Your Ideal Sonic Game?

[Crystal Slave]

I think each of us has our own fantasies as to what the perfect Sonic game would be. I'm interested to see what everyone else would think of as the "ideal" Sonic game, but first, here's mine (I'll save the most important for last):

• Fully 3D. I enjoyed the Genesis titles as much as the next guy, but after 21 years, it's time to move on, at least for the main series games. Sonic needs to dive head-on into 3D gameplay to really nail it.

• Bring back the spindash, and make it useful. I really liked the mechanics of the spindash in Sonic Adventure. Some people claim it's "broken," but I completely disagree. Let me explain: it's simple to use. Tap the B button for a quick spin, tap to exit the spin. Charge for a longer spin. Sure, if you tap the B button repeatedly, you'll speed through the level, but it's only useful to do that if you're actually good at the game, and can do it strategically to find shortcuts and blaze through longer sections of the level.

• No boosting. Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure were probably the only two games where boosting really felt appropriate. Leave it out of the 3D titles, so the player can focus on Sonic-style platforming action.

• Use of other buttons than B for actions. Need I say more?

• Get rid of the instant light-dash. Yes, you read that right. Having an instant light dash is often really glitchy and frustrating, especially if the button you use to do it is used for other actions as well. I liked how in the first Adventure game, you could charge up, walk around and jump, and then light dash whenever you needed to. And I can't recall a single time that I died because of a failed light speed dash in that game, as opposed to Adventure 2 and Heroes, where it got to be very frustrating. Also, I think it was really cool how (once you have the Ancient Light) the light speed dash targets enemies.

• Revamp the homing attack. There was a topic about this that I fully agreed with. Also, the idea of a spindash or ground-based homing attack would make things really interesting.

• Adventure Fields are good. I really enjoy the ability to just run around and discover things on the Adventure Fields in Sonic Adventure, whether it's a power-up (which were really cool, and I'd also like to see in future titles) or a transport to another Adventure Field, or the entrance to a level, or heck, even a hidden emblem, I think they would make any Sonic title a lot more fun.

• Beautiful levels. One of the things that attracts me most to any Sonic game is the appearance of the levels. I love a level that is unique, and really awe-inspiring to look at. We all know Sonic 06 was a terrible game, but Kingdom Valley for instance is a very pretty level. Future Sonic titles should focus on making the most beautiful levels possible, and a dash of realism always makes levels more enjoyable for me.

• A sense of adventure. This pertains partly to the story, and partly to the game as a whole. When I play a Sonic game, I want to feel like I'm exploring, discovering, and really embarking on an epic journey with depth and intrigue.

That's all I have to say for now. What do you guys think?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Ideal Sonic Game: Sonic Freerunner + a budget.

Alternatively, one could make a Colors-esque game with world-building from Unleashed, writing from TBK, and a Tails mode kind of like SA's. Yes.

[Burnt Ash]

Eh, I wouldn't really like the charge up light dash back again. It's the fault of the button mapping...not the move itself.

[Soniman]

-Fully 3D

-Momentum (ala SA1) with wide open level design (in a linear fashion)

-A plethora of characters to choose from ranging from Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Shadow.

-Decently told story with some depth.

Edited June 30, 2012 by The Noodle

[colorfulzones104]

• More interactions between certain characters
  
• Good controls
  
• Cutscenes that match the look of the gameplay better
  
• Nice-looking graphics(though we already have this)
  
• Creative story line
  

Edited July 3, 2012 by colorfulzones104

[Diogenes]

e: To expand a bit, I'm pretty sure that track is automated (in so much as all you need to do is floor it and you'll be tossed exactly where you need to go), and something like that would be unplayable if it were meant as an actual track. Also that it doesn't address any kind of slower-paced sections or platforming, so it's not a full picture of what I want out of a Sonic game. But in terms of going fast? Rocketing around curves? Flying through the air? Why are we not doing this.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Diogenes

[Soniman]

e: To expand a bit, I'm pretty sure that track is automated (in so much as all you need to do is floor it and you'll be tossed exactly where you need to go), and something like that would be unplayable if it were meant as an actual track. Also that it doesn't address any kind of slower-paced sections or platforming, so it's not a full picture of what I want out of a Sonic game. But in terms of going fast? Rocketing around curves? Flying through the air? Why are we not doing this.

It's not really ideal if it only satisfies one or two of the needed criteria to make a ideal Sonic game now is it?

[Kuzu]

e: To expand a bit, I'm pretty sure that track is automated (in so much as all you need to do is floor it and you'll be tossed exactly where you need to go), and something like that would be unplayable if it were meant as an actual track. Also that it doesn't address any kind of slower-paced sections or platforming, so it's not a full picture of what I want out of a Sonic game. But in terms of going fast? Rocketing around curves? Flying through the air? Why are we not doing this.

I got motion sickness from watching that.

I could go on and on about gameplay, but I'd like some additional content please: Artworks, Concept art, Soundtracks, unlockables content that will want me to play the game after finishing it.

Also, I want every main character to have their own story scenario ala Sonic Adventure 1; it's the best way to divide focus of the story among the main characters without taking too much or too little away from Sonic, and only Sonic's would be required to finish the game, everyone else's would be optional scenarios that detail what those characters were doing when they weren't with Sonic at the time.

[Sarah Jane Smith]

Multiple characters without different game mechanics. Just different moves. Like S3&K/SAdv.

