184 replies to this topic

[Shirou Emiya]

That, and they should know that it is not a terribly good idea to have even two entirely different gameplay styles, no, GENRES seperated into different levels. It's rarely done well, and it shows. Honestly, what were they thinking? IMO, the Werehog was a massive bore with absolutely little difficulty. Okay, better stop myself here. Still, it's an indication that if Sonic Team won't listen to the other two SEGA branches who think that the Werehog was a bad idea, then it's a bad sign.

Edited by The Sniper, 18 June 2009 - 11:42 AM.

[SuperLink]

I bet they thought the sword was stupid too =_=. SW know how much the critics and fans hate Sonic gimmicks.

[Shirou Emiya]

Hey, at least Black Knight was consistent within its own gameplay and genre, and I liked it better than both versions of Unleashed.

[PSI Aqua]

I liked the Werehog(Wii). If it was all Sonic, it would be a VERY short Sonic game and wouldn't make the story as good. The gameplay was also good IMO.
Black Knight was fast and with other things made it a good game. Nuff said.

[Patticus]

I would rather a very short Sonic game with nothing to complain about than half a Sonic game and a muddy, badly designed, incredibly frustrating and downright amateurish other half. Remember that all the early Sonic games can be polished off in an hour or less, and if a Sonic game like that was released now, if it was priced appropriately and distributed properly (download services), the press would not be nearly so harsh, provided no shitty gimmicks were employed for the sake of padding.

[SuperLink]

Yup... also, keep in mind that if anything, story should be sacraficed for gameplay, and never the other way around (like it is for some Sonic games....)

Sonic Unleashed without Werehog would have been a better game, and would have been better received by critics. I'm pretty sure of that.

[lounge]

The funny thing is that Hashimoto and the unleashed art director Kawamura (who created chao ), said that they knew there was going to be hate for the Werehog. I specifically remember reading that in one of the interviews. In fact they even said the reason the werehog was created was to attract people who have never played a sonic game.

[Shirou Emiya]

This whole thing boils down to "Sonic Team aren't the sharpest tools in the shed", basically. Considering their track record as of late, it's not exactly surprising. Not helped by them not taking geniunely good advice from the western branches of SEGA.

[FlameStream]

Hmm, probably in the minority here, but I'm quite happy with the Werehog part XP;
I might also say that I enjoyed it more. The speed segment didn't feel fluid at all (especially jumping). It seemed perfect in the Adventure engine though.

That said, I don't think I'd like a Sonic game with only the SWA "platforming" speed engine.

Concerning SEGA's western state. I don't have much to comment. Things change, let's move on and see what happens.

[ArchangelUK]

Sega of Europe's awesome. They even allow fans to come to their building (NiGHTS Community & SSMB). Communication with fans online (AAUK).

To be fair you're only allowed in CERTAIN parts of the building... we don't do tours or things like that.

Also SOA has a very dedicated Community Team... I'm just somewhat more awesome because I'm the Sonic guy.

[Patticus]

That said, I don't think I'd like a Sonic game with only the SWA "platforming" speed engine.

Frankly, I wouldn't really be happy with a purely speed-based Sonic game either. The whole speed thing needs to be toned down, at least half the time, for the sake of playability, so that we don't need to 'learn' the levels in order to not fuck them up - a good developer can give the player the sensation of travelling at great speeds while not giving them the actual speed (and they already have, if you do your homework). A mixture of perfected rear view speed stages and actual side-on platforming stages, both giving the feeling of speed (or at least haste - bring back the ten minute timer), even if it's no longer than Sonic 2 or something equivalent to that, would be brilliant, and it's oh so doable.

But maybe Sonic Team aren't the developers who should be trusted to do it - they've already shown themselves to be quite out of touch with what gamers actually want. Sure the fanbase laps it up, and kids are too inexperienced to care, but the rest of us who loved the older games but find the newer ones intolerable shouldn't be made to suffer for those two groups.

[SuperLink]

They shouldn't listen to fans, they should listen to professionals OTHER than themselves. The fans don't know whar they want. There was one point where they were all like "SONIC IS ALLL ABOOUUUT SPEEEEED" which is completely wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if those things are what got us "all running no play" games like Rush and Unleashed.

They're still awesome, but the only challenge is endless pits.

[Kiljoy]

I loved Sonic Chronicles, out of all the "new" sonic games out there it's one of my favorites, it and unleashed. I think Bioware did a fantastic job, especially considering they were translating a speedy platformer to an RPG like that. Also I don't see a problem with not using a box, doesn't seem like a big deal.

[Solid SOAP]

I don't see why this is a big deal. Besides the occasional cool looking game and the rare good Sonic game, I never thought SEGA were that great in the first place. I can't think of many SEGA games that I've truely enjoyed besides Jet Set Radio Future, Madworld, certain Sonic games, and potentially that SEGA racing game they're coming out with. I don't really see any reason why this is a big deal, SEGA come out with little but shovelware and generic sports games.

[Metal Gear (sting)RAY]

"Oh, yes. Sega of America and Sega Europe were against the idea of the "Werehog", they said only Sonic stills better, wanted Sonic in 2D(2.5D) sections... but we wanted new challenges, using the same formula again and again was not a good idea for us."

WHAT FORMULA? Outside of being platformers (which the Werehog gameplay was anyway), the mainstream games barely have had a shred of consistency since Sonic Adventure.

Yeah, I tried to put off the idea as long as I could believe it, but unless Sonic Team learns the complexity of Sonic's roots extends beyond mere platforming, the team's going to need a massive reworking if not be replaced altogether.

[SuperLink]

I can't think of many SEGA games that I've truely enjoyed besides Jet Set Radio Future, Madworld, certain Sonic games, and potentially that SEGA racing game they're coming out with.

