This keeps coming up as a tangent in various topics, so why not ask these questions directly:
How do you view the various time zones in Sonic CD? How far back and ahead are the Past and Future? What do the zones/rounds look like to you in each timezone?
These questions seem fairly straightforward, except that I find no two people answer them the same way, so I'm curious to see what people actually think of them in detail. For the purposes of this topic, as it's meant to examine how the environments seemed to you, even factually inaccurate interpretations are valid, so please critique with care. This is the topic where I reveal that even I have crazy head-fanon too. My secret shame...
My own interpretations have to be coloured by the facts that I had no-one else to discuss them with at the time and that I was about 9 when I first played CD. As someone who was fascinated enough by this stuff as a kid to draw Bad Future/Good Future fanart (yes, really), and having read other people's interpretations up until now - Zone 0's versions being of particular interest to me - this is how I look at it these days:
General Time on the Little Planet doesn't flow in sync with anything in particular, so in practice trying to nail down a specific measurement of the gap between eras is rather pointless. Whilst it's never actually stated that travelling through time on the planet actually moves you through time in the rest of the universe, I always thought it did, and this is how I establish a point of reference. Eventually I settled on the gap between eras being roughly 8000 years. There's no particular reason for this, it just seemed appropriate.
Also notably, due to the fact that there is never any evidence of an existing sentient population, only consistently abandoned self-operating structures planetwide, I make the assumption that the planet itself is more alive than people realise and constantly modifying itself over time - simply because that makes more sense than empty cities building themselves. Related to this, the Robot Generators have such a drastically damaging effect on the area they infest not just because of the robots they generate, but because they're designed to directly distort and control the planet's own self-modification to suit their master's needs.
Palmtree Panic
Spoiler
Past - More full of palmtrees than the Present, and yet to feature its iconic star plants. This Past always seemed to me to simply be a version of the zone that had yet to see any wilful deforestation or significant climate change; in other words a literal prototypical version of the Present. Specifically, the place never felt prehistoric to me, and whilst the palmtrees were different back in ancient times, they were still fundamentally a palmtree.
Present - The sudden large mountain ranges existing only in this time period always bothered me, yet I thought it explained why the large mountain ramps only existed in this time period. Yup, instead of giant loops, I envisioned going up a giant mountain ramp. I still do. Generally then, this era feels like a tropical mountainside to me.
Bad Future - The mountains are gone, eroded, and the place has gone to hell. In keeping with Eggman's ultimate goal to create a giant metallic base planet, the rocks have been replaced completely by rusted metal, and in fact nothing natural remains in the zone at all short of a few very decayed dead trees. Even the "water" is now a fast-flowing mercury lake, and palmtrees are long extinct.
Good Future - Palmtrees still died out eventually, yet replacement lookalike metal trees were created as homages and memorials. Artifical brass "rock" formations were created to replace the eroded mountainside and stylised to maintain the local wildlife's habitat as best as possible, and water pipes artifically maintain the grass and fauna.
Collision Chaos
Spoiler
Past - Now this is the actual jungle area. Indeed it may very well be the one you can see in the background of Palmtree Panic. The bumpers and flippers are artifical installations imported by Eggman, the easiest and simplest to establish. Basic construction has also begun on what will become a hostile neon district. Everything else is natural rocky jungle outcroppings, set beside a neatly flowing river.
Present - It looks like somewhere along the way Eggman realised he couldn't install any working slot machines and promptly compromised with a neon undercity instead. The wacky bumper and flipper installations remain, but Collision Chaos feels like the one project on the Little Planet that never went anywhere, as the whole area feels like a project eventually abandoned after several misfires and changes of direction.
Bad Future - In the end, the area was reclaimed, abandoned construction resumed, and the area was transformed into a secondary computing hub to run the planet's gigantically complex world-spanning electronics, with the existing technology repurposed as a local computer health testbed. Even if the area is dead and metallicised as Palmtree Panic was, the area is nevertheless in far better condition than most of the Little Planet, implying this area is too important not to maintain.
