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Pro Piracy


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#1 Wolfy

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 08:49 PM

YAR.

So to make things clear before I start:

---

1. Yes I know there's a piracy topic (2 actually), but instead of being a necropostmancer on a topic that's on the idea as a whole, I wanted to concentrate on the possible pros and overlooked benefits of what internet piracy could do.

2. This isn't a thread to persuade you and influence you to go outright pirate. DO NOT post things to download, links for places to pirate, and in general just use your head. Actually, don't even state that you do or have pirated before overall. It's still illegal, and we don't support being a messenger for such things. This is a big kid topic, so please don't ruin it.

---

So yeah, obviously internet piracy is a big no-no and frowned upon, but I'm willing to bet money that everyone here has at least done it at one point in your internet lives. It is a crime, yet it seems to be one of those things that doesn't get punished to the extremes, since it's quite simply hard to lock up just about everyone on the planet *shot*.

The point I want to get to however, are there actually benefits to piracy that people are over looking? I'm not saying "hur, as the "consumer," free things is beneficial herp," but more over talking about if the owners of said material have any gain from the act. The clouded line is what form of media in my opinion, but there are of course more things to look at past that.

Music is the big one that comes to mind, and sort of why I created this topic. Independent musicians on the internet STRIVE for exposure. Without the view count, you quickly fade off, and you don't grow in the public eye. A number one balance that's hard to, well, balance, is the ratio of getting paid for your content, and views. A lot of musicians want to get paid for the hard work they've poured into their works, and many actually survive off it, but the problem is if you "scare away" potential fans with a price tag. As funny as it sounds, it happens.

The catch is, piracy is the problem of this. People can easily rip things from the internet in a number of fashions, so when you as an artist have a price tag over your work, lots quickly decide it's not worth the trouble. But what if piracy is also the solution? Lapfox, if I may use an example artist, actually clearly promotes that people outright pirate his work (up at the top if you'd like to see his Q/A):

Q: I PIRATED YOUR MUSIC!
A: great! piracy rules. piracy and filesharing are great promotional tools, and help spread the word of artists. people that love the music they pirate generally do end up supporting the artists, and the only people that think otherwise are the RIAA and the labels under its umbrella. if you buy some music from me and want to send it to your friends, go ahead! i don't care what you do with it as long as you aren't directly reselling or bootlegging it as a whole. use it in your YouTube videos, post it on your website, whatever!


Is this something that's agreeable? It's a firm stance on the idea, but is actually beneficial in the long run, and is it hurting more people than supporting? Even if so, are the people that actually matter in all of it being supported, and should that be all that matters anyways? I mean there will always be the fans that want to support their favorite things to ensure there's more of it, and I doubt internet piracy is a force that can be stopped, so is it right to join the "if you can't beat 'um, join 'um!" phrase and farm as many as "these fans" as you can?

The reason I ask this is because it'd be stupid to have a narrow vision that only listeners/fans and the sole artist are the only people involved. Radio, record labels, audio engineers, promotional folks, advertisement, companies that provide software and hardware, and the seemingly endless list of job placements are affected by this. You could argue that some of these titles are falling behind the times thanks to the internet.

I mean, what band has the budget to actually go to a studio and book time for professional recordings anymore? As a student of Mid-Ocean School of Media Arts (MOSMA), a large percentage of bands that came in for our practice were older guys in their late 30s and 40s that seemed accustomed to way things have been working through out the late 20th century, and mind you that since we were students, their time was free. Are the people of our age, and the generation to come going to still do this? Or is increasingly being diminished to next to nothing? Sort of like recording an album with a tape machine is almost unheard of anymore?

We're at an age where getting your hands on your own software to create music is do able with little to no money, and can actually be achieved without spending a dime legally. There are free-ware DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations), and there's free plugins and virtual instruments. I'd be liar to say that people only take this route though. Many people obtain cracked copies of DAWs as well as components for them. This is where I ask if piracy benefits are determined by the media source. Could programmers of said programs actually survive off their material in the same fashion that I presented with the independent musician? I tend to side with "no." I could totally be wrong, but I guess that's where you guys come in.

