Sonic Lost World in PAX Prime 2013

[SilentDoom]

And now for a break.

 

 

And now we're back.

If you're one of these people who doesn't believe we should post 'negative' criticisms.... Might wanna skip this one.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lirYtiUp5Lg

 

19 seconds into the video "I don't know what I'm doing"

 

37 seconds into the video "I don't know whats going on so...."

 

It's not until the very end of the video does the player figure out how you attack enemies. Now to those people who say 'well they're not trying to engage with the game' or 'well people just don't like change' or something along those lines.

 

How is this not a problem? We have a new Sonic game and players do not know or can't figure out how you attack enemies without being told or shown?

 

And before someone accuses me or 'we get it you hate the game' or 'stop showing all the bad videos' These are the only videos/previews I can find/that have been uploaded! 

 

1) The guy throughout the video played fairly competently.  He knew from the get go how to use the run trigger, and his run was overall pretty smooth.

 

2) The Homing Attack (at its core) in this game is done the same way as it is in every other Sonic game though (particularly from the Unleashed games onwards).  You wait until you see that homing reticle on the foe and press the jump button again.  Generations did exactly the same thing.  The only difference in terms of the controls is that Generations does a jump dash if there's no reticle whilst Lost World does the double jump (this argument of course doesn't have to do with the mechanics of the attack comparatively).

 

3) The end of the video wasn't even two minutes in though.  In the grand scheme of things that's not very long to figure something out at all.

 

As weird as this sounds, those quotes might not even be relevant to the game, as those quotes in the context of this gameplay don't even make sense.  This player clearly knew what they were doing for the most part.  They knew how to run and spindash and were able to navigate the level with ease.  

 

Honestly I don't necessarily disagree with the point you're trying to get across Hogfather.  The game could definitely use more in terms of accessibility and communicating its controls, but this is a pretty poor example.  

Edited September 1, 2013 by SiLeNtDo0m

[LordMetallix]

There is a prompt on the main screen literally pointing you to the bottom screen. 

There are still people who don't know what the gamepad does and seeing a question mark on the screen with it may not make them look at it. If they wanted it more user friendly they should make an arrow or a voice prompt (which I expect to be in the game) telling you to look at the screen for people who are not used to it.

[RisingForever]

If someone picked up any game without any experience with it they are going to be utterly confused for the first 37 seconds no matter what game it is. He only get hits one time and the only reason he doesn't use the homing attack until the end is because is he is just speeding through the level. Obviously he didn't use the laser wisp at the end so we don't know how he would deal with that, but for a first time playthrough he did strikingly well. 

[Diogenes]

It's not until the very end of the video does the player figure out how you attack enemies. Now to those people who say 'well they're not trying to engage with the game' or 'well people just don't like change' or something along those lines.

 

How is this not a problem? We have a new Sonic game and players do not know or can't figure out how you attack enemies without being told or shown?

Does the fault lie with the game or with the player? From everything I've heard and seen, the controls (possibly excepting the wisps) are pretty straightforward; run on one trigger, spindash on the other, double jump, homing attack, and kick on face buttons. It'll take some time to learn them, since it's not identical to the last game, but not being identical to the last game is hardly a flaw. And every game that gets a demo at a con is going to have people floundering around, simply because it's their first time with it and they don't have a lot of time to learn it.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

I'm not sure what the argument here is even supposed to be. People don't know how to play games they've never played before? No fucking shit they won't, they've never played it before! That's not the mechanics being confusing, it's teh mechanics being new. Not only that, but there are tutorial prompts being shown on-screen anyway, so any issues the player has with not knowing teh controls is entirely the player's fault.

[Cola]

There are still people who don't know what the gamepad does and seeing a question mark on the screen with it may not make them look at it. If they wanted it more user friendly they should make an arrow or a voice prompt (which I expect to be in the game) telling you to look at the screen for people who are not used to it.

 

If you see the controller you're using on screen next to a question mark, chances are people are going to realize that there is something important about it.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Wait a minute, why is he in Windy Hill Zone 1? I thought it was the Gamescom demo?

[SilentDoom]

Wait a minute, why is he in Windy Hill Zone 1? I thought it was the Gamescom demo?

 

Windy Hill 1 was playable at Gamescom as well: 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXoE8E261jo

[Badnik Mechanic]

I'm not sure what the argument here is even supposed to be. People don't know how to play games they've never played before? No fucking shit they won't, they've never played it before!