[#EndyGate]

-A variety of playable characters: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Big, Gemerl. Each character would have their own take on the core Sonic formula with several quirks to differentiate themselves from others (ex. Sonic has the homing attack and wall jump, Tails can fly, Knuckles can glide and climb, Amy & Cream can spin jump (former has a hammer, latter has her chao), Big can use his fishing rod as a sort of grappling hook to latch on to ledges, hooks, and enemies, and Gemerl can take control of enemy robots)

-2D and 3D with tons of alternate paths for each character to take advantage of (ex. Sonic can run across water while others can't and can take advantage of homing attack chains, Tails flies higher than Cream allowing him to access higher paths, Cheese can reach switches and levers that others cannot reach alone, etc.)

-Whimsical and Nonsensical level themes and designs

-Story similar to Adventure, where each has their own storyline and they all weave together. Also is enetertaining and has some degree of depth

-Eggman as the main villain

-Et cetera

[Diogenes]

It's not really ideal if it only satisfies one or two of the needed criteria to make a ideal Sonic game now is it?

Well, no. But it sums up most of what's been missing better than anything else I've seen. It's the unattainable ideal of Sonic in motion, the question is how to build a game out of it.

[Crystal Slave]

-A variety of playable characters: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Big, Gemerl. Each character would have their own take on the core Sonic formula with several quirks to differentiate themselves from others (ex. Sonic has the homing attack and wall jump, Tails can fly, Knuckles can glide and climb, Amy & Cream can spin jump (former has a hammer, latter has her chao), Big can use his fishing rod as a sort of grappling hook to latch on to ledges, hooks, and enemies, and Gemerl can take control of enemy robots)

-2D and 3D with tons of alternate paths for each character to take advantage of (ex. Sonic can run across water while others can't and can take advantage of homing attack chains, Tails flies higher than Cream allowing him to access higher paths, Cheese can reach switches and levers that others cannot reach alone, etc.)

-Whimsical and Nonsensical level themes and designs

-Story similar to Adventure, where each has their own storyline and they all weave together. Also is enetertaining and has some degree of depth

-Eggman as the main villain

-Et cetera

That actually sounds really cool, I'd love to see a game of that nature. Having more of the minor characters with similar gameplay to Sonic, except with special abilities, would be pretty awesome. I never thought of Big using his Fishing Rod as a grappling hook. You brought up some really interesting concepts, maybe you should go take over Sonic Team hahaha.

[Lamor]

• SA1 Spindash makes comeback.
  
• Story involving world travelling filled with Colours humour and Unleashed epicness.
  
• Lightspeed Dash mapped to circle/B, after performing lightspeed dash you get ability to perform one short Boost (unwiished style).
  
• Level design ala Generations.
  
• No 2D.
  
• Big, detailed Adventure Fields filled with humans.
  
• Humans are unique. Everyone has it's own design and backstory.
  
• Momentum.
  
• Momentum Homing Attack.
  
• MOAR GREEN!!! Seriously! We need more jungle levels! I LOVE THEM!!!
  
• Day/Night system from Sonic 06 beta footage.
  
• Minor customizable moves e.g.: you can equip stomp or bounce attack.
  
• After meeting Tails and Knuckles you can play as them but they're optional. At the begininng of the stage you could choose character you want to play as. Tails can perform Super Peel-out (X) and fly (A in air), Knuckles can punch (X) and glide/climb.
  
• Missions.
  
• Enemies can be KO'ed with one hit.
  
• QTE's as the boss finishers
  
• Eggman's final plan is to built Death Egg
  
• Death Egg as the final stage.
  

[Crystal Slave]

• SA1 Spindash makes comeback.
  
• Story involving world travelling filled with Colours humour and Unleashed epicness.
  
• Lightspeed Dash mapped to circle/B, after performing lightspeed dash you get ability to perform one short Boost (unwiished style).
  
• Level design ala Generations.
  
• No 2D.
  
• Big, detailed Adventure Fields filled with humans.
  
• Humans are unique. Everyone has it's own design and backstory.
  
• Momentum.
  
• Momentum Homing Attack.
  
• MOAR GREEN!!! Seriously! We need more jungle levels! I LOVE THEM!!!
  
• Day/Night system from Sonic 06 beta footage.
  
• Minor customizable moves e.g.: you can equip stomp or bounce attack.
  
• After meeting Tails and Knuckles you can play as them but they're optional. At the begininng of the stage you could choose character you want to play as. Tails can perform Super Peel-out (X) and fly (A in air), Knuckles can punch (X) and glide/climb.
  
• Missions.
  
• Enemies can be KO'ed with one hit.
  
• QTE's as the boss finishers
  
• Eggman's final plan is to built Death Egg
  
• Death Egg as the final stage.
  

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this! Especially with the points about the controls, story, and greenness haha. I would love to see some unique jungle levels.

Also, a rendition of Death Egg in a newer 3d style could be pretty awesome, but I think it would be great to add something new into the ending as well.

[SilentDoom]

e: To expand a bit, I'm pretty sure that track is automated (in so much as all you need to do is floor it and you'll be tossed exactly where you need to go), and something like that would be unplayable if it were meant as an actual track. Also that it doesn't address any kind of slower-paced sections or platforming, so it's not a full picture of what I want out of a Sonic game. But in terms of going fast? Rocketing around curves? Flying through the air? Why are we not doing this.

"Hold forward to win"

Though I can kinda see what you mean. These kinds of physics momentum physics and being able to move across curved surfaces in such ways would be damn cool. As long the level isn't just this kind of spectacle and you're doing other things throughout the zones then it's cool. Otherwise really, this boils down to an experience that isn't all that much more impressive then say Rush or HD Unleashed. Yes the physics are awesome, but you're not doing anything.

