to add something new to the formula where it really wasn't at all needed - and it makes the controls ridiculously complex for a game in a franchise that initially prided itself on using only one button.

So, that's half of Modern Sonic's move set gone - and it leaves this:

A tightly controlled 3D Sonic platformer with a more tempered speed, less linear, more open level design, spindash as opposed to boosting and a decent balance of mobility at all velocities - and THAT sounds like a great ide-

Spoiler

... Ah.

Sonic Adventure 3, anybody? *shot*

Edited by eXmastaticus, 18 December 2011 - 05:14 PM.