14 replies to this topic

[Nintendoga]

Basically a What-If or What they should do Topic.

When people talk about "What Sonic Adventure 3 should be like" or Adventure gameplay should come back" , they usually think of or refer to the mech shooting of Tails, the Treasure hunting of Knuckles, or the Metal Gear Sonic style of Amy Rose. From the gun shooting/vehicles of Shadow to the Telekinesis troubles of Silver, People usually hate these styles from drifting too far away from Sonic. They want so that when other characters are playable in Sonic games, they want them to play as Sonic, however using their unique abilities (Flying, Drilling, Fishing) to finish the level differently or change between alternate paths ala Sonic 3&K. This would be the logical step in the gameplay direction of the series.

However, let's say Sonic Team for some strange reason, did make another Adventure Style/ Genre-Roulette Sonic game. But, what if they didn't use the mech shooting or treasure hunting genres? What if they used some fan ideas or something else unique and different. That's where I want to ask, what would you change a character's gameplay genre into? Would you keep Knuckles Treasure hunting stages, or make them resemble the Werehog's gameplay? Or Keep Tails' mech shooting (for whatever godly reason), or have him fly around in big open stages? Make Eggman control a robot similar to the one from the Unleashed intro, and whatnot, you get my point. Cmon now, show me your creative side!

[Diogenes]

Before I start I'd just like to clarify that I don't actually want any of these to happen. But for the sake of discussion...

Knuckles: Some kind of combat is the obvious addition, but I wouldn't want it to play like the werehog. Instead of having a big list of moves with complicated inputs for chipping away at high-HP enemies, give him a few easy to use moves and put him up against fairly weak enemies. Some punches, maybe a shockwave, maybe a grab and throw, whatever. Mix in some of Knuckles' usual moves (gliding and climbing for movement, maybe a digging attack like the one he had in Battle?) and keep the player moving through the level rather than standing around fighting groups of enemies.

Rouge: I wish I had saved that time I wrote up a whole thing on stealth-based gameplay for Rouge so I could just copy-paste or link it. In short, keep the player moving (this is going to be a running theme), don't treat being spotted as instant failure, give the player clear indications of how alert enemies are and what will make them notice you...

Espio: Take Rouge's gameplay, remove flight/gliding, replace any spy gadgets with ninja equivalents, add some sort of limited invisibility/camouflage. That grappling hook thing in Generations is a nice idea.

Amy: Use the hammer. I don't have a fully defined concept, but the hammer is the core of Amy's unique abilities. Use it for combat (the basic overhead smash, maybe something like Tails' upgraded tail attack in SA (as opposed to her utterly useless hammer spin from the same game)), use it for movement (the hammer jump, maybe that spinning hover from Heroes), use it for puzzle solving (hit switches, smash obstacles, etc). And again, keep the player moving; Amy may not be anywhere near as fast as Sonic, but she should still be quick and agile.

That's all I got for now.

[Thirsty Pocket]

Tails
I think Tails style in Adventure 1 was perfect for him, just beat Sonic to the goal, using the same route, but taking all the short cuts you can. Perhaps they could allow him to fly longer, and faster, but remove the silly "Air boosters" apart from the occasional red/rainbow ring that are in Sonic's levels these days.


Knuckles
Play similar to Sonic, sans the boost, but with occasional bits of climbing and smashing paths open. Small focus on bits of Combat, but base it on combos, and allow Knuckles to move seamlessly between his targets, kind of like Batman in the Arkham Asylum/City games.

Amy
I like the idea they had for her in Sonic Adventure 1. She was always on the run from something. I'd like to see it re-imagined into something more fast paced. No more of the slow "find the blocks and put them in the holes" or "try the different corridors until you find the switch" ...just constant fleeing and smashing what gets in your way with your hammer.

[Azookara]

Tails

Think SA1, but with rolling and tail-whipping on a seperate button. Tails can move around freely and do everything he's always been able to. But even with that, there has to be a way to differentiate him enough from Sonic. Due to being the "techie / pilot" character he is now, though, Tails could have an "Anti-Robotnik Corp Reciever" remote device, which can be a multi-functional tool for his gameplay.

Maybe he could make some of Eggman's badniks defunct with it, then hijack these badniks via his remote reciever, and use them for creative puzzle elements? And you know, sometimes Tails could have Tornado sub-games like (a more solid version of) those Sky Chase levels in SA1.

Knuckles

Once again, take a page from SA1. Knuckles' controls are just about the same, although the punching and rolling are on seperate buttons, and thus can be combined to make sequenced combo moves. Feature the treasure-hunting gimmick just as always; but portray it in a streamlined fashion. Stages would progress just like your average Sonic level, but you still have three emerald shards (or ancient relics or whatever story macguffins) to find.

The levels segment from normal Sonic fare to enclosed areas; none too big, too small, nor too obviously placed as pattern in the stage. These enclosed areas bring in more emphasis on exploration where you look for the macguffins. You will not have an emerald radar until Knuckles appears in the area and "senses a strange energy is near". After you find the one in that area you are allowed to progress, and you go back to Sonic-like level design, continuing this pattern until you collect the third macguffin (and thus being the level's end).