Anyway, I've been musing to myself about this recently and I've come up with a bunch of things. Big ass post coming up:

Gameplay

The core gameplay and physics should be (like people like Dio have said many times) essentially the classics in 3D but attempt to expand on what the classics have laid already. Freedom of movement is key, but at the same time it shouldn't be too free to the point where it breaks the game. This I feel is a lot harder to do in a 3D environment than a 2D environment. In 2D, your general direction is right and the main way to try to sequence break is by going up or down or by going so fast you break something. In 3D, you can go in every direction. A segment may try to encourage you to go forward, but what if you can just go around by using the right techniques and skip huge chunks of level? The easy way to stop this is to restrict movement options but obviously this isn't an optimal solution. It's a hard thing to get right and honestly I can't say I know enough about game design to suggest anything. Instead, I'll continue onto what I feel should be the basis for each character gameplay wise:

- All should be able to run fast. This is a given quite frankly. I don't think this needs justification

- All characters should be able to roll. As it did in the classics and Advance titles, rolling should remove the natural speed cap of characters and allow them to go much faster when moving along certain terrain. It should still allow lateral movement, and you should not be able to uncurl out of it unless you physically jump. None of the abusable SA1 pseudo-boost spindash bullcrap no thank you.

- Jumps should naturally be weighty but offer a good level of air control. There should be slightly less air control when travelling fast, but enough to allow you to easily manipulate the general trajectory of your jumps as well as have a decent amount of turn control. No stupid Adventure moonjumps, and no super stiff Unleashed jumps. A happy middle ground that is satisfying to use and control. Only for maybe a character such as Silver should the jump be floatier.

- In addition all characters that jump on foes should have classic bounce mechanics (i.e. the higher you fall from, the higher you bounce up). This should be heightened even more for Amy.

- All characters should be able to spindash. Effectiveness of the spindash should depend on the character (for example, Sonic and Shadow would have the best and fastest spindashes but someone like Silver for example would have a slightly less effective one). Only character (in my opinion) that shouldn't have a conventional spindash is Amy to homage her Advance 1 playstyle.

- Every character should have a couple of unlockable skills as you progess through the game. Ones that aren't essential but help open up new routes that a character wouldn't normally be able to access.

Characters

I was thinking of possibly bringing back the "Hero/Dark" thing from SA2. Though it wouldn't really be Hero/Dark, but more two sides of a large tale. Two separate overall plots that occasionally cross and meet definitively at the end. Each story with four characters.

Hero Characters

Sonic - Okay, so there's that topic asking how to differentiate Sonic for others. Well, here's what I think.

1) He should be the fastest of the bunch. He should accelerate a little faster, have the best spin dash, the highest speed cap and additionally he should natively be able to "boost" Advance 2 style (i.e. a boost that only activates upon reaching top speed and holding it for a few seconds) but you should be able to choose when to activate said boost.

2) He and Shadow should be the only ones with the Jump Dash/Homing Attack but it should be completely reworked. The distance of it should be dependent on how much momentum you have and it should have a little bit of landing lag so that it can't be abused to quickly gain speed and as a result undermine the purpose of the spindash. Furthermore, Homing Attacking enemies should deal less damage to them than jumping on them unless you approach the enemy at full speed, but it should retain and increase your forward momentum upon successfully landing one. Finally, after landing a Homing Attack Sonic should be able to curl back into a ball with the press of a button and be able to jump on enemies as he would normally be able to bop off enemies and elegantly roll onto slopes straight from Homing Attack chains, allowing for a more elegant flow.

3) Give him back his Lightspeed dash and make it not context sensitive. I saw no point in nerfing this to how it was in Generations. And make it like how it was in Unleashed and SA2.

4) Give him two unlockable skills. One I like to call Antigravity. Essentially when Sonic is running along there should be a "Momentum Guage" along the side to give you an absolute clear idea of just how much you have. Then you can activate this near a wall and Sonic will jump onto it and be able to run along it without needing to run up a sloped surface to go onto the wall first. As you're running along the wall, the Momentum Guage steadily decreases until it depletes and you drop off. The other would be the Supersonic Boost, essentially the boost in Generations but nerfed to have a lower speed cap (lower than normal running), be harder to fill (can only be filled with capsules like in Colours) and deplete faster. It would be a situational technique that would take a little time and patience to master and one that needs to be used in conjunction with his other techniques.

5) Remember the Sonic CD ending FMV where Sonic was riding on the robots? Well how bout if he could do it here? Would only work against robots that actually move forward, but essentially you can move them around like your own little vehicle, running them into other robots. Why? Cuz it would be fun and so fitting for Sonic's character.

Tails - Tails imo is a pretty hard one to execute because, well, flight in 3D platformers generally ends up being extremely abusable especially in games like SA1. Nevertheless I think he could still work.

1) Obviously he needs his signature flight. As a result his platforming segments should revolve around this flight too. It shouldn't last too long but offer a lot of control and flexibility whilst you're flying, but once the flight time runs out you slow down significantly and lose a lot of that manoeuvrability. The problem with SA1's flight for example, was that you had all the air control when you were in your tired state as you did when you were flying you just couldn't ascend. As a result you could tear levels to shreds because you could soar over everything. Another factor that could help balance out flight would be the fact that you have to have a running start for the flight to be effective. You can fly from a standing or low speed position, but your air speed cap and manoeuvrability would be less for example. On the flip side, when you run then go into flight the flight should last for a little less time (only a little).

