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Darker Atmosphere for Sonic?


BlueBlur64

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Eh, as long as it provides something substantial and appealing, I wouldn't mind.

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I'm satisfied how Sonic and his pals are doing in a not-so-dark atmosphere. Want that? Listen to Sonic Derp.....

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I think we need a balance. The characters should not take everything seriously, but it should be serious (and with the characters taking the threat seriously) when it needs to be, kind of like Unleashed and the storybook games. SA2 should be the upper limit of the darkness level and should not happen every time, and Shadow and 06 just went way to damn far.

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(Unleashed spoilers if ya haven't played it) Skip to about 3:14. See that little scene with Sonic standing in the temple/colossus, squaring off against a giant monster with the entire world at risk? I personally think that's as dark as Sonic needs to get.

And by "dark" I mean "serious." I don't mean dark as in "guns and swearing and blood and brooding anti-heroes." At its heart, the Sonic series should have a generally fun and upbeat tone. The only way I can describe it is by making it "adventurous" rather than being too far on one end of the spectrum - either trying to hard to be dark and epic (Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic '06) or too silly and kiddy (Heroes, Colors - though Colors was still good). As it's been said many times, Unleashed struck a good balance - it had funny moments, darker moments, and interesting characters. That should be the template to follow for future games.

Edited by Gregzilla
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There's a line, dude.

You've played ShTH and wondered what it would be like if Sonic had a darker atmosphere? Well sorry to break it to you but ShTH crosses the line in how dark a Sonic game should NOT be by a long shot. There are reasons why that game got low scores and it's oversaturation of what it called "dark" is one of them.

At the same time, I really doubt people who want a darker atmosphere actually have any idea what makes an effective attempt at being "dark" without the franchise looking as if it jumped the shark. It's not impossible for Sonic to have a dark atmosphere, but it's making it work that's a different ball game. Take SA2 for example. Right at the beginning of the Heroes side of the story, Sonic is cheerfully jumping out of a helicopter and snowboarding on asphalt in a San Francisco-esque city. And in various other levels, you see some of the characters traversing in rather bright settings. And this is in a game where dark element are done right.

But it didn't have your character cussing at inappropriate moments and out of the blue. It wasn't trying so hard to be serious than it was trying to tell it's story. And it definitely didn't make a parody of itself on accident. What you're looking for is how mature the series can carry its themes without going to far. SA2 gave us a conspiracy, and characters who have actually been killed/murdered without throwing it in our face like a brick. But it didn't have that until we got closer and closer to the climax. And at the end, things got more brighter, although more somber as things were finally taken care of.

I'll go outside of the series. Take the Megaman franchise. Start off at Classic and you'll see an atmosphere similar to the early Sonic series. Proceed into the X series, and things start getting edgier, with corrupted robots called "Mavericks/Irregulars" killing human beings and you going out to stop them. As soon as you hit the Zero franchise, you hit the series darkest point as you have a genocidal campaign to destroy robots to solve a city's energy crisis, the main character joining a terrorist organization to save these robots, and a post-apocalyptic world that is on the verge of death. The funny thing about this is that you don't actually realize how dark it is until you take a sharper look at it.

To wrap things up, while a darker atmosphere isn't a bad thing for Sonic, it's the way you go about making one that helps it fit without the series looking like something else. You can't just put in edgier elements and expect it to work.

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I think the balances of games like SA1 and Unleahed are about as dark as Sonic should go. To be honest I think even Adventure 2 got a bit silly with how serious it tried to be. And Shadow and 06 were more like what a kid would think is dark and serious.

Edited by Ekaje
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Also, I think people are confusing "Dark" with "Serious".

A story that's Dark, deals with much more mature themes similar to that of real life or themes that unconventional for a children's show to have; whether people agree or not, Shadow was a dark game; It deals with Genocide, murder, and the inner workings of a tortured individual, as well guns and violence. The Adventure games are dark; the former also deals with Genocide, a potential god destroying the world, and an entire city being destroyed by the end. Sa2 deals with government conspiracies, and the sanity breakdown of the main antagonist(Gerald.)

