42 replies to this topic

[Sega DogTagz]

Meh,

I’m of the opinion that that games do a better job than most people are willing to give credit when it comes to developing a select handful of characters, so I think this whole list is bunk… but it is put together in such a way that I can agree with a few things here and there.


Archie did find their own ways to make characters like Cream and Omega “fit into” their series. Those two in particular have become delightful little role players, which is something the comic series has to have. There is just more space in a monthly comic series, so they have to fill in those gaps.

Other characters like Amy… well, you have to respect how the writers managed to avoid the pitfalls of her game counterpart. That in of itself has to be worth a couple bonus points.

While I am a fan of Archie Sonic and Tails, their development carries a different weight than the ones over at Sega. We all know that Sonic has grown into his own identity in the comics, crafting an image of himself that is both unique and fitting to the comic universe. In that light, I don’t think that Sonic has had better development that what we get out of Sega Sonic at his best. He’s come a long way and Archie Sonic still gets stuck in the problems that plagued his youth from time to time. Tails is settling into this category as well.

[Soniman]

Guess ill have my say even though a topic pertaining to the comics has gone just as well as I expected (as in not at all).

Okay Sonic first.

Ill say right now that I prefer his game persona strictly because of the freedom he has and his newfound Colors persona saved his character for me.

But that does not mean Archie!Sonic is some womanizing manwhore with a leash around his neck, that's an enormously gross exaggeration to me. Sonic has shown (and said) that time and again he will still do whatever he thinks is right despite the monarchy's laws and shit, that whole "womanizing" aspect of his character is all but dead and has been since Ken left the building. And thee whole ball-and-chain aspect of Sally sounds less like a character thing and more of a problem with the basic concepts of the comic and show itself. Sonic is still virtuous, a bit rash and impatient, but still fights for the greater good and still makes dodgy puns in the heat of battle. Just like his game self.

Tails

They are about the same, though Archie!Tails gets more chances to shine, prove his worth, his prowess, and general know-how. Either way it's about equal.

Silver

Holy mother of god, THIS is where the improvements are the most apparent. Silver in the games is a ginormous douchebag that is easily fooled by obviously demonic beings and thinks he's always right about everything, and extremely naive to borderline stupid.
Archie!Silver shares many traits, such as his naivety but the thing is that it's at least on his own terms, he's a guy desperate to saved is ruined timeline and is the only one powerful enough to do it, he's basically on his own that's why I can mostly forgive the aforementioned "idiot ball" since he basically takes any leads or hope he can get to save his time. Not to mention that his personality is much more fun and likable if his arc in Universe is any indication.

Chaotix

Neither of the teams do all that much in either medium, Esipo's angle as a part of a ninja clan was .... out of the blue but at least it gave his whole "ninja" angle (that Sega came up with mind you) some logic. Charmy is Charmy, not much to say there, and Vector hasn't been doing much of anything as of recently

Omega

Game!Omega blows shit up, Archie!Omega blows shit up and has humorous dialogue to go with it, Archie!Omega wins.

Eggman

Both incarnations are fun and charming in their own ways, they're equal.

Shadow

Both incarnations are with G.U.N, however Archie!Shadow is actually making use of this role and he's actually willing to have a sense of humor every now and then and has moments of actually smiling. That alone gets my accolades as it shows that Shadow can have emotional range and not have it be out of character. As for his "avenging Maria" angle, well HE did do that in the SA2 adaptation before naturally loosing his memory and working for Eggman for a time, he eventual got the answers he was looking for in Gerald's Diary, that was basically his closure and he basically sought to fulfill Maria's wish by working with G.U.N and defend the planet/Station Square

Edited by The Groosenator, 16 April 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[The Real Darth Sonikku]

You KNOW what I'm totally going to disagree with, right?


Let's get it out now; In my own opinion, giving Espio loyalty to the Shinobi clan, a bunch of ninjas from fuck out nowhere, was both an ass pull and a plothole that was added for the sole purpose of giving him something to do (which failed, because after a Friend in Deed he wasn't seen again until SU#15 for a sec, and SU#16 only served to have the Shinobis easily relent their position, and then have Espio exposit a backstory which now acts as a damper on his entire comic history). And then the only thing it really did was have Mighty go on his adventure with Ray in #212. It didn't really make Espio himself interesting, quite the opposite; whereas he was once a chill guy, and then a chill guy who happens to also be a ninja, he now broods like no tomorrow, is more like a typical angster and is no fun at all.