2) Bring back his tail swipes. Not much to explain here really. Simple attack moves that can be used to effective dispatch some enemies. Possibly have some level gimmicks that require use of the tail attack to give it a little more depth.

3) Here's something quite interesting. How about incorporating the fact that Tails is a mechanical genius into his core gameplay. And no I don't mean radically changing his gameplay by putting him into a mech or something silly like that. Essentially what I mean is that when he destroys enemies, he could accumulate "Robot Parts" throughout the level. Getting enough of these and getting enough rings would allow him to place his gimmick down. Whether it be something like an additional spring to bounce him up to another area or some kind of temporary one use gadget or weapon I think it would be a nice, fairly unique and interesting gimmick for our high flying fox.

4) Another upgrade could simply be one to boost his flight capabilities. In SA3, when paired with Cream iirc his flight would last for less time but he would ascend a lot quicker. Maybe the upgrade could involve a quick burst of flight upwards during flight mode, but it runs your time down faster. In other words, an option that would allow you to reach high places that your normal flight wouldn't allow, but gives less general freedom of movement.

Knuckles - The fighting freak could potentially transfer very well and very easily actually. His problem was less his moveset (in SA1 and SA2 of course. Screw 06 Knuckles he's a piece of shit), and more the environments in which he was placed in and his objectives.

1) Gliding and wall climbing. Knuckles two signature moves since forever. Honestly they should just function how they've always functioned. However, I think the longer you glide for, you should gradually decelerate and consequently start to drop more. Both essential tools for Knuckles' exploration. In addition, he should have his Shovel Claw digging abilities by default, allowing him to find hidden goodies in walls and the ground.

2) Powerful melee attacks that can kill enemies very quickly and efficiently as well as break through surfaces that no other character could, giving Knuckles access to areas others wouldn't be able to. Knuckles is the definitive power character of the series, so his attacks should reflect that.

3) Another way to explore Knuckles' exploration possibilities would be with an upgrade that essentially allows him to dig not just into walls but straight through them. Think like the Drill Wisp in Sonic Colours. It would work perfect for 2D, but I'd honestly have no clue how it would transfer into a 3D environment.

Amy - Sonic's love interest. Poor Amy, she's never really been at all even close to decent and individual in a 3D game. As a result I think she could use some nods to her Advance 1 moveset but developed further to work in 3D

1) Advance 1 Amy would be the base essentially. That means no rolling jump and no spin dash (she just gets that little hop to thrust her forward slightly). She would still be allowed to roll however. On the flip side, all her hammer quirks return and then some. If she hits a spring with her hammer, she should be propelled higher. Landing an aerial hammer attack should launch Amy higher than if any other character were to simply bounce off an enemy, allowing her to reach heights that some others may not be able to.

2) She should have a jump dash like Sonic and Shadow. However hers should travel a good bit further but deal no damage. Instead, it should only be able to stun certain enemies. She could leap frog off the opponent's head and your speed leap frogging off the foe will be proportional to your speed approaching it. However, you lose a bit of speed for each leap frog so doing them in succession could lose you time.

3) Her main focus of her gameplay however should be her hammer. She should retain her hammer flip from Advance 1 and Adventure 1, that spiralling hammer bounce from Advance 2, hammer strikes that work like slightly slower versions of Knuckles' punches (it seems sensible since Knuckles is just attacking with his mighty fists, whereas Amy is a gal attack with a giant mallet that's larger than her) and possibly even a charge up strike similar to the Ancient Light from Adventure 1/2 however it charges over time and if you time a button press upon hitting a foe you get a bonus.

Level Design

Level designs should be large and elaborate. Nice open spaces with plenty of freedom to move but more importantly have distinct slope formations and memorable layouts that allow you to make proper use of the game's momentum based physics. For example, 06 had "open level design" but because it made no use of the momentum based gameplay that the series is known for as well as generally having a really shitty engine it just felt like a run of the mill 3D platformer (which in my opinion is EVEN WORSE than the quote "boost to win" formula of games like Unleashed because it's not only not all that well executed, but it's generic and lacks any individuality). One of the issues with Sonic games as of late is their lack of levels that truly cater well to what fundamentally made Sonic games awesome in the first place, or even to the engines that they have (case in point, S4 Ep2). That doesn't mean to say they aren't fun. Heck I've had more fun with Generations than any other 3D Sonic game.

There should be a variety of tropes and environments all vivid, creative and over the top. They should try to avoid using tired, conventional tropes as much as possible. For example, instead of your conventional "green" level for the first level, what about if it starts with Sonic falling from the sky after either taking out one of Eggman's fleets or just being knocked out of it? Another concept they could experiment with is trope fusion. Remember Galaxy 1's Freezeflame Galaxy and how awesome that was? Take two tried and tested tropes and mix them together and you can get some potentially interesting combinations. Finally, I'd really like to see some of the more obscure tropes again. I loved Music Plant in Advance 2 for example, and it would be wonderful if they made another music based stage.

Level design would also need to be designed in such a way so that it's easy for newer players to get into the game. One awesome thing about the classics was how accessible they are and they realised that when moving at high speed level design needed to be relatively fair. The levels should have very few bottomless pits, and the ones that are there shouldn't be in your direct path. They should instead draw into you down to a lower, alternate routes. However, the levels should still be challenging. Badniks really need to be improved. In current gen 3D Sonic games, the enemies are pathetic save for a couple in the later levels. They should all pose some sort of threat. Striking the balance is key.

