Colours is the way forward

[Indigo Rush]

Sonic Colors was really fun and all, and it was really refreshing to see a consistent "3D" Sonic game that follows the average conventions of what we consider to be a "Sonic" game, and I'd certainly be in favor of taking ques from this game in further evolving Sonic's gameplay in the future.

But... what we got isn't enough for a consistent series. Unleashed, Colors and Generations kind of pushed all the boundaries that this gameplay style is capable of, as far as I know. It isn't bad, but it's far from being dynamic and pliable as the Genesis games were, or arguably, the Adventure titles.

Sonic Colors is the definitive modern Sonic game of it's time and style, but I think we should press on from here. It took me a while to accept that, but there's so much more that can be done than this.

[Mangoaxe5]

As a platform game Sonic Colors is fun, but as a Sonic game it's pretty bad. Most of the game's made up of 2-D areas, which is pretty disappointing for a 3-D game. Also the levels are too short. The game's story tries too hard to be funny. Plus the game really doesn't have much replay value.

[Alice Twilight]

Colors and Generations just feel dead to me.

I loved them both, but when you compare them to games like Unleashed and some other 3-D titles, it looks like they're taking steps back.

Colors and Generations have met their end.

There's not much you can expand upon or make the gameplay any deeper, it feels really dumbed down, compared to other titles. Still fun to play, just feels extremely limited.

[Kiah]

Sonic Colors being the way forward? Let's see what answer I come up with...

The game did get some things right. I tell you this game was a beauty to look at with graphics and level design, all the more impressive considering it was made for the Wii. Everything, from Tropical Resort to Terminal Velocity (I'm still undecided on what was my favorite in the game) was a true delight to look at in my opinion. I thought the writers for Sonic Colors did a good job to a degree. I didn't find the jokes bad nor excessive; I enjoyed them. I also thought the way they portrayed the bromance between Sonic and Tails was excellent. The soundtrack for the game was downright goregous. Might of been my favorite part of the whole game was listening to the music while playing.

As beautiful as the graphics were all around, having 6 Acts per zone felt a bit much. Having more zones and less acts per zone (like 3) would of been ideal. This would of worked too in Sonic Colors considering there were 3 different music tracks per zone. I think having all of these acts was an attempt to pad the game, but it failed miserably. As others have said the 3D aspect of the game was pretty much non-existant. I thought the boss fights were all wrong. They were too quick and easy to defeat and way too similar to one another. Another thing that I didn't like was the "Sonic Simulator". In short, it seemed like some kind of bad joke, being very boring. Whereas the writers did something things right, they got some things wrong too with some missed potentials to really amaze us with the story.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked Sonic Colors, but in the end I was disappointed. Amid all of the repetition and gimmicks the game was over way too fast, leaving me wanting more. Wanting more of a story and more gameplay. I sound like a broken record, as I pretty much have made the same complaints regarding Sonic Generations.

Now after typing all of that, I guess my answer is no, Sonic Colors should not be the way forward. The things that mentioned about the game in a positive manner like graphics, level design and music are pretty much standard in a Sonic game, (give or take a few exceptions). The exception being from Sonic and Tails' bromance, which really hasn't been present aside from Sonic Colors; that should definitely carry forward in future Sonic games, if nothing else from Sonic Colors.

[Emmett L. Brown]

If Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 2006, Sonic & the Secret Rings, Sonic & the Black Knight and Sonic Unleashed were steps backwards, then YES Sonic Colors was absolutely a huge step forward.

No guns, no broken physics, no godawful controls, no sword-swinging, and no Werehog. Just good, honest, Sonic the Hedgehog high-speed platfroming with some fun new power-ups that actually enhance the gameplay instead of detracting from it. It was the first Sonic game in a generation that didn't have anything objectively heinous or contrary to the theme of the series, so yes that was a huge step forward after having watched the series stumble backwards for too long.

Sonic Generations, which definitely drew major inspiration from Colors, was the best Sonic game I've played since Sonic3&K, so suck it nay-sayers (which is to say, your opinion is entirely valid, you have good points, and I encourage you to press for higher quality, but I needed something punchy at the end).

Edited June 11, 2012 by Grumpy Old Guy

[Boostitude]

Colors has so little 3D that...it really doesn't.

I don't completely disagree, but close enough for me.

[Alice Twilight]

If Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 2006, Sonic & the Secret Rings, Sonic & the Black Knight and Sonic Unleashed were steps backwards, then YES Sonic Colors was absolutely a huge step forward.

