39 replies to this topic

[Game & Wario]

Bosses are a pretty huge part of the Sonic series. They've ranged from great, to mediocre, to "IT'S NO USE"-brand terrible. Nowadays, bosses are pretty one note: run, avoid, jump, homing attack, then maybe boost, depending on the boss. Occasionally, it'll be in 2-D, then sometimes Sonic has a full 8-directions to run/fly in (the latter belonging to Super Sonic), but for the most part, it's always the same thing.

While I enjoy a good running boss as much as the next guy, I feel like there's a ton of untapped potential here. I want battles running ON the boss. I want to fight entire battleships/atlas-sized robots at once, dodging fire like a madman before attacking individual weakpoints all over the ship/robot before bringing the whole thing down in a glorious, fiery explosion of victory. I want to really feel like Eggman is GENUINELY trying to take my pointy blue hedgehog down, and putting everything he has into it.

I want to fight Metal Sonic at the speed of sound before I fight the final boss. Metal Sonic blasts ahead of you, and you have to catch up with your metallic twin by flawlessly completing mini-stages, like in the 360 Dark Gaia battle. Once you catch him, you homing attack him to engage, which isn't as easy as it sounds, because Metal Sonic is just as capable of the Homing Attack (and deflecting it) as you, and he's not just going to sit there and take it. He turns around, catches you with his claws, then you do some quick hand-to-hand stuff (QTE), before stomping Metal's head into the ground and dealing some damage. From that point on, it's you avoiding Metal's HAs, trying to get in attacks of your own, and keeping up, all while tearing through Eggman's base at the speed of friggin' sound.

And, yes, I want some classic-style boss battles. Not particularly Generations Death Egg Robot classic, but I want some Sonic Rush-inspired, circular battlefields, with big n' nasty Dr. R creations in the middle, trying to fuck Sonic's shit all kinds of up.

What kind of bosses would you guys like to see?

[Joshua]

I'm being quite honest when I say that the boss in Casino Night Zone is one of my favorites. When making use of Sonic's rolling physics is the best way to combat an enemy, it always excites me, because it takes the main skill you're trying to utilize and perfect in the game and make use of it in a tense situation.

If more bosses took place in hilly terrain and encourage the use of the roll - and if in 3D, take advantage of wide-turn drifting to get a distance set where you can boost with the right speed to cause damage - I would not be disappointed.

Edited by Qwilfish, 22 July 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[y cant solkia crawl]

Ones that AREN'T this:





*videos of every other boss fight in Generations HD except the Egg Dragoon*

[McGroose]

I always thought Eggman should have brought this boss back and improved it. To me, it's the eggman mech that screams out:
"I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING EGGMAN FOOL!"
I'm talking about the Sonic 3 & Knuckles Final boss.



You've just defeating eggman's computer controlled mech, and now you have access to him. As you attempt to run at him, it's to late. He's entered a Goliath of a machine. The floor behind you crumbles as the machine rises. You don't even see whether or not the thing has legs or not. You feel the ground shaking after ever movement it takes towards you.

The boss itself isn't terrible difficult though. So that mighty entrance he has might just be for show. But if Eggman could just improve this boss, Make it stronger and have more attacks, then this could be the ultimate Sonic (final)boss.

[King Sombrero]

I would like to seemore Arena battles and less chase bosses.The ones in Generations were fun but the got old fast and weren't too hard aside from Egg Dragoon and Unleashed's chase bosses were hard too but only for cheap ass reasons like QTEs. Something more like Egg Viper would be greatly appreciated.

[TalosHedgie]

I'd like to fight some unique bosses. In Sonic 2, each boss was unique, and the current stage you were in kinda affected the boss battles. For example, Chemical Plant Zone. The boss there was Robotnik in his Eggmobile, dumping Toxic Waste on you. While fighting him, you also had something else to watch out for. The platforms which tip, and one slip-up could lead to Sonic's untimely demise. Basically, I'd like to see bosses which had you multitasking. Having you dodge multiple hazards while fighting the boss itself, that adds to the difficulty. Sonic 2 kinda had that thing going with some of its levels, same thing went for 3. When we went into Sonic Adventure, they kinda went back to the "I will easily defeat this guy and nothing else will affect me type thing. Is that a bad thing? Not really. Is it more fun and interesting to see multiple hazards thrown at you in a boss battle? Pssh yeah. When fighting Chaos 0 in Sonic Adventure, you just had to keep smashing him with nothing to worry about. In some levels, you had more than one thing to worry about, such as when fighting Chaos 4, you had to avoid him, but also avoid drowning in the water.