Amy

Amy would basically be a faster version of her SA1 self, and would experience more stop-and-go platforming and close combat than most characters (although of course still with the Sonic fundamentals like loops, rings, slopes, etc).

She also would rely heavily on her hammer, and use it commonly to both defend herself and as a momentum tool. Amy, since being a generally weak and superpower-less character, could be considered as one where more badniks appear and gang up on her, which becomes her focus as she fends herself off from some ever looming hordes of badniks using her Piko Piko Hammer. She could also do slight momentum platforming with her hammer-vaulting move.

Shadow

I'm thinking Gamma. No foolin'. Shadow could move in two gears; one being his inline strolling, and his other being a rocket propelling movement, very similar to the animation for Shadow boosting in Generations (minus the aura and looking like he's totally flying). Jumping in the air, Shadow can do close-range homing attacks, but generally without anything in range, he can skate hover temporarily. Shadow can also roll and do something like the rocket accel slide when tapping repeatedly whilst doing the roll..

But the main thing to make a point of is how Shadow fights for the main part. Make him shoot things! And not with guns, but with Chaos Spears. Shadow can lock-on and blast up hordes of enemy swarms with Chaos Spears. It'd be really cool, and like said, it'd play a lot like Gamma's shooting.

Blaze

For her, I was thinking you take the more "modern" gameplay decisions and try shifting them into Adventure style gameplay. Blaze has a boost of sorts, but think of it more like it came from SSX. Let's say that it'd be more based around an accelerating boost, where she encases herself in fire whilst doing it, but there's a quick-draining gauge with it, that can be replenished with a trick system very similar to the one in Generations! The only thing about this is that instead of making it specific to rainbow rings or ramps, Blaze could be able to do these acrobatic tricks any time she goes airborne while vulnerable (as in, without being in pirouette).

And on that note, Blaze can pirouette instead of spin; so she does that rather than roll, and she can also double jump and do a quick-reaction homing attack just like her own from 06.

Rouge

Like Diogenes said, stealthy gameplay. Possibly a variation of Knuckles' gameplay I mentioned earlier; although based around not being seen and the items being in the open, which would make a very interesting game dynamic. It'd almost be like a "Catwoman" kind of gameplay; where you do a Sonic-y take on "sneaking in and stealing the jewels without getting caught"; even though the purpose behind it could bend around the story; whether related to helping Knuckles, stealing jewels, or government classified information gathering.

Espio

Espio would be the opposite end of where Rouge's gameplay is a mix of; no treasure hunting, just stealth. Espio would be based around using your invisibility powers, ninja skills, and strategic thinking to evade attention and make a run for it to the end. Epsio wouldn't have an air ability to speak of, but he could have ninja blades (or shuriken) on him to propel at enemies.

I'd also personally bring back his ability to walk on nearly any surface, thus being able to defy gravity.

Edited by Azukara, 29 February 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[Azookara]

I know this is technically a double post, but I was wondering if there was any more discussion to be made from this topic. Any ideas on alternate gameplay styles; critiques and et cetera at other people's ideas?

[Chaos Warp]

I always though Knuckles could be a faster version of the Werehog with gliding and exploration in place of the stretchy-arms thing.

[Azure Yakuzu]

I know this is technically a double post, but I was wondering if there was any more discussion to be made from this topic. Any ideas on alternate gameplay styles; critiques and et cetera at other people's ideas?

But that sounds hard...oh fine:



Tails:
Similar to Sa1, but somewhat faster. His flight would last for about 5 seconds as to not make it game breaking(Or just have more constrictive level design, but everyone hates that so meh). His gameplay would have him use several different gadgets and doohickeys similar to Tails Adventure. Nothing too major, maybe some bombs, a power glove, and an arm cannon in addition to his traditional Tail attack, which can be used to unlock hidden secrets within the level.

Knuckles:
First off, he'll be fast, I'm sick of him being slow. The action button will have him do a variety of punches similar to the ones in Sa2; he'll be able to burrow his way through different parts of the level and access paths that neither Sonic or Tails can take, he can lift certain objects over his head to break through even more parts of the level. And if there needs to be a fetch quest, it will be optional and not a requirement for the main game.

Amy:
Somewhat slower than Sonic, not too much though probably Knuckles` speed from S3&K, but still reasonably fast. Basically how she played in Sa1, with probably a few more moves she had from games like Advance 2 so she's not completely limited.


Shadow:
He's basically the Zero to Sonic's Mega Man X, plays exactly the same as him, homing attack, boosting and all but with other parts of his moveset emphasized over Sonic's, specifically his Chaos Powers. His speed will be about the same as Sonic's, but somewhat less controllable, Homing Attack has a shorter range than Sonic's, and boost burns meter a lot faster. Chaos Spear will start off as a simple projectile than can be upgraded as you progress through the game turning it into scatter shot, Chaos Blast serves as a one time use move once you've gotten enough meter, and Chaos Control temporarily slows down time and also runs on meter.