Another important thing is level exclusive gimmicks. It's something I'm so glad Generations bought back to the 3D games. These in addition to layouts really help sculpt the level's identity and it ensures that you're doing different things in each level. Rather than applying the same generic springs, spikes and speed boosters in every level have more unique ways to thrust you up/forward. Look at Sky Sanctuary's clouds, the bumpers in most pinball levels, Hydrocity's weird hand....things. Even small things like Techno Base's digital spikes and springs are nice touches. This also applies to Badniks. I really dislike how in a number of the 3D Sonic games (SA2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed) they'd have a few set badniks for most of the levels of the game, throwing in maybe one or two new ones. The classics and Generations had a two or three different ones per level, but they help to sculpt the identity of the level.

It would require a lot of thought and care, but the result could be one of the most ground breaking 3D platformers of this generation.

Plot and Progression

Now this may quite an odd one to focus on but hear me out, as the idea could potentially be really cool. It involves carefully weaving the story of each of the playable characters in with the level progression. Now I mentioned before about the whole Hero/Dark split thing with 4 characters per side. Well, each character would have their own plot within that split and depending on who you choose to play as you can follow a different path. Not making sense? Let me try to explain it a bit more.

Okay, so say you start the game as Sonic everytime. You beat the level and meet Tails at which point you can choose to play the next level as Sonic or Tails. If you choose Sonic, you continue on as Sonic and eventually bump into Knuckles a few levels later. If you choose Tails however, you meet Amy next level and you can choose to play as either Tails as Amy. Then as a result it evolves into this complex web of potential routes that all come down to a single conclusion for the story, where the four characters most likely unite. Think kind of like Shadow's plot progression system except better and since there's one ending rather than multiple it has a lot more consequence and you feel like you've accomplished something no matter what path you take. It also gives the player a lot of freedom of choice when it comes to which characters they want to play as. You could essentially play the entire story as one character, following their plot and progression or you could mix it up to see how the different characters interact at different times. The other major advantage to this however, is that it could potentially mean much more focused and interesting level design. Since you're designing a level to cater to one or two characters, you can design routes in the level specifically for and around those characters rather than having one level of a general design like in SA1 and 06. It also means more levels and a greater variety of levels, since each character takes their own path.

I have a LOT more to say. But I spent a while on this already. I'll keep updating this lol.

Edited July 2, 2012 by SiLeNt PyRrH0n

[Crystal Slave]

"Hold forward to win"

Though I can kinda see what you mean. These kinds of physics momentum physics and being able to move across curved surfaces in such ways would be damn cool. As long the level isn't just this kind of spectacle and you're doing other things throughout the zones then it's cool. Otherwise really, this boils down to an experience that isn't all that much more impressive then say Rush or HD Unleashed. Yes the physics are awesome, but you're not doing anything.

Anyway, I've been musing to myself about this recently and I've come up with a bunch of things. Big ass post coming up:

Gameplay

The core gameplay and physics should be (like people like Dio have said many times) essentially the classics in 3D but attempt to expand on what the classics have laid already. Freedom of movement is key, but at the same time it shouldn't be too free to the point where it breaks the game. This I feel is a lot harder to do in a 3D environment than a 2D environment. In 2D, your general direction is right and the main way to try to sequence break is by going up or down or by going so fast you break something. In 3D, you can go in every direction. A segment may try to encourage you to go forward, but what if you can just go around by using the right techniques and skip huge chunks of level? The easy way to stop this is to restrict movement options but obviously this isn't an optimal solution. It's a hard thing to get right and honestly I can't say I know enough about game design to suggest anything. Instead, I'll continue onto what I feel should be the basis for each character gameplay wise:

- All should be able to run fast. This is a given quite frankly. I don't think this needs justification

- All characters should be able to roll. As it did in the classics and Advance titles, rolling should remove the natural speed cap of characters and allow them to go much faster when moving along certain terrain. It should still allow lateral movement, and you should not be able to uncurl out of it unless you physically jump. None of the abusable SA1 pseudo-boost spindash bullcrap no thank you.

- Jumps should naturally be weighty but offer a good level of air control. There should be slightly less air control when travelling fast, but enough to allow you to easily manipulate the general trajectory of your jumps as well as have a decent amount of turn control. No stupid Adventure moonjumps, and no super stiff Unleashed jumps. A happy middle ground that is satisfying to use and control. Only for maybe a character such as Silver should the jump be floatier.

- All characters should be able to spindash. Effectiveness of the spindash should depend on the character (for example, Sonic and Shadow would have the best and fastest spindashes but someone like Silver for example would have a slightly less effective one). Only character (in my opinion) that shouldn't have a conventional spindash is Amy to homage her Advance 1 playstyle.

- Every character should have a couple of unlockable skills as you progess through the game. Ones that aren't essential but help open up new routes that a character wouldn't normally be able to access.

Characters

Sonic - Okay, so there's that topic asking how to differentiate Sonic for others. Well, here's what I think.

1) He should be the fastest of the bunch. He should accelerate a little faster, have the best spin dash, the highest speed cap and additionally he should natively be able to "boost" Advance 2 style (i.e. a boost that only activates upon reaching top speed and holding it for a few seconds) but you should be able to choose when to activate said boost.