No guns, no broken physics, no godawful controls, no sword-swinging, and no Werehog. Just good, honest, Sonic the Hedgehog high-speed platfroming with some fun new power-ups that actually enhance the gameplay instead of detracting from it. It was the first Sonic game in a generation that didn't have anything objectively heinous or contrary to the theme of the series, so yes that was a huge step forward after having watched the series stumble backwards for too long.

Sonic Generations, which definitely drew major inspiration from Colors, was the best Sonic game I've played since Sonic3&K, so suck it nay-sayers (which is to say, your opinion is entirely valid, you have good points, and I encourage you to press for higher quality, but I needed something punchy at the end).

Sounds like Nostalgia to me at best.

I really don't think Sonic's stumbled all that much, it's exaggeration at best. Colors takes a step back for me because it just doesn't try anything new except for the colorful wisps to change how you travel the level. Not really a step in any direction just a gimmick that we'll never see again, until Generations for 1 level.

The games you've mentioned, well, most of them are spin off games.

Including Shadow (guns were optional to use) And the wii games were atleast trying to do something new with the hardware it's on. So those are step forwards.

Unleashed was a major step forward however, it pretty much changed the way Sonic plays today and now, they've stuck to that gameplay formula ever since.

Generations...eh what did that do?

Nothing, just catered to our nostalgia and even that wore out pretty quickly it features the same gameplay as Unleashed and Classic Sonic gameplay from the old games

Stuff we've already seen before, it actually becomes quite boring after a while.

Oh and Generations drew inspiration from Unleashed since that's where it all started.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Alice Twilight

[Voyant]

Colors and Generations just feel dead to me.

I loved them both, but when you compare them to games like Unleashed and some other 3-D titles, it looks like they're taking steps back.

Colors and Generations have met their end.

There's not much you can expand upon or make the gameplay any deeper, it feels really dumbed down, compared to other titles. Still fun to play, just feels extremely limited.

I'm still trying to figure this out myself...I love Colors and Generations...still play them to this day...well...just Generations.

But still...why is it that Unleashed seems to deliver more on some occasions...I just don't get it. Generations just didn't surpass Unleashed at it best...and I can't put my finger on WHY.

At this point...I wished the guy who was working on Unleashed didn't go to Square...that man had a lot of talent. Perhaps he took the secret with him.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Voyant

[Emmett L. Brown]

Sounds like Nostalgia to me at best.

I really don't think Sonic's stumbled all that much, it's exaggeration at best. Colors takes a step back for me because it just doesn't try anything new except for the colorful wisps to change how you travel the level. Not really a step in any direction just a gimmick that we'll never see again, until Generations for 1 level.

The games you've mentioned, well, most of them are spin off games.

Including Shadow (guns were optional to use) And the wii games were atleast trying to do something new with the hardware it's on. So those are step forwards.

Unleashed was a major step forward however, it pretty much changed the way Sonic plays today and now, they've stuck to that gameplay formula ever since.

Generations...eh what did that do?

Nothing, just catered to our nostalgia and even that wore out pretty quickly it features the same gameplay as Unleashed and Classic Sonic gameplay from the old games

Stuff we've already seen before, it actually becomes quite boring after a while.

Oh and Generations drew inspiration from Unleashed since that's where it all started.

Which goes to show how different our reactions can be based on what we pick up the game wanting to experience; beacuse I absolutely loved Colours and Generations, and have found them to have the highest replayability of any Sonic game in a decade and a half. They're just simply fun to play. That's all I've ever wanted in a Sonic game, and these games deliver that with bells on. All those other games I listed were fun, yes, but you had to get through painful chores to be rewarded with brief periods of enjoyement. Spin-off games are not excluded from the qualification of being fun.

Kudos to Unleashed for reinventing the formula, but then it went and ruined it by making half the game...well, a genre I didn't pay for and never wanted in the Sonic franchise. None of the Werehog levels were fun - they were a tedious chore that I only slogged through because I really wanted to see what the next Sonic level would be like. Except Egg Dragoon. That one was fun, I'll give 'em that.

What's wrong with nostalgia? When I want to feel like a kid again, I really do want Mario and Sonic to deliver on just that. When I want something serious, I'll play Skyrim or Arkham City or Mass Effect or something like that. When I just want to have fun, I'll play a Sonic game like Colours or Generations. Easy to pick up and play, colourful, fast-paced gameplay that lends itself well towards repeat playthroughs. What did Generations do? It got the formula right. I'd grown so used to Sonic games requiring you to deal with frustration if you wanted fun that I'd forgotten that a Sonic game could be fun through and through.

