8 replies to this topic

[VisionaryBlur]

This is the film that nearly wrecked the Disney studio back in the 80s for being too dark for chiidren but too boring for adults. So is this film as bad as people make it out to be? Well... let's get into the story.

Based off the second volume of Llyod Alexander's hit children's novels, The Chronicles of Prydain, the Black Cauldron follows the exploits of Taran, a pigkeeper charged with a task of phenomenal porpotions: to find one of the greatest weapons known to man, the Black Cauldron. Inside the cauldron is an evil so great, that whomever possesses it could rule the world, or destroy it.

Together with his friends, a washed up bard named Fflewddur Fflam, a princess without a throne, Eilonwy, and meddling pest, Gurgi, Taran must find the Black Cauldron before the evil Horned King.

So, already you notice a problem with this film. It's based off the second novel of a series. Yes, that sounds like a perfect place to start a blockbuster hit. The film was made to combat the likes of Ralph Bakshi and Heavy Metal during the 70s and 80s, beginning production just before the Rescuers came out. So thats... 9 or 8 years of production. That's an utter mess.

Ok, so I don't have anything I find especially bad about this film. I just think it's pretty dull. Taran doesn't go through enough strife to make his development in my opinion. Eilonwy and Fflewddur add little to the picture. Ok, so Eilonwy did have potential. If she was given a few more scenes to herself being competant, I'd have liked her better. Gurgi is adorable to me, and I don't know why people find him so annoying. His voice really doesn't grate on me, so I don't know what else about him bothers. The Horned King is a disappointing villain. He looks so badass, and he has a crap load of build up, but he doesn't do anything! It is not fair I say; a badass like that should not be so sidestepped like that.

Being an adventure film like this, I feel that the scenes are not long enough for character development. It's like a road trip movie, just one oddity after the next with no time to stop and breath. The Dark Crystal had good development, and that film was only 93 minutes (granted, this film was only 80, but still.)

The animation rarerly ever has time to pop out and impress. The times that it does though, it's impressive. The dragon scene was some of the best animation out of anything Disney made during the 80s (before TLM). The Cauldron Born scene was great too, being the first usage of computers in any Disney film. Plus, I think this film was the last Disney film to use 70 mm film. Not too sure on that.

Overall, the film just screams potential, but just falls to be bland. It's a bigger crime to make an ok movie than a bad one. People remember bad movies.

Edited by VisionaryBlur, 21 April 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Mollfie]

I loved The Black Cauldron as a kid and I still love it now. It thought it was brilliant because it was darker than your standard Disney fare, which I also loved as a kid but The Black Cauldron made a nice change. But I do think it could have been better, maybe if they'd given it more time or had a bigger budget? I don't know.

[VisionaryBlur]

I loved The Black Cauldron as a kid and I still love it now. It thought it was brilliant because it was darker than your standard Disney fare, which I also loved as a kid but The Black Cauldron made a nice change. But I do think it could have been better, maybe if they'd given it more time or had a bigger budget? I don't know.

It had 8 or 9 years of production, and a 25 million dollar budget, (49,973,402 million in 2010 apparently.) That's a lot of time and money. The production was a mess just by looking at the storyboards and how they would evolve.

*Fun fact: this was Tim Burton's first time working at Disney, until he quit the project.*

[Mollfie]

lol well maybe time and money was on their side then, but they simply didn't use it wisely.

[BW199148]

It had 8 or 9 years of production, and a 25 million dollar budget, (49,973,402 million in 2010 apparently.) That's a lot of time and money. The production was a mess just by looking at the storyboards and how they would evolve.

*Fun fact: this was Tim Burton's first time working at Disney, until he quit the project.*

Well actually you're kinda right, Tim Burton also worked on Fox And the Hound as well but you're right he did quit Disney during the Black Cauldron due to lack of artistic direction.

This film is so damn underrated! I actually still enjoy now and again. It however could of been way better, John Hurt was brilliant as the Horned King though in my opinion.

Like Mollfie it was so different with what Disney had done before and after this. Although 25 Million 8/9 production time that's one hell of a risk.

However I think the 80's were really unkind to Disney Animation Studios. They only one rival they really had was Don Bluth.

There were other animated films though toy based commercials that admit I stil enjoy watching *cough* Transformers *cough* Care Bears. But Disney should been film to give guys a run of their money.

Edited by BW199148, 22 April 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[VisionaryBlur]

Well actually you're kinda right, Tim Burton also worked on Fox And the Hound as well but you're right he did quit Disney during the Black Cauldron due to lack of artistic direction.

This film is so damn underrated! I actually still enjoy now and again. It however could of been way better, John Hurt was brilliant as the Horned King though in my opinion.

Like Mollfie it was so different with what Disney had done before and after this. Although 25 Million 8/9 production time that's one hell of a risk.

However I think the 80's were really unkind to Disney Animation Studios. They only one rival they really had was Don Bluth.

There were other animated films though toy based commercials that admit I stil enjoy watching *cough* Transformers *cough* Care Bears. But Disney should been film to give guys a run of their money.

Actually, at the time the competition for this film wasn't a Don Bluth flick... it was... Care bears...and it won.

I guess the biggest fault with this film was that Disney didn't know how to market it. People have a certain idea about how a Disney film should be like, and when your image is as the happiest place on earth, people don't expect a trailer like this.



I guess Disney just didn't know how to lie well enough back then. They should have only showed the really cute parts of the film like the rerelease trailer.