2) He and Shadow should be the only ones with the Jump Dash/Homing Attack but it should be completely reworked. The distance of it should be dependent on how much momentum you have and it should have a little bit of landing lag so that it can't be abused to quickly gain speed and as a result undermine the purpose of the spindash. Furthermore, Homing Attacking enemies should deal less damage to them than jumping on them unless you approach the enemy at full speed, but it should retain and increase your forward momentum upon successfully landing one. Finally, after landing a Homing Attack Sonic should be able to curl back into a ball with the press of a button and be able to jump on enemies as he would normally be able to bop off enemies and elegantly roll onto slopes straight from Homing Attack chains, allowing for a more elegant flow.

3) Give him back his Lightspeed dash and make it not context sensitive. I saw no point in nerfing this to how it was in Generations. And make it like how it was in Unleashed and SA2.

4) Give him two unlockable skills. One I like to call Antigravity. Essentially when Sonic is running along there should be a "Momentum Guage" along the side to give you an absolute clear idea of just how much you have. Then you can activate this near a wall and Sonic will jump onto it and be able to run along it without needing to run up a sloped surface to go onto the wall first. As you're running along the wall, the Momentum Guage steadily decreases until it depletes and you drop off. The other would be the Supersonic Boost, essentially the boost in Generations but nerfed to have a lower speed cap (lower than normal running), be harder to fill (can only be filled with capsules like in Colours) and deplete faster. It would be a situational technique that would take a little time and patience to master and one that needs to be used in conjunction with his other techniques.

5) Remember the Sonic CD ending FMV where Sonic was riding on the robots? Well how bout if he could do it here? Would only work against robots that actually move forward, but essentially you can move them around like your own little vehicle, running them into other robots. Why? Cuz it would be fun and so fitting for Sonic's character.

Tails - Tails imo is a pretty hard one to execute because, well, flight in 3D platformers generally ends up being extremely abusable especially in games like SA1. Nevertheless I think he could still work.

1) Obviously he needs his signature flight. As a result his platforming segments should revolve around this flight too. It shouldn't last too long but offer a lot of control and flexibility whilst you're flying, but once the flight time runs out you slow down significantly and lose a lot of that manoeuvrability. The problem with SA1's flight for example, was that you had all the air control when you were in your tired state as you did when you were flying you just couldn't ascend. As a result you could tear levels to shreds because you could soar over everything. Another factor that could help balance out flight would be the fact that you have to have a running start for the flight to be effective. You can fly from a standing or low speed position, but your air speed cap and manoeuvrability would be less for example. On the flip side, when you run then go into flight the flight should last for a little less time (only a little).

2) Bring back his tail swipes. Not much to explain here really. Simple attack moves that can be used to effective dispatch some enemies. Possibly have some level gimmicks that require use of the tail attack to give it a little more depth.

3) Here's something quite interesting. How about incorporating the fact that Tails is a mechanical genius into his core gameplay. And no I don't mean radically changing his gameplay by putting him into a mech or something silly like that. Essentially what I mean is that when he destroys enemies, he could accumulate "Robot Parts" throughout the level. Getting enough of these and getting enough rings would allow him to place his gimmick down. Whether it be something like an additional spring to bounce him up to another area or some kind of temporary one use gadget or weapon I think it would be a nice, fairly unique and interesting gimmick for our high flying fox.

4) Another upgrade could simply be one to boost his flight capabilities. In SA3, when paired with Cream iirc his flight would last for less time but he would ascend a lot quicker. Maybe the upgrade could involve a quick burst of flight upwards during flight mode, but it runs your time down faster. In other words, an option that would allow you to reach high places that your normal flight wouldn't allow, but gives less general freedom of movement.

Knuckles - The fighting freak could potentially transfer very well and very easily actually. His problem was less his moveset (in SA1 and SA2 of course. Screw 06 Knuckles he's a piece of shit), and more the environments in which he was placed in and his objectives.

1) Gliding and wall climbing. Knuckles two signature moves since forever. Honestly they should just function how they've always functioned. However, I think the longer you glide for, you should gradually decelerate and consequently start to drop more. Both essential tools for Knuckles' exploration. In addition, he should have his Shovel Claw digging abilities by default, allowing him to find hidden goodies in walls and the ground.

2) Powerful melee attacks that can kill enemies very quickly and efficiently as well as break through surfaces that no other character could, giving Knuckles access to areas others wouldn't be able to. Knuckles is the definitive power character of the series, so his attacks should reflect that.

3) Another way to explore Knuckles' exploration possibilities would be with an upgrade that essentially allows him to dig not just into walls but straight through them. Think like the Drill Wisp in Sonic Colours. It would work perfect for 2D, but I'd honestly have no clue how it would transfer into a 3D environment.

I have a LOT more to say. But I spent a while on this already. I'll keep updating this lol.

[Penny]

For me, it's pretty simple. Sonic Generations, except longer. By that I mean more levels and more story.

But that's it. Generations is as close as they've gotten for me.

[Cola]

In terms of gameplay?

Modern Generations. Change the stomp to a bounce, slide to a roll, add better momentum physics, add a spindash.

Oh, and make 2D sections far and inbetween, just to spice things up here and there

Colorful creative zones, and, at least have Tails playable.

[Mephiles БЕИ]

Hmm.. I liked the Sonic Adventure series a lot. My ideal Sonic game is without a doubt Sonic Adventure 3. But this is what I don't like about the Sonic games:

Cameras- We all know camera bugs are annoying, Sonic Adventure had a lot but I respect the fact that it had a Free/Auto camera option.

This option should appear in all future Sonic games.

Glitches- As a die-hard Sonic fan I have encountered a lot of glitches throughout the games, however the majority of glitches I have encountered were in "Sonic the Hedgehog 2006". I personally think SEGA should have more testers JUST to make SURE there are not so many glitches.