[Megumi Hayashibara]

Hypothetically: Sonic needs to lose the Homing Attack and not give such dead obvious weak spots for bosses, that's what I want, a challenge!

[JezMM]

I just want all sorts really. Assuming as an example, it was Modern gameplay, if a game has 7 zones, I would like:

A 2D arena boss
A 3D arena boss
A 2D chase boss
A 3D chase boss
A circular arena boss
A "level" boss (i.e. Dark Gaia/Perfect Chaos 2011)
A er...

...You know what basically do what Sonic Rush Adventure did. That game had amazingly fun and varied bosses.

[-Clara Oswald-]

I think it's important for the boses to be similar to the design of Sonic 3&K, which are a combination of the Sonic 2 bosses where you have to hit it eight times, and Sonic CD's gimmicky boss which were more about how you hit the boss in the first place, rather than just hitting it. For the 3d games I would prefer an arena type boss. I also want more bosses to suprise Sonic with secondary weapons.

A boss should make you think three things:

1) How am I suppose to damage the boss?
2) How do I (Sonic) stay alive?
3) How many hits does it take?

Edited by MilesKnightwing, 22 July 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[Gabe]

I want to see Eggman use a sort of Iron Man-esque suit to fight Sonic. That would be pretty cool.

I also want to see Sonic to fight a robot (perferrably Metal Sonic)with a super(-esque) form like Super Mecha Sonic (Super Sonic or regular Sonic, it doesn't matter to me):

Edited by Miku Hatsune, 22 July 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[Semi-colon e]

Variety. Rush Adventure has some of the best bosses in the series because of how much variation there is. I do really enjoy most of the chase bosses in Generations, but a bit more variety wouldn't hurt. As long as you don't spend forever waiting around like a lot of the bosses in Sonic Rush or to some extent the Egg Wyvern (though I find this one of the best parts of 06).

[-Clara Oswald-]

Oh and the boss music needs to be top draw. Catchy music can make a boss battle a lot more enjoyable.

[Paradoxical Paradise]

I'm going to say something maybe a bit contraversal.

SCRAP THE SUPERSONIC FINAL BOSS.

Here's a little report I wrote a while back about it. (It's big)

Spoiler

The problem with Super Sonic.

Super Sonic - The idea is brilliant: Sonic becomes faster, invincible, and (in more recent cases) has infinite boost. The only problem is, Sega keep saving the Super forms to the very end – for the final boss, which usually involves “flying”. All very well in 2D, but flying doesn’t work as well in 3D. Also, the super-form requires rings to maintain, otherwise Sonic reverts to his normal form, and as in the case of recent boss fights, dies. You then have to start all over again.

In terms of amtospherics and plot, it’s a great idea – a super-powerful monster tranforms, there seems to be no-way to defeat it, Sonic goes super and the odds are evened. The main problem is this plot piece gets in the way of the gameplay.

A final boss should reflect what you’ve learnt throught the game, you should use your skill against it. Everything you’ve played up to this point is training, prepration for the final fight.

What SEGA keep doing, is training you up throughout the game, then throwing all that out the window and giving you a final boss with a control system and level layout you have never experienced before at ANY point previously in the entire game.

Sonic colours’ final boss had the right idea – It was similar to the previous boss fights, and it had reflected previous elements of the game – the wisps power ups - with Eggman’s “Wisp energy” attacks, this time used agianst you. Any super heroics were saved scrictly for the end, Sonic’s “Final Colour blaster” only ever used as the finishing move. Sega seemed to be taking a step in the right direction.

And then the Time Eater stepped in and ruined EVERYTHING.

The Time Eater – Once again, at the heart of this terrible gameplay is a good idea: Two Sonics, flying through dimensions to “Scramble some Eggman, Super Sonic style!”. However, the idea suffers from all the typical Super Sonic Final boss problems, and also more, due to the added double playstyle. The Sonics are almost impossible to control whist boosting (Something nessicary if you want to beat this boss), rings are almost impossible to collect in 3D mode, and you tend to lose sight of 2D Super Sonic, sending into the borders, doubling ring loss. Nothing Sonic’s friends shout actually directly what to do, except “Switch and go after it!” which when you’re low on rings, is a very, very bad idea.