And since I clearly haven't been repeating myself:

Fun funnety fun fun FUUUUN fun fun funfunfun!!!

[Ekaje]

Sounds like Nostalgia to me at best.

I really don't think Sonic's stumbled all that much, it's exaggeration at best. Colors takes a step back for me because it just doesn't try anything new except for the colorful wisps to change how you travel the level. Not really a step in any direction just a gimmick that we'll never see again, until Generations for 1 level.

The games you've mentioned, well, most of them are spin off games.

Including Shadow (guns were optional to use) And the wii games were atleast trying to do something new with the hardware it's on. So those are step forwards.

Unleashed was a major step forward however, it pretty much changed the way Sonic plays today and now, they've stuck to that gameplay formula ever since.

Generations...eh what did that do?

Nothing, just catered to our nostalgia and even that wore out pretty quickly it features the same gameplay as Unleashed and Classic Sonic gameplay from the old games

Stuff we've already seen before, it actually becomes quite boring after a while.

Oh and Generations drew inspiration from Unleashed since that's where it all started.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Ekaje

[Alice Twilight]

What did Generations do? It got the formula right. I'd grown so used to Sonic games requiring you to deal with frustration if you wanted fun that I'd forgotten that a Sonic game could be fun through and through.

[Kuzu]

The formula was there in Unleashed.. And as the other person who quoted me said. Generations was just a level pack almost

They really need to do something new soon, because other wise it's going to get really old to even those who haven't grown tired of it yet. Colors is an exception because it had something to give the Unleashed gameplay variety. Then afterwards it just went back to basics with Unleashed.

That's a step back.

[Semi-colon e]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand the complaint that Generations does nothing new, it's like the whole point of the game. Yeah okay the Unleashed gameplay style isn't really any different aside from better level design, but it's not like Classic Sonic is any better in this regard either. Actually, it's worse, but there you go. Even if it was 1:1 in terms of control and physics, it in itself wouldn't have made any significant leaps in this game. I can totally appreciate the wishes for something newer next time, or even in Sonic 4, but Generations was always intended as a nostalgia trip and nothing more. Had the Classic series churned out loads of sequels, they would have also begun to feel like Mission Pack Sequels eventually.

It's also kind of amusing that the only 100% "new" part of Generations (the Time Eater) is the part that sucks the most, but that's probably more to do with it being the end of the game, which tends to be the one of the best or worst parts of a game, particularly in the Sonic series.

One thing I will say about Colours though, it feels like one of the few games that isn't "trying" to be something. Like how the 06 and Shadow stuff "tried" to be darker, like how Sonic 4 and a lesser extent Generations "tried" to be Classic, Colours just did it's own thing and stuck with it with no pretenses, aside from using a modified Unleashed formula (modified for the worse in terms of how half the moveset was context specific, but there you go).

Edited June 11, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Kuzu]

I think the difference between the classics, and generations is that the former has far less restrictive gameplay, meaning it had more room to grow and expand without feeling......bounded;

To compare:

Sonic 2 introduced the spindash, Tails as a co-op partner, the levels were bigger, the chaos emerald count went to 7, and Super Sonic.

Sonic Colors gave us the Wisp, and a double jump, but the levels are smaller than in Unleashed.

Sonic 3 & K: Gave us Tails` flight, Knuckles, Hyper Forms, bigger and more levels, transition between the levels, the elemental shields.

Sonic Generations: Smaller levels than Unleashed, brings back Classic Sonic, and nerfs most of Sonic's moves from Unleashed.

As big improvements that Colors and Genrations were over Unleashed, they're nothing compared to the changes made to the classics from Sonic 1, and I think that's why people tend to be more forgiving towards them.

[Diogenes]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand the complaint that Generations does nothing new, it's like the whole point of the game.

[Nepenthe]

I think the difference between the classics, and generations is that the former has far less restrictive gameplay, meaning it had more room to grow and expand without feeling......bounded;

To compare:

Sonic 2 introduced the spindash, Tails as a co-op partner, the levels were bigger, the chaos emerald count went to 7, and Super Sonic.

Sonic Colors gave us the Wisp, and a double jump, but the levels are smaller than in Unleashed.

Sonic 3 & K: Gave us Tails` flight, Knuckles, Hyper Forms, bigger and more levels, transition between the levels, the elemental shields.

Sonic Generations: Smaller levels than Unleashed, brings back Classic Sonic, and nerfs most of Sonic's moves from Unleashed.