That is simply it. I do have dreams of SA3, but until then... Well, I will just have to wait.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

e: To expand a bit, I'm pretty sure that track is automated (in so much as all you need to do is floor it and you'll be tossed exactly where you need to go), and something like that would be unplayable if it were meant as an actual track. Also that it doesn't address any kind of slower-paced sections or platforming, so it's not a full picture of what I want out of a Sonic game. But in terms of going fast? Rocketing around curves? Flying through the air? Why are we not doing this.

Yeah, this is definitely gonna need some sort of structure for that kind of level design. The way Sonic reorients himself as he flings from curves like gravity is just a suggestion, looks hella fun but a helluva mind screw to work with for single level.

[The future]

On the 2D front:

A Sonic game split into 3 episodes, with 9 full length zones each, with 2 full acts (18 levels), and a boss battle in the end of the 2nd act. Make E3 a little longer so that it can have a series of single acts in a zone that will bring the conclusion of the game.

Some acts can have 2 back-to-back major boss battles past the 5th zone in E1. Not all have to be Eggman.

Want a slight plot twist in the end of each episode.

Make at least one other major enemy other than Robotnik, that also has problems with both Sonic/ Knuckles/ Tails as well as him. Make sure that it isn't an god like enemy of the week type of thing.

Put Nack the Weasel and The Hunter from the comics as side enemies, sorta like Knuckles in S3&K.

Make Metal sonic have multiple forms, ranging from his Sonic CD model, to the S3 & K model

Put 2 more shields (wind, gold) in the levels.

Make some zones have a day to dusk to night setting as the player progresses through the same level.

I come back for more later.

[OlenJimi]

More modern Sonic generations, but with original levels.

[Stritix]

A game that has a lot of fast paced exploration with solid platforming, good solid storyline, up to five or six playable characters, nothing but original content.

[Chaos Warp]

"Hold forward to win"

Though I can kinda see what you mean. These kinds of physics momentum physics and being able to move across curved surfaces in such ways would be damn cool. As long the level isn't just this kind of spectacle and you're doing other things throughout the zones then it's cool. Otherwise really, this boils down to an experience that isn't all that much more impressive then say Rush or HD Unleashed. Yes the physics are awesome, but you're not doing anything.

Anyway, I've been musing to myself about this recently and I've come up with a bunch of things. Big ass post coming up:

Gameplay

The core gameplay and physics should be (like people like Dio have said many times) essentially the classics in 3D but attempt to expand on what the classics have laid already. Freedom of movement is key, but at the same time it shouldn't be too free to the point where it breaks the game. This I feel is a lot harder to do in a 3D environment than a 2D environment. In 2D, your general direction is right and the main way to try to sequence break is by going up or down or by going so fast you break something. In 3D, you can go in every direction. A segment may try to encourage you to go forward, but what if you can just go around by using the right techniques and skip huge chunks of level? The easy way to stop this is to restrict movement options but obviously this isn't an optimal solution. It's a hard thing to get right and honestly I can't say I know enough about game design to suggest anything. Instead, I'll continue onto what I feel should be the basis for each character gameplay wise:

- All should be able to run fast. This is a given quite frankly. I don't think this needs justification

- All characters should be able to roll. As it did in the classics and Advance titles, rolling should remove the natural speed cap of characters and allow them to go much faster when moving along certain terrain. It should still allow lateral movement, and you should not be able to uncurl out of it unless you physically jump. None of the abusable SA1 pseudo-boost spindash bullcrap no thank you.

- Jumps should naturally be weighty but offer a good level of air control. There should be slightly less air control when travelling fast, but enough to allow you to easily manipulate the general trajectory of your jumps as well as have a decent amount of turn control. No stupid Adventure moonjumps, and no super stiff Unleashed jumps. A happy middle ground that is satisfying to use and control. Only for maybe a character such as Silver should the jump be floatier.

- All characters should be able to spindash. Effectiveness of the spindash should depend on the character (for example, Sonic and Shadow would have the best and fastest spindashes but someone like Silver for example would have a slightly less effective one). Only character (in my opinion) that shouldn't have a conventional spindash is Amy to homage her Advance 1 playstyle.

- Every character should have a couple of unlockable skills as you progess through the game. Ones that aren't essential but help open up new routes that a character wouldn't normally be able to access.

Characters

Sonic - Okay, so there's that topic asking how to differentiate Sonic for others. Well, here's what I think.

1) He should be the fastest of the bunch. He should accelerate a little faster, have the best spin dash, the highest speed cap and additionally he should natively be able to "boost" Advance 2 style (i.e. a boost that only activates upon reaching top speed and holding it for a few seconds) but you should be able to choose when to activate said boost.

2) He and Shadow should be the only ones with the Jump Dash/Homing Attack but it should be completely reworked. The distance of it should be dependent on how much momentum you have and it should have a little bit of landing lag so that it can't be abused to quickly gain speed and as a result undermine the purpose of the spindash. Furthermore, Homing Attacking enemies should deal less damage to them than jumping on them unless you approach the enemy at full speed, but it should retain and increase your forward momentum upon successfully landing one. Finally, after landing a Homing Attack Sonic should be able to curl back into a ball with the press of a button and be able to jump on enemies as he would normally be able to bop off enemies and elegantly roll onto slopes straight from Homing Attack chains, allowing for a more elegant flow.