Edited by VisionaryBlur, 22 April 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[BW199148]

Actually, at the time the competition for this film wasn't a Don Bluth flick... it was... Care bears...and it won.

I guess the biggest fault with this film was that Disney didn't know how to market it. People have a certain idea about how a Disney film should be like, and when your image is as the happiest place on earth, people don't expect a trailer like this.



I guess Disney just didn't know how to lie well enough back then. They should have only showed the really cute parts of the film like the rerelease trailer.

Aren't you forgetting American Tail it was released the same year, though maybe not the same time. If I am honest they were trying to do something different and people just weren't expecting it from Disney.

To be honest if I had under 7's and I was a parent and I saw that trailer I would probably take them to see the Care Bears. Though some of Henchmen look goofy, also Cute Bears that care seem more appealing to some younger children and older children would probably want to watch something other than a Disney film.

I do believe the Black Cauldron had a bit of blood in it, but it was edited out on future re-releases.

Despite its flaws its still in my opinion an enjoyable film I haven't read the book it was based on but I am sure they are completely different. I don't know why 80's animated Disney films get some much flak (other than the Little Mermaid but that was largely release in 1990 worldwide) I recommend people at least give them a watch at least once, which reminds me I need rewatch The Great Mouse Detective again, Vincent Price was great in that.

EDIT: My bad just look it up and American Tail came out I year later, woops.

Edited by BW199148, 22 April 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[VisionaryBlur]

Aren't you forgetting American Tail it was released the same year, though maybe not the same time. If I am honest they were trying to do something different and people just weren't expecting it from Disney.

To be honest if I had under 7's and I was a parent and I saw that trailer I would probably take them to see the Care Bears. Though some of Henchmen look goofy, also Cute Bears that care seem more appealing to some younger children and older children would probably want to watch something other than a Disney film.

I do believe the Black Cauldron had a bit of blood in it, but it was edited out on future re-releases.

Despite its flaws its still in my opinion an enjoyable film I haven't read the book it was based on but I am sure they are completely different. I don't know why 80's animated Disney films get some much flak (other than the Little Mermaid but that was largely release in 1990 worldwide) I recommend people at least give them a watch at least once, which reminds me I need rewatch The Great Mouse Detective again, Vincent Price was great in that.

EDIT: My bad just look it up and American Tail came out I year later, woops.

The blood was never editted out of the future releases. It was editted out of the initial release.

Besides, there's only 3 instances with blood in the editted movie. 1- When Taran is trying to save Hen Wen. 2- The black cauldron starts bleeding. 3- The Horned King getting his skin ripped off.

[Tailikku]

And since this film was not featured in Dream Drop Distance, I am opting this for KHIII like when somebody suggested this when I posted an anniversary topic. Plus I even came up with my own plot for if Prydain makes it into the series (see below).

And what's more is that two of the voice actors in this film were also involved with the animated Lord of the Rings films. John Hurt, the voice of the Horned King, was in Ralph Bakshi's film as the voice of Aragorn while the narrator, John Huston, was Gandalf in the Hobbit and The Return of the King. And what's more is that the late Nigel Hawthorn, the voice of Fflewddur in this film, later appeared in Tarzan as Professor Porter.

• Sora arrives, meets Taran in the woods
• Enter Gurgi, Hen Wen captured by the gwythaints
• the three chase the raptors to Spiral Castle
• Entering the castle
• Enter Horned King
• Saving Hen Wen's life
• Sora and Taran jailed
• Enter Eilownwy
• Crypt exploration, get Dyrnwyn, meet Fflewddur
• Boss Battle: Escape from the Castle (BGM: The Encounter)
• Meet Gurgi again
• the Fair Folk
• "Welcome to Morva"
• The Witches appear, flying pots
• Sora gives up his Keyblade
• "The Black Cauldron can never be destroyed"
• Captured by the Huntsmen
• Sora heads back to Caer Dallben for advice
• Hen Wen's vision
• Dallben magicks the Keyblade back to Sora
• Run through the forest to the Castle
• Boss Battle: The Cauldron Born (BGM: Squirming Evil)
• Gurgi's sacrifice
• Boss Battle: The Horned King (BGM: Destiny's Force)
• Escape from the destruction of the castle
• "The Black Cauldron for Gurgi"
• Happily ever after for now

Cast for this world:
Daniel Radcliffe - Taran
Katherine Beaumont - Eilownwy
Jeff Bennet - Flewddur, King Eiddileg
John Byner - Gurgi, Doli
Freddie Jones - Dallben
John Hurt or Corey Burton - The Horned King
Corey Burton - Huntsmen
Phil Fondacaro - Creeper
Susanne Blakeslee - Ordu, Orgoch
Billie Hayes - Orwen

Just so we're clear on the order, after the group is kidnapped by the huntsmen, Sora makes a break for Caer Dallben which involves him running through a thicket, woods, and crossing a river. He then meets Dallben who now has Hen Wen in safety, and tells him that even though he may have traded the Keyblade for the Cauldron, there are some things a witch can't take. Dallben then uses the magic from the Book of Three to magick Sora's Keyblade back. Then Hen Wen gives her vision showing Gurgi's sacrifice and resurrection and Sora's final battle against Xehanort. The bit where Sora encounters the Cauldron Born is based on a deleted concept from the film where a random villager is killed by the CB.

Edited by Tailikku, 02 May 2012 - 01:30 AM.