401 replies to this topic

[Semi-colon e]

I was actually being sarcastic with that line. XP I guess I made it sound too serious. I do think White Park is a unique enough addition to the series.

Oops, that was me just reading the part about the water and COMPLETELY skipping the carnival thing (I just saw "christmas"), my bad!

Edited by Semi-colon e, 22 May 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[Solid SOAP]

I think some of the EP II review complaints stem from Episode I being reviewed higher. It doesn't really make sense to see EP II getting 6's, 7's, and 8's when EP II is getting 3's, 4's, and 5's. Episode II can be agreed to be a much better game than EP I.

So I guess we could say that EP I was a little bit overrated?.

Calling Episode I overrated is an understatement, Episode I in general was a bad game. Episode II, however, is fun and good in its own right and feels like its own thing.

[Blue Blood]

I really don't understand the complaints about Zone originality in this game, they're just as original as they were in the Genesis games. Slyvania Castle is to Aquatic Ruin as Hill Top was to Green Hill, White Carnival is to Ice Cap as Lave Reef was to Marble Zone, etc. The only blatant rehash is Sky Fortress, and even so I loved that stage so I'm not complaining.

Sylvania Castle is far less original that you're suggesting. The brick work is the same as Aquatic Ruin's, it shares many of the same obstacles and enemies, it's got Aquatic Ruin's iconic foreground leaves the background is the same with the addition of some ruins. It's Aquatic Ruin with worse level design and a castle motif.

White Park looks as unique as it's possible for an ice stage to do, or at least within Act 1. The only stage Act 2 is comparable to is Sky Park, although it's lacking all the character. Act 3 just looks generic. A cave is a cave and all that, but it could stand to look more original.

Oil Desert is... odd. It share perhaps too many traits with Oil Ocean to be considered unique when there's been so much rehashing going on in S4, but otherwise it's okay. It's just got nothing to make it look memorable as a stage though. It's a very generic looking zone.

They didn't even try when it came to Sky Fortress.

[Pawn]

I really don't understand the complaints about Zone originality in this game, they're just as original as they were in the Genesis games. Slyvania Castle is to Aquatic Ruin as Hill Top was to Green Hill, White Carnival is to Ice Cap as Lave Reef was to Marble Zone, etc. The only blatant rehash is Sky Fortress, and even so I loved that stage so I'm not complaining.

The problem is that SC directly rips from Aquatic Ruin. The developers even acknowledge that that was their intention in the boss battle. The brickwork, the background, the plants in the foreground, the logs, the badniks etc. If it was just one thing here and there then fine, or if this was the only level that borrowed many elements then it wouldn't bother me so much. However with this + Sky Fortress + Oil Desert sharing similarities with Oil Ocean (the only other oil-themed level), very little of the game is left to call new.

EDIT: Ninja'd. I take ages to write posts. =|

Edited by Lungo, 24 May 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Discoid]

And before my post is quoted and I hear a cheeky reply of "oh maybe the game sucks and deserves a 5/10?" No. I'm not buying that nonsense. I'm not saying Episode II doesn't have its flaws, but it (and the franchise) does not deserve these 5/10 scores.

Yes it does.

And I stopped reading there, because I'm not buying the rest of that nonsense.

[Pawn]

White Park looks as unique as it's possible for an ice stage to do, or at least within Act 1. The only stage Act 2 is comparable to is Sky Park, although it's lacking all the character. Act 3 just looks generic. A cave is a cave and all that, but it could stand to look more original.

I really don't know why they left it so empty down there. Why not add some unique plant life, glowing coral, schools of brightly coloured fish or anglers to lighten up the place if you insist on leaving the background looking as drab as it does? If you're going to make Sonic spend the majority of a level underwater, at his slowest even with Tails, then give us something purdy to look at.

Edited by Lungo, 22 May 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[Wreck-It Ralph]

The only real problem with this is that Episode 1 was horribly overrated, making it seem to the general public that this episode isn't a step up. In my opinion, it's getting there but, it's still not quite right. This is generally in terms of stage design and such because, I'm ok with the physics engine now (except for Super Sonic's, which somehow is a straight rip from Sonic 4).

Edited by Crow T. Robot, 22 May 2012 - 09:55 PM.

[Nintendoga]

Kinda funny how a majority of us want this game to get poor/mediocre reviews, kinda like an anti-sonic cycle heh.

Anyways I stopped viewing this game as the long awaited sequel to Sonic 3 when it clearly can not, shall not, will not, and wished it could be the Sonic 4 as we imagined.

