102 replies to this topic

[Burnt Ash]

I guess the topic is what the title implies: talking about ShTH's good and bad points. Well, why not start this off with a bit of history? Typical Yacker the 2nd topic style.

Shadow the Hedgehog was a game based on Shadow, who in this game, goes on an adventure to remember his past. In this game, there are three forces trying to defeat/control Shadow: The GUN Commander, Dr. Eggman, and Black Doom. To some extent, each of these characters have a significant impact on Shadow's past. Long story short, that's the story of ShTH.

Then we hit the gameplay. The gameplay is reminiscent of the speed gameplay from Sonic Heroes. However ShTH adds something new to the Sonic series: the usage of guns and other weaponry. The use of weapons is somewhat beneficial to the flow of the game as you can either spend a good chunk of time mashing the jump button, or you can go through enemies with ease while using weapons. In addition to weaponry, ShTH also takes some cues for SA2 and provides vehicles for you to use. While the vehicles may control like crap, for the most part, it's pretty inoffensive as the game never really forces you to use them (well, except for those poisonous river sequences), unlike a certain other game.

Now for the controls. I think the TSS review of ShTH put it nicely: It's like Sonic Heroes on ice. Which essentially means that it's pretty hard to get the hang of it. However, while the controls stink the first time through, if you can get used to it, it's alright, I suppose. How do the guns control/are used? Well, most guns in the game automatically aim at the enemy, while the bazooka type weapons require you to manually aim yourself. The swords for the most part pretty much have you mash the attack button repeatedly. It's pretty cool how you can use a speed limit sign as a weapon though.

Well, I think that's a semi-decent summary(?) of the game.
Personally, I think the game had some pretty good levels like Sky Troops, and some pretty good music, and the occasional good cutscene. However, I dislike using the weapons despite that you kinda have to use them if you want to get through the levels quickly.

Anyway, that's the OP I guess. Thoughts on the topic?

[Sixth-Rate Soma]

The Good: It's by far the best comedy game of this generation.

[Marionette Cherry]

Good

- Gameplay is alright not as bad as people make it out to be
- Music has some of my favorite tracks in the series
- Everything is optional (hurrr, i hate how you have to use guns!!!)
- Neat twist on the series

Bad
- Game really needs a homing reticule
- Damn and Hell are forced, it's okay to say it. But they really make sure you know they're cursing
- Final Boss was worse than Time eater
- Kill X amount of enemies isn't fun.

Edited by Alice Twilight, 17 June 2012 - 04:19 AM.

[y cant solkia crawl]

The Good: It's by far the best comedy game of this generation.

*last generation

Meh, I had fun with it. I thought the guns and swords were pretty fun. The missions are a bunch of ass though.

I liked using the chaos powers, It was fun to just blow past sections of a level with Chaos Control.

The story and the writing were extremely out of place.

[Soniman]

Good
Music

Bad
Everything Else

Edited by The Groosenator, 17 June 2012 - 04:23 AM.

[Aqua]

the good: Digital circuit is a good stage visual and music wise. and it still somewhat resembles a sonic game that involves speed.

The bad: story is horrible and not sonic and the gameplay is pretty broken. oh and vehicles are pretty bad.

Edited by Sora, 17 June 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[Diogenes]

The Bad: Everything
The Good: Everything else

[LunarEdge]

Not liking the game all around, I did like the introduction level... the music and presentation was pretty badass if you ask me. Also, the one thing that bothered me that stood out was out everything was a little TOO BIG. Rings, level structures, items... just too big...


also... lack of watermelon slices

[UltDevilDoom]

The game had more than a few problems, but I liked it. However, I admit I may be somewhat biast on that topic because Shadow is my favorite character.

I also think that people can be unfair to it. If you haven't played it, don't say either good or bad things about it. Play it first.

[Octarine]

I'm inclined to cut Shadow the Hedgehog a lot of slack because the basic idea behind it was so ludicrously dumb that the end result would probably have been terrible no matter what it was. And also because I bought it very cheap and went into it expecting a disaster.

It's not all that terrible to play, honestly; it's very, very mediocre, but it's rarely as frustrating as '06 or as boring as Heroes. There are some really nice level aesthetics mixed in with all of the destroyed cities, and the number of levels is fairly impressive for a post-SA2 Sonic game (even if the method for unlocking them is really dumb). The music is mostly pretty decent, and a couple of songs are actually really nice.