Good Future - On the other hand, in the Good Future the abandoned construction was built upon to smooth out its most dangerous aspects and attempt to restore the original jungle environment as best as possible in a world where the original fauna is extinct. Collision Chaos itself appears to be mostly unused, environmental supports notwithstanding, with the actual city being across the river out of harm's way.
Tidal Tempest
Spoiler
Past - This is a limestone hotspring cave near a very active volcano range supplying it with heat and the tectonic activity required to create the cave to begin with. Eggman has installed some very basic equipment making the most of what he has to work with at this point in time whilst laying the foundations to make more substantial systems later on. Eggman even tries to create a basic wave machine in this timezone.
Present - Time and the installation of powerful water pumps has adjusted the water level in the zone, and Eggman's apparent love of the design of the Labyrinth Zone is revealed as the area now strongly resembles an Eggman-designed parody of the zone with much more advanced ancient-looking-yet-not traps and machinery. The natural limestone has been carved into an actual complex building network by this point in time, although the fundamental hot spring features remain intact. More advanced tidal simulators are installed with an unclear goal in mind.
Bad Future - Rampant resource exploitation from elsewhere allowed Eggman to finally convert the area into his ultimate plan for a toxic chemical storage facility after years of testing techniques to store hazardous material at high temperatures to leave it more viscous and free-flowing. Naturally, this complete technology is metallic rather than made of limestone, and the sheer volume of chemicals has massively increased the "water" level once again. The entire area is now a combined storage area and pumping station, with only decayed statues and plants hinting at what came before; clearly no living thing has actually been inside this place for a long time.
Good Future - The machinery once being prepared to found a pumping station... was used to make a pumping station. This time, however, the station pumps water, and is used to provide a habitat for tropical sea life that can no longer exist in its original habitat, with plants stored in safety containers all across the walls and halls of the facility and the pumping used to create the tidal effect. The water level is much higher for the simple reason that the facility is designed for sea creatures, not people. The facility is now composed of an elaborate future-tech limestone-steel alloy used to pave the halls and construct the completed machinery. The worn-down natural cave walls have been lined with an unusual pink polymer to preserve the cave's structure without harming the imported wildlife.
Quartz Quadrant
Spoiler
Past - Overflowing with natural timber and quartz, Eggman's been busy here already, using the wood to hurriedly establish scaffolding for a mining facility and primitive conveyor belt technology. Most of the zone is a giant, unspoilt mineral-rich cavern, the cavern being surrounded by thriving swampland sealing the area away. Areas that will become transport tubing and other technological features are already being mapped out and prepared for development, with a few early successes.
Present - Here, the mining facility is fully constructed, although some transport systems have proven unable to handle the workload and are being renovated. The scaffolds have been reconstructed out of steel and adapted quartz to improve stability, and the conveyor belts have been renovated to more efficient, faster designs. Climate change and rampant erosion have converted the former swampland surroundings into rocky forest cliffs, the far-off forests quietly recovering with the sharp reduction in demand for local timber. The caverns still have an abundance of minerals remaining within, although they are massively more spacious than before after millenia of mining operations.
Bad Future - Eventually, the caverns were overmined well into the planet's molten core; the machinery mining the caverns into an uninhabitable yet very active magma well, suitable to become a massive geothermal power station. The gigantic amount of power generated here is enough to power a sea of factories surrounding the former mining facility, now constructed entirely out of heavily worn steel and featuring copious hazard signs to ward away invited guests and even more efficient conveyor technologies, fitted with now redundant transportation systems designed to support a long-ceased operation. Life, as expected by now, is completely gone from this area. In fact it's no longer possible to see any signs of nature at all here.
Good Future - Alternatively, the course of history swings in the opposite direction; the vast caverns are eventually mined out completely, yet not overmined, leaving vast amounts of habitable space to construct an underground metropolis area. The technology outside once again provides environmental stabilisation and support, surrounding the vast and prosperous supercity with an oxygen farm filled with salvaged plant-life. The prosperity of the area is such that the entire city is built out of pure gold lining every walkway. The transportation technologies have been extended and retained to efficiently transfer goods and equipment in and out of the metropolis, and the remaining residual minerals in the walls shimmer a pleasant blue.
