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"Dolphins are people too," say Scientists

Dolphins scientists self-awareness

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#1 Patticus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:34 PM

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"Man [has] always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars, and so on - while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reason." - Douglas Adams

Dolphins should be treated as non-human "persons", with their rights to life and liberty respected, scientists meeting in Canada have been told.

Experts in philosophy, conservation and animal behaviour want support for a Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans.
They believe dolphins and whales are sufficiently intelligent to justify the same ethical considerations as humans.
Recognising their rights would mean an end to whaling and their captivity, or their use in entertainment.


The move was made at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in Vancouver, Canada, the world's biggest science conference.

It is based on years of research that has shown dolphins and whales have large, complex brains and a human-like level of self-awareness.

This has led the experts to conclude that although non-human, dolphins and whales are "people" in a philosophical sense, which has far-reaching implications.

'Self-aware'

Ethics expert Prof Tom White, from Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles, author of In Defence of Dolphins: The New Moral Frontier, said dolphins were "non-human persons".

"A person needs to be an individual. If individuals count, then the deliberate killing of individuals of this sort is ethically the equivalent of deliberately killing a human being.

Intelligent cetacean behaviour

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  • A member of a group of orcas, or killer whales, in Patagonia had a damaged jaw and could not feed. The elderly whale was fed and kept alive by its companions.
  • Dolphins taking part in an experiment had to press one of two levers to distinguish between sounds, some of which were very similar. By pressing a third lever, they were able to tell the researchers they wanted to "pass" on a particular test because it was too hard. "When you place dolphins in a situation like that they respond in exactly the same way humans do," said Dr Lori Marino. "They are accessing their own minds and thinking their own thoughts."
  • A number of captive dolphins were rewarded with fish in return for tidying up their tank. One of them ripped up a large paper bag, hid away the pieces, and presented them one at a time to get multiple rewards.
  • In Iceland, killer whales and fishermen have been known to work together. The whales show the fishermen where to lay their nets, and in return are allowed to feed on part of the catch. Then they lead the fleet to the next fishing ground.


"We're saying the science has shown that individuality - consciousness, self-awareness - is no longer a unique human property. That poses all kinds of challenges."

The declaration, originally agreed in May 2010, contains the statements "every individual cetacean has the right to life", "no cetacean should be held in captivity or servitude, be subject to cruel treatment, or be removed from their natural environment", and "no cetacean is the property of any state, corporation, human group or individual".

It adds: "The rights, freedoms and norms set forth in this declaration should be protected under international and domestic law."

Psychologist Dr Lori Marino, from Emory University in Atlanta, told how scientific advances had changed the view of the cetacean brain.

She said: "We went from seeing the dolphin/whale brain as being a giant amorphous blob that doesn't carry a lot of intelligence and complexity to not only being an enormous brain but an enormous brain with an enormous amount of complexity, and a complexity that rivals our own."

Dolphins had a sense of self which could be tested by the way they recognise themselves in mirrors, she added.

"When you get up in the morning and look in the mirror and know that's you, you have a sense of 'you'," said Dr Marino.

"They have a similar sense. They can look in a mirror and say, 'Hey, that's me'."


http://www.bbc.co.uk.../world-17116882


It's certainly a very interesting viewpoint. Scientists are saying that Dolphins and Whales have demonstrated a similar level of self-awareness to that of humans in some cases, and that they should be granted 'people' status and granted all the rights afforded to creatures with that status. Basically, it would mean that no more dolphins/whales could be held in captivity, and it would become a much more serious crime to hunt them (just as serious as if I were to go hunting people of a different ethnicity to myself). One has to wonder, however, how Norway and Japan would react if other countries suddenly started granting Cetaceans almost human levels of legal rights.

Remember, it isn't just animal rights activists saying this, these are people who actually know what they're talking about. Scientists with years of research to back up their viewpoint and now presenting their view at the largest science convention in the world.

#2 Tornado

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:40 PM

Already posted in the PETA thread, as an FYI.

Edited by Gilda, 23 February 2012 - 06:40 PM.


#3 JezMM

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:42 PM

Probably will come as no surprise that this is very fascinating to me. The co-operation between the whales and fisherman in particular is amazing. There are so few animals that show off such foresight and partially selfless behaviour.

#4 Patticus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:43 PM

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Already posted in the PETA thread, as an FYI.


I think it warrants a separate topic, because I don't think it should just be lumped in with PETA's ongoing lunacy. This is a subject that goes far beyond PETA.

Edited by Patticus, 23 February 2012 - 06:45 PM.


#5 PSI Aqua

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:43 PM

Hehe, nice quote, Patt. Love the Hitchhicker series.

#6 King Sombrero

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:55 PM

Dolphins representin'! I wonder how long until we can actually get technology that let us hold a conversation with them.

#7 Crow the BOOLET

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:09 PM

Ehhh... I suppose its nice to see something else intelligent in nature but no one else is giving other animals any rights like this like say primates or corvids (I swear they're the smartest group of birds) but its an oh well.

Honestly I wouldn't trust a dolphin. They may look cute but they are the jackasses of the sea. Ask a shark about it.

#8 VEDJ-F

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:15 PM

(I swear they're the smartest group of birds)


Pretty sure scientific evidence has confirmed this several times by now.

Honestly I wouldn't trust a dolphin. They may look cute but they are the jackasses of the sea. Ask a shark about it.


Jackass seems a very light term for a gang rapist/murderer.

