69 replies to this topic

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

In Heroes, Metal Sonic only copied Team Sonic, Shadow, and Chaos
- In the Team Sonic cutscene he said "All life form data... successfully copied!"
- In the Team Dark cutscene he said "Ultimate life form data... has been copied."
- In the Team Rose cutscene he said "Chaos data... has been copied!" (which he got from Chocola the Chao & Froggy)
There is no copying done in Team Chaotix's story
This means only 5 characters were copied at most in Heroes - if you want to exclude Tails (as some fans have because Metal can already fly), then 4 characters

Except he did say, to Team Chaotix at least: "You're all useless now that I've copied all your data!" So, I'm more inclined to believe I copied the data of everyone based on his own words like you did.

[Sonu23]

Silver and Shadow.


Idealism vs. Cynicism, it'd be more unique than the generic shonen rivalry people see with Sonic & Shadow at least.

Sonic and Shadow is Idealism vs. Cybicism.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

Sonic and Shadow is Idealism vs. Cybicism.

Silver is actually the more idealistic, and naive, than Sonic is, if anything.

[Johnny Boy]

I think an interesting one would be Tails and Charmy. It would be interesting and funny to see Tails' great maturity for his age clash with Charmy's immmaturity and playfulness.

[743-E.D. Missile]

Silver is actually the more idealistic, and naive, than Sonic is, if anything.

Hm....so what does that make the Sonic/Shadow Rivalry?

[Panda Cero]

In Heroes, Metal Sonic only copied Team Sonic, Shadow, and Chaos
- In the Team Sonic cutscene he said "All life form data... successfully copied!"
- In the Team Dark cutscene he said "Ultimate life form data... has been copied."
- In the Team Rose cutscene he said "Chaos data... has been copied!" (which he got from Chocola the Chao & Froggy)
There is no copying done in Team Chaotix's story
This means only 5 characters were copied at most in Heroes - if you want to exclude Tails (as some fans have because Metal can already fly), then 4 characters

Im guessing that Metal copied everyone seeing as he did say "All life form data, successfully copied"

Maybe in an ironic twist, Sonic's team was actually the last team to defeat the Egg Albatross, and Metal had already analyzed everyone else by the time they arrived

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

Hm....so what does that make the Sonic/Shadow Rivalry?

The who's the better Hedgehog? Honestly, I wouldn't bee too sure considering that their whole beef was during SA2 when Sonic was having run-ins with the military trying to arrest him.

[Rynnec]

Hm....so what does that make the Sonic/Shadow Rivalry?

Classic shounen-style "I'm superior to you" rivalry.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of Silver and Shadow's ideals clash, I've always enjoyed those types of rivalry's.

Sonic and Silver can have a "Cool rebel versus By-the-Books guy"-type rivalry too.

[Dan-imeJ86]

Has anybody said Gamma vs Omega?

Y'know? With Gamma coming back in Sonic Battle and at the end, he seemed to still be working for the egg shaped doc. And Omega hates anything Eggman has anything to do with.

I don't think SA1 Gamma would be able to deal with the mass that is Omega, but with E-102s Sonic Battle additions, I'd say he'd put up a good fight now. It'd be awesome, I reckon!!

Spurred on by Omega openly mentioning him in Heroes.

[Sonu23]

Hm....so what does that make the Sonic/Shadow Rivalry?

See Devil May Cry or Samurai Shamploo. It's more of a red oni vs. blue oni thing.

Edited by Sonu23, 23 May 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[FFWF]

Thanks for the Metal Sonic information. I wasn't clear on to what extent his being able to copy other character's abilities was actually an ongoing, recurring ability that we can assume to be a constant feature of the character - that is, if Metal Sonic were a main character in a main game again, would his copying abilities actually come up? As it stands, I think it could go either way. But that's a debate for another thread.

Yeah, the Metal Sonic vs Charmy and Silver vs Marine ones seem too implausible to me, but they were a minority.

Metal Sonic vs. Charmy - everyone else is tied up, Charmy's the only one who can take on Metal Sonic. Metal Sonic basically ignores and totally underestimates him, Charmy resents being so completely sidelined, and ultimately Charmy would save the day in some probably accidental and goofy way. You could pull it off, but I don't see the scenario actually happening.

Silver vs. Marine - future tech / psychokinesis vs. her improvised tech. Let's say they're in competition for something, Silver needs it to help the future, Marine needs it to help her world or Blaze, I guess they need to race for some reason? Silver dismisses her inventions as primitive, Marine is resentful - it actually starts looking a lot like Metal Sonic vs. Charmy. You have one combatant with every advantage, and another with none, and I can only see Marine coming out on top in such a contest simply because she's the underdog.

Grossly disproportionate rivalries don't really work because either the stronger one will always win by default, or the weaker one will always win because it's more dramatically satisfying. It seems to me that rivalries between these weak characters - Charmy, Marine, Cream, let's say Big - would work better as none of them really have any actual powers. I could also see a Marine vs. Tails tech battle - this is sort of implicit in Rush Adventure anyway, except Tails actually knows what he's doing. So Marine learns a thing or two from him and then they can actually compete on an equal level, Tails's industrial-level tech versus Marine's jungle tech. Could be quite satisfying, really, and if they'd done say a Sonic Rush Adventure 2, something like this would probably have happened.

[VEDJ-F]

That's not what I meant; I said that anyone could have a temporary conflict, but those wouldn't work as long term rivalries. They don't have a reason to have one.

