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Does Sonic really need a story?


Bright Eyes

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I have to say that people exaggerate the amount of story the classic games had. There was a theme running through the games of Sonic needs to defeat Robotnik and save his friends. This was obviously symbolic of nature vs machinery but beyond this the games barely had a story.

Sonic 1 - Play as Sonic, save friends and defeat Robotnik.

Sonic 2 - Exactly the same as Sonic 1 except Robotnik has built a Death Egg

Sonic CD - Sonic travels to little planet, has to save amy from Metal Sonic, and free his friends from Robotnik

Apart from Sonic 3 which had a more substantial storyline (although that wasn't so big really) the stories in the classic games were barely there. There was a constant theme but the stories were wafer thin seeing as the games were designed with speed-running in mind and not for deep story-telling.

I also feel that the vast mythology Sonic has is a burden on him now. There is so much canon to keep in mind the games get bogged down in this huge over-reaching chronology. That's part of the reason Sonic Colours actually looks interesting (seeing as it mainly ignores the canon).

I think Sonic suits themes that call you to use your imagination rather than explicit stories with deep narratives.

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What parts of mythology are explicitly bogging the series down that weren't apparent in the older titles to begin with (things like what the Chaos Emeralds do or that Knuckles' ancestors are dead)? With the exception of character arcs (Shadow) and event arcs (Colors directly leads into Generations), the games are largely episodic anyway.

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I think someone needs to establish the difference between Dark, Deep and just childish.

Because I don't think I've ever played a Dark Sonic game.

When I said GRIMDARKZ it was mostly an exaggeration. It's more that the plots tried to be dark and edgy, but have aged to a point where sometimes it's just tacky or silly. Shadow the Hedgehog is the biggest example of trying too hard.

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I hate the assumption that kids' entertainment has to be light, pandering material. Kids can handle darker themes. Kids can also handle sophisticated writing with genuine effort put into it. Disney, Pixar, and Ghibli works are all material that can be enjoyed by kids and adults alike.

The difference is that the "dark" Sonic games often had really shaky writing. I think a semi-dark Sonic game can work if it's handled in a way that is more than just GRIMDARKZ. The kinda tone in Unleashed would work well with the right writing direction.

The kind of tone used in Epic Mickey and the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games would be another good direction to steer the series in, as both games can be light when necessary, but aren't afraid of getting a little sinister.

I didn't say dark I said mature. I agree with you that dark children's stuff can be good but not 'mature' gun-swinging Shadow or evil villain Mephilles because it looked like it was trying to be an adult game with blue hedgehogs running around (which I'm afraid I can't really take seriously).

What parts of mythology are explicitly bogging the series down that weren't apparent in the older titles to begin with (things like what the Chaos Emeralds do or that Knuckles' ancestors are dead)? With the exception of character arcs (Shadow) and event arcs (Colors directly leads into Generations), the games are largely episodic anyway.

Oh come on, you know what I mean. There is so much canon going on it's hard for people who aren't diehard fans to get their heads round and everything gets overly-convoluted because of the mass amounts of sub-plots that never seem to end.

Edited by Bright Eyes
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I didn't say dark I said mature. I agree with you that dark children's stuff can be good but not 'mature' gun-swinging Shadow or evil villain Mephilles because it looked like it was trying to be an adult game with blue hedgehogs running around (which I'm afraid I can't really take seriously).

Yeah, I could do without the guns and such, but don't forget that lots of kids these days do end up playing M rated games and think that guns are cool, etc. I don't think it fits with the Sonic lore by any means, but I've definitely seen kids who love Shadow the Hedgehog and think it's a cool game.

Oh come on, you know what I mean. There is so much canon going on it's hard for people who aren't diehard fans to get their heads round and everything gets overly-convoluted because of the mass amounts of sub-plots that never seem to end.

I don't see how it's overly convoluted? Most Sonic games have self-contained stories. Even the Adventure games don't have any blatant connections beyond a few shared elements. Maybe a few specific games are confusing, but I don't see how this reflects the series as a whole.