 

We are talking about attacking enemies in a Sonic game as Sonic, not something like trying to figure out a perfect parray in MGSR or trying to pull off a hyper combo from a street fighter game, people are struggling to use the homing attack in a Sonic game.

 

If this were just one or two people maybe you'd have a point. But it's not, it's the same story over and over, the controls are not user friendly and people blatently can't figure them out unless theres a Sega rep on hand to explain it to them. How is this the fault of the player?

[Blitz 'n Burst]

So wait, were Frozen Factory and Silent Forest only in the preview and not actually playable at Gamescom?

 

Well, damn.

 

edit: Homing attacking is no different in this game than any other game. You press the button, wait for the reticule, and press the button again. How is this any less user-friendly than it was in any other game? It tells you what to do in-game. If you can't figure it out from there, it's entirely on you. Oh, what's this, the game is telling me I can press the right trigger to run? Maybe i'm supposed to press the right trigger to run! I was able to figure out how to play Sonic Adventure within five minutes of experimenting with it, yet people not being able to figure out a move that's been a staple of the franchise for the past decade and hasn't changed at all is now the game's faut?

Edited September 1, 2013 by Blitz 'n Burst

[Diogenes]

We are talking about attacking enemies in a Sonic game as Sonic, not something like trying to figure out a perfect parray in MGSR or trying to pull off a hyper combo from a street fighter game, people are struggling to use the homing attack in a Sonic game.

 

If this were just one or two people maybe you'd have a point. But it's not, it's the same story over and over, the controls are not user friendly and people blatently can't figure them out unless theres a Sega rep on hand to explain it to them. How is this the fault of the player?

What about them isn't user-friendly? What is the part that is difficult for people to grasp?

[Indigo Rush]

I saw absolutely nothing in that video that indicated that it was hard to figure out.

 

Let's recap:

 

1) first few seconds, player doesn't know what to do

2) first half minute, player is still confused, but figures out how to run

3) everything after that, the player is doing a good job

4) finishes the level in 2 minutes

 

If you consider a game that takes less than 2 minutes for a player to get the hang of a bad game, then most games out there are downright terrible. 

Edited September 1, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Sir Tynen]

If the player in the video was able to grasp how to generally play the game in it's most basic form (walking, running and jumping), I don't think the game's controls would really be as unfriendly as you say they are. Someone not knowing how to immediately do a homing attack shouldn't be all chalked up of being the game's fault entirely. Sonic Adventure didn't teach me how to do a homing attack when I first played it, but I didn't just sit there and do nothing because I didn't know about it or what to do, I took control and experimented on what Sonic could do. There are even tutorial prompt bubbles that appear above the screen to indicate there is info on how to play or know what to press to pull of certain moves. Should the game be more lenient to show these tutorials better? Of course, that would be great!

[Shade Vortex]

Just to remind you, they did have the controls listed on a display thing right by the demo. I guess, as I said, not everyone is going to notice/read that... But the SEGA reps should have been telling people that was there, if they were having troubles. But what this game severely needs is in-game "tutorials" that show you what to do early on.

 

Someone else said this too- like how in Colors it would tell you to hit A+A when by the first enemy. In Generations, it would tell you which button to press for Boosting. They were quick, easy to figure out on-screen prompts. Many people seem to outright ignore or not notice the hint bubble things in the levels themselves, or even if they do get them, they skim through or otherwise don't really take in the information.

 

Fact is, this game is different and there are new moves and mechanics that even Sonic veterans cannot fully figure out at first, or at all in such a short span of time. I had trouble figuring out how to do the side kick as opposed to the stun kick, but I gave the demo several plays and figured things out. The bounce>side kick is context sensitive and depends on if you are locked onto an enemy (which did cause some problems when, even though I was by an enemy, the homing reticule was not appearing).

 

Even though my impressions are mostly positive and I'm definitely going to get this game, I think the complaints are well warranted. I see where Hogfather is coming from, and to an extent can agree. This game, like any, has problems. Nothing is perfect, nor will anything ever be.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Shade Vortex

[Gatestormer]

If I remember rightly from my playtime, the homing attack in his game behaves no differently than any other game, it's A + A. 

 

If people not being able to figure that out is a problem, then it's been around for 15 years. 

[Voyant]

We are talking about attacking enemies in a Sonic game as Sonic, not something like trying to figure out a perfect parray in MGSR or trying to pull off a hyper combo from a street fighter game, people are struggling to use the homing attack in a Sonic game.

 

If this were just one or two people maybe you'd have a point. But it's not, it's the same story over and over, the controls are not user friendly and people blatently can't figure them out unless theres a Sega rep on hand to explain it to them. How is this the fault of the player?