I also disagree pretty strongly with his picks of Sonic, Omega and Silver...but all that said, the article in itself is pretty well done.

Bad charicterization (and I don't personally believe it is, but I'm addressing your opinion here) is still characterization, which is more than they get from Sonic Team.

[VEDJ-F]

I find that game!Espio has plenty of characterisation though.

[Vertekins]

Bad charicterization (and I don't personally believe it is, but I'm addressing your opinion here) is still characterization, which is more than they get from Sonic Team.

Are you kidding?

The characters have had characterization in the games. It doesn't matter if it's "Bad" or if it's "Good", it's still characterization. Character development however is something to be desired for the characters though Sonic has had some damn fine characterization and development for a while now.

Edited by Verte, 16 April 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Are you kidding?

The characters have had characterization in the games. It doesn't matter if it's "Bad" or if it's "Good", it's still characterization. Character development however is something to be desired for the characters though Sonic has had some damn fine characterization and development for a while now.

Well that's a given, its everyone else who's lacking in terms of character though.

[Nepenthe]

That's because we haven't seen anyone else aside from Sonic and Tails in any meaningful roles for awhile now, although all of the trash talking and interaction in Free Riders was entertaining.

[Azure Yakuzu]

It was wasn't it, if only Amy wasn't such a bitch in that game(seriously what the hell was up with her?)


It amazes me how a spin off succeeded where a mainstream title failed in terms of character interactions, its like all the writing talent is reserved for the games that don't matter.

[The Real Darth Sonikku]

I find that game!Espio has plenty of characterisation though.

Really? Then by all means, do tell... beyond "Deadpanning ninja detective" that is.

[Nepenthe]

It was wasn't it, if only Amy wasn't such a bitch in that game(seriously what the hell was up with her?)

It amazes me how a spin off succeeded where a mainstream title failed in terms of character interactions, its like all the writing talent is reserved for the games that don't matter.

Ha, I liked Amy's bitchiness. She wasn't overtly physical and threatening, but she did had idealistic and typical views about how she and others should've been treated in the competition. It was cute in a way; hardly her worst performance.

And remember, utilizing secondary characters in the main Sonic games is like pulling out of Iraq; apparently you need a timetable otherwise people will freak the fuck out.

[VEDJ-F]

Really? Then by all means, do tell... beyond "Deadpanning ninja detective" that is.

Let me just get my pasta.

*One copy/pasta later*

Never thought I'd be referring back to that damn character list of often.

Espio, to me, can be loved for completely different reasons to why I love him. From the usual fangirly perspective, he’s ‘cool’ in the same way that Shadow or Silver is; stoic, reserved, down-to-Earth, brooding, humble…
…Except that’s bullshit. SEGA themselves put it best in his bios; “Opinionated and obsessed”. Espio is an egotist. The value he puts in ninjutsu and his own skill is ridiculous to the point of being self-parodying (he claims that ninjas can walk on water, what the fuck). He also isn’t hesitant on putting his view on things into the fray, to the point of…dare I say it…almost acting like a nagging housewife to Vector when he gets distracted in Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (believe me, I have seen that scenario play out NUMEROUS times in my house, except replace whitestones with bills and bank statements). He himself can also be guilty of miscommunication that ends up with Vector scolding him (and him running away from the communicator. I’m sure Silver was just as confused as I was)
Though he’s much fuller on vices than people may claim him to be, he does have his good side, obviously; his ninjutsu gives him a steadfast moral code to follow, as well as duty and honour. He especially seems loyalty-bound to Vector at the very least, although he admitted doesn’t get that much interaction with Charmy (which is weird, when you think about it). Aside from that, he does have a plethora of skills to go some way to back up his tremendous ego. He’s hinted at having a mischievous streak in him stemming from his invisibility. He acts as the emotional core of the Chaotix, giving him the soulfulness (which is NOT stoicism). All in all, a character who may get a bit of misguided backlash thanks to the fangirl crowd who like him because he’s ‘kewl’.

