202 replies to this topic

[Komodin]

....Please tell me who is THE Shadow please, because it sounds you treat them as two different characters.

Oh, he's that dude who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Oh, he's that dude who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

Dohohohoho

[iVYRAVE]

As an ex-Shadow fangirl I would like to see him more in the games. The problem is if he stayed dead then he would become another 'Mighty the Armadillo'.
SEGA didn't bring back Shadow and give him his own game for sh**ts and giggles, from what I remember reading it was some of the fans requested he came back and SEGA needed to experiment as gamer's tastes were evolving (e.g. FPS becoming more increasingly popular), they couldn't just give Sonic a gun as that would be suicide, so why not give it to a character who, out of all the available characters, was the most likely to be seen with such a weapon?
I could argue too about why Mephiles was more interested in Shadow rather than the others, but I could be typing all night (In a nutshell I think Shadow is one of the characters who are more easily manipulated, plus with the added bonus as one of the more powerful characters it would make far more sense for Mephiles, but I digress)
As for Shadow's roles in future games I would like to see as someone who has some influence over the story, but not just there 'because GUN said so'. Make him part of an interesting plot point SEGA, He still has quite some potential to be interesting.

Edited by iVYRAVE, 21 February 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[Azure Yakuzu]

As an ex-Shadow fangirl I would like to see him more in the games. The problem is if he stayed dead then he would become another 'Mighty the Armadillo'.
SEGA didn't bring back Shadow and give him his own game for sh**ts and giggles, from what I remember reading it was some of the fans requested he came back and SEGA needed to experiment as gamer's tastes were evolving (e.g. FPS becoming more increasingly popular), they couldn't just give Sonic a gun as that would be suicide, so why not give it to a character who, out of all the available characters, was the most likely to be seen with such a weapon?
I could argue too about why Mephiles was more interested in Shadow rather than the others, but I could be typing all night (In a nutshell I think Shadow is one of the characters who are more easily manipulated, plus with the added bonus as one of the more powerful characters it would make far more sense for Mephiles, but I digress)
As for Shadow's roles in future games I would like to see as someone who has some influence over the story, but not just there 'because GUN said so'. Make him part of an interesting plot point SEGA, He still has quite some potential to be interesting.

Like Verte said, Shadow had too much focus. It was fine in his game because the story was about him and finding his past, but in 06 its inexcusable, Shadow has more connection with the main villain(And by extension the whole plot) than Sonic himself does, whom doesn't even learn of Mephiles existence even after he's been defeated, Sonic literally had no relevance in a game with his name on it, there's a problem with that. Unless the plot is about Shadow, there's no reason why he should have even more focus than the main character in his own series. If Shadow truly needs that much focus and attention, then he should get his own series instead of stealing the spotlight away from the characters who deserve/need it(i.e. Sonic and his supporting cast).

[Indigo Rush]

Oh Shadow. You were once one of my favorite characters, but now... argh.

When people think of you, they think of... THIS.



I think Shadow should stay a freelance agent for GUN or some other important position. Maybe he can pull a "Mighty" and go around seeing the world in the meantime, since he never really got to experience it. I mean, wasn't that an important plot point for him in Sonic Adventure 2?

For his personality... it's kind of tough to place that. He played the whole egotistical and dark rival bit before his revelation near the end of SA2, turned into a more sympathetic hero at the end of that game, became the angsty anti-hero with a dark past during Heroes and his own game, and since then... he's simply been a side character who, when featured, acts like an egotistical tool and not much else.

I mean, look at how he talks and his overal attitude here:



Like... okay. I'm fine with that personality. No problems there. But he's been so inconsistent that I don't really know HOW he should act.

So... alright. Shadow can be an apathetic jerk, but also chivalrous when he's needed to be. I understand that he's left the whole Maria and ARK thing in the past, but... argh. Whatever. Just be a consistent anti-hero and I'm satisfied.

As for his actual abilities, a general affinity with Chaos abilities works just fine. Limited abilities without an emerald, more power when he does have one. Seems simple enough, right? Chaos spears, some teleportation abilities, something akin to the Cyan Laser powerup for the sake of a unique gameplay gimmick. Whatever. As long as he isn't simply a Sonic clone, I'm good.

And drop the fire-arms. Please.