I'm also weirdly fond of ShtH's story. As far as I'm concerned, it's the perfect modern recreation of a classic sci-fi B-movie: it's convoluted, silly and over-the-top, with terrible-looking aliens and awkward dialogue, but everything about it is played completely straight in the best possible way. Someone at SEGA really thought that a magic hedgehog on a motorcycle fighting his alien dad with guns was the coolest thing ever, and that total lack of irony is both endearing and completely hilarious. The B-movie feeling even extends to the direction of the cutscenes, which reaches downright Ed Wood levels at times. I find Heroes' cutscenes embarrassing, and while '06 shares many of Shadow's "qualities", it's often more boring than funny. Shadow is just too ridiculous not to love.

Edited by Octarine, 17 June 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[Prownage]

I've said this before, but some of the levels in Shadow the hedgehog were actually quite well designed. The platforming was pretty decent and there were a few unique ideas like rotating platforms or finding new routes by changing the magma level. I really liked how there were more open stages as well which allowed for great amounts of exploration. The lost impact and Central City were some of my favorite levels because they felt so non-linear. It was a bit frustrating at times when you got lost, and the collect-'em-all missions didn't really help either. But such open levels really are a nice change of pace from the more linear stages we've had in recent games. The levels had a lot more depth and had lots of different routes.

But yeah, as certain games have already proven, good level design alone does not a good game make if the physics and controls are shit. The spin dash in ShTH has no use whatsoever. It doesn't matter whether you spin up or downhill. There's no momentum at all and the controls are so stiff that it doesn't even have a use as an attack. The running controls on the other hand are so loose and slippery that it makes it incredibly easy to run into enemies and pits. And the enemies are everywhere, which wouldn't be such a problem if you didn't need to destroy them in order to advance in the stage which in some cases results in destroying your "allies".There are some pretty bad glitches as well, for example after chaos control, the floor doesn't appear and you just end up floating in the air without any control. Passing through floors and walls is no problem for Shadow either, but it certainly is for the player who is already experiencing enough trouble with the bad controls. >.>

Well, the music was decent but that is to be expected. I did like the story progression though. It was a neat idea, but was ruined of course completely by the terrible plot and writing. As far as guns and vehicles go, there were a few decent ideas but in the end the game would have played just the same without them had they also reduced the amount of enemies. Yeah, if the game played more like SA/SA2, I really could have enjoyed it. As it is now, I have all A-ranks and I did complete the expert mode, but I see no reason to come back to it.

[Marionette Cherry]

I've yet to see evidence of terrible writing.
People mention it. But I don't see any examples, step it up people. Back up your complaints without parroting please.

[Semi-colon e]

I found Lethal Highway, Circus Park, and G.U.N Fortress to be pretty fun, and the music for all 3 was great. Other than that... nah. I used to like this more than Heroes, but I played both again recently and I just can't agree with my past self.

The guns actually worked okay though, but the vehicles were beyond terrible. It's hilarious to use the motorbike in Lethal Highway though.

Edited by Semi-colon e, 17 June 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Prownage]

I've yet to see evidence of terrible writing.
People mention it. But I don't see any examples, step it up people. Back up your complaints without parroting please.

"The doctor's actions and words..." The first time I saw this, I hadn't even encountered Eggman in the entire game yet. Also, Commander blames Shadow for his family's death after he admits he had no family. Some first class writing here folks.

I also find it hilarious how Espio says "Stop it, we can't let Eggman know we're here." while you are fighting Eggman in his Egg Breaker. I'm also a bit confused by Sonic's "We are on our way to the Ark so I guess that means we're going too." line. I'm not sure if that's some kind of odd saying but to me it doesn't make much sense.

And I'll just leave this here just for the heck of it.


There are more cases I could mention but I hope this clarifies things enough for you.

[Gabe]

Honestly, I think Shadow the Hedgehog could had worked if it didn't star Shadow and overall had no association with the Sonic franchise. That, or there was no ending in the game that established itself in the canon, and considering the plot altogether, didn't take itself seriously. (At all.) But I still like the game as it is anyway.

The choice to follow a hero/neutral/dark path with the many possible outcomes were pretty cool, and made some neat replay value. In addition I did like some of the levels it had. Also, weapons, which IMO made the game quite fun with their uses of them. I also did like the fact that the minor plot point of Eggman's Shadow Androids introduced in Heroes made a return in the game, I'm hoping they reappear as a central plot point in a future Sonic game. And Chaos Blast is awesome, nuff' said.

On the other I didn't really like the graphics and the overall visual style of the game, IMO the graphics just seemed like a downgrade from that of Sonic Heroes, and the artstyle for everything was just too dark and dull. Also will echo that the game's controls, (some of the) missions, and HA were quite frustrating to use/play through as well. I could end up sinking a lot of time trying to finish looking for something to destroy, or find Shadow blasting off in the air or off the ground into the many bottomless pits the game had.