Heh, and SEGA didn't even make MadWorld, those genius' over at Platinum Games did

I think most of us can agree that SEGA has been in a bit of a mess for a looong time now, probably problems going back to the MegaDrive "golden age" days. Maybe Simon just wanted to get away from it all, it sounded like a headache.

And on the other hand, indie developers always seem to enjoy unique games and most of all, having a good time making them.

EDIT: The problem with the so called formula is that rather than trying to make it WORK it actually got worse and worse..
Lol Sonic Team, it doesn't work like that gang :3

Edited by SuperLink, 18 June 2009 - 03:08 PM.

[Patticus]

"Oh, yes. Sega of America and Sega Europe were against the idea of the "Werehog", they said only Sonic stills better, wanted Sonic in 2D(2.5D) sections... but we wanted new challenges, using the same formula again and again was not a good idea for us."

WHAT FORMULA? Outside of being platformers (which the Werehog gameplay was anyway), the mainstream games barely have had a shred of consistency since Sonic Adventure.

I think he means the formula of having lots of different characters with different gameplay styles, e.g. a mech character, a speed character etc. That's one thing most, if not all of the games have shared.

[Solid SOAP]

"Oh, yes. Sega of America and Sega Europe were against the idea of the "Werehog", they said only Sonic stills better, wanted Sonic in 2D(2.5D) sections... but we wanted new challenges, using the same formula again and again was not a good idea for us."

WHAT FORMULA? Outside of being platformers (which the Werehog gameplay was anyway), the mainstream games barely have had a shred of consistency since Sonic Adventure.

Yeah, I tried to put off the idea as long as I could believe it, but unless Sonic Team learns the complexity of Sonic's roots extends beyond mere platforming, the team's going to need a massive reworking if not be replaced altogether.

Personally I thought that Sonic Unleashed's day levels and bosses were an absolutely perfect forumla for a full Sonic game. The bosses were all quite original, taking ideas from both classic Sonic, Sonic Advance, and even those top-down space-shooting games (The way you avoid bullets in the Egg Devil Ray boss is a lot of you would in Space Invaders). The levels provided a perfect amount of pure platforming and speed, if a bit too much speed during certain sections. And to top it all off, the graphics were beautiful. The night sections were acceptable, but they were generic and nothing more than okay.

I can't think of many SEGA games that I've truely enjoyed besides Jet Set Radio Future, Madworld, certain Sonic games, and potentially that SEGA racing game they're coming out with.

Heh, and SEGA didn't even make MadWorld, those genius' over at Platinum Games did

Isn't that what happens with most, if not all of SEGA's games? I could be wrong, but from what I've seen most of their games they just publish, and they aren't the actual developers for any of them. Again, probably wrong, but that's what I'm seeing a lot of these days.

[SuperLink]

Isn't that what happens with most, if not all of SEGA's games? I could be wrong, but from what I've seen most of their games they just publish, and they aren't the actual developers for any of them. Again, probably wrong, but that's what I'm seeing a lot of these days.

Nope, SEGA like Nintendo make most of their own games, but publish games of some other developers so they can get on the market.

Neither Platinum nor High Voltage are owned by SEGA, they just have a publishing deal.
So I wouldn't call MadWorld a SEGA franchise. The game was already quite near completion before SEGA picked up the publishing rights.

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

I think SEGA owns the MADWORLD franchise. (Like how Capcom still owns Viewtiful Joe) But Platinum Games themselves are seperate.

Also:

SEGA Continues Synergy between Japan, America and Europe as it Gears Up for Success

SAN FRANCISCO & LONDON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--SEGA® of America, Inc., and SEGA® Europe Ltd., today announced a series of management promotions that will further unite SEGA’s global markets to drive growth.

Effective today, the longstanding leader of SEGA’s videogame business, Mr. Naoya Tsurumi, will assume worldwide responsibility for SEGA’s Consumer Business, incorporating SEGA of Japan, SEGA of America and SEGA of Europe.

Mike Hayes is promoted to the newly created position of President & COO of both SEGA of America and SEGA of Europe, reporting directly to Mr. Tsurumi. This new role further aligns the two Western markets and ensures more aggressive collaboration across these growing territories in operations and product development.

“This unified organization will better position SEGA for growth across these key markets,” said Mr. Tsurumi.

“I’m delighted to be heading up the SEGA Western territories at such an exciting time in the company’s resurgence as a leading videogame publisher around the globe,” said Hayes. “As shown at E3 last week, SEGA has a winning line-up of titles over the next 12 months and beyond. The management changes announced today will ensure that SEGA’s Consumer Business is positioned for long-term growth and success.”

After more than four years as President & COO of SEGA of America, Simon Jeffery has resigned to pursue other interests. During his tenure, Jeffery led SEGA’s entrance into new gaming markets such as mobile and grew market share in the U.S. as well as the breadth of SEGA offerings as it transitioned from a hardware company.

Since 1992, Mr. Tsurumi has served in various roles and managed many critical functions at SEGA of America and SEGA of Europe, including overseeing operations, marketing, development and licensing for SEGA’s consumer game products.

http://www.businessw...amp;newsLang=en

Isn't that what happens with most, if not all of SEGA's games? I could be wrong, but from what I've seen most of their games they just publish, and they aren't the actual developers for any of them. Again, probably wrong, but that's what I'm seeing a lot of these days.

They still develop their own games, but they go unnoticed because either they don't advertise them well (Valkyria Chronicles), or they aren't even being released outside of Japan (Yakuza 3).

Also they are still making a lot of arcade games. But again, nobody really notices because arcades are losing popularity.