[Azure Yakuzu]

I don't think even Sega know what they want Shadow's personality to be ever since his game ended.


06=Stoic soldier focused on business

Colors DS= Stealth mentor to Sonic of sorts

Free Riders= Egotistical jackass

Generations= wants to fight Sonic for...some reason.


Its annoying, especially since its not hard to build a personality based on what's already happened to him.

[Scar]

I don't think even Sega know what they want Shadow's personality to be ever since his game ended.


06=Stoic soldier focused on business

Colors DS= Stealth mentor to Sonic of sorts

Free Riders= Egotistical jackass

Generations= wants to fight Sonic for...some reason.


Its annoying, especially since its not hard to build a personality based on what's already happened to him.

Shadow wanted to fight Sonic in Generations because that's what he was supposed to do in the game.
All the vs. Character fights in Gens had ropey reasons behind the fight, but that wasn't the point of it, so I wouldn't really count him in Gens.

Other than that I'm pretty sure that they're feeling around for what would work for Shadow in the future and may well end of testing a couple different character directions and gauging response or just seeing how it works out in the end. They'll probably stick to something they find that works, like the did with the Unleashed gameplay design.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

And drop the fire-arms. Please.

I'm okay with him having a sniper rifle just to be a prick from 5 miles away.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Shadow wanted to fight Sonic in Generations because that's what he was supposed to do in the game.
All the vs. Character fights in Gens had ropey reasons behind the fight, but that wasn't the point of it, so I wouldn't really count him in Gens.

Yeah, but that's from a gameplay standpoint, in which its completely acceptable.But I'm speaking from a narrative standpoint, there's no real reason for them to be fighting each other other than "because the game said so." which is kind of a shallow reason to be honest.

[Bot Sweet]

Be more Goddamn Batmanesqe. Less of a egotistical tool who gets but hurt because he's not the ultimate. Mostly like is Sonic X incarnation, but more ties to his Sonic 06 and Free Riders personality.

[Darth InVaders]

As for his actual abilities, a general affinity with Chaos abilities works just fine. Limited abilities without an emerald, more power when he does have one. Seems simple enough, right? Chaos spears, some teleportation abilities, something akin to the Cyan Laser powerup for the sake of a unique gameplay gimmick. Whatever. As long as he isn't simply a Sonic clone, I'm good.

Unless you're talking Archie (which is the only Sonic canon that has the Chaos Force), Shadow cannot use Chaos Control without an Emerald... not even a limited Chaos Control - the definition of Chaos Control is the ability to use [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space (points to my thread that proved it again http://board.sonicst...537#entry378537 )

Edited by Darth InVaders, 22 February 2012 - 04:41 AM.

[DuraV]

With that character’s life, powers, and back story being so unnecessarily confusing and peppered with comas, blackouts, mind alteration, and tomatoes in mirrors, one must wonder if he can even keep track of any of it himself.

Heck, he's probably convinced himself he's still in a coma. If he wants an ability hard enough, it comes true!

[Indigo Rush]

Unless you're talking Archie (which is the only Sonic canon that has the Chaos Force), Shadow cannot use Chaos Control without an Emerald... not even a limited Chaos Control - the definition of Chaos Control is the ability to use [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space (points to my thread that proved it again http://board.sonicst...537#entry378537 )

No emerald here...



Or here.

He can obviously teleport without an emerald.

[Darth InVaders]

*VIDEO Sonic06: Shadow's story opening*

No emerald here...

*VIDEO Shadow's game: opening promo*

Or here.

He can obviously teleport without an emerald.

You didn't look at my Chaos Emeralds & Chaos Control thread since you didn't bother to answer any of my points - most importantly being the zillions of official quotes that define Chaos Control as the ability to use [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space, which means no Chaos Emeralds (or a suitable substitute) no Chaos Control

