65 replies to this topic

[KingdomOfGod]

Usually discussions involving the plot of Sonic Generations revolve around its negative and disappointing aspects. I in no way regard Generations plot as being exceptional but I do feel often the disappointment of the game's plot hinders a proper appreciation and interest in what I feel are some of the plot's strengths. I list a couple such examples:

1.) The Progression of Sonic: ​I enjoyed how they actually made the boost a subject of plot involvement. Recall the scene when the two Sonic's are racing to the recently rejuvenated Chaos Emerald and Modern Sonic surpasses Classic Sonic when tapping in his unique ability to boost leaving Classic Sonic mesmerized. If I recall correctly, not even the Spin-Dash had that kind of plot attention to detail. Modern Sonic's ability to boost is a material instance of Sonic's physical abilities evolving over the course of history. The point is demonstrated by Modern Sonic's ability to defeat Perfect Chaos while in base form due to the Boost being able to replicate the water surface mobility of the Thunderbolt Attack from Sonic Adventure. Furthermore, Sonic developed not just in physical abilities but also in overall leadership intangibles. His coaching of Classic sonic particularly in the cut-scene leading up to the Final Boss displayed Modern Sonic's wisdom acquired steadily over the course of his many adventures.

2.) The deterioration of Eggman: The juxtaposition between Classic Eggman and Modern Eggman indicate subtly that Eggman's moral character and sanity has noticeably deteriorated over the course of time. Modern Eggman is far more domineering, insulting, impatient and overall more nasty than Classic Eggman (Robotnik). Furthermore, Robotnik's rhetorical question, "Will I really get that crazy?" as well as his quickness to resign and entertain the possibility of living a normal life as a teacher upon learning of Modern Eggman's countless failures imply initially Eggman was once more sensible and sane than he is now. As it is in the present, Eggman is irrevocably fixated on destroying Sonic and has become increasingly blinded to the light of reality as time progresses.


3.) The appreciation of Sonic by his friends: For some reason or another the fact that Sonic's friends where willing to arrange a surprise birthday party for him really resonates with me. It bespeaks the tremendous amount of love and respect Sonic has gained from his peers. This is an insight only a fan who has followed Sonic for a while can truly appreciate as such a fan can make sense of why the various characters would attend. Despite faith in Sonic being assumed throughout the series by the rest of the cast it was refreshing to see them collectively express it in such concrete fashion. Indeed, the respect which Sonic commands is so strong that Blaze is willing to transverse her dimension to celebrate Sonic's birthday. The point can be equally made with Knuckles suspending his guarding duties in view of Sonic's birthday. Within this framework, the cheering for Sonic to succeed against the two Eggmans at the games end is a lot less cheesy.

4.)Implications Of The the Opening and Ending Birthday Scenes: I Also appreciated how authentic the two birthday scenes where. Like Colors, it faithfully portrayed a sense of the day in the life of the Sonic universe. Despite not having much cross character dialogue the scene solidified and played on the roles and relationships previously established in the sonic mythos. Knuckles and Rouge still appear to have mutual interest in one another, Blaze and Cream have remained close friends, Shadow remains distant and dissimilar from the rest of the cast etc.

Edited by KingdomOfGod, 30 July 2012 - 03:04 AM.

[Jango]

These are pretty cool and interesting things you pointed up, even makes the SG plot sounds a lil less simple. I just found weird the friends thing. Big wasn't in the b-day party, that means he doesn't likes Sonic? XD

Edited by Jango, 30 July 2012 - 03:11 AM.

[Azure Yakuzu]

If anything, seeing two Eggman on screen more than makes up for the story in that game. God that was awesome.

[Diogenes]

Generations had a plot?

The Condemnation of Commendations:

Point #1: So Sonic's gotten stronger, big deal. And considering the animosity between parts of the fanbase, I think it was kind of a poor decision to portray modern Sonic as uniformly better than classic.

The point is demonstrated by Modern Sonic's ability to defeat Perfect Chaos while in base form due to the Boost being able to replicate the water surface mobility of the Thunderbolt Attack from Sonic Adventure.

Perfect Chaos isn't plot, he's a boss fight. He's just nostalgia bait set up for Sonic to knock down and move onto the next bit of nostalgia bait. And honestly if anything I feel the fight cheapens Chaos more than it shows Sonic's growth positively, considering Chaos was called the "God of Destruction". I don't entirely like the precedent of Sonic, in his normal form, taking down a so-called god as just a speed bump in a game's story.

Furthermore, Sonic developed not just in physical abilities but also in overall leadership intangibles. His coaching of Classic sonic particularly in the cut-scene leading up to the Final Boss displayed Modern Sonic's wisdom acquired steadily over the course of his many adventures.

"Keep moving!" really does not count as wise tactical advice.

Concerning the interaction of the two Sonics I really feel they made them too chummy, and it was a missed opportunity for some more punkish interactions. I would have rather had the two Sonics not trust each other at first, maybe fight a bit, y'know, have some actual conflict, and then patch up their differences when shit got real. As it is, it's just bland.