As big improvements that Colors and Genrations were over Unleashed, they're nothing compared to the changes made to the classics from Sonic 1, and I think that's why people tend to be more forgiving towards them.

[Kuzu]

Thing is, the only difference you named there that seems to even approach being an actual meaningful addition to the actual gameplay formula is the Spin Dash. Everything else you noted either has no actual impact on the gameplay (level length, transitions, Emerald number, etc.), or is something that the modern formula is already perfectly capable of anyway which we can assume with great certainty by just taking a gander at Colors. Really, the formula is not at fault here, but rather Sonic Team's insistence on appeasing a crowd that insists on things like "no characters" and "Sonic only gameplay." It's a modus operandi that's noticeably been stifling everything, even the attempts to revive classic gameplay.

[Nepenthe]

But notice how everyone here echoes Color's mediocrity; other than the wisp it doesn't really do anything that substantial for the series; the game is 80% 2D, and very generic 2D at that, and the 3D sections that are there are mostly straight lines. Yeah, you can add what I just said to the Modern formula but it wouldn't eliminate the inherent flaws that it has.

[Diogenes]

We don't even know what they might do with other characters as applied to the gameplay style yet,

I would imagine "not much". I just don't see how they can meaningfully integrate the other characters' abilities into gameplay that is so focused on boosting through obstacle courses.

... amidst the opposing viewpoint that bringing classic gameplay back wholesale- basically just "copying it" as is popularly cited- is all we need.

I would like to state for the record that this is not my viewpoint.

[Nepenthe]

I would imagine "not much". I just don't see how they can meaningfully integrate the other characters' abilities into gameplay that is so focused on boosting through obstacle courses.

I disagree. Again, we already caught a glimpse of this with Colors; changing the parameters of Sonic's abilities and speed, as well as the level design to be more vertically layered to help cater a power-up system pretty much makes Colors feel like a relatively different game despite its modern trappings, a game idea with its own particular avenues to go down and stretch to the limit as a result. But as only power-ups and not full-fledged characters, I consider the Wisps the tip of the iceberg in that regard.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Diogenes]

The problem I have with the wisp powers is that they don't integrate with the core gameplay. Both in the sense that they replace the gameplay rather than adding to it (compare to Mario; the fire flower lets you throw fireballs in addition to your normal moves, the leaf lets you fly/slow fall/tail whack in addition to your normal moves, etc, where in Colors the drill is Just Drill, the laser is Just Laser, etc), and that they don't really work with the boosting gameplay that makes up the core of modern Sonic, and only really work with the tacked-on platforming. The latter is, in part, because of the former, but I don't think it would improve much if the powers were free to use. If Tails were essentially Sonic with an unlimited supply of hover wisps, the boost-heavy sections wouldn't be any different, since there's basically no reason to use hover there.

[Kuzu]

I'm not retracting my opinion on Colors' level of quality, rather pointing out that the modern gameplay isn't incapable of meaningful additions to its own formula as well. We don't even know what they might do with other characters as applied to the gameplay style yet, so this insistence that it's reached its absolute potential and can't do anymore is absolutely fucking bonkers to me. People will insist on the formula's peak on their lives and yet cannot supply a remotely correct answer to that hypothetical at all.

Then please tell me what can really be done with the formula, because right now it's entire basis is speed and nothing more, now unless you make every single character have a boost button and stick them in the same stages, some changes are going to be made to the Modern formula, changes that will probably feel completely different from it's Unleashed roots.

Any "improvements" to the Modern formula will ultimately change it from what it was and what people like about it, otherwise it's going to continue being exactly the same as it was, otherwise Generations would've actually done something substantial with it rather than just old stages.

I'm not sick of modern gameplay and neither are many other people, and I do think it still has some meaningful avenues to explore. I also think classic gameplay has been stale for well over a decade and don't really want that back as a result, but strangely enough that feels like a meaningless appeal amidst the opposing viewpoint that bringing classic gameplay back wholesale- basically just "copying it" as is popularly cited- is all we need.

Then it really just comes to preference, but honestly, you can claim Modern gameplay has all of this meaning, but where is it? If the Modern gameplay has so much depth and complexity, why is it that Colors and Generations offer very little in terms of expansion? Even you acknowledge the lack of creativity in this regard, so please tell me how am I suppose to believe this supposed "depth" if the games have yet to show it to me? And no, I'm not advocating that Classic gameplay is the end all, be all here but I'm more than fully aware that a lot more was done with it's gameplay than what's being done with the modern gameplay of today.

[Scar]

In my eyes, the biggest flaw in the current setup is the two-mode movement.