Basically: Sonic covers the most ground with his speed, Tails requires thinking, Knuckles is a bit more about exploration, Amy is about skill, and Shadow is more destructive.


I'll do more later.

Edited by Shadic Claus, 06 March 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[Diogenes]

His gameplay would have him use several different gadgets and do hickeys similar to Tails Adventure.

"Doohickeys". "Do hickeys" is something entirely different and I was kind of afraid of where you were going with this until I figured out what you meant.

Amy:
Somewhat slower than Sonic, not too much though probably Knuckles` speed from S3&K,

Knuckles was exactly as fast as Sonic in S3&K...

[Shadow's] speed will be about the same as Sonic's, but somewhat less controllable,

When is "controls worse" ever a good idea?

[Azure Yakuzu]

"Doohickeys". "Do hickeys" is something entirely different and I was kind of afraid of where you were going with this until I figured out what you meant.

That's actually a word?

Knuckles was exactly as fast as Sonic in S3&K...

Really? I thought he was a bit slower?

When is "controls worse" ever a good idea?

When it requires more skill on the player's part, basically how Luigi is more uncontrollable than Mario.

[New Year's Miru]

Sonic: bring back rolling and change.up the homing attack as well.

Tails: Flying mechanics. He can also tail.attack.

Knuckles: gliding to climb walls, digging. Treasure hunting is optional.

Shadow: Chaos powers. Chaos spear is used as an attack. He can also.use chaos blast.

Amy: no spinning. She uses her hammer. She can bounce on springs, flip, and more. No running from zero.

Blaze: Fire immunity, hovering, fire manipulation.

Espio: runs on walls and ceilings. He can also grapple with his tounge. Shruiken projectiles, stealth and invisibilty.

Cream: No spin. Bounces like a rabbit. Cheese as missile. Flying weaker than Tails.

Rouge: No spin. Kicking moves. Stealth. Bombs.

Omega: Slow, but strong. Claws and flamethrower for attack.

Vector: slow.but strong. Airdash and projectiles.

Silver: PK.moves. Grabbing.

Charmy: Flying about, stinging foes.

[tsz11]

Tails: Similar to his SA1 gameplay, but he should use some of his technology to assist.him, like in Tails' Adventure, like Bombs and stuff.

Amy: Along with the Hammer, I would try to find a way to incorporate the Tarot Card and Dowsing thing. And She should be able to Spin because every game after SA1 (Adventure/Advance 1) She's been able to Spin attack, Roll, and use the Homing Attack.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Adding onto what Dio and Azukara said about Espio, let's not forget about the fact that he has a long ass chameleon tongue. You know? That thing Espio had but everyone seemed to have forgotten it existed. He could be like a fast running ninja Spider-Man using his tongue to grapple and swing Spider-Man 2 style.

[Mike]

I would have Knuckles have a fishing minigame similar to the one in Minecraft.

Blaze would of course have a Yu-gi-oh styled card battle minigame.

Tails would have a Dice Poker minigame similar to the one in The Witcher.

And Cream would have a minigame inspired by that one internet flash game, because Spax deserves it.

[Paradoxical Paradise- Left]

Adding onto what Dio and Azukara said about Espio, let's not forget about the fact that he has a long ass chameleon tongue.

Have we ever actually seen him use it though? Wouldn't swinging on your tounge be incredibly painful? Isn't the whole "frog tounge" thing a bit overused, anyway? A grapple would perhaps, be more orginal and more in tune with his ninja character.

The whole tounge thing would probably work like this:
Vector: Okay, Espio, use your tounge to swing over there!
Espio: What the hell? No way! I'm not sticking my tounge to some dirty old wall! It's unhygenic! I could catch some horrible invection or something!
Vector: Just do it Espio.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

Have we ever actually seen him use it though?

He uses it a fair bit in Sonic the Fighters. Hardly a mainstream game, but it's still a case in point.

Wouldn't swinging on your tounge be incredibly painful?

Tell that to Yoshi. And for a series where the main cast of characters are anthropomorphic animals with special powers it hardly seems out of place. Where talking about a series where a hedeghog can run at the speed of sound without getting any kind of leg cramp or friction burn or without his ears exploding everytime he causes a sonicboom and a fox that can fly by rotating its tails. It hardly seems unreasonable then for a chameleon to make use of its tongue to do crazy shit.

Isn't the whole "frog tounge" thing a bit overused, anyway? A grapple would perhaps, be more orginal and more in tune with his ninja character.

Comparative to a grappling hook hardly. A grappling hook is just a generic item that's not only used and abused by ninjas but also by loads of other things. Using his tongue would actually help to focus on one of his potential natural abilities. It's a bit like Tails with his dummy ring bombs. Despite the fact that (not taking into account the slow down they cause in the games they're in) technically as a weapon they would be more efficient, using his tails to attack just seems more fitting and satisfying. It's just nicer to see these super powered animals make use of their own abilities.