Point #2: ...okay this one is actually not bad. But then, Eggman is pretty much always good; the game's biggest Eggman-related flaw is that there isn't enough of him (even with there being two of him).

Point #3: It's a birthday party, man, they're not throwing a parade in his honor.

This is an insight only a fan who has followed Sonic for a while can truly appreciate as such a fan can make sense of why the various characters would attend.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why some of these characters are here. Has Sonic actually spoken with the Chaotix at any point? Does anyone actually care about Cream? This might have had more weight if the characters actually had established and meaningful relationships. As it is, even Sonic's supposedly closest friends rarely have any chemistry with him, and the extended cast...who are these douchebags again? It feels fake, like they threw in characters to meet some quota (which is probably pretty much what they did).

The point can be equally made with Knuckles suspending his guarding duties in view of Sonic's birthday.

Come on, these days it seems he'll take any excuse to get off the island. We've had more than enough arguments over Knuckles' abandoning his duties for this to hold any real weight.

Point #4: Authentic compared to what? We've never really seen what a normal day is like for these characters. And honestly it feels really generic, to the point where you could swap the characters with any random thing and have it work. It doesn't really capture anything "Sonicy". And if this is supposed to be praiseworthy character interaction, pffeh. In the whole game, besides the Sonics, Tailses, and Eggmen, no one interacts with anyone for more than a few seconds, total.

[Dr. Ivo Eggman Robotnik]

These are pretty cool and interesting things you pointed up, even makes the SG plot sounds a lil less simple.

Not really. Though, this is nice, it should actually be secondary.

I don't entirely like the precedent of Sonic, in his normal form, taking down a so-called god as just a speed bump in a game's story.

Meh, me neither. I just like to think that Chaos is weaker in this dream/time sequence. What was even fueling Chaos here? The emeralds were all still fully charge. To me, he's more of an illusion.

Edited by WIttyUsername, 30 July 2012 - 04:16 AM.

[Soniman]

I wonder how long it will taje for this topic to get .....oh, nevermind.

Edited by The Noodle, 30 July 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[Phos]

1: Ahh, no don't do that!! Ahh, that's all wrong.

By the way Generations makes New sonic look like a dork, though it's not like they had to try hard.

2:

...okay this one is actually not bad

How could anything be lamer than modern Eggman? He's about one half notch away from Sonic X Eggman who you could defeat by ignoring him until he goes away. The only thing modern Eggman's done right, err well, effectively is not finish floors, about on par with Robotnik's "traps" in vanilla Sonic 3.

3: The birthday party is one of the most forced scenes I've ever seen, throw in a howley french-ish accent and you have a deleted scene from The Room. By the way, because Sonic's never aged, You have this strange cast of characters in universe celebrating his real life anniversary, what's with that?

4: This is the same thing as number 3.

[Ekaje]

Something could be lamer than modern Eggman by just being a generic villain like almost every other depiction of him.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Are people really upset that Modern Sonic was presented as better than Classic Sonic? I mean unless you have a huge nostalgia boner, that's really insignificant in the grand scheme of things, especially since Modern is his older self, so it kind of stands to reason that he'd be a slight bit more powerful. I do admit there should have been some type of conflict there though, here you have a character with the ego the size of Texas, and you can't even make an relationship out of that instead just opted to make them buddy-buddy, that's so damn lame.

[Phos]

Here's a thought: So many times I've seen "Oh, Sonic wasn't even really a chaarcter back then", but then in Generations he acts basically the same way he did in the Genesis games and guess what, he was the better character.

Are people really upset that Modern Sonic was presented as better than Classic Sonic? I mean unless you have a huge nostalgia boner, that's really insignificant in the grand scheme of things, especially since Modern is his older self, so it kind of stands to reason that he'd be a slight bit more powerful. I do admit there should have been some type of conflict there though, here you have a character with the ego the size of Texas, and you can't even make an relationship out of that instead just opted to make them buddy-buddy, that's so damn lame.

New sonic being the older version of Classic never made any sense to me.

[Sora]

It never made sense to me that people never thought as modern sonic as the a older sonic. I mean, he has to have aged to get to where he is. He didn't just stop aging. Or look at it from outside the games. He's still older sonic since sonic's had many games.

[Azure Yakuzu]

Here's a thought: So many times I've seen "Oh, Sonic wasn't even really a chaarcter back then", but then in Generations he acts basically the same way he did in the Genesis games and guess what, he was the better character.

He really didn't have much of a character, unless you just don't like Sonic in general.

New sonic being the older version of Classic never made any sense to me.

Does it really need to?

[-Mark-]

It never made sense to me that people never thought as modern sonic as the a older sonic. I mean, he has to have aged to get to where he is. He didn't just stop aging. Or look at it from outside the games. He's still older sonic since sonic's had many games.

Except Modern Sonic is (in a roundabout way) actually younger than Classic Sonic.

Sonic's officially stated age, even during the classic era, was 16. In 2003, they changed that to 15. Sonic has been 15 for the last nine years, and before that he was 16 for god knows how long.

