40 replies to this topic

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

I feel that quick-step and drift are both unnecessary gimmicks that exist at the expense of other gameplay elements; Sonic Team gimped the way that Sonic handles so that they had an excuse to add something new to the formula where it really wasn't at all needed - and it makes the controls ridiculously complex for a game in a franchise that initially prided itself on using only one button.

So, that's half of Modern Sonic's move set gone - and it leaves this:

A tightly controlled 3D Sonic platformer with a more tempered speed, less linear, more open level design, spindash as opposed to boosting and a decent balance of mobility at all velocities - and THAT sounds like a great ide-

Spoiler

... Ah.

Sonic Adventure 3, anybody? *shot*

I don't think SA2 is the best example, as it was quite linear, and did not have much platforming. If anything, you were describing something closer to SA1.

[Marco]

Merging the two style won't bring the fanbase closer, in fact it'd probably just seperate the fanbase even more.

I'd honestly really miss the boost if they scrapped it, but I doubt anyone other then Haruhi Claus would agree with me.

I can't say I would miss the boost, but I don't believe it should be scrapped anyway. I understand that the boost makes Sonic invincible and it deviates from platforming, but the Generations gameplay for Modern Sonic is good, and I'm not entirely sure why people are complaining about it, honestly. If anything, it actually showed how Classic and Modern can join together.

[Nepenthe]

I have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised at how relatively conservative the boosting was in modern Sonic's main acts despite their ability to maintain the adrenaline and addictive quality I appreciated in Unleashed, as well as how the increase of traditional platforming didn't lend itself to completely bogging the pace down like in Colors. If nothing else, a lot of the platforming in both Sonic's acts facilitated conserved motion in a way reminiscent of DKC:R. There's nothing more satisfying in that game than bouncing perfectly off of enemies or balloons to land in the next area, or using Sonic's abilities to reach and keep on the higher path. What isn't surprising, though, is that this type of level design didn't completely neuter the Unleashed formula as people were desperately predicting such platforming would. It's such a significant improvement that I see no reason to call the gameplay stale right now and get rid of it or its major tenets of design.

[Diogenes]

If anything, it actually showed how Classic and Modern can join together.

Nothing in Generations shows anything about classic and modern joined.

Edited by Diogenes, 18 December 2011 - 08:04 PM.

[Indigo Rush]

Do Modern and Classic Sonic gameplay styles have to be separated? No.

Do Modern and Classic Sonic gameplay styles have to be conjoined? No.

Do Sonic games have to be good and fun? Yes.

[PeanutButterDimond]

I feel that quick-step and drift are both unnecessary gimmicks that exist at the expense of other gameplay elements; Sonic Team gimped the way that Sonic handles so that they had an excuse to add something new to the formula where it really wasn't at all needed - and it makes the controls ridiculously complex for a game in a franchise that initially prided itself on using only one button.

So, that's half of Modern Sonic's move set gone - and it leaves this:

A tightly controlled 3D Sonic platformer with a more tempered speed, less linear, more open level design, spindash as opposed to boosting and a decent balance of mobility at all velocities - and THAT sounds like a great ide-

Spoiler

... Ah.

Sonic Adventure 3, anybody? *shot*

Gimmicks? I'm not sure if I can agree with that. I definitely don't agree that they are at the expense of other gameplay elements. They're pretty nice in my opinion. They make avoiding obstacles and turning at high speeds easier.

Also how did they gimp how Sonic controls. Despite turning at low speeds being a bit stiff, i feel Sonic controlled the best he ever has in 3D, even in compared to the Adventure games. This was the first 3D Sonic game where it wasn't hard to jump on enemies in 3D without the homing attack.

As for what you want in a Sonic game, Generations was pretty nonlinear with tons of multiple paths, especially after Chemical Plant. I absolutely love the multiple paths in Generations.

I felt that Generations had a decent balance of mobility after Chemical plant. there was a good mixture of platforming and speed that I felt was balanced really well and wasn't polarizing.

[Marco]

Nothing in Generations shows anything about classic and modern joined.