Wacky Workbench
Spoiler
Past - This area would be nothing more than a desert canyon in every timezone were it not for Eggman setting up an experimental technology factory and internal power station here. The area already buzzes with excess electricity, and is being rapidly completed into a secure and self-contained testbed system, with much of the work already completed. It seems the facility was constructed over a small temple, a small section of which has yet to be discovered and gutted.
Present - The contained experimental testing chamber is complete and fully functional. The floor and walls are aglow with overflowing electric generators, the facility secure and stretching for miles in the distance, with the technology built in this area a sure sign of what the future will bring planetwide. The temple has been completely dismantled.
Bad Future - With Eggman simultaneously having no further use for a testbed and no reason to shut it down and repurpose it either, the facility has worn itself down into the ground over centuries. Whilst significant portions of the facility are in a state of disrepair, the bulk of the facility is intact and functional despite being thoroughly rusted-over. Nothing in this facility is notable anymore as you can see variations of the technology developed here across the planet, although Eggman saw fit to install a parody of the temple on its old site.
Good Future - Rather than destroy such a well-designed facility designed to innovate, it was repurposed into a giant toy factory. The facility is now dedicated to finding unique ways to entertain, with the bouncy floor left intact for recreational purposes. Anything posing a genuine threat to people's safety has either been disabled or removed entirely, whilst anything with the potential to be really fun has been restored and maintained for research.
Stardust Speedway
Spoiler
Past - A long-abandoned historical city site. The area has returned to nature for now, with vast vines stretching out into the skyways, creating new paths and coating existing roadways, and the sea surrounding the city's giant buildings clearly visible. The night sky is clear and bright with the stars clearly visible. An abandoned central city palace features in the landscape. The area has already been fitted by Eggman with traps designed to turn Sonic's speed into a serious disadvantage, though they don't work perfectly. The area is a picture of enduring glory.
Present - The ancient city has been torn down and replaced with what appears to be a thriving modern city, despite having only one living inhabitant. Said inhabitant has taken to erecting a statue of himself for fun and profit, which occupies the same space the city palace used to be. The night sky is still visible, though now it's heavily rivalled by the bright city lights. The skyways have been refitted and expanded, now constructed of gleaming brass. As if to prove the choice of material, the new skyways are now fitted with trumpet-like speaker systems carrying city announcements and advertisements as far as the eye can see. The area has become a symbol of immediate gratification, entertainment, glitz and glamour.
Bad Future - Interestingly, even if the city's skyways aren't in the best shape due to millenia of disuse and neglect, the area itself actually manages to be the most well-maintained and flat-out intact area on the whole planet, as evidenced by the Eggman statue actually being completed. Even then this doesn't say much as the skyways have decayed, the brass stripping away and the underlying copper alloys corroding and twisting over centuries. The speaker systems have been left to rot. Worse, the sky has been completely blotted out by a permanent thunderstorm that looks like it's on fire. The city remains yet it simply exists, and that's all it can really hope to do in a world like this. The area has become nothing but a reflection of better days and past glories.
Good Future - Taking lessons from the civilisations that seemed to exist before, the view of the local sea is restored to the glory of millenia prior and the city has been expanded into a festive amusement park taking full advantage of the former skyways to create rollercoaster tracks. The entire area has been renovated and as with the Past to the Present, little evidence of the former civilisation remains as the area looks forward to the future; even the night sky looks better than it ever has before. After all, in this reality there are plenty of other places to colonise. The Eggman statue has been torn down and replaced by a new palace construction, though this one looks to be built for fun this time. This time, the area has become a representation of the brighter side of life.