I'm really interested where people hold a ground on this. I mean, do you get the point I'm trying to present here? Am I missing something or is this a strategy that works with the current way of things? The reason I leave this as a broad open "Pro Piracy" and not "Pro Music Piracy," is if you think there are benefits to the artists overall, or is it just in music? I mean, do you see this applying (of course with different circumstances to fit) to film? drawn art? television shows, etc? Are we in an age that you're better off being a freelancer if your craft can be obtained online?

To put my two cents, as a musician, I also welcome people to pirate my music (I'm speaking solely myself and my own work). I'm no where near a level where I can survive off my own product, and I'm constantly fighting the battle of getting more fans and constant views. So if as many people could share my work as possible, I see that as helping me in the long run. It's proven that there's fans of my work that would gladly chip a few dollars my way because they think I deserve it. It's why I like Bandcamp's feature of "name your price." It's like the ultimate middle ground of making the consumer feel less guilty about owning works illegally, and it allows the artist to dish out their product as widely as possible, yet still "holding out a hat for donations" if you will. If I were to say what I've made, it's actually been just about enough to cover the costs of the commissions I pay to other artists to do my album artwork (which are a great way of supporting drawn-arts you love if I might add). I figure the more I push, the bigger I'll be able to become, and every bit of help of this spread is totally worth it.

This is one of those things I could talk about all day, since I find it interesting looking at the issue from more perspectives than one, and there's so many "sub classes" of media volume, that it feels endless. Truth is I have a paper to write on music in general for the end of my course here by Thursday, and this was the topic I came up with. My instructors were totally fine with the idea, and interested in the results in general. So that said, I asked my questions, and would really love to hear what you guys think on the matter of pro piracy =D.

TL;DR VERSION
Piracy from the artist perspective and if there's benefits of it. Does it depend on the media type, if their are benefits, are they good for everyone? Good for those who matter in the loop? Please read the two points at the top I made before anything, and honestly, if you want the full grasp on what I'm saying, just take a few minutes to read the whole thing, since I don't think a tl;dr does it justice.

#2 Gen

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 08:57 PM

My head is spinning. *Confused, lol, what is happening?*

#3 Emmett L. Brown

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:12 PM

One legitimate positive effect of piracy is that the delays between local and international releases have been significantly reduced since foreigners started downloading pirate copies of movies and shows they want to watch rather than wait for it to be available in their region.

I can remember when it was unheard of for a highly-anticipated movie to premiere worldwide. Now it's generally the norm.

#4 /_JXJ_\

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:13 PM

*Already reads a bunch of the passage*

*Skims down and sees a tl;dr version*

FUUUUU---

Anyway I think it's cool if only to spread word about the author and not reselling it or claiming it as your own.

#5 Carbo

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:13 PM

My head is spinning. *Confused, lol, what is happening?*


Don't post pointless spam like this. This is the second time you've went into a topic and not done anything to contribute to a discussion but pointing out your confusion.

#6 y cant solkia crawl

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:19 PM

Oh here's one.

In terms of games, some games never make it outside japan. Games some people really want to play.

Games like Tales of Phantasia (SF and PSX), Tales of Innocence, and Rockman and Bass all have translation patches you can apply to roms/isos.

I'd really prefer to buy the games themselves, but I don't speak japanese, so fan patches are really my only choice.

Also, somethings, like the Okami OST are WAY too expensive to import. I saw it going for $70 used on Amazon.

#7 188DarkRevived

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

One of the main reasons why I migrated from YouTube to DailyMotion is because the YT Staff kept giving me strikes for continuous copyright infringements. They even went as far as saying the the holders of the original copyrights are threatening to sue me, and saying that my account could get suspended sooner or later.
I feel that they were being extremely unfair, because:
1.) I didn't upload actual episodes of television shows/films. What I did was make AMVs out of short and re-arranged selected scenes. Therefore, in a sense I was advertising the shows/films to my watchers rather than allowing them to steal the official product in its entirety.
2.) The mp3s which I placed into my AMVs were deliberately degraded in the quality of the bitrate and the pitch was modified. All of that was intentionally done to deter people from stealing the song from my channel and to force them to hopefully pay for the higher-quality recording of the song at some other place.
3.) Despite not having any written permissions to use copyright content, I never plaguarized. I always gave credit to the companies and/or persons who were responsible for making the great content which in turn allowed me to make creative contributions of my own. I always typed their names and titles in the descriptions and I even included them as keywords & searchtags for my videos.