[ChaosXVI]

Honestly I agree with the article overall, although Archie!Sonic definitely isn't the same Sonic that he used to be. He used to be far douchier (though never to the point of Fleetway) and at times a bit of a loose cannon. Not sure if that means he's been developed better than the games, but honestly I don't bother with the game storylines hardly anymore, the dialog has been pure shit since Heroes. Archie!Knuckles is infinitely superior to his game counterpart as he's now just a dipshit who does nothing in the games. Archie!Omega I like as well due to his awesome dialog, somewhat reminding me of Bender from Futurama. But lastly, I LOVE Archie!Silver, in the sense that I love to hate him. Every time he crashes and burns its a blast because he never sees it coming, and always expects to be the hero only to fall flat on his face. Somehow this makes him likeable to me.

However, I hated the whole "Espio retcon" that occurred, and is the only part of this article I will vehemently disagree with. That came from nowhere and pretty much eradicated his previous Archie characterization.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Ha, I liked Amy's bitchiness. She wasn't overtly physical and threatening, but she did had idealistic and typical views about how she and others should've been treated in the competition. It was cute in a way; hardly her worst performance.

And remember, utilizing secondary characters in the main Sonic games is like pulling out of Iraq; apparently you need a timetable otherwise people will freak the fuck out.

Eh, I guess we disagree then, I just found her utterly abhorrent in that game especially since in the previous two games she only got bitchy when provoked and not when her teammates screwed up, and that's not even factoring the voice she had(I'm glad it improved for Generations), basically I'd be more ok with her if her attitude was toned down to the people that deserved it(Team Dark, the Rogues) rather than her teammates.


I thought it was just a double standard; nobody cares if everyone is stuffed in a spin off title, but the second they go mainstream, everyone wants to lose their shit.

[Lamor]

I don't read Archie comics but...

I don't bother with the game storylines hardly anymore, the dialog has been pure shit since Heroes.

Lies. What about Unleashed, Storybook games and Colours? Generations wasn't that bad either...

[MarcelloF]

Speaking of Free Riders, it did give us the best portrayal of Shadow and Rouge yet. If they'd be like that in the games they'd be better than Archie (Well, the last thing I remember Rouge doing in the comics was working with Scourge, so I can't say she fares better in the comics, besides most of the games not doing any better)

[Gabe]

Lies. What about Unleashed,

Here...we....go! GO! WOOO! Feeling good! HAH! HUH! HUAH! HAAAAAAH! (Werehog when starting level) GAAHHHHHHHH! (Werehog drowning)

Colours?

Did somebody order a large clobbering?

Generations wasn't that bad either...

Need I say more?

Spoiler

Edited by Zinos, 17 April 2012 - 02:08 PM.

[sonfan1984]

Let's just say that all of the 3D Sonic games (yes, even the Sonic Adventure games) is guilty of having some bad or cheesy lines and get over it.

Hate to see another topic turns into yet another discussion about cheesy dialogue in the series.

Edited by sonfan1984, 17 April 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[y cant solkia crawl]

Is he talking overall, or recently?

[Lamor]

Need I say more?

You killed my soul.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

The guy has some VERY solid points, however i'm not so sure why the hell Sonic and Eggman are on the list as "awful" characters. Although I have to say, Archie's version of Eggman is a HELL of a lot more interesting than Game Eggman (that isn't to say that Game Eggman doesn't have his great moments, what with making the AWESOME Egg Dragoon of all things).

Everything else, I have to agree. Silver in the comics has more going on for him as he's being led on a goose hunt to find out who the traitor is as opposed to finding the Iblis Trigger because some stranger said "this was the guy." And I have to agree with what they've said for Tails, as ever since Heroes-Shadow, Tails has been getting a lot less action as time goes by in the gameverse.

If they're are people thinking of the characters as good for their merits in the comics, as opposed to the fact that they merely exist in the games, then that may very well show that there is some hope for the game version of the characters getting some degree of redemption.

Of course, the two continuities have a completely different canon where one is based of the material from the other, so it's not to say that just because one has better characterization does not mean that'll instantly translate as good for the other.