Metallic Madness
Spoiler
Past - This is very obviously Eggman's base under construction, already with the vast majority of the core structure and hostile traps complete. Everything here is tried and tested; Eggman's keeping his sure bets closest to home. The base's metal still has the opportunity to reflect the blue sky for now instead of dull artifical lighting.
Present - The core structure actually remains mostly the same, excluding a few incomplete constructs now completed. The news is in the larger expanded structure - the base is much larger and has long since sealed itself off from the outside world. This area already looks like a less rundown version of the Bad Futures you have already seen, only even more dangerous and foreboding. Stretching for miles, it appears that this is the ultimate source of the corruption you see in the Future, even when all else fails. The artifical lighting casts a dull green glow across the base, which is more like a robot city haven.
Bad Future - Despite being rundown and decaying at this point, the base clearly became significantly more elaborate outside of the central building before being left to rot - the constructs in the distance are far larger, more complex and designed for domination rather than conquest. No longer really needing a stronghold with the world already his, Metallic Madness is now nothing but a giant supercomputer holding the planet together, it seems the Doctor's main base of operations in the Future now being Stardust Speedway.
Good Future - As before, rather than tear down anything that could be useful instead Eggman's former base has been radically retrofitted to restore life to the area. The base now houses the planet's largest tree and has become the central research centre into artifical environment support: the entire first act is an oxygen farm in its purest form with plants stuffed in every free space, the second and third being parts of the major research facility itself. It seems that Eggman made his security systems a little too well, as many of his traps have been left intact, especially buzzsaws. Even in this much brighter tomorrow, this is still by far the most dangerous place on the planet.
*whew*
That took forever to write. Still curious though! What do you see in Sonic CD's world?
I see past as being back not quite to prehistoric times, but maybe about a few thousand years back. I see futures as also ebing maybe a few thousand years later. Good futures usually show many advancements and bad futures show decay where maybe eggman destroyed the place and this time period is long after he died and nobody has tried to reclaim it as shown by the lack of enemies and badniks that probably lack any sort of repair or maintenance.
I like to think of it as sort of like this using existing stages:
Present: Empire City
Past: Some small village stage from SatBK
Good Future: Grand Metropolis
Bad Future: Crisis City
Your take on the timezones seems a bit pessimistic. Like how you seem to believe that every zone was radically affected by Eggman, and the Good Futures seem to be a reversal of the Bad Future's destruction and it's basically making the best of a bad situation. IDK if that's accurate. As for when the time zone's are, that's a difficult question because of how inconsistent the time zones are when compared to other zones. For instance, some of the more natural zones have prehistoric looking Pasts that could've took place centuries ago, while ones that Eggman has clearly conquered seem like they could've happened as early as 10 years ago (that's the feeling I get with Wacky Workbench and its discoish sounding music). The Bad Futures could have happened at any time depending on how quickly Eggman took over, it doesn't take that long to completely destroy the environment, but the Good Futures probably took more time considering how advanced they are. Most likely, I'd say the other three time zones are somewhere from 50-200 years before or after the Present, but that's just a rough generalization. It could be just about anything.
Spoiler
Palmtree Panic Past: Prehistoric jungle virtually untouched by Eggman. Most likely several centuries before the present.
Palmtree Panic Present: The jungle has gotten more tropical and rockier, but still largely untouched by Eggman.
Palmtree Panic Bad Future: The jungle has decayed and rotted and been replaced by metal structures imitating the terrain as it used to be. However, it currently seems to have been abandoned and been used as a dumping ground by the rusted structures and the polluted river in the background and being channeled through the various pipes. Could take place as early as several decades after the Present.
Palmtree Panic Good Future: The palmtrees are still metal, but are much nicer looking, possibly being used for decoration. Furthermore, the wiater is still being channeled to various parts of the area, most likely to ergonomically keep the greenery healthy (assuming it's still natural, which it's hard to tell). Also only several decades after the Present
Collision Chaos Past: Rockier jungle, with floating islands everywhere. However, Eggman has clearly started to take over the zone, installing the structures that are common in the present. The iconic pinball bumpers and flippers have already been installed, though, and dominate most of the zone. Seems to be several centuries before the Present.