Super Sonic final fights are part of Sonic culture, getting rid of them intirely would probably make the fanbase whine more than “Green Eyes!”. However, that doesn’t mean they can’t be reformated.

Here’s Idea A – The Colours formula:
Normal Sonic fights the final boss, like an normal boss. When the boss is down to it’s final hit, Sonic goes super and boosts into the boss, destroying it.

And Here’s Idea B – Boost to win!:
Normal Sonic fighting Eggman. Eggman’s new mech is unbeatable, no matter what Sonic does, he can’t stop it. It now becomes an obsticle course, Sonic has to collect rings and avoid getting hurt, otherwise he loses rings. Attacking the boss wins you more rings. Then, when Sonic has enough ring energy, he goes Super and can boost into the mech, doing some serious damage to the machine. If he runs out of rings, he loses his superform, and has collect more rings to go super agian. This whole sequence is repeated until Eggman is defeated.

Edited by Paradox, 22 July 2012 - 10:19 AM.

[POWERLINE]

I liked the Death Egg Robot and Metal Sonic fights in Generations HD more than their inspirations. Sonic 2's final boss with its cheap no-rings restriction is the worst kind of artificial difficulty, and all the Stardust Speedway race has going for it is its music. The Generations updates fixed all these problems. More please.

[PerfectChaos]

I think Generations 3DS handled Super Sonic really well. It was a bit toward the other extreme, really easy, but fun and easy to control.

Anyway, I want a boss fight/escape just like in Unleashed's intro. I want to see that level of determination from Eggman, instead of 'Whoops, I missed. Hit my weakpoint!'

And how about a giant one you destroy from the inside? The cables and wires could form as grind rails, and you have to get into the robot by sliding through a vent.

[VEDJ-F]

I'd want more character battles because it's fun to bash around with another character and hear their reactions. I don't care about the robot bosses, I just see them as a time waster preventing me from getting to the next destination.


/unpopularopinion

[FFWF]

I'd like to agree on the points of variety, and bosses that relect their environment or seem suited to it. If you could swap a boss out and put it in another level without it seeming inappropriate, I don't consider that to be a well-thought-out boss.

I think there is another option, though, although it's not suited to the present "boss stage" trend. Remember Marble Garden Zone Act 2, where you would repeatedly encounter Eggman and be able to attack his machine before the boss battle? I'd like to see something like that again - an enemy who appears repeatedly throughout the level, perhaps even semi-randomised, and who you gradually wear down. And unlike in MGZ, those hits before the final encounter actually count - the more you press it before the final encounter, the easier it is at the end.

Character boss battles are a bit different - more plot-dependent and interaction-dependent. I'm a supporter, but they have to make sense, and not just be a fight rather than a conversation because the game designers needed a boss battle. Although conceivably you could do both... have the characters continue to exchange verbal blows throughout the battle, and the battle can end either when you score sufficient hits, or when the scripted argument reaches its conclusion. Again, though, that's a plot device, and outside of a good context I'm sure I see people objecting to it.

[SiLeNtDo0m]

To be honest, bosses have been one of the weaker elements of EVERY Sonic game. Not just the current ones, all of them. Even in my favourite game of all time (Sonic 2) the bosses are pathetic. Out of every game in the series, I honestly think that Sonic Rush Adventure did them the best (Generations did a pretty good job as well). They were pretty fun and fairly unique. Here's what I think they should and shouldn't do as regards to the bosses:

- No Adventure/Adventure /06 style character battles. Those were complete shit. SA1's in particular were an absolute joke and are quite possibly some of the most pathetic boss battles in the history of gaming. Generations executed it much better, each character battle having they're own unique gimmick and attacks. Silver's in particular was a really cool in Generations. At the same time, they could use a little more complexity in the way that you attack them. Usually it's just homing attack at an opening. I think there should be a little more, but at the same time I don't quite know what.

- Don't have an over-abundance of one kind of boss. Unleashed was really criminal to this. Pretty much all of Sonic's bosses were him chasing down one of Eggman's mechs. There really should only be one (at a stretch two) battle(s) like this. Variety is the spice of life and varied bosses makes for a more fun experience like Rush Adventure and Generations.