Now a story taking itself seriously is something entirely different. A story that takes itself seriously has the characters involved take each situation as if it were life and death, hardly anyone jokes and if they do its always in a sarcastic manner. Now here's where the above games differ; Shadow takes itself completely seriously, to the point where it just comes as hilarious and as such failed to make the audience care. The Adventure games, while having much more darker elements, have a much more upbeat attitude as it has the amount of cheese you'd expect from a Saturday morning cartoon, but at least knows when to take itself seriously.

The problem with games like Colors/Generations is that the story doesn't take seriously at all, yeah its funny, but it makes people care less about your plot and characters if they're treating the conflict like its a comedy session.

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Just as long as cutscenes are skippable and there's no in-level dialogue, I probably won't notice either way in the long run. Unless the graphics/levels also reflect said tone (Shadow...) in which case fuck that dark shit.

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I'd like the serious tone to be to about Unleashed and that's how far I'll go thank you. Serious sonic games just feel out of place and uninteresting. they just to me feel like they are trying way to hard to be serious. That's what FF is for.

Edited by Hedgehogs Boost
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Now a story taking itself seriously is something entirely different. A story that takes itself seriously has the characters involved take each situation as if it were life and death, hardly anyone jokes and if they do its always in a sarcastic manner.
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There's a line, dude.

You've played ShTH and wondered what it would be like if Sonic had a darker atmosphere? Well sorry to break it to you but ShTH crosses the line in how dark a Sonic game should NOT be by a long shot. There are reasons why that game got low scores and it's oversaturation of what it called "dark" is one of them.

At the same time, I really doubt people who want a darker atmosphere actually have any idea what makes an effective attempt at being "dark" without the franchise looking as if it jumped the shark. It's not impossible for Sonic to have a dark atmosphere, but it's making it work that's a different ball game. Take SA2 for example. Right at the beginning of the Heroes side of the story, Sonic is cheerfully jumping out of a helicopter and snowboarding on asphalt in a San Francisco-esque city. And in various other levels, you see some of the characters traversing in rather bright settings. And this is in a game where dark element are done right.

But it didn't have your character cussing at inappropriate moments and out of the blue. It wasn't trying so hard to be serious than it was trying to tell it's story. And it definitely didn't make a parody of itself on accident. What you're looking for is how mature the series can carry its themes without going to far. SA2 gave us a conspiracy, and characters who have actually been killed/murdered without throwing it in our face like a brick. But it didn't have that until we got closer and closer to the climax. And at the end, things got more brighter, although more somber as things were finally taken care of.

I'll go outside of the series. Take the Megaman franchise. Start off at Classic and you'll see an atmosphere similar to the early Sonic series. Proceed into the X series, and things start getting edgier, with corrupted robots called "Mavericks/Irregulars" killing human beings and you going out to stop them. As soon as you hit the Zero franchise, you hit the series darkest point as you have a genocidal campaign to destroy robots to solve a city's energy crisis, the main character joining a terrorist organization to save these robots, and a post-apocalyptic world that is on the verge of death. The funny thing about this is that you don't actually realize how dark it is until you take a sharper look at it.

To wrap things up, while a darker atmosphere isn't a bad thing for Sonic, it's the way you go about making one that helps it fit without the series looking like something else. You can't just put in edgier elements and expect it to work.

I meant, what if Sonic had a darker atmosphere overall. Not to the extent of Shadow; ShTH's enjoyable, but a bit too in your face. Like a bit more subtle type of darkness. Like SA2 in your example, but a bit more darker in tone. Actually, the whole MM to MMX thing is similar to what I had in mind. Not Zero, though, Zero gets a bit too dark for even Sonic.

I don't think that's true. A serious story just has to take itself as seriously as it deserves to be taken. And you can have characters who aren't entirely serious without the story ceasing to be serious. Sonic is a cocky character who can crack jokes even in life-or-death situations, but that doesn't prevent the story from being serious; it can still be serious if the stakes are sufficiently high and the characters take things as seriously as is appropriate for their personalities. So Sonic can still crack jokes as long as he's also fighting his hardest, with Eggman fuming and Sonic's friends worrying and cheering him on.

Oh, man, no. Not dark to the point where it changes the personalities of characters like Sonic, Tails, etc. Nonononono.

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I know its probably been alluded to a thousand times. but I figure if you played all the Ratchet and Clank games and edited out those jokes that wouldn't make sense in a Sonic game. You'd probably get the tone I'm happy with.