 

Hogfather...you are seriously digging here. The controls are not any less straight forward than any other game that been released in recent years. I have no problem with people pointing out negatives, but this is almost as bad as a certain user trying to convince everyone that Lost World has a lack of flow in gameplay.

 

If anything, this is more or less proving my argument of players refusing to learn a new control schemes and in this case; the control scheme change is rather minor when in comes to basics.

 

What I mean is in the video the person was able to go from point A to point B without much stress at all just knowing the basics of the gameplay, the more complicated actions that Balding Spider is suggesting comes with later exploration of the controls and actions. Why must a player of a game with a new engine be a master of it in just 1 playthrough of the first level?

 

I don't understand why this is even an argument...

Edited September 1, 2013 by Voyant

[Radrappy]

We are talking about attacking enemies in a Sonic game as Sonic, not something like trying to figure out a perfect parray in MGSR or trying to pull off a hyper combo from a street fighter game, people are struggling to use the homing attack in a Sonic game.

 

If this were just one or two people maybe you'd have a point. But it's not, it's the same story over and over, the controls are not user friendly and people blatently can't figure them out unless theres a Sega rep on hand to explain it to them. How is this the fault of the player?

 

 

but he. . .played through the level great.  Doesn't that kind of defeat any argument you are making?

Edited September 1, 2013 by Radrappy

[Badnik Mechanic]

but he. . .played through the level great with zero instruction.  Doesn't that kind of defeat any argument you are making?  

 

How many times does he try to attack an enemy and isn't able to do so?

 

Not to mention, he says twice that he doesn't know what to do and theres also the suggestion that someone has told him how to use the run button with that 'run button' line his buddy says later on.

[Radrappy]

How many times does he try to attack an enemy and isn't able to do so?

 

Not to mention, he says twice that he doesn't know what to do and theres also the suggestion that someone has told him how to use the run button with that 'run button' line his buddy says later on.

 

There's never any indication that he was trying to attack enemies.  When he says he doesn't know what he's doing, he's probably just talking about the level in general.  It's just something someone playing a demo would say.  You're reading far too much into it.  The game looks fun and intuitive in this video.  

 

And as others have pointed out, the homing attack is still just the homing attack.  It would have initiated the attack every time he pressed the button twice.  He never even double jumped meaning that he wasn't even tapping the button twice in the first place.  

Edited September 1, 2013 by Radrappy

[Autosaver]

And people complain about Omochao in Sonic games.

 

Now you know why previous Sonic games had an annoying character spout common sense.

[Badnik Mechanic]

There's never any indication that he was trying to attack enemies.

 

He moves Sonic in the direction of the enemy as he jumps towards them, even the camera moves in the direction of the enemies.

 

His intention was to attack them.

[Radrappy]

He moves Sonic in the direction of the enemy as he jumps towards them, even the camera moves in the direction of the enemies.

 

His intention was to attack them.

 

You don't know that.  Jumping over enemies is a perfectly legitimate way to deal them as well.  If the video had been him putzing around for the whole time trying to attack an enemy and not getting it, you might have a case.  Again, the homing attack behaves pretty much as it has since SA1.  If anything, the kick attack takes a little more time to get used to.   

 

Also, it's not even important for him at this point to attack enemies.  Much like the megadrive titles, it's perfectly fine just to avoid them, especially in early stages.  As the game progresses, the player will understand better how to master the controls and apply new skills to different situations.  

Edited September 1, 2013 by Radrappy

[Vic Boss]

Game looks good. However still don't think the 3DS version is anything too special.

[Lady Soniko]

Lol the grasping at straws in this thread is hilarious.

 

It pisses me off that people have to ask reps how to play a game instead of figuring stuff out themselves, is it really that hard to experiment before saying "WHAT DO? HALP" just shows how shitty the average player has gotten in this day and age with all the hand holding shit in today's games.

[ArtFenix]

Lol the grasping at straws in this thread is hilarious.

 

It pisses me off that people have to ask reps how to play a game instead of figuring stuff out themselves, is it really that hard to experiment before saying "WHAT DO? HALP" just shows how shitty the average player has gotten in this day and age with all the hand holding shit in today's games.

I'm sure he stayed in queue long enough to just want to enjoy the game without having to "figure out" what he should do to enjoy it.

 

Though I do agree that the average player's skill is nothing compared to what it was in the 80-s, 90-s and early 2000.

Edited September 1, 2013 by ArtFenix