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Darkness describes the aesthetics of something while maturity in the context of art describes the level of tact and subtlety with which something is handled. As a result, I wouldn't really call Shadow "mature" simply because it's darker elements weren't handled tactfully at all. It is an aesthetically dark game though.

Oh come on, you know what I mean. There is so much canon going on it's hard for people who aren't diehard fans to get their heads round and everything gets overly-convoluted because of the mass amounts of sub-plots that never seem to end.

No, I actually don't know what you mean, because Sonic games are not bogged down with thick, impenetrable, Marvel or DC style continuity where it's impossible for a novice to jump in a later game and not know what's going on, hence why I asked for specific examples.

Edited by Nepenthe
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Yeah, I could do without the guns and such, but don't forget that lots of kids these days do end up playing M rated games and think that guns are cool, etc. I don't think it fits with the Sonic lore by any means, but I've definitely seen kids who love Shadow the Hedgehog and think it's a cool game.

I don't see how it's overly convoluted? Most Sonic games have self-contained stories. Even the Adventure games don't have any blatant connections beyond a few shared elements. Maybe a few specific games are confusing, but I don't see how this reflects the series as a whole.

I'm not a fan of Adventure but it manages to escape the ridiculous canon. I mean the more recent games. Even Sonic Generations has a ridiculous number of Sonic characters that average fans of Sonic like me (who has, until very recently, not owned a Sonic game since 06 because it was so goddamn awful) find ridiculous.

Edited by Bright Eyes
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You know, if you're just getting into the series, I wouldn't call you an average fan. I'd call you a new/noob (no offence) fan.

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You know, if you're just getting into the series, I wouldn't call you an average fan. I'd call you a new/noob (no offence) fan.

I know a lot about the Classic era just not the new games because for a long time Sonic games were so bad I gave up.

That's Sonic Team's fault not mine ;)

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I'm not a fan of Adventure but it manages to escape the ridiculous canon. I mean the more recent games. Even Sonic Generations has a ridiculous number of Sonic characters that average fans of Sonic like me (who has, until very recently, not owned a Sonic game since 06 because it was so goddamn awful) find ridiculous.
If you played up 'till '06, you should recognize every character in Generations.

And Generations is an anniversary game, celebrating the series' 20 year history. It only makes sense that it'd try to include things from that entire 20 year history.

But what does this have to do with the canon being convoluted in the first place? Generations is the exact opposite of convoluted; it's painfully straightforward, little more than a series of levels to run through until you find the final boss. The number of characters has no bearing on it, since aside from the Sonics, Tailses, and Eggmen all they do is exist.

btw:

average fans of Sonic like me
This is a dangerous assumption to make.
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If you played up 'till '06, you should recognize every character in Generations.

And Generations is an anniversary game, celebrating the series' 20 year history. It only makes sense that it'd try to include things from that entire 20 year history.

But what does this have to do with the canon being convoluted in the first place? Generations is the exact opposite of convoluted; it's painfully straightforward, little more than a series of levels to run through until you find the final boss. The number of characters has no bearing on it, since aside from the Sonics, Tailses, and Eggmen all they do is exist.

btw:

This is a dangerous assumption to make.

I forgot who most the characters are! It's been a while :P

Also I thought Sonic Generations was a bit funny because Sonic had a posse of friends and rivals who were never even slightly explained. Although you are right to say it makes a bit of sense for an anniversary game.

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Also I thought Sonic Generations was a bit funny because Sonic had a posse of friends and rivals who were never even slightly explained.
What, are they supposed to reintroduce every character in every game?
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I forgot who most the characters are! It's been a while tongue.png

Also I thought Sonic Generations was a bit funny because Sonic had a posse of friends and rivals who were never even slightly explained. Although you are right to say it makes a bit of sense for an anniversary game.

Yes Sonic needs a story and each of the characters had profiles in the game just go to the collection room.

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What, are they supposed to reintroduce every character in every game?

Well they could calm down in having over ten random characters in one game

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They did have bios in the Collection Room, so if you were really curious you could read a bit about them.

Edited by Pawn
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I think every game should have a story, but it's about finding the right balance, getting the story to suit the style of game.

