69 replies to this topic

[Diogenes]

I always thought the entire thing was based on "Rawr, Kakarot I want to beat you" "Lol ok" rather than idealism vs. Cynicism.

Well it's less blatant than some rivalries, but there are still significant elements of it; Goku, by my recollection, is the kind of guy who would like the bad guy to stop being bad, if that's an option, while Vegeta tends towards the "kill anyone who gets in my way" method. And a lot of Vegeta's development comes down to realizing that being the crazybrutal loner type isn't making him stronger than the guy who's made friends with several of his enemies. At least, that's how I remember it; I haven't watched DBZ in ages.

[VEDJ-F]

Actually, I've got to criticise the hat method a little bit.

Drawing names for rivalries work fine when there's some prolonged point of contrast. So if you drew, say, Knuckles and Blaze, that'd be fine because you could make a rivalry out of their duties somehow. If you drew Rouge and Cream...how the fuck would that work? I could buy that they'd go against each other for a game based on some plot event, but there's nothing there that could conceivably be made into a more permanent rivalry. Just like any character dynamic, you can't just throw any random things together and expect them to work 100% of the time.

Edited by VEDJ-F, 22 May 2012 - 04:05 AM.

[Sonu23]

I thought it was the whole "Goku vs. Vegeta" thing?

Vegeta had cyriptic view on justice and morallity.

[Diogenes]

Actually, I've got to criticise the hat method a little bit.

So you pull a few pairs and pick the one(s) that you can make work.

Edited by Diogenes, 22 May 2012 - 04:08 AM.

[Azure Yakuzu]

I'm not fully sure if we should blame the writers for Generations since the whole Sonic Only sentiment still seemed to hold tight during that game and that it's plot was even shorter than Colors.

It doesn't matter who's to blame, it was a fucking retarded decision to not have Sonic talk with anybody aside from Tails and Eggman throughout the entire game, despite there being numerous opportunities to do so. Why the fuck would you even have the other characters in the game, if Sonic wasn't going to talk with them? I mean they were already moving scenery at best, but you can't even be bothered to write a simple conversation for them and Sonic to interact? I mean how much are they going to beat this Solo Sonic crap before they realize how stupid its becoming, because the point when the main character isn't even speaking to any of the other characters sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

[VEDJ-F]

So you pull a few pairs and pick the one(s) that you can make work.

Okay, that sounds more workable.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Well it's less blatant than some rivalries, but there are still significant elements of it; Goku, by my recollection, is the kind of guy who would like the bad guy to stop being bad, if that's an option, while Vegeta tends towards the "kill anyone who gets in my way" method. And a lot of Vegeta's development comes down to realizing that being the crazybrutal loner type isn't making him stronger than the guy who's made friends with several of his enemies. At least, that's how I remember it; I haven't watched DBZ in ages.

Eh, I always though the focus was more on Vegeta getting over Goku just simply being better than him, and actually finding some peace..actually that still kind of falls under "Idealism vs. Cynicism"......fuck it, I still think Shadow & Silver would be far more interesting than Sonic & Shadow.

[Darth InVaders]

I'm down for a Knuckles vs Shadow rivalry - Knuckles could initially see Shadow as some similar kindred spirit in their respective rivalries with Sonic, but Shadow sees Knuckles as being childish like Sonic which just sets Knuckles off

An Amy vs Rouge rivalry would be humorous too if handled right - not sure how to not make it sexist though

Meh, more intrested in the basics: Sonic/Eggman, Sonic/Knuckles, Sonic/Shadow, Knuckles/Rouge, Tails/Eggman

But I do want more interactions between all the characters most of all, it does not even have to be rivalry interactions

[FFWF]

It seems that there's a distinction here between plot-based interaction and background interaction. You don't have to have other characters be involved in the plot at all to achieve the latter - they could be standing around anywhere and you could choose to go over and have a chat with them with whoever you're presently playing as. If Sonic Generations actually had real non-cutscene dialogue, it would have been the perfect set-up for this. And there are plenty of characters whose role is basically suited to just standing in the background responding to things rather than participating too actively - Amy in Unleashed is all about this, and Cream is much the same. But, as has been discussed often in these forums, most of the characters have personal concerns that would make it no difficulty to involve them in the plot. There's just a lack of will on the part of the developers to make it happen.

But anyway, as to a new rivalry, or just interaction, I'd like to see... well, I do like a lot of the ones in this topic, especially where they involve Tails or Amy or similar - characters who the enemy would completely underestimate and would like to just ignore. That has an interesting dynamic.

[James McCloud (Megumi)]

Knuckles and Metal Sonic.

Metal is all about being arrogant while Knuckles (before becoming a minor character) was more about purpose and duty, both are very serious, besides Metal would possibly question Knuckles' level of power possibly making up for his own copy ability.

[Soniman]

I dunno about Knuckles and Shadow, the two characters always struck me as guys who have mutual respect for each other in some sense.

[Kamicciolo]

Being rivals with each other doesn't automatically exclude them from having some hidden respect for one another, Sonic and Eggman are arch-enemies afterall, and yet it's been mentioned before that Eggman has a touch of respect for Sonic. Likewise Shadow and Knuckles could perhaps respect each other's dedication to one another's goals/duties, and just each other's skills in general.

Anyway, I find it interesting the number of rivalries that could revolve around Metal Sonic, ranging from those who don't like the idea of a copy of their best friend/attraction/whatever (like Tails, Amy, maybe Cream, Big and the Chaotix), and those who'd get a kick out of challenging him as if he were the real thing (so anyone who's actually fought the real Sonic before and wants to see how Metal measures up). There'd be quite a decent bit to explore in that.