If YT really wants for people like me to stop being "pirates" then perhaps they should tell the people where they need to go to obtain such "written permissions" instead of denying them the right of having such permissions entirely.

So yeah, DailyMotion is my home now. They don't threaten people with lawsuits and account suspensions.

Edited by 188DarkRevived, 12 August 2012 - 01:06 AM.


#8 LunarEdge

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:04 AM

I wouldn't call it piracy when it comes to independent or "new" artist (be it music, video, w/e). When they start and have the intention of making money off of their art, music for example, they should offer it up for free (can free stuff really be pirated?) and that's usually the cast with a majority of independent artist I listen to on youtube, soundcloud and w/e other site I am directed too. If I find myself liking the product, in this case... music... I find myself supporting their future work via purchase when they release it with a price. If I find myself liking music from well-known, "mainstream" artist... I think we all know what route I will probably take.

It's kinda like crack/cocaine... the dealer gives a newcomer a free sample at first... then THEY COME CRAWLING BACK FOR MOAR!!

It's actually a good business plan if you ask me.

#9 Remz

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:34 AM

I think if you're a starting musician, releasing some tracks online on soundcloud or whatever for free is a no brainer. Exposure early on is worth may more then the shitty sales you're going to make selling your EP behind a paywall.

play shows, release tracks online, make yourself accessible. Just like LunarEdge said, if you like it already you are way more likely to fork out bux later. example: Purity Ring, current darlings of electronic pop released their music first through channels like Tumblr and Soundcloud.

#10 Jayhawker30

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:40 AM

I make an effort to eventually buy everything I pirate.

#11 XD375

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:24 AM

I make an effort to eventually buy everything I pirate.

Yeah, this. I wouldn't be a Community fan if I wasn't able to download the early episodes to "test drive" the series, and despite watching the first two seasons via torrents, I still bought the DVDs and I consider myself to be one of the show's biggest supporters. I'm an avid TV watcher and my "TV on DVD" collection is huge. And I'd have none of these DVD sets if I wasn't able to watch them through torrenting first.

And I plan on buying all of these seasons a second time if Blu-ray releases ever happen.

#12 Semi-colon e

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:52 PM

I ended up buying Metroid: Zero Mission and Fusion, as well as the double pack for Castlevania (Harmony of Dissonance and Aria of Sorrow) on GBA by first emulating these games. I'm certain it goes with music as well, albeit not quite in the same way.

Sometimes it's easy to be very tight with your money on what to buy (because everything is so expensive these days when you're a tight bastard like me :P), so experiencing it for free can convince you it's worth paying for if you experience the product in it's "intended" format, though I'm not quite sure how that relates.

Edited by Semi-colon e, 12 August 2012 - 12:54 PM.


#13 NoahTH

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:45 PM

If I pirate, it's usually game music that was never released on CD. Also, I think the following video is appropriate:


#14 Speederino

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:12 PM

On the gaming side, I really see nothing wrong with downloading old games that have never been put up for resale. I mean damn, how else do you think Earthbound became such a cult classic years after its release? It's not because people went on Amazon and bought a used cartridge for $150, I'll tell you that much. It's also a great way to get aquanted with the game libraries of systems you might not have owned at the time.

As for newer games, for the most part I don't support pirating them but I won't deny there are some legitimately good reasons for it. Before I had a PS3, I was desperate to get GTA IV. I had my computer, but the specs were a bit iffy. I had played games that technically shouldn't have work according to the requirements, yet they ended up fine regardless. The problem was that GTA IV wanted a video card with a minimum of 512MB of RAM. But everyone told me that the RAM wasn't really the important aspect of a video card, and these days I can confirm this since Skyrim also requires 512MB works perfectly fine (Mine only has 128, FYI). But at the time, I wanted to play it safe. There was no demo, and I didn't want to blow $50 on a game that might not have worked. So yeah, I downloaded it. And it did NOT work. At all. But even if it had, I genuinely would have deleted it anyways. I downloaded for the purpose of trying it out and trying it out only.

The problem I have is when people are not honest about that and never intend to actually buy it.

Edited by Speederino, 12 August 2012 - 09:12 PM.





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