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Chase Bosses


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#21 ChaosSupremeSonîc

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:35 AM

But what do "traditional" bosses have that chase bosses don't? They're fine in 2D, sure, but I fail to see the point in reverting back to arena-style battles once we bring the third dimension into play; they don't really offer anything that the chase bosses can't, and are a lot less exciting by definition.

They offer control, which - although still fun in their own right - are lacking in the current Chase-based fights. That may not sound like much, but I can see a good reason behind it.

Traditional bosses allowed you to attack them at a stand still or in motion whenever you had an opening. The chase boss fights we have throw away half of that and keep you running at all times, and to make it even more of an issue you're not even making the character run as the game is keeping you in motion for you while you have the option to press the boost, jump or quick step.

The Egg Dragoon fight in Generations was fun. But I would love to have been allowed to come to a stop and run the opposite direction to catch Eggman from behind. Heck, I would also have loved to have been able to run on the walls and ceilngs during that fight, and we know Sonic is more than capable of doing so.

I'm not saying that chase bosses are perfect and don't require improvement; I just mean that any problems with them are problems with the 3D games' approach to bosses in general. A return to arena-based fights isn't the way to go at all, because what we have now is far superior anyway.

I'd argue that we have another problem. Arena-based fights are in no way a bad way to go nor are they inferior so long as you can develop a fight just as fun as a chase based one. One flaw of the arena based fights were that they restricted your movements in where you could go; chase based fights merely stretched where you could go in a single path while taking away a segment of the player's control.

The solution? How about an arena based fight that gave you plenty of room to move around while you used your surroundings to help attack the boss? Of the top of my head, you could have a boss fight in a sphere with a number of obstacles that both the player and the boss can use to help them attack each other. The player can run on the ground and strike from below, run on the "walls" of the sphere and attack from the sides, or run all the way up to the top of the stage and cannonball on top of the enemy.

Or a chased based fight that gave you control and a more wider path so that you can turn around and flank your foe or the foe can outflank you if you're not careful. Design a boss fight something like an series of islands in the middle of a sea while chasing the boss, and instead of the boss constantly running, how about a boss that runs and stops at will so that the player isn't too pressured to keep moving forward on the water. Heck, throw some battleships and carriers in it while your at it so that the player can feel powerful blazing through their hull as they try to defeat the boss; have the wreckage be used as potential projectiles so that the player can attack from a distance.

I'm just throwing out ideas here. Other ideas were a multi-tiered cylinder for an arena, or a city layout for a chase sequence. I'm not the best when it comes to game design, but I can brainstorm some mean ideas for levels. Posted Image

My metaphor here would be this: It's not wise to buy a new car because the new one has better features when you can very well upgrade the old care so that it's works just as well. There are things to salvage or enhance.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic, 26 March 2012 - 11:45 AM.


#22 JezMM

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

I love both types to be honest, and I can understand the fatigue of constant chase bosses.


The strength of chase bosses I agree is that you're always on the move. If they were to bring back arena bosses to keep things varied, it's simple - make arena bosses where you're always on the move! Have the bosses chase YOU around the arena (Biolizard), or have an arena that is constantly changing (falling platforms?).

Bosses where you can do minor damage to them at all times if you so choose to take the risk are always good too (for all their other flaws, ShTH had this on the majority of it's bosses).


(Egg Nega Wisp was a good boss but I'm still often surprised by how much praise it gets. It was pretty much an upgraded Sand Scorpion from Secret Rings except it actually comes up to you so you can attack it. I like that you can boost into it after each hit for extra damage, but honestly that takes so little effort (unlike getting extra damage on some of the Unleashed bosses was) all it does is unsatisfyingly shorten the battle to me).

Edited by JezMM, 26 March 2012 - 11:38 AM.


#23 VEDJ-F

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

My favourite chase boss has to be this one;



The ones in Unleashed and beyond? I guess they're alright, but it does sort of seem like the bosses are made a little easy to compensate for new players who can't control Sonic's speed that well.

Edited by VEDJ-F, 26 March 2012 - 12:07 PM.


#24 Discoid

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:09 PM

They offer control, which - although still fun in their own right - are lacking in the current Chase-based fights. That may not sound like much, but I can see a good reason behind it.

Traditional bosses allowed you to attack them at a stand still or in motion whenever you had an opening. The chase boss fights we have throw away half of that and keep you running at all times, and to make it even more of an issue you're not even making the character run as the game is keeping you in motion for you while you have the option to press the boost, jump or quick step.

The Egg Dragoon fight in Generations was fun. But I would love to have been allowed to come to a stop and run the opposite direction to catch Eggman from behind. Heck, I would also have loved to have been able to run on the walls and ceilngs during that fight, and we know Sonic is more than capable of doing so.

To be honest, I don't see it as too much of a problem. Even if the game forced me to keep moving forward, I still would have done the exact same thing if I had full control of the character.