When moving slowly (under a certain speed) you have full 360 directional control, as you'd expect, I call this "Good controls mode". Physics are accurate and everything. However, as soon as you reach a certain minimum speed, you firstly just instantly trasmit to a higher speed and Sonic's control instantly changes to what I call "boost mode", where you have extremely limited directional control.

The two-mode control does nothing useful. It just completely segregates rapid movement from slower movement. In all honesty, the "Good controls mode" should scale up directly to higher speeds, rather than changing once you reach an arbitrary speed.

Change this, and a number of issues will sort themselves out automatically. Sure it wouldn't be perfect still - further refinements would still need to be made, but it would feel a whole lot more natural - and that's basically half of what makes Sonic, Sonic.

[Nepenthe]

Then please tell me what can really be done with the formula, because right now it's entire basis is speed and nothing more, now unless you make every single character have a boost button and stick them in the same stages, some changes are going to be made to the Modern formula, changes that will probably feel completely different from it's Unleashed roots.

Any "improvements" to the Modern formula will ultimately change it from what it was and what people like about it, otherwise it's going to continue being exactly the same as it was, otherwise Generations would've actually done something substantial with it rather than just old stages.

If the formula's only basis is speed, please explain away why Colors and even Generations are slower and feature a greater abundance of platforming-oriented and vertical level design that's completely impossible to dash through; and remember, that's two out of three modern titles we're talking about here. Pegging the formula down as being incapable of providing anything else but speed is something I can only consider a falsity in light of what we've all actually played before.

In terms of Generations, I could ask the same question about classic gameplay; why didn't Sonic Team reach into this well of potential everyone claims it has, especially since that was the first time the gameplay was applied to a 3D environment? But I wouldn't ask that question, because it and the obvious implication that not trying equates to no potential is inherently ridiculous when you understand the context behind Generations' existence. It didn't seek to do anything new.

Then it really just comes to preference, but honestly, you can claim Modern gameplay has all of this meaning, but where is it? If the Modern gameplay has so much depth and complexity, why is it that Colors and Generations offer very little in terms of expansion? Even you acknowledge the lack of creativity in this regard, so please tell me how am I suppose to believe this supposed "depth" if the games have yet to show it to me? And no, I'm not advocating that Classic gameplay is the end all, be all here but I'm more than fully aware that a lot more was done with it's gameplay than what's being done with the modern gameplay of today.

I don't understand how Colors alone does not blatantly offer avenues for expansion when it it a fundamentally different game in terms of pacing, design, progression, and goals than Unleashed in the first place. I also don't understand why just the question of "How would Tails and Knuckles play in a modern style?" is completely meaningless. Furthermore, I don't understand why people selectively ignore Sonic Team's insistence to conservative game design because they are trying to respond to public pressure to be conservative, and that this insistence has had a negative impact on every single facet of Sonic games and does not directly correlate to a complete lack of potential that modern Sonic games weild.

[Diogenes]

If the formula's only basis is speed, please explain away why Colors and even Generations are slower and feature a greater abundance of platforming-oriented and vertical level design that's completely impossible to dash through; and remember, that's two out of three modern titles we're talking about here.

The platforming in Colors and Generations doesn't work with the rest of the game's mechanics. Boosting will likely throw you into a wall (if you're lucky) or a pit (if you're not). Quick step? No. Drift? No. Slide? Maybe very rarely. The platforming is generally very barebones, limited to jumping, homing attacking (which is of dubious merit), and the occasional stomp. It's not an expansion of modern gameplay, it's a generic platformer tacked onto modern gameplay.

In terms of Generations, I could ask the same question about classic gameplay; why didn't Sonic Team reach into this well of potential everyone claims it has,

Because they are incompetent, lazy, stupid, or some combination. When they couldn't (or couldn't be bothered) to get the base gameplay right, it's no wonder they didn't expand on it. But the modern gameplay is their baby, something they are directly responsible for (unless the team's been changed up since Unleashed, I don't know, I don't keep track of that stuff), something they actually understand how to do. So they should have the ability to expand on it, if there's room to do so.

Furthermore, I don't understand why people selectively ignore Sonic Team's insistence to conservative game design because they are trying to respond to public pressure to be conservative, and that this insistence has had a negative impact on every single facet of Sonic games and does not directly correlate to a complete lack of potential that modern Sonic games weild.

I don't ignore it, and I agree that it alone doesn't constitute proof that the modern gameplay can't evolve. But I can't see a path for it myself, and they aren't offering anything to prove me wrong.