[The Cheese]

- Everything is optional (hurrr, i hate how you have to use guns!!!)

I don't get why people defend ShTH with a point like this as if I'm supposed to concede it as a point in its favour. Do people actually think it's entertaining to HA the same damn enemy sometimes for a whole 30 seconds on end instead of emptying an MP5 mag at it for 2? Do people think it's tolerable to give bosses the amount of health they had and expect fruitlessly to get any halfway decent rank just by spamming the jump button? Do people actually think it's possible to make it through Prison Island without using a vehicle, Last Story without Chaos Control, or even get that far without exhausting every possible story outcome first? What kind of reasoning is this supposed to be?

[Marionette Cherry]

I don't get why people defend ShTH with a point like this as if I'm supposed to concede it as a point in its favour. Do people actually think it's entertaining to HA the same damn enemy sometimes for a whole 30 seconds on end instead of emptying an MP5 mag at it for 2? Do people think it's tolerable to give bosses the amount of health they had and expect fruitlessly to get any halfway decent rank just by spamming the jump button? Do people actually think it's possible to make it through Prison Island without using a vehicle, Last Story without Chaos Control, or even get that far without exhausting every possible story outcome first? What kind of reasoning is this supposed to be?

It's a point worth bringing up. Do what you want to do with the game. Want to kill a boss by using the homing attack? Then do so.
Want to kill it with a gun? Why not? Your game. Do what you will with it.

Your argument is flawed

Step it up.

"The doctor's actions and words..." The first time I saw this, I hadn't even encountered Eggman in the entire game yet. Also, Commander blames Shadow for his family's death after he admits he had no family. Some first class writing here folks.

I also find it hilarious how Espio says "Stop it, we can't let Eggman know we're here." while you are fighting Eggman in his Egg Breaker. I'm also a bit confused by Sonic's "We are on our way to the Ark so I guess that means we're going too." line. I'm not sure if that's some kind of odd saying but to me it doesn't make much sense.
There are more cases I could mention but I hope this clarifies things enough for you.

i mean yeah, Sonic has been known for its 10/10 emmy award winning cutscenes right?
I love how people ignore this and bash Shadow.

Edited by Alice Twilight, 17 June 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[The Cheese]

It's a point worth bringing up. Do what you want to do with the game. Want to kill a boss by using the homing attack? Then do so.
Want to kill it with a gun? Why not.

Your argument is flawed

Step it up.

I don't really see how my argument is flawed when doing anything other than what the game expects you to do inarguably results in the game becoming increasingly shit. But of course, how dare I expect the most desperate of logical fallacies coming from a game of the likes of this.

You might as well have argued that guns are optional in an actual shooter game. While that may occasionally be true to some extent, that doesn't make it a particularly appealing option.

[Diogenes]

- Everything is optional (hurrr, i hate how you have to use guns!!!)

Yeah because homing attacking an enemy for 30 seconds straight is a valid alternative. That you're technically able to beat most of the game without any kind of weapon doesn't excuse them because 1) They're a terrible addition to the series, both in gameplay and tone, regardless, and 2) Foregoing them makes the game several orders of magnitude more tedious than it already is because you can't do significant damage otherwise.

I've yet to see evidence of terrible writing.

Because of the "choose your path" system, the plot proceeds basically at random; Shadow has no actual control over anything and is just shuttled around at random. None of your choices have any consequence (raise the ruins or not? Doesn't matter, if you head to Sky Troops they'll be flying regardless), and the game throws out any pretense of choice with the last story, forcing Shadow to be a hero regardless of what you want. There was no basis for shoving aliens into his backstory; it was a complete blind twist to an already overwrought backstory. The game very nearly ignores entirely what was set up for it, with the Shadow androids confined to two levels that aren't even relevant to the real plot of the game. The big mystery, the main reason anyone gave a shit about the game, is tucked away in a single line 9 minutes into the final boss fight, rather than being addressed as part of the actual story. Most of the Last Story basically has the cast fellating Shadow almost as much as his fans do. And I'm sure I could come up with plenty more if I wouldn't rather purge the game from my memory.

[Prownage]

i mean yeah, Sonic has been known for its 10/10 emmy award winning cutscenes right?
I love how people ignore this and bash Shadow.

And this is relevant because..? The fact that a game which was released 6 years earlier also had awkward dialogue somehow makes bad writing excusable in ShTH? I don't really see how that works.