- Don't have the mini bosses from S3&K. Most people would object to this but honestly I thought they were all a pointless waste of time. They were all extremely generic and bland in their design and they don't even do anything really interesting. Though to the credit of the S3&K bosses they were refreshingly challenging unlike the bosses from the previous games. So yeah, bosses should also be a little more challenging like that. Start easy, then get harder as you progress.

- No Super Sonic as the main final boss. I don't feel I need to explain why. Paradox put it very eloquently so just read that reply.

- I'd quite like to see more giant bosses. Like Shadow of the Colossus size goliaths that Sonic has to physically run and platform up to reach various weakpoints on the body. I think that would be pretty cool to see. In this day and age I feel a lot of platformers need to have a sense of spectacle to their bosses. A sense of flair and style to make them memorable. And quite a simple way of doing that is by simply making them huge.

[The Conductor]

I'd like to see a few more "personal" boss fights. Against enemies that are Sonic's size. Like the fights with Shadow in SA2 and Silver in 06.

Edited by The Conductor, 22 July 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Gabe]

I'm going to say something maybe a bit contraversal.

SCRAP THE SUPERSONIC FINAL BOSS.

Here's a little report I wrote a while back about it. (It's big)

Spoiler

The problem with Super Sonic.

Super Sonic - The idea is brilliant: Sonic becomes faster, invincible, and (in more recent cases) has infinite boost. The only problem is, Sega keep saving the Super forms to the very end – for the final boss, which usually involves “flying”. All very well in 2D, but flying doesn’t work as well in 3D. Also, the super-form requires rings to maintain, otherwise Sonic reverts to his normal form, and as in the case of recent boss fights, dies. You then have to start all over again.

In terms of amtospherics and plot, it’s a great idea – a super-powerful monster tranforms, there seems to be no-way to defeat it, Sonic goes super and the odds are evened. The main problem is this plot piece gets in the way of the gameplay.

A final boss should reflect what you’ve learnt throught the game, you should use your skill against it. Everything you’ve played up to this point is training, prepration for the final fight.

What SEGA keep doing, is training you up throughout the game, then throwing all that out the window and giving you a final boss with a control system and level layout you have never experienced before at ANY point previously in the entire game.

Sonic colours’ final boss had the right idea – It was similar to the previous boss fights, and it had reflected previous elements of the game – the wisps power ups - with Eggman’s “Wisp energy” attacks, this time used agianst you. Any super heroics were saved scrictly for the end, Sonic’s “Final Colour blaster” only ever used as the finishing move. Sega seemed to be taking a step in the right direction.

And then the Time Eater stepped in and ruined EVERYTHING.

The Time Eater – Once again, at the heart of this terrible gameplay is a good idea: Two Sonics, flying through dimensions to “Scramble some Eggman, Super Sonic style!”. However, the idea suffers from all the typical Super Sonic Final boss problems, and also more, due to the added double playstyle. The Sonics are almost impossible to control whist boosting (Something nessicary if you want to beat this boss), rings are almost impossible to collect in 3D mode, and you tend to lose sight of 2D Super Sonic, sending into the borders, doubling ring loss. Nothing Sonic’s friends shout actually directly what to do, except “Switch and go after it!” which when you’re low on rings, is a very, very bad idea.

Super Sonic final fights are part of Sonic culture, getting rid of them intirely would probably make the fanbase whine more than “Green Eyes!”. However, that doesn’t mean they can’t be reformated.

Here’s Idea A – The Colours formula:
Normal Sonic fights the final boss, like an normal boss. When the boss is down to it’s final hit, Sonic goes super and boosts into the boss, destroying it.

And Here’s Idea B – Boost to win!:
Normal Sonic fighting Eggman. Eggman’s new mech is unbeatable, no matter what Sonic does, he can’t stop it. It now becomes an obsticle course, Sonic has to collect rings and avoid getting hurt, otherwise he loses rings. Attacking the boss wins you more rings. Then, when Sonic has enough ring energy, he goes Super and can boost into the mech, doing some serious damage to the machine. If he runs out of rings, he loses his superform, and has collect more rings to go super agian. This whole sequence is repeated until Eggman is defeated.

Sonic Colors (Wii ver.) didn't have a Super Sonic final boss.