#9 Amomynous

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:20 PM

Let me note that I think that the concepts of 'personhood' and 'rights' are highly flawed ones, it's useful for law, since law works in 'black and white' (it has to so it can establish order, it's highly flawed but it's the best we can do.) and requires 'black and white' concepts like 'rights' and 'personhood'.

Dolphins do not come under law, if they are given rights, they are placed under law and have to be held accountable under our laws.

Outside the law, I think concepts of personhood and rights are quite useless, in nature there is no such thing as a 'person' and putting a line between what animals are 'beasts' and which animals are 'people' is just as innacurate as designating every colour on the spectrum to be either 'black' or 'white', and that's putting it lightly, becuase black and white actually exist, we're all animals in the end.

It just seems logical that in reality some lives are more important than others. This falls in a spectrum, not in designated catagories,and we are not good judges of this, that said, it seems dolphins have some sort of kinship to us through likenesses that even fellow apes don't seem to share, and they should be respected for that fact.

Edited by Mysterics, 23 February 2012 - 07:36 PM.


#10 y cant solkia crawl

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:28 PM

Does this mean I can marry a dolphin with out being criticized?

MY DREAM HAS COME TRUE.

#11 BW199148

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:41 PM



THOSE BASTARDS NUKE 'EM.Posted Image


Seriously, I don't think they should be classed as 'people' but yes they should be protected more so that they don't become are new overlords.

#12 Generations (Chaos Warp)

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:56 PM

They should definitely be protected more, because they are quite human-like in a lot of ways. Not all the way to the extent of humans though, I think they still qualify as animals.

#13 Swift

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:19 PM

Well that's certainly more professional than bringing them to court.

Dolphins being near-human I expected. I didn't expect whales to be included. They have been in trouble for a while due to hunting and poaching though, so I suppose this will help them out a little more. The experts don't seem to be asking for too much right now, either, just higher protectionism for some of the more intelligent creatures on our planet. I'm fine with that.

#14 Metal Gear (sting)RAY

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:56 PM

Not that dolphins aren't intelligent, but if they're smart enough to deserve involvement in our legal system, why don't they already have one of their own? If that Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans is put into play, how many dolphin diplomats would be there to read it and approve it? If a dolphin kills a human, would they receive a sentence at least similar to the human's in the reciprocal scenario? And how many dolphins would be on the jury? Not that I don't think dolphins deserve protection from human actions and byproducts in their ecosystem or general carelessness and cruelty towards them, but evidence of intelligence and self-awareness alone isn't enough to merit quasi-equal coverage by our law, in my opinion; if it was, then we could grant the same rights to any machine that passes the Turing Test.

Edited by SuperStingray, 23 February 2012 - 08:56 PM.


#15 Emmett L. Brown

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:58 PM

Considering that dolphins have been known to rape and kill members of their own species at the drop of a hat, I have to agree with this article. That does sound a lot like people. We're not always nice, and having free will seperate from overriding instinctive responses doesn't always mean we do nice things.

Yes, I know I'm Norwegian, but I'm not happy about the whale hunting thing. I think of them like elephants, which are also too intelligent for me too feel comfortable about eating.

#16 Patticus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:22 PM

Not that dolphins aren't intelligent, but if they're smart enough to deserve involvement in our legal system, why don't they already have one of their own?



I don't quite see the connection between self-awareness / sentience / sapience and having a legal system comparable to human efforts. Eastern North American native justice systems were always (to our knowledge) based around reciprocity and respect between people and other-than-human persons (spirits, deities etc), and taking care of the victim rather than punishing the offender. They were systems entirely alien to the European explorers and colonists who first encountered them, as European legal systems were dedicated to the punishment of offenders and the eternal hellfire brought by sin, rather than seeing to it that the victim was repaid/healed/etc sufficiently.

If mankind can develop such wildly diverse legal structures within itself, who is to say that any potential Cetacean legal system would even appear to be a legal system to us?

Not that I don't think dolphins deserve protection from human actions and byproducts in their ecosystem or general carelessness and cruelty towards them, but evidence of intelligence and self-awareness alone isn't enough to merit quasi-equal coverage by our law, in my opinion; if it was, then we could grant the same rights to any machine that passes the Turing Test.


Boy, I'd hate to see your opinions on the treatment of sapient alien life when we do finally make contact with it/them.

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#17 Gerk Marenghis Darkplace

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:38 PM

So basically the scientists want to elevate the position of Cretaceans above the other animals but below humans because of their intelegence?

I dunno, I just don't see them reaching that far yet. I don't see the gorillas get this sort of special treatment.

#18 Cola

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:44 PM

I KNEW IT

THANK YOU HITCH-HIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY

No, but seriously, this is pretty cool!

#19 Patticus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:49 PM

So basically the scientists want to elevate the position of Cretaceans above the other animals but below humans because of their intelegence?


It's self awareness, which is completely different to intelligence.

#20 Noir

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

Every single time the prospect of a species besides humans being considered "people" comes up, I think of the Mulefa from His Dark Materials. I think Pullman did a really fantastic job of painting what it means to be a person through Mary's descriptions of them.

Personally I think this is very interesting and more likely than not, something I would support. If research has truly shown that dolphins have the same or even an extremely close level of self-awareness as humans then I feel like this would be great.

I don't honestly see how someone would argue that we should allow hunting and captivation of cetaceans because they don't have a legal system or because ours couldn't apply perfectly to them. The matters of what this would do to economies and whether it could be properly enforced are valid points, but past that I don't see a single thing about this that's silly or overreaching.




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