I'm just throwing out ideas here. Other ideas were a multi-tiered cylinder for an arena, or a city layout for a chase sequence. I'm not the best when it comes to game design, but I can brainstorm some mean ideas for levels. Posted Image

I, on the other hand, have a total lack of imagination that forces me to compare what we have to other games. :P

I just can't think of anything more suitable toward this series (though something like the Biolizard fight that requires a lot of movement and finesse in a closed space could work too) than what the chase bosses offer, and I'd take lack of control over dullness any day. I find the best of the chase battles to be more fun than the best of the arena battles, but the worst of the arena battles to be far worse than the chase battles.

#25 Indigo Rush

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:16 PM

I love both arena and chase fights. I think there should be a healthy mix of the two to keep up the pace and variety. Kind of like how Colors did it, though the individual bosses didn't variate all that much.

#26 Sean

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:44 PM

I hate these things. They're especially bad in the Advance games, where they function basically as they would a static arena, except you have to crawl to the boss and when you get hit, rings are harder to reclaim. So basically they're just boss battles that are hard because they take control away from you.

#27 JezMM

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:51 PM

^ That is a good point. I think they primarily worked in Unleashed and Generations because getting hit didn't equal no rings.

I think HIGH SPEED chase bosses have no place in a 2D game where you can't see ahead of you or the threat is so close there's no chance to react. See: Egg Bomber (Ice Paradise). Ugh.

#28 MarcelloF

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

Speaking of Advance 2's chase bosses, fuck the bitch slap machine.

#29 ChaosSupremeSonîc

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:05 PM

Speaking of Advance 2's chase bosses, fuck the bitch slap machine.

Hey, Sonic! What did the five fingers say to the hedgehog?
Sonic: Huh?
Eggman: Slap!
*dead*

#30 neezTHEhuman

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:46 PM

Not a fan of chase bosses in general especially the modern ones which consist of boosting and quickstep dodging followed by spamming the homing attack. Ironically however, my favorite boss battle and probably the best boss in Sonic history is a chase and that is the Labyrinth Zone boss. This boss will test your platforming skills to its limits first on dry land but also underwater as the liquid rises and alters the physics. The rising water adds tremendous urgency but go any faster at your peril as there is so little room for error and before you know it you're left facing the skewering spears and fireballs with no rings, the drowning music is playing and the water severely impeding your rate of progress. It is not just a test of your gaming skills but a psychological test; can you stay calm in such a claustrophobic environment where death stalks you from above while a watery grave is fast approaching from below.?

#31 Stocking Anarchy

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:45 AM

They're nice. It would be better if they were used in moderation, with one chase boss and a couple of arena bosses.
But I have no problem with them.

#32 TimberWolf

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:44 PM

I'm seeing a lot of "chase bosses started in Unleashed/SA2/S&K" in here.

Apparently, everyone is forgetting the greatest chase boss ever:
Posted Image

#33 MarcelloF

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:49 PM

Difference being, you don't run in a straight line the whole, nor do you have to defeat him. You just have to reach the end.

#34 Azure Yakuzu

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:57 PM

Difference being, you don't run in a straight line the whole, nor do you have to defeat him. You just have to reach the end.



"You don't win, You survive"

#35 Burnt Ash

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:58 PM

I'm seeing a lot of "chase bosses started in Unleashed/SA2/S&K" in here.

Apparently, everyone is forgetting the greatest chase boss ever:
Posted Image


Tbh, that's probably my least favorite chase boss in a Sonic game...as well as my least favorite Sonic boss. My least favorite thing about it, is after you get through the water, which in itself I found difficult to navigate (dem arrows...), you don't even get to fight the boss at all.

#36 Generations (Chaos Warp)

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:33 PM

Tbh, that's probably my least favorite chase boss in a Sonic game...as well as my least favorite Sonic boss. My least favorite thing about it, is after you get through the water, which in itself I found difficult to navigate (dem arrows...), you don't even get to fight the boss at all.

I disagree, I though it was a great test of underwater platforming skills. I don't mind not fighting him afterwards because the chase is the challenge of the boss.

#37 Burnt Ash

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:51 PM

Yeah, I can agree with that, although I still don't like the actual boss.

#38 JezMM

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:28 PM

Yeah, Labyrinth isn't a chase boss in the same way any of the others are. It can't be grouped with the likes of Egg Hammer Tank 2 or Egg Lancer or Egg Nega Wisp.

Chase bosses have to have an actual fight, an actual target that fights back. Labyrinth's boss can't be considered the same thing because you don't fight anything. That section of gameplay would be exactly the same if Eggman was absent.

Yes you CAN hit him and if you're an expert defeat him, but that's just a bonus and totally optional, not an actual fight.

The first ever chase boss in terms of the chase bosses being discussed here would be Jet Mobile from Mushroom Hill Act 2.



Calling the Labyrinth Zone a chase boss would be like calling Rooftop Run Act 2 in Generations a chase boss because you're constantly tailing the Eggman Blimp.

Edited by JezMM, 28 March 2012 - 07:30 PM.


#39 Burnt Ash

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:36 PM

Wouldn't Metal be the first chase boss?

#40 JezMM

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:37 PM

Wouldn't Metal be the first chase boss?


Nah, again there's no actual fighting. If anything I'd give it a technical term of Race Boss.




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