3) Give him back his Lightspeed dash and make it not context sensitive. I saw no point in nerfing this to how it was in Generations. And make it like how it was in Unleashed and SA2.

4) Give him two unlockable skills. One I like to call Antigravity. Essentially when Sonic is running along there should be a "Momentum Guage" along the side to give you an absolute clear idea of just how much you have. Then you can activate this near a wall and Sonic will jump onto it and be able to run along it without needing to run up a sloped surface to go onto the wall first. As you're running along the wall, the Momentum Guage steadily decreases until it depletes and you drop off. The other would be the Supersonic Boost, essentially the boost in Generations but nerfed to have a lower speed cap (lower than normal running), be harder to fill (can only be filled with capsules like in Colours) and deplete faster. It would be a situational technique that would take a little time and patience to master and one that needs to be used in conjunction with his other techniques.

5) Remember the Sonic CD ending FMV where Sonic was riding on the robots? Well how bout if he could do it here? Would only work against robots that actually move forward, but essentially you can move them around like your own little vehicle, running them into other robots. Why? Cuz it would be fun and so fitting for Sonic's character.

Tails - Tails imo is a pretty hard one to execute because, well, flight in 3D platformers generally ends up being extremely abusable especially in games like SA1. Nevertheless I think he could still work.

1) Obviously he needs his signature flight. As a result his platforming segments should revolve around this flight too. It shouldn't last too long but offer a lot of control and flexibility whilst you're flying, but once the flight time runs out you slow down significantly and lose a lot of that manoeuvrability. The problem with SA1's flight for example, was that you had all the air control when you were in your tired state as you did when you were flying you just couldn't ascend. As a result you could tear levels to shreds because you could soar over everything. Another factor that could help balance out flight would be the fact that you have to have a running start for the flight to be effective. You can fly from a standing or low speed position, but your air speed cap and manoeuvrability would be less for example. On the flip side, when you run then go into flight the flight should last for a little less time (only a little).

2) Bring back his tail swipes. Not much to explain here really. Simple attack moves that can be used to effective dispatch some enemies. Possibly have some level gimmicks that require use of the tail attack to give it a little more depth.

3) Here's something quite interesting. How about incorporating the fact that Tails is a mechanical genius into his core gameplay. And no I don't mean radically changing his gameplay by putting him into a mech or something silly like that. Essentially what I mean is that when he destroys enemies, he could accumulate "Robot Parts" throughout the level. Getting enough of these and getting enough rings would allow him to place his gimmick down. Whether it be something like an additional spring to bounce him up to another area or some kind of temporary one use gadget or weapon I think it would be a nice, fairly unique and interesting gimmick for our high flying fox.

4) Another upgrade could simply be one to boost his flight capabilities. In SA3, when paired with Cream iirc his flight would last for less time but he would ascend a lot quicker. Maybe the upgrade could involve a quick burst of flight upwards during flight mode, but it runs your time down faster. In other words, an option that would allow you to reach high places that your normal flight wouldn't allow, but gives less general freedom of movement.

Knuckles - The fighting freak could potentially transfer very well and very easily actually. His problem was less his moveset (in SA1 and SA2 of course. Screw 06 Knuckles he's a piece of shit), and more the environments in which he was placed in and his objectives.

1) Gliding and wall climbing. Knuckles two signature moves since forever. Honestly they should just function how they've always functioned. However, I think the longer you glide for, you should gradually decelerate and consequently start to drop more. Both essential tools for Knuckles' exploration. In addition, he should have his Shovel Claw digging abilities by default, allowing him to find hidden goodies in walls and the ground.

2) Powerful melee attacks that can kill enemies very quickly and efficiently as well as break through surfaces that no other character could, giving Knuckles access to areas others wouldn't be able to. Knuckles is the definitive power character of the series, so his attacks should reflect that.

3) Another way to explore Knuckles' exploration possibilities would be with an upgrade that essentially allows him to dig not just into walls but straight through them. Think like the Drill Wisp in Sonic Colours. It would work perfect for 2D, but I'd honestly have no clue how it would transfer into a 3D environment.

I have a LOT more to say. But I spent a while on this already. I'll keep updating this lol.

I notice you mentioned jumping on enemies in Sonic's part. The thing is, wouldn't that be hard as fuck in 3d? IMO, you should have the homing attack do the same damage as the jump.

[Scar]

Something with a budget and scope that matches Sonic Unleashed for starters.

I just want a solidly designed game that shows advancement from the previous games and suggests that Sonic Team are aware of problems and are trying push the gameplay forwards. Something that has ambition and doesn't play things to safely, something that pushes the boundaries for a Sonic game (by that I don't mean genre roulette)

Beyond that, I'm not too concerned with specifics. It always ends in disappointment, because people are more interested in the Sonic game that they dream about rather than enjoying the actual physical games. Yeah, they ain't perfect and yeah, they probably don't align with what your assessment of a good Sonic game is, but that in and of itself doesn't make the game bad. Bad level design, poor programming and shit like that makes a bad game.

One thing that I would find interesting and would like Sonic Team to do, is to tie the game clock to the Console's clock. That way the lighting matches the time of day. If you play the game at night, the cutscenes, stages and whatever else is also set at night (with the street-lights/torches etc switched on to provide some practical lighting). If you play during the day, the cutscenes and stages are set during the day. Same for sunset and sunrise, of course this only works for outdoor stages but you get the idea. Sonic games are usually visually appealing and regardless of what your opinion on the last 3 Sonic games are, you cannot argue that they didn't have fantastic visuals. These would only be augmented if you could play the game at different times.