[The Cheese]

Has anybody said Gamma vs Omega?

Well, no, because Gamma's already been killed. Twice, if I remember right. And many will still argue that bringing him back for a second time in Battle in the first place was a completely fucking stupid thing to do, if only because it detracts completely from his character development and the emotional impact that his SA1 ending carried. If you wanna go for the robot-on-robot kind of rivalry, there isn't really much left to choose from besides Metal Sonic, unless we're thinking of arbitarily bringing back someone as obscure as, say, Gmerl.

[Indigo Rush]

Except he did say, to Team Chaotix at least: "You're all useless now that I've copied all your data!" So, I'm more inclined to believe I copied the data of everyone based on his own words like you did.

Add to that, well...



...dat Espio tail.

[FFWF]

That's not what I meant; I said that anyone could have a temporary conflict, but those wouldn't work as long term rivalries. They don't have a reason to have one.

Duly noted; I agree. If none of these pairings have long-term rivalries already, I think their characters would need to be developed to the point where they could. As it stands at the moment, it ain't going to happen. Maybe the cast should have tiers of sorts to determine interaction. Metal Sonic and Charmy is never going to be a burning issue for game on game. Metal Sonic and Sonic? Or even Metal Sonic and Amy? That's quite different. ...Actually, Metal Sonic and Amy would be quite interesting as a rivalry on a couple of levels.

[Dan-imeJ86]

Well, no, because Gamma's already been killed. Twice, if I remember right. And many will still argue that bringing him back for a second time in Battle in the first place was a completely fucking stupid thing to do, if only because it detracts completely from his character development and the emotional impact that his SA1 ending carried. If you wanna go for the robot-on-robot kind of rivalry, there isn't really much left to choose from besides Metal Sonic, unless we're thinking of arbitarily bringing back someone as obscure as, say, Gmerl.

Aww, so cruel.
Wait...killed twice!? I know about an enemy in SA2 that resembled Gamma called E-1000, but the only connection is it's appearance. While it was specifically mentioned that "Chaos" Gamma was built with parts of the original E-102, he didn't die on Sonic Battle though. Your not counting Adventure and DX as two separate incidents are you? Or is there something I don't know?

Speaking of Metal Sonic. I remember thinking they could do something with him and Omega, considering how Heroes ended and all...I found the idea of Metal and Omega fighting over who gets to bring down Dr. Eggman amusing. But that would've only worked if they kept his freewill, which they didn't. Although Free Riders hints at his freewill returning.

I'm also partial to Chaotix vs Metal Sonic, or if you want to be more specific, Espio vs Metal Sonic. But the only reason for that is because when Espio appears in a Sonic story, so does Metal Sonic. (except for the game, Shadow The Hedgehog)

[VEDJ-F]

I'm also partial to Chaotix vs Metal Sonic, or if you want to be more specific, Espio vs Metal Sonic. But the only reason for that is because when Espio appears in a Sonic story, so does Metal Sonic. (except for the game, Shadow The Hedgehog)

And Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, as non-canon as that is.

Plus there's been numerous games where Metal Sonic has appeared and Espio hasn't.

Plus basing rivalries on something that meta just wouldn't work.

[American Ristar]

I support Knuckles versus Shadow. While similar on the surface, making them clash highlights how they're different.

Knuckles is easily angered, smashing faces is his thing. Shadow is probably slower to anger, but very vengeful.

Knuckles is duty bound to his island. Shadow is directionless, he spent a lot of time letting people tell him what to do.

They probably have respect for the other's abilities. Shadow might not have moral limits though, Knuckles does.

I also support Tails versus Amy on a playful level. "Sonic when is our next date!" "Leave us alone Amy we're busy."

[Sonu23]

I support Knuckles versus Shadow. While similar on the surface, making them clash highlights how they're different.

Knuckles is easily angered, smashing faces is his thing. Shadow is probably slower to anger, but very vengeful.

Knuckles is duty bound to his island. Shadow is directionless, he spent a lot of time letting people tell him what to do.

They probably have respect for the other's abilities. Shadow might not have moral limits though, Knuckles does.

I also support Tails versus Amy on a playful level. "Sonic when is our next date!" "Leave us alone Amy we're busy."

Really?, I though Shadow listened to people out of self interest. Not because he has no self independance. He would easily kill someone if he didn't like being under orders he doesn't agree with.

Edited by Sonu23, 24 May 2012 - 05:41 AM.

[The Cheese]

Wait...killed twice!? I know about an enemy in SA2 that resembled Gamma called E-1000, but the only connection is it's appearance. While it was specifically mentioned that "Chaos" Gamma was built with parts of the original E-102, he didn't die on Sonic Battle though.

Well he seemed pretty fucked up in Battle after Shadow was done with him, and I don't remember seeing him after that. Am I wrong? Can't say I've played the game for a while. Not that it detracts from my point any.

Speaking of Metal Sonic. I remember thinking they could do something with him and Omega, considering how Heroes ended and all...I found the idea of Metal and Omega fighting over who gets to bring down Dr. Eggman amusing. But that would've only worked if they kept his freewill, which they didn't. Although Free Riders hints at his freewill returning.

If nothing else, you could always contrast Omega's consistently rebellious attitude against Eggman with, as it stands now, Metal's more or less consistent loyalty to him to poke out a few interesting character exchanges. They really need not be on the same general side at all - if anything it'd be more interesting to see them conflict more than anything else.