That's subjective. Modern Sonic in the 2D playing field was pretty much a better version of Classic Sonic to me. Nevermind that Classic Sonic himself didn't emulate the Classic Games well, but at this point I don't think anything will.

[Diogenes]

That's subjective.

Not really. Either it combines elements of the two or it doesn't.

Modern Sonic in the 2D playing field was pretty much a better version of Classic Sonic to me.

If you're talking about Generations Classic, well, that's because Generations Classic is pretty much just a crippled Modern Sonic.

Nevermind that Classic Sonic himself didn't emulate the Classic Games well, but at this point I don't think anything will.

CD does.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

CD does.

CD was a game made in the 90s along with the Genesis Sonic's, which happened to be remade, so that does not count.

[Indigo Rush]

CD was a game made in the 90s along with the Genesis Sonic's, which happened to be remade, so that does not count.

Point missed.

Argument was: "I don't think anything can emulate the classics."

Rebuttal was: "(Taxman's) CD does."

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

Point missed.

Argument was: "I don't think anything can emulate the classics."

Rebuttal was: "(Taxman's) CD does."

Oh, now I get it. And yes, Taxman did an amazing job.

[King Sombrero]

I personally find quick step sections very shallow and requiring of very little skill as opposed to real platforming so I wouldn't miss them at all, nor drifting sections since I think just tightening controlls can make the drift move unneeded. Tricks are a nice little addition that wouldn't affect gameplay, they can keep or scrap them. I hate the slide, they should replace it with rolling.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

I think just tightening controlls can make the drift move unneeded. Tricks are a nice little addition that wouldn't affect gameplay, they can keep or scrap them. I hate the slide, they should replace it with rolling.

As for the rolling, thank you for making a point I wholeheartedly stand beside. As for the drifting, I feel that Sonic needs to be stiff at speed to be controllable, but when you need to turn, the drift can come it. I believe the drift is flexible enough to not require a specific section, like the quick step (which I feel the potential it could have is missed).

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

I know I'm kinda double-bumping my topic, but I have no better place to post this idea.

If we tweak Sonic's handling, we don't need to make the boost accelerate. Let me explain.
Basically, make it so Sonic can turn far sharper at speeds (I know this makes the drift redundant, but hey, we can scrap it), but when boosting, turning is basically impossible. Also, make it to the boost consumes far more energy while going uphill (how much more obviously depends on how steep the hill is) and no changes while going downhill (boosting downhill has to not take any more effort then boosting on flat ground right?), so the best places to boost are flatter, straighter areas (or hilly areas you can find a flatter path through), and rolling is better for almost everywhere else, making the boost very level design based, so, in flatter, more urban zones, the boost is better, but in more natural momentum playgrounds, rolling reigns supreme.

[Xenos]

I hate the slide, they should replace it with rolling.

I still don't understand why people push on this so much.

I mean, hell, the only difference they have is that they look different for God's sake.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

I still don't understand why people push on this so much.

I mean, hell, the only difference they have is that they look different for God's sake.

Not really.
The slide's only real purpose is to get under things, while rolling could do that and more. As well as going under things, the roll opens up infinite possibilities for interesting curving and momentum-based level design.

[Xenos]

Not really.
The slide's only real purpose is to get under things, while rolling could do that and more. As well as going under things, the roll opens up infinite possibilities for interesting curving and momentum-based level design.

All of that can be used by the slide already.

But I don't give much of a damn, I just want more curvy level design. Because the Modern Formula has some jarring flow problems at times.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

All of that can be used by the slide already.

But if it can already do that, wouldn't it make more sense just to change it visually to a roll? Because it's a lot more Sonic-y then a slide.

[King Sombrero]

I still don't understand why people push on this so much.

I mean, hell, the only difference they have is that they look different for God's sake.

Slide creates friction which slows you down, with rolling you can gain some good speed to launch yourself off of ramps(as long as level design allows) and its a traditional Sonic moves making it feel more welcome, personaly. Slide seems too Megaman-ish...

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

Slide creates friction which slows you down, with rolling you can gain some good speed to launch yourself off of ramps(as long as level design allows) and its a traditional Sonic moves making it feel more welcome, personaly. Slide seems too Megaman-ish...

Could have not said it better myself.