Collision Chaos Present: The jungle is mostly destroyed and replaced by more technological structures and computers and flashing neon lights everywhere.
Collision Chaos Bad Future: The zone seems to be pretty well maintained, but the general damage done to the planet has turned the sky dark and what's left of the rocky terrain gray and sand-looking. The computers and neon lights seem a bit more prominent. Could be as early as only a few decades after the Present
Collision Chaos Good Future: Seems to have been converted into a utopian city, with much more greenery everywhere. The flippers, bumpers, computers, and neon lights are still in use, though. Takes place at least several decades after the Present.
Tidal Tempest Past: Underwater ruins set within a limestone cavern. Seems to have been built by an ancient civilization, but Eggman seems to have found it and is installing piping in the area. Possibly takes place a few decades before the Present.
Tidal Tempest Present: Oddly enough, the cavern is sealed off by ancient structures as opposed to more technological ones typically seen by Eggman. This doesn't seem to make much sense, but there are several possible explanations for this. Either Eggman did not install the piping and the civilization was more advanced than it appears (in which case Eggman took it over after the Present) or Eggman, for whatever reason, decided to forego constructing his usual structures in place of ones that seem to fit in with the rest of the level, possibly so as not to alert Sonic to that activities.
Tidal Tempest Bad Future: Eggman invasion of the ruins is now complete, and the ruins themselves were either destroyed or altered with Eggman's own image. The area itself seems to be used as a sewer system, as the water is now murky and probably toxic (from a realistic standpoint, it's a wonder Sonic doesn't die instantly in it) and the water level has raised (seeing as all of the dirty water and runoff probably ends up passing through here). Probably takes place about a century after the Present.
Tidal Tempest Good Future: The ruins have been converted into a high tech marine preserve for plants and sealife. The plants are safely contained within stasis tanks and piping distributing water around the facility. Machines keep an eye on the entire facility, and are probably used to monitor the plants and sea life there. Takes place about a century or two after the Present.
Quartz Quadrant Past: A series of quartz caverns set among a swampy forest. Eggman is trying to mine the area for quartz crystals (either he's looking for Time Stones or using them for other temporal properties). He's already set up several wooden platforms and conveyor belts in the area to distribute materials to and from the area. Probably many decades before the present.
Quartz Quadrant Present: The mining facility is fully operational, and the wooden structures have been replaced by more metallic ones. Eggman is hard at work mining the quartz from the facility for his own nefarious purposes, but hasn't seem to have negatively affected the environment yet aside from the causing the swamp to drain out and be replaced by a much denser forest (possibly due to the fact that he no longer needs timber to build the facility).
Quartz Quadrant Bad Future: The facility as served its purpose for mining, as the quartz crystals are long gone. However, due to Eggman's actions, magma seems to have bubbled to the surface. He took advantage of this to make it a geothermal plant, powering miles of factories that stand where the forest used to be. Takes place about a century after the Present.
Quartz Quadrant Good Future: With Eggman no longer in charge of the facility, it's been converted into an underground city, naturally lit by the remaining quartz crystals. Many of Eggman's structures still remain, possibly as a means of transport around the city. Probably set several decades after the Present.
Wacky Workbench Past: The factory is still under construction in the past (probably by Eggman), set in a rocky canyon. The trademark bouncy floors and electrical conduits are already built and span much of the facility. In addition, there is a hidden set of ruins in the beginning. Could take place as early as a few years before the Present, but given the placement of other levels, is probably much further in the past than it appears.
Wacky Workbench Present: The factory is fully constructed and fully functional, now much more dangerous than in the Past. The ruins seem to have been found and either sealed off or demolished.
Wacky Workbench Bad Future: For whatever reason, the factory has been abandoned at some point, and rusted over, becoming much less safe than the Present due to broken down and sparking machinery. However, before it was abandoned, many more electrical conduits were installed and Eggman placed a statue of himself where the ruins used to be. Probably takes place several decades after the Present.