I partake Sonic 4 as the modern equivilant of the classics. Ep.1 was a poor attempt at Sonic 1. This game is a poort attempt at Sonic 2. I hope to god they don't "try" (emphasis on try) and make another episode of the supposed GRAND SAGA of Sonic 4 when we all know it will just be a poor attempt at Sonic 3.

Edited by Nintendoga, 22 May 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[Autosaver]

Well, the reason we want Sonic 4 Episode II to get "bad" reviews is so SEGA can look at them and actually put more effort into these games. If reviewers/users gave the game high reviews, SEGA wouldn't care nearly as much as they would right now. A message NEEDS to be sent. The only reason physics were changed is because WE complained. Complaints WILL get the franchise going somewhere.

[Nintendoga]

@Auto
True

And to all those saying "Episode one got better scores then Ep.2? Wtf reviewers are retards" I'll use this as an example, Generations was better then Colors as a game, right?

Colors Reviews

GameRankings (Wii) 78.02%
(NDS) 77.75%
Metacritic (NDS) 79/100
(Wii) 78/100
1UP.com (Wii) B+
Eurogamer (Wii) 8/10
Famitsu (Wii) 34/40
(NDS) 32/40
Game Informer (NDS) 8.5/10
(Wii) 7/10
GameSpot 8/10
GamesRadar (Wii) 7/10
GameTrailers (NDS) 7.9/10
(Wii) 6.4/10
IGN 8.5/10
Official Nintendo Magazine (Wii) 86%
(NDS) 85%
Wired (Wii) 7/10

Generations Reviews

GameRankings (PS3) 78.91%
(X360) 78.67%
(PC) 78.17%
(3DS) 70.93%
Metacritic (X360) 77/100
(PC) 77/100
(PS3) 76/100
(3DS) 67/100
1UP.com B
Edge 5/10
Eurogamer (Italy) 8/10
(UK) 7/10
Famitsu 35/40
G4 4/5
Game Informer 6.75/10
GamesMaster 84%
GameSpot 8.0/10
GamesTM 7/10
GamesRadar (X360/PS3/PC) 8/10
(3DS) 7/10
GameTrailers 8.1/10
GameZone 9.0/10
IGN (X360/PS3/PC) 8.5/10
(3DS) 7/10
Nintendo World Report 8.5/10
Official Nintendo Magazine 85%
TeamXbox 8/10

See what I'm trying to point out here? A majority of the reviewers who gave Colors a good score, ranked Generations the same, or maybe even lower then Colors. But yet everyone in the reviews praise Generations for being the best Sonic game in years, and far, far better then Colors.

Sure you can bring out the old " But Sonic 4 Ep.1 and 2 are the same game, and Ep.2 is better then 1, so Ep.2 should be getting better scores" argument, but it doesn't work like that. Sonic 4 Episode 2 fails at what it's trying to do, and just because Ep.1 got 8's and 7's, doesn't mean Ep.2 should get 10/10's. No, because it's an average game with more cons then pros.

They are judging it by itself, which in fact a ton of you should be thankful for because almost every Episode 1 review (critics and fans alike) compared this to Sonic 3, and brought the game down because of it. We're not doing that here, we are judging the game on it's own, because it's trying to be it's own thing.

Of course if you want to compare it to Sonic 3, then go right on ahead, in fact let me help you by starting out with the Thesis Statement

"Sonic 4 Episode 2 compared to Sonic 3, or any of the classics for that matter, is shit-"

Edited by Nintendoga, 22 May 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[Nepenthe]

I'm confused by this whole mess. Is not the purpose of Ep. 2 just to be a sequel to and overall better game than Ep. 1? Is it really only supposed to be viewed as a standalone title, or is it supposed to conjure direct comparisons to its prequel as well? One would naturally think the latter, and if so, are the lower scores not inherently a point of contention, or is the teamwork gimmick really so godawful as you guys say it is as to render the shitastic physics of the prequel as a godsend by comparison?

[Indigo Rush]

I think the confusing part for many people is the fact that the first installment of Sonic 4 had recieved fairly positive marks across the board, ranging from 7s to 9s. I'm not going to argue this, but from a first glance, it seems illogical and nonsensical. For all intents and purposes, Episode II is verily indeedly better on almost all fronts than Episode I, particularly in the controls and visuals department. The only thing that's actually regressed, one could argue, is the music and boss fights. Aside from that, it's either unchanged or better. Keeping this in mind, it would appear that a lower score in lieu of the definite improvements seems silly.