Though honestly, the one rivalry I'd wanna see, purely for chuckles, is one between Orbot & Cubot and Big and Cream, purely due to me thinking that they'd be pretty hilarious against each other, and it gives some side characters a little more going on. The motivation behind it starting up would be simple to, just having Orbot and Cubot trying to capture Chao under Eggman's orders, so Cream enlists Big's help in dealing with the two bots, and let it grow from there :V

[Pawn]

^ I don't know about that. In my opinion Shadow works best as an arrogant git, thinking himself above everybody else (except for maybe Sonic, given their team up against the Biolizard). Considering how easily Knuckles gets riled up I can't see them getting along too easily. Anyway, one rivalry I would like to see is:


Blaze and Rouge

Clash of personalities: It's pretty clear that they provide a contrast as much as Knuckles and Shadow do against Sonic. One is a shy, restrained and conflicted princess while the other is a very open, thieving femme fatale. It would be easy to compile an extensive list of opposing traits for these two. It's worth noting that if it were not for that pesky barrier between dimensions, their circumstances would beg for them to be pit against one another. Story permitting, I can imagine Rouge would be itching to get her greedy mits on those Sol Emeralds.

In battle: With good execution this would be very entertaining to watch, with Blaze performing a kind of martial ballet while Rouge counters with a flurry of stabbing kicks. On the surface Blaze would appear to have Rouge outgunned, due to her speed and ability to ignite her body to some extent (outside of Burning Blaze though, we can't be certain of how far her skills extend in this area*). However Rouge likely has a plethora of tools and intelligence available at her disposal (courtesy of GUN), not to mention her wits, so have her go all Batman against seemingly insurmountable odds and exploit the opponent's weaknesses to full effect. She also likes to talk and has the potential to get under her enemy's skin, distracting them with taunts and her readily available assets (battits and battbutt ahoy - although this would obviously be downplayed if used to at all, because ratings). I can't imagine Blaze being prepared for Rouge at all, so the bat probably takes the advantage in this match up.

Ultimately they could learn a lot from each other through their rivalry. While Rouge could begrudgingly admire a princess who selflessly risks her life for others (despite having likely access to all the jewels she could possibly dream of), Blaze could stand to learn more about embracing her own needs and being more open and honest with herself.


* We could assume that we've seen everything or that she represses these abilities. Or perhaps her powers, like Shadow's Chaos Control, will change according to what the story and gameplay permit. This isn't the topic though.

Edited by Lungo, 22 May 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[FFWF]

Ah. That reminds me. Sorry to be a little off-topic, but I'm not that savvy with the past few years of Sonic games: In exactly how many games has Metal Sonic been able to copy other characters' abilities?

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

Ah. That reminds me. Sorry to be a little off-topic, but I'm not that savvy with the past few years of Sonic games: In exactly how many games has Metal Sonic been able to copy other characters' abilities?

Counting even the spin-offs, that would be four: Fighters, Heroes, Rivals 1, and Rivals 2.

In just the main series, only one, which was Heroes. However, in that one game, he copied 12 characters abilities based off what he said. Probably 13 if you want to include "the power of Chaos" as said by Eggman.

[Darth InVaders]

Counting even the spin-offs, that would be four: Fighters, Heroes, Rivals 1, and Rivals 2.

In just the main series, only one, which was Heroes. However, in that one game, he copied 12 characters abilities based off what he said. Probably 13 if you want to include "the power of Chaos" as said by Eggman.

In Heroes, Metal Sonic only copied Team Sonic, Shadow, and Chaos
- In the Team Sonic cutscene he said "All life form data... successfully copied!"
- In the Team Dark cutscene he said "Ultimate life form data... has been copied."
- In the Team Rose cutscene he said "Chaos data... has been copied!" (which he got from Chocola the Chao & Froggy)
There is no copying done in Team Chaotix's story
This means only 5 characters were copied at most in Heroes - if you want to exclude Tails (as some fans have because Metal can already fly), then 4 characters

Edited by Darth InVaders, 22 May 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[batson]

Im all for interactions between characters that hasn't had any before, but im not sure im particularly keen on seeing any more rivalries. I feel that perhapes the whole rival-thing has been done enough in the series due to the ridiculus amount of rivals that the main character has gotten over the years.

I would be much more interested in seeing some new friendships develop.

[Panda Cero]

So I tried CSS's randomized method for myself.

Dr. Eggman v. Big
Cream & Cheese v. Orbot & Cubot
Sonic v Tails
Amy v Omega
Shadow v Gemerl
Espio v Jet
Metal Sonic v Charmy
Knuckles v Vector
Silver v Marine
Blaze v Rouge

Surprisingly, I could see most, if not all, of these rivalries working in some way

[Diogenes]

Im all for interactions between characters that hasn't had any before, but im not sure im particularly keen on seeing any more rivalries. I feel that perhapes the whole rival-thing has been done enough in the series due to the ridiculus amount of rivals that the main character has gotten over the years.

Problem being that pretty much all of these rivalries have fallen apart. There's nothing wrong with setting up a few consistent ones. And what rivalries Sonic has should have no bearing on those of any other character.

I would be much more interested in seeing some new friendships develop.

If you think there's been too many rivalries I can't imagine how you could be asking for more friendships.

[VEDJ-F]

Yeah, the Metal Sonic vs Charmy and Silver vs Marine ones seem too implausible to me, but they were a minority.


Also I'd say Vector vs Jet was more likely, but whatever.