10 replies to this topic

[Patticus]

http://www.dailymail...ing-empty.html#






http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036105/How-Chinas-taking-Africa-West-VERY-worried.html

With little fanfare, a staggering 750,000 Chinese have settled in Africa over the past decade. More are on the way.

The strategy has been carefully devised by officials in Beijing, where one expert has estimated that China will eventually need to send 300 million people to Africa to solve the problems of over-population and pollution.

All this is going on, has been going on for a decade, and aside from a couple of documentaries and reports on the BBC News every so often we really don't get to hear much about all this. Should we be worried? Should the nations of Africa be worried? In this age of having to be ashamed of our imperialist pasts, with China acting in this fashion (with potentially vast rewards), should the west too gear up for another round of colonialism?

[Gerk Marenghis Darkplace]

It depends if China is using their population in africa to extert power over the people who currently live there. If not, they're just expatriates. It's as simple as that.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Can't go any worse than when Europe tried colonizing Africa

[/poor taste]

[American Ristar]

Colonialism is a loaded word, to use it here isn't right. Making themselves an alternative to the West which screwed Africa in the past, China is farming influence. The partnership makes a lot of sense. The USSR tried hard to make friends in the Middle East (they failed) in the 1960s right? Africa is more likely the stage for some new cold war between the US and China, but I don't even see that happening. Not sure the US is even interested in being in Africa.

It hasn't come to where a country or corporation has a stranglehold on the people or resources, like Shell in Nigeria. It's not colonialism. When unfair treatment begins you can say it's no longer a mutual business agreement, but Africa seems to have a lot of infrastructure to gain from China's move there. Of course the relationship will always be lopsided because many countries in Africa are poor, and their only bargaining chip will be natural resources.

With little fanfare, a staggering 750,000 Chinese have settled in Africa over the past decade. More are on the way.

Yeah, staggering. I have to say this figure is completely fucked.

300,000 of that number were immigrants to South Africa. Over the past decade because the rise in immigrants is directly connected to the collapse of apartheid where Chinese were considered disadvantaged coloreds.

I don't think South Africa is going to be colonized again, and a bump in Chinese immigration is regular. Poorer countries do see Chinese workers moving in, but I'm pretty sure it's proportional to the amount of business being done.

Speaking of migrants in Africa, some of my friends are Indians from South Africa. Indians were shipped in to Africa by colonial powers as laborers, this happened in Jamaica too. A large number of Indians live in other parts of Africa too.

Not like it would necessarily play out like that, but I don't see a situation similar to this one. I'd like to know more about the average worker for one of these operations. I work at a Chinese company, I wonder if they have opinions on this.

Should we be worried? I guess. China is our competition. But they're not ruining Africa yet.

Edited by American Ristar, 04 July 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[turbojet]

Yes. Absolutely.

Here is something to put in perspective. Zimbabwe has enough resources to feed the entire African state and the Congo can feed sub-Saharan state. Yet, everyone that is not part of South Africa and Egypt is starving when China, a country that is poor in resource, is able to feed themselves? How can that happen? Well, the leaders in Africa trade off land for rinky dink schools and hospitals instead of finding a way to educate the populace in those fields while still maintaining their cultures. Africa in it's entireity has neo-colonialism and colonialism to blame for much of the conflict(So called ethnic and tribe conflicts would not have happened if Europeans did not use it to classify Africans and oppress them and pretty much dividing Africa into weak states that cannot support themselves so thus they become enclave economies that are easily exploited). Now China is doing the same shit where transnational corporations are leaving off.

I am taking a Modern Politics in Africa class and whole hardly approve of Pan-Africanism as the only way that Africa can get out of this mess.

Edited by turbojet, 04 July 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[Patticus]

http://www.chinaafricarealstory.com/

For those who prefer not to get their world views from the Daily Mail, the above is an excellent blog on China in Africa. It's well worth checking out some of the more popular posted articles.

When people are reduced to being an excess that needs to be dumped elsewhere, you know something, somewhere is going badly wrong.

[American Ristar]

I get you Turbo, rather than be sponsored by foreign companies they should be using the wealth for themselves. I would nationalize that shit immediately. But do the governments there give a shit really? I think China is beneficial for the time, they just need to make sure it remains beneficial for their countries. Like the man in the first video said.

Also Patticus, that blog seems extremely pro-Chinese intervention, is that reliable information in there.

Edited by American Ristar, 04 July 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[turbojet]

First off, even if they did nationalize the resources you are vastly missing the point because African governments lack the ability to govern themselves when they have little control of their own infrastructure especially when they have to rely on exports aka enclave economies. Even if there were benevolent governments, which there are, they can't do anything to support their populace because they way colonialists divided up the states. No single country in Africa was ever meant to be an entire country. After the 6th Pan-African Congress, for some reason, the leaders decided to maintain borders that their colonialist masters made as if to maintain some sort of sovereignty. So whether the governments of singular states in Africa give a damn is irrelevant because they can't do anything to begin with.

Second, "well it is good for Africa" is the kind of thinking that got Africa in the position it is in today. China is not there to educate them in medicine, but provide them with it. China is not there to teach them engineering, but give them the tools so they can dig for them. China is not embracing the culture that is already there, but "recommending" them to learn Chinese. Land for temporary equipment and faulty superstructure is not an ideal barter. It is no different than trading slaves for guns that happened during the 1700s.

Edited by turbojet, 04 July 2012 - 05:59 PM.

[American Ristar]

Tell me why they have no control over their own infrastructure? They are putting mining laws to protect themselves from abuse. For countries without oil, if mineral resources are their sole economy, take tight control of that. Where is the money? Education will follow relative prosperity. What about these Asian countries that modernized through strict policies, what are the similarities? I don't know a lot about the root causes but the solution should be simple.

(You are probably right about pan-Africa cooperation. But until that happens what are they gonna do.)

Edited by American Ristar, 04 July 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

China in Africa. Now there's something you wouldn't normally expect.

I have to say I find this interesting for China to do, although it also makes me think that they're trying to gain even more influence to compete with the US. Funny enough how the western powers aren't exactly putting much focus on Africa anymore, the Middle East notwithstanding, and yet China's now showing interest.

I'm expecting this to renew the west's interests in the continent should China become even more involved.

[Patticus]

Also Patticus, that blog seems extremely pro-Chinese intervention, is that reliable information in there.

I wouldn't say it's pro Chinese investment; merely not anti Chinese investment which, consciously or no, is the stance the majority of Western press takes. Not without a great deal of irony, might I add. The author is very well-respected in her field and collates a great deal of writing on China in Africa, both negative and positive. I'd say there's a distinction between dispelling myths that Chinese investment in Africa is a purely cynical game of profits and being 'pro' China in Africa.

Your comments are, as always, however, Ristar, well thought-out and well-made (apologies for the heinous amount of commas in that sentence). Please feel free to disagree. Cheers!