Wacky Workbench Good Future: The factory has been converted into a toy factory, looking a lot more fun and colorful than it used to be. The electrical conduits have been disabled, but not removed curiously. Could take place as early as a decade after the Present.
Stardust Speedway Past: An ancient city styled similarly to a Greek or Roman city. Curiously, there are highways crisscrossing everywhere, but covered in vines. It is unknown what purpose they could've served. Probably took place several centuries before the Present
Stardust Speedway Present: The city has been converted into a more modern city with lots of bright lights and brass highways lined with musical instruments of all things. Eggman is starting to take over the area, and constructing a giant statue of himself.
Stardust Speedway Bad Future: The city has been fully taken over by Eggman, and is now fully under his control. The sky seems to have been polluted, with ominous red clouds and periodic thunderstorms blocking the view of the stars. Eggman has finally completed his statue and it stands as a symbol of his control over the area. Furthermore, the highway is a lot more mechanical, and the decorations along it have worn down. Probably takes place several decades after the Present.
Stardust Speedway Good Future: The city has been converted into an amusement park, being used for more recreational purposes now. The sky is clear and the stars can be clearly seen now. The Eggman statue has been demolished and replaced with a modern mansion of all things. Probably takes place a few decades after the Present.
Metallic Madness Past: Eggman is in the process of building his secret base, and it is already largely constructed. Many of his traps have already been installed and is already a dangerous place. Could take place as soon as a few years before the Present.
Metallic Madness Present: The base is now finished construction and operational, solidified as Eggman's base of operations.
Metallic Madness Bad Future: Oddly enough, the base is in a state of disrepair despite Eggman having complete control. Several machines have broken down, but Eggman still seems to use it. I honestly have no idea why it's broken down, you'd think he'd be taking better care of his own creations, especially his own base. Probably takes place several decades after the Present.
Metallic Madness Good Future: Eggman has lost control of the base, and it has now turned into another high tech nature preserve, housing many different types of plants and trees. Eggman's is still lurking around in the innermost part of his base, awaiting the final showdown between the two of you, but his influence is largely gone from the facility. Probably takes place a few decades after the Present.
Edited by Bolt The Cat, 05 January 2012 - 09:25 AM.
How is this affected by the way that the second act always transitions directly into a future in the third act? Given that we're restored to the present between the first two acts as well, is there some other kind of chaotic spatio-temporal flow at work here, and that each area exists in a self-contained time bubble that can only be accessed at certain chronological positions? (Well, the real answer is that it's all gameplay - you start the first and second acts in the present as a kind of default, so that your explorations in one act don't impact your position in the next, and then you shift to the future for the third act to show the overall effect of your adventuring thus far.)
How is this affected by the way that the second act always transitions directly into a future in the third act?
In the end I simply assumed that at the end of the second act there was an section of impassable terrain, a Future sign, and some kind of mechanism (two springs, u-bend halfpipe, etc.) to force Sonic to time travel forward.
This would also apply to getting back to the Present. Basically had CD been released after 3&K it'd have stuff like this.
Location:Somewhere in the deep depths of Mystic Cave Zone......
Country:
Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:26 PM
Myself, I always thought it was Little Planet's thing to have a unique flow of time, and when you dropped off or got off it, you would still be in the present.
How is this affected by the way that the second act always transitions directly into a future in the third act? Given that we're restored to the present between the first two acts as well, is there some other kind of chaotic spatio-temporal flow at work here, and that each area exists in a self-contained time bubble that can only be accessed at certain chronological positions? (Well, the real answer is that it's all gameplay - you start the first and second acts in the present as a kind of default, so that your explorations in one act don't impact your position in the next, and then you shift to the future for the third act to show the overall effect of your adventuring thus far.)
I always that it was because of some sort of temporal distortion that automatically brings Sonic to the Present or Future when he passes a certain point. So yeah, that's probably it.
Edited by Bolt The Cat, 05 January 2012 - 07:06 PM.