Games like Sonic 4 Ep2 didn't need massively lengthy cut-scenes to tell a story because the gameplay is simplistic and the simple five or six cut-scenes they did for Sonic and Tails story suited the game perfectly. Sonic 4 Ep1 didn't really feel like it had a story as it only had two of three cutscenes which was not enough. Now take a game like Sonic 3&K which has a good number of cut-scenes and the story nicely develops as you progress through the zone. It works so well.

It's the same with the 3d Sonic games. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic 06 both had loads of cut-scenes which felt right because there was a lot of levels and hub worlds to play through. Generations story was pretty pointless, but Generations wasn't about focusing on a story, it was about playing nostalgia. So whilst a good story would have been appreciated, it wasn't essential.

Think about the upcoming SASRT, is an epic story with loads cut-scenes needed? No.

Edited by NightwingFox
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Well they could calm down in having over ten random characters in one game

If they all actually participated in the story I would agree, but when they're just a series of Princess Peaches, what's the harm?
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Well they could calm down in having over ten random characters in one game

Wow... Sonic Generations was the first Sonic game in years to even have that many characters not counting the fact it was a 20th anniversary game.

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GAH! THIS STUPID STATEMENT ALWAYS MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!

Just because something is made for kids DOES NOT MEAN IT NEEDS TO BE A SHALLOW BRAINLESS STORY! THAT STUPID MENTALITY IS WHY THE STORIES OF SONIC HAVE ONLY GOTTEN SHALLOWER AND SHALLOWER!

Granted, I WILL admit that the "dark and edgy" storylines of the past were not that good, but that was a case of terrible execution (somewhat of a trademark for Sonic Team for some reason), but that does not mean we should abolish a good storyline all together JUST BECAUSE IT's FOR KIDS.

I MEAN LOOK AT MLP: Friendship is Magic! LOOK AT AVATAR THE LAST AIRBENDER. LOOK AT KUNG FU PANDA! LOOK AT EVERY PIXAR FILM EVER MADE!

Whoooa calm down man.

I meant the series was getting 'mature' and grown up and didn't know which direction it wanted to go down.

I love Kung Fu Panda too wink.png (Not a fan of My Little Pony though)

Edited by Bright Eyes
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I believe that the world building of the Sonic franchiese is so amazingly vast that is almost an insult not to have good writting in those games.

my opinion.

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Whoooa calm down man.

I meant the series was getting 'mature' and grown up and didn't know which direction it wanted to go down.

I love Kung Fu Panda too wink.png (Not a fan of My Little Pony though)

Oh. Ok.

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Well I get the idea that everyone wants Sonic to have a story! So in that sense I think my thread has been a success xD

I'll give you that Sonic Generations is probably not the best example but I still think the mythology is getting confusing when some people don't know anything about Shadow or Silver.

Anyway I'm off to bed! Nice chatting

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I'll give you that Sonic Generations is probably not the best example but I still think the mythology is getting confusing when some people don't know anything about Shadow or Silver.

Shadow is the exception rather than the rule, and even then you don't really have to know his entire backstory to know who he is.

And what's confusing about Silver? He's a hedgehog from the future who can move things with his mind.

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Does Sonic really need a story? I don't think it is essential to the game being a success, but honestly, I personally wouldn't like it at all, a Sonic game with no story. I know that gameplay is the most important thing in a video game, but I am one of those that genuinely enjoys the stories; I think it is a nice "bonus" to the game to enjoy along with the gameplay. I think a story gives the player something else to look forward to while playing the game.

Having no story would mean that Sonic's friends would haven even LESS involvement in the games, if any, and their contributions are minimal/barely existant enough. I mean, Sonic's friends are already not playable, so where else would we see them if there was no story of some sort? It's bad enough they are standing around doing pretty much nothing aside from talking way too much...So I guess for the sake of Sonic's friends we need a story. Otherwise there would be absolutely no point for them to be around.

Also for 20+ years, Sonic's games for the most part have had a story, whether it has had real depth to it or has been simply shallow. Either way there has been a story of some sort. So to all of a sudden go without a story (although I do agree that the stories definitely needs some work, finding a balance), that would be quite a change, and it just wouldn't feel right with it not being present in a Sonic game.

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