However, this is not what I'm arguing for. I think the case seems to be that people (reviewers and critics, mainly) were so wrapped up in the concept of a new 2D Sonic that calls back to the Genesis days without completely and utterly sucking, that they didn't take the time to look at the game more objectively like the more seasoned and critical fans did. Once the "OMG 2D SONIC NO CRAPPY FRIENDS" rush wore down, they were able to look at the game objectively, and found out that... well, neither Episode I or Episode II were the great revivals that they at first appeared to be. You'll see that nearly every Episode II review doesn't open up with "man, Episode I was so great," but rather, "Episode I was okay, but the physics and level design were pretty darn horrid. It's as if their opinion and overall view of the game changed completely between now and then, and if they had the opportunity to review Episode I again, it'd probably recieve much lower scores, more along the lines of what Episode II is seeing now.

So, it's not that Episode II is worse, it's more to do with reviewers coming to the conclusion that most of us realized from day 1: Episode I wasn't that great, and it's going to take more than 2D and a limited cast of friends to do the trick.

I mean... this is the only explanation I have for this. I like Episode II, but I am able to admit that it most definitely fell short of what it was called to do, just... not as much as Episode I did, hence the initial confusion and backlash from various fans who acknowledge and appreciate the definite improvements made.

Edited by Indigo Rush, 22 May 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[Solly]

Well, the reason we want Sonic 4 Episode II to get "bad" reviews is so SEGA can look at them and actually put more effort into these games. If reviewers/users gave the game high reviews, SEGA wouldn't care nearly as much as they would right now. A message NEEDS to be sent. The only reason physics were changed is because WE complained. Complaints WILL get the franchise going somewhere.

Most of the time, though, there's a disconnect between what the critics complain about and what the fans complain about.

The fans complained about the physics not being enough like the Genesis games, and that was largely tweaked. Most critics aren't going to care that the rolling physics aren't Genesis-perfect, or that the homing attack is in the game, or a lot of things that matter to the fanbase.

The critics will, however, complain about things like Tails being a front and center character, or introducing new game mechanics. They've been making complaints like this for the past few years and it's the reason that Sonic's pretty much the only playable character nowadays, and the franchise has been afraid to deviate and make something truly new. SEGA listening to the fans has made a lot of positive changes, but it's really not the same case with critics.

Plus this game is currently getting lower scores than the first Episode when it really is inarguably better. What kind of message is THAT sending SEGA?

So no, I don't think the game getting shit reviews could be seen as a good thing, unless you really hate the game. If anything, this game performing poorly would mean less resources put touward the next one- if there is a next one.

I also think that the majority of Sonic 4's problems have nothing to do with effort- at least in the case of Episode 2. I could say that about a lot of Sonic game's but the biggest problems with Sonic 4 Episode 2 really come from design.

[/_JXJ_\]

You forget that with SEGA money talks, as long as the games are selling well then they're definitely gonna milk it until we see dust.

[Generations (Chaos Warp)]

You forget that with SEGA money talks, as long as the games are selling well then they're definitely gonna milk it until we see dust.

At this point with Sonic, I think Reputation talks loudly as well. They are still trying to dig themselves out of that hole they dug with games like Shadow and 06, and one somewhat badly reviewed game like this can destroy a lot of the progress they're making in the public eye.

Edited by Chaos Warp, 22 May 2012 - 11:27 PM.

[sonfan1984]

The critics will, however, complain about things like Tails being a front and center character, or introducing new game mechanics. They've been making complaints like this for the past few years and it's the reason that Sonic's pretty much the only playable character nowadays,

I was playing multiplayer mode as Tails yesterday and he's much more fun to play as then Sonic. It's a shame that you can't play as Tails solo. It just makes me want to play other characters even more now.

[Voyant]

So, it's not that Episode II is worse, it's more to do with reviewers coming to the conclusion that most of us realized from day 1: Episode I wasn't that great, and it's going to take more than 2D and a limited cast of friends to do the trick.

Well fuck...where was this kind of logic with GENERATIONS. Was Generations so much of an eye opener that now reviewers have decided to stop this ridiculousness BS train that been going on since 2006?


WELL ITS ABOUT FUCKING TIME!

[Ming Ming Suzy]

You forget that with SEGA money talks, as long as the games are selling well then they're definitely gonna milk it until we see dust.

'06 sold over a million copies, are they planning to create a sequel using the '06 engine?

[Neon]

Last of the "big ones".

Gamespot Review:

http://uk.gamespot.c...review-6378024/

Spoiler

6.0/10

[Nepenthe]

'06 sold over a million copies, are they planning to create a sequel using the '06 engine?

The 06 physics engine is called Havok which Unleashed and Generations use. The engine wasn't the problem with 06, but I'll stop being pedantic.