But to answer your points:
The Sonic06 video in question has many issues with it making it argumentative
* For one, Shadow does not call his move like he often does with his first Chaos Control (I am aware that Shadow does not need to call out "Chaos Control" to use the ability - I'm pointing out that, because he does not, there are possible alternatives such as a "Quick Step" like dash of super speed)
* Secondly, the CG of Sonic06 was produced by several companies that Sonic Team hired, not an in-house team (according to the credits, those companies are: Aoki Prod., Blur Studio, Inc., Shirogumi Inc., Foro Grafico Co. Ltd., Gemba Inc.) - this creates a huge opportunity for communication to get screwed up, especially in a game with as many mistakes as this one
* Speaking of mistakes and contradictions: Sonic06 CONTRADICTS Chaos Control without Emeralds by having Shadow say "With a Chaos Emerald's power, I control time and space" later in the same game; so he actually says that the Chaos Emerald grants him the power to use his ability later in the SAME GAME - also the absolute messiness of Sonic06: an actual BLOOPER makes it into the game (where a voice actor reads a line incorrectly, then corrects himself), NPCs cannot correctly direct Shadow's character to his Wave Ocean entrance (they say it's by the entrance to New City which is not even on the same island and is quite far away)
So basically this is extremely argumentative and thus weak evidence (unlike the zillions of quotes that define Chaos Control as using Emeralds' power, which need Emeralds or suitable substitutes to get some)

And the Shadow opening promo is not even evidence: it's an opening promo showing events that had not even happened yet, Shadow got his first Emerald almost immediately and had them for most of the game - saying this is evidence is saying the Black Arms invaded and Shadow fought them before they even met in the first actual cutscene

Edited by Darth InVaders, 22 February 2012 - 06:39 AM.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

You didn't look at my Chaos Emeralds & Chaos Control thread since you didn't bother to answer any of my points - most importantly being the zillions of official quotes that define Chaos Control as the ability to use [the power of] the Chaos Emeralds to warp time and space, which means no Chaos Emeralds (or a suitable substitute) no Chaos Control

I'm pretty sure it's been long established that it is possible for him to use Chaos Control without an emerald; the lack of an emerald makes his use of the abilities less powerful, or in this case only capable of teleporting a short distance.

In fact, I recall Black Doom stating that the Chaos Emeralds mainly amplify that power in ShTH.

[Darth InVaders]

I'm pretty sure it's been long established that it is possible for him to use Chaos Control without an emerald; the lack of an emerald makes his use of the abilities less powerful, or in this case only capable of teleporting a short distance.

In fact, I recall Black Doom stating that the Chaos Emeralds mainly amplify that power in ShTH.

Black Doom never said anything about zero Emeralds... he only explained his plan and why he needed all 7 Emeralds for his plan to work... his quote works perfectly fine with needing an Emerald to be at least within the vicinity to draw power from to power Chaos Control

[Indigo Rush]

I think it's funny that you're trying to prove a solid consistency in the Sonic series, with Shadow no less.

Shadow can teleport in Sonic Battle. No emerald there. I don't see why you're so uptight about that.

Besides, as Diogenes said in that very topic you linked me to:

So considering how much time Gerald spent researching the emeralds and Chaos Control, it's not unreasonable to think Shadow has some mechanism, be it biological, mechanical, or whatever, to create chaos energy.

Is that so difficult to accept?

Edited by Indigo Rush, 22 February 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[Grimchi3f]

First thing that needs to be done to make Shadow better:

Get rid of Kirk Thornton...

Honestly, that guy is terrible at voicing Shadow ("You've got this Sonic!"). Unless he gets better, I really wish they'd bring back Griffith (probably not gonna happen but here's hoping..).

If they do that, Shadow will be a ton better and I'll respect him again. (I think that Shadow was best in 06 tbh, mostly due to his voice)

[Hogfather]

First thing that needs to be done to make Shadow better:

Get rid of Kirk Thornton...

Honestly, that guy is terrible at voicing Shadow ("You've got this Sonic!"). Unless he gets better, I really wish they'd bring back Griffith (probably not gonna happen but here's hoping..).

So... sack someone based on one whole line of dialogue...

I guess pointing out that all the character VA's since Sonic Adventure tend to get better with each passing game is a tad pointless? Or that voice acting doesn't have too much to do with the characters actual placement in the game?

[Indigo Rush]

So we've moved from hating Griffith to wanting him back.

Love ya, fanbase.

Kirk sounds more like SA2 Shadow than Griffith ever did. I don't see how one line (which I don't see what the problem is with it in the first place) is enough to destroy the reputation of a voice actor.

Edited by Indigo Rush, 22 February 2012 - 06:18 PM.