Sorry, I've said it a million times before, but I find the idea of Classic Sonic 'becoming' Modern Sonic over time total bullshit. Nobody changes that much as they grow older (eye colour, eyelids, etc). And if that were true, what about Eggman, who was already an adult in his Classic form? The fact that his change in appearance between Classic and Modern is even more drastic yet less justifiable just makes the whole thing feel ridiculous. Did the cast have major reconstructive surgery or something? It was a design change that happened beyond the fourth wall. The characters didn't suddenly acknowledge that they all looked different in SA1. Having both Classic and Modern designs in the same game fucks with the series canon so damn badly that I seriously wish the game wasn't canon. D:

Edited by -Mark-, 30 July 2012 - 06:45 AM.

[Ethan Thomas]

I still was a little bummed that Jaleel White did not voice classic Sonic; I still tremble at the nostalgia rush that that would've given me.

I also felt that the game was a bit too short and simple. It would have been nice if there would've been a hard mode for the levels as there was for the boss gates.

[ChaosSupremeSonîc]

Here's a thought: So many times I've seen "Oh, Sonic wasn't even really a chaarcter back then", but then in Generations he acts basically the same way he did in the Genesis games and guess what, he was the better character.

No, he was just a character who's personality you barely paid any attention to back in the Genesis games beyond his idle animations. Compare that to his modern self when he puts his personality far out there very awkwardly and forced at times and it becomes clear that the only reason Classic is somehow the "better" character was because he didn't come off as annoying in anyway and, should anyone else want to go there, nostalgia.

I could go on, but that's pretty much the gist of it.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Sorry, I've said it a million times before, but I find the idea of Classic Sonic 'becoming' Modern Sonic over time total bullshit. Nobody changes that much as they grow older (eye colour, eyelids, etc). And if that were true, what about Eggman, who was already an adult in his Classic form? The fact that his change in appearance between Classic and Modern is even more drastic yet less justifiable just makes the whole thing feel ridiculous. Did the cast have major reconstructive surgery or something? It was a design change that happened beyond the fourth wall. The characters didn't suddenly acknowledge that they all looked different in SA1. Having both Classic and Modern designs in the same game fucks with the series canon so damn badly that I seriously wish the game wasn't canon. D:

You're completely right! Such sheer biological inconsistency is ridiculous. Why, it's almost as if they're cartoon-styled characters in a video game that openly violates the fourth wall on occasion.

Stop looking at the rank screen area, Sonic. You're breaking my immersion!

[Diogenes]

How could anything be lamer than modern Eggman?

Seriously? He's got more personality than the rest of the cast put together.

Sorry, I've said it a million times before, but I find the idea of Classic Sonic 'becoming' Modern Sonic over time total bullshit.

And like I said last time, I find your reaction to be bullshit. You're getting mad because a bunch of cartoon characters aren't conforming to some entirely arbitrary biological standard. If you're pissed about this, you should be equally pissed about the dozens of other things that make our favorite talking blue bipedal superfast hedgehog impossible. All you're accomplishing is making yourself miserable by fixating on this. Accept it and move on.

[Remz]

No, he was just a character who's personality you barely paid any attention to back in the Genesis games beyond his idle animations. Compare that to his modern self when he puts his personality far out there very awkwardly and forced at times and it becomes clear that the only reason Classic is somehow the "better" character was because he didn't come off as annoying in anyway and, should anyone else want to go there, nostalgia.

No way was Sonic just defined by his "idle animations" every bit of the character was infused with vibes of coolness, 90s coolness, but coolness none the less.

From his in game animations, yes but also from SEGA's insane marketing blitz and the related media (comics, TV) around at the time. It was about his "attitude".

Sonic was all about the personality, and that's the main reason (apart from great games!) he is as big as he is instead of just being another dud mascot character like Bubsy or Cool Spot. Saying anything else is distorting the past.

[JezMM]

You're completely right! Such sheer biological inconsistency is ridiculous. Why, it's almost as if they're cartoon-styled characters in a video game that openly violates the fourth wall on occasion.

Stop looking at the rank screen area, Sonic. You're breaking my immersion!

While you're right, there is a different depth of expected immersion between gameplay and cut-scenes. Sonic looking at the ranking screen is no less immersion breaking than stuff like Omochao explaining the controls or the fact that... well where the hell do all the monitors/capsules come from, etc. Or things like Sonic searching the islands of Apotos for someone who knows Chip being represented by a very linear obstacle course action stage.

Meanwhile, Generations goes and puts something majorly 4th wall breaking into the actual storyline - the one part where the game says "alright timeout, that gameplay was of course just representative of the story, here's how things really are".

[Paradoxical Paradise- Left]

No way was Sonic just defined by his "idle animations" every bit of the character was infused with vibes of coolness, 90s coolness, but coolness none the less.
From his in game animations, yes but also from SEGA's insane marketing blitz and the related media (comics, TV) around at the time. It was about his "attitude".

Yes, but the comics and the shows made him seem like... well, a bit of a jerk, really (Fleetway especially). I won't deny that that media represantation made it's way into the games, but at least sonic was a less of a jerk.