Edited by Dejablue
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Never really thought of Sonic as a dark type of personality. SA2 def had some darker attitude which is why i love the game. But yeah i'd say the later ones like Colors even if it was a good game was definitively more kid friendly. I do like the dark sonic games, makes it better.

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It worked in SA2; so I wouldn't mind.

Not every game has to have a dark tone or light one. As long as the writing is good it can work.

.

so yeah.

Edited by Eastwood
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If it was handled extremely well, than it could be interesting, but as it's been pointed out here before, Sonic isn't really suited for dark storylines.

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I don't know. Maybe Dark is relative. Like what's considered dark in one game isn't really dark in another? And its not even whats happening but now the characters respond and react.

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I don't think that's true. A serious story just has to take itself as seriously as it deserves to be taken. And you can have characters who aren't entirely serious without the story ceasing to be serious. Sonic is a cocky character who can crack jokes even in life-or-death situations, but that doesn't prevent the story from being serious; it can still be serious if the stakes are sufficiently high and the characters take things as seriously as is appropriate for their personalities. So Sonic can still crack jokes as long as he's also fighting his hardest, with Eggman fuming and Sonic's friends worrying and cheering him on.

Aren't we supposed to take something as serious as the protagonist are taking it?

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Aren't we supposed to take something as serious as the protagonist are taking it?
How serious any particular character or group of characters takes it is not necessarily the same as how serious it is. There's no rule that says the way the protagonist sees it is how things really are. It would be perfectly valid to write it so that Sonic is taking it less seriously than it is, having him be full-on cocky thrill seeker while everything else is pointing to this being serious shit, because that's the kind of character Sonic is; someone who sees Eggman's schemes as a chance for adventure, someone who expects he'll come out on top even if he's not deadly serious about it.
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I meant, what if Sonic had a darker atmosphere overall. Not to the extent of Shadow; ShTH's enjoyable, but a bit too in your face. Like a bit more subtle type of darkness. Like SA2 in your example, but a bit more darker in tone. Actually, the whole MM to MMX thing is similar to what I had in mind.

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It could work, and it could work well.

Within reason, I don't believe there's any such thing as a bad idea. Only poor execution. If they're going to make a game explore new themes and directions, they better have their hearts and minds in the right places before starting to put it together. That's the real difference between a "bad" idea, and a "good" one.

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Personally I would not like to see it go back into a dark route. I think the error a lot of people are making is that dark =/= seriousness. You can have a lighthearted story with a serious message behind, and substance, without having to resort to going all dark and dramatic. The tone of those stories just doesn't fit the whimsical world of Sonic, and it always comes off as real cheesy and stupid imo, even more than a lighthearted story with cheesy elements does. The way I see it, I wouldn't mind a Sonic game with a bit of weight behind the story, but it can be something thoroughly entertaining with a lot of substance and still keep its light tone. I'd rather not see it go back towards the direction of SA2 Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic 06 though, that is for sure.

Edit: man, never write a post when you are super tired. I don't feel like editing it all but DAT GRAMMAR.

Edited by Chaser John Doe
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They could easily make it darker without overdoing it. Just think in terms of militaristic darkness. Using elements like betrayl and trickery. They don't need to murder nor do they need to try to be badass.

A nice dark element would be a very nice CGI of Robotnik unleashing a large amount of his droids from a flying fortess. One his droids about to take out an innocent, but of course being stopped by one of the heroes.

You can show murderous intents like they do in Zelda games. Those get pretty dark, but they never cross the line. Just think in that line.

Shadow's game was mainly the fact that they really tried to be be badass and edgy, but it made it more cheesy than anything. Not good cheese either. Though I found some enjoyment, and looking back at some of the cutscene saw some things that I liked,(though spoiled by the whole game -- I still squench hearing the cursing), I say Shadow's game had potiential, but that was ruined.

But again, with the robotic military view, rather than just plots, you can get pretty dark. Sonic Team's writer should borrow a few atmospheric ideals from the early Archie Comics. Say up to the 50th comic. There's some good things there.

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I would see a Sonic storyline with a Tarantino vibe to it. That would suit him.

Haha that would be awesome.

*realises it would have millions of foot shots of Amy, Cream And Rouge*

Perhaps... not... it'd answer the whole toes question people seem to have though.

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