Is there right/wrong reason to hate/love a character?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Sorry for long title. Ive been wondering this since I kinda left the SEGA forums. I had a discussion about disliking characters and its been stessful because its people saying "theres no reason for you to dislike this character". I call bullcrap.

 

I think that good and bad reasons to hate or love a character are up for debate because theres no right or wrong reason. People see characters different. For example:

 

-I think Amy in general is annoying girl who wont leave Sonic alone but others think shes awesome and shes the heart of the team.

-I really like Silver and I can relate to his personality but others wish he was scrapped or that only kids who cant think for themselves like him

-I think Blaze is a bad female character because it says that girls are only good if they are tomboys. Others thinks she the greatest.

-I like Big but others think hes a dumbass

 

My point? There is no right or wrong reason to hate or love a character. Its all up to you. You can dislike or love anyone for any reason you want. Should it matter that people like Shadow for his edgy? No. And its wrong to say that only little kids who dont think for themselves like characters like Shadow/Silver or the concepts of Super Sonic. Im a little kid to most of you and I like Super Sonic and Silver but I can explain why I like them in long paragafs and it doesnt say "powers". Or that I am a lier because I dislike Amy.

 

What do you think? Is there a right or wrong reason?

 

[Vertekins]

There's a 'wrong' reason to hate or love a character when that reason is based around false beliefs or massive biases regarding that character.

 

For instance, many fans loathe Sally because "She gets in the way of SonAmy" when she doesn't.

Many fans exult Mephiles for being 'intelligent' when he's really nothing of the sort.

Fans shit on Sonic for being an always in the right shameless goody two-shoes when he really isn't.

Shadow's detractor's lambast him as an "emo" when he's developed past that and really wasn't extremely sullen to the point that he's made out to be in say, SA2.

 

What I've noticed in particular about many fans who outright hate certain characters is that do so in a very misguided way in that their dislike seems centered on exaggerations and falsehoods. Of course many fans have perfectly legitimate reasons for dislike.

[Tara]

Short answer: No.

 

You like what you like and dislike what you dislike, and while it's true that seeing things from another perspective can be beneficial, nine times out of ten, it's not going to change your mind.

 

However, if you don't have a decent level of justification for the character's intrinsic worth or contributive nature, then it's best to not debate their continued existence as a character or their existence as a character in their present form.  For example, say you were simply asked what characters you liked and disliked and why.  If you don't like a character, you just don't like a character, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.  However, if you're being asked which character should be recurring characters or which characters are the most valuable to a series, then yes, you'd better have good reasons or else you're simply hindering the discussion and making it harder for others to relate to your point.

[Yoko/葉子]

It's wrong to mindlessly worship/love any character if they are influencing you to do bad things.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

There's a 'wrong' reason to hate or love a character when that reason is based around false beliefs or massive biases regarding that character.

 

For instance, many fans loathe Sally because "She gets in the way of SonAmy" when she doesn't.

Many fans exult Mephiles for being 'intelligent' when he's really nothing of the sort.

Fans shit on Sonic for being an always in the right shameless goody two-shoes when he really isn't.

Shadow's detractor's lambast him as an "emo" when he's developed past that and really wasn't extremely sullen to the point that he's made out to be in say, SA2.

 

What I've noticed in particular about many fans who outright hate certain characters is that do so in a very misguided way in that their dislike seems centered on exaggerations and falsehoods. Of course many fans have perfectly legitimate reasons for dislike.

 

I understand. If its a reason thats dumb like Sonic being a good two shoes when he isnt. Or the Sally reason.... oh my god.

 

Its when people say "you have NO reason to hate this character" that bothers me. or say "why do you even LIKE this character".

[Nattala]

You can like/dislike whoever you want but people may feel that you dislike a character for dubious reasons and debate it with you.

 

Like what you said about Blaze- I don't see anyway how Blaze could be presented as you say she is. Now that's because everyone sees things differently but I disagree that Blaze says that only tomboys are good. Because in Blaze's debut game, Cream plays a large role in helping Blaze and Cream is very girly.

 

But that's just ME disagreeing with your reasoning. It doesn't mean that you're wrong for feeling the way you do or that I have a problem with you disliking Blaze. It's a hard distinction to tell sometimes in conversations.

[Zaysho]

-I think Blaze is a bad female character because it says that girls are only good if they are tomboys. Others thinks she the greatest.

 

I don't think Blaze is much of a tomboy; she's not particularly girly, but I imagine she's not really into that sort of thing given how she grew up alone and took on the responsibility of protecting her entire world on her own (something she eventually eased up on as seen in the Rush series). She's basically just no nonsense. Which seems fine, since Amy and Rouge are more feminine, but still competent and capable characters that can actually do things too.

 

In general, I sorta think of it as "there are no bad characters, just bad writers," something this franchise is a little too well acquainted with. I think most, if not all, of the cast has plenty of potential, and we've seen brief moments of interesting characterization shine through in various games over the years, but SEGA can't be bothered to actually do anything with any of them. Granted, just because I feel that way, doesn't mean I have to like all characters (I don't care about Big, Cream, Tails, or Amy, but it doesn't mean they can't be useful or given some fun gameplay), I just want to see them be interesting instead of pushed off to the side as a bunch of dumb hangers-on.

 

To answer the topic question... there's no right or wrong reason to like or dislike a character. As with my examples of Big, Cream, Tails and Amy; I don't care about any of them. They haven't done anything interesting in a long while; Big, hardly ever. Cream, she was cool in Advance 2, but then reduced to a cheerleader. Tails and Amy had some nice growth in Adventure, but then Tails eventually became a snarky little jerkass and I got sick of him. Amy hasn't had much of a chance to do more since Adventure, though I do like she's not exclusively always chasing Sonic or has a one-track mind anymore (especially in the comics, in which she actually does stuff, yay!).

 

Though I personally don't care about them, it doesn't mean I want them dropped for good. And people are welcome to argue my points about why I dislike these particular characters (they probably see something I don't). Sonic Team clearly put way more thought into the creation of all these characters than we give them credit for, but unfortunately they've tossed them aside after years of complaints about Sonic's "shitty friends".

Edited January 26, 2014 by Zaysho

[Tara]

You can like/dislike whoever you want but people may feel that you dislike a character for dubious reasons and debate it with you.

 

Like what you said about Blaze- I don't see anyway how Blaze could be presented as you say she is. Now that's because everyone sees things differently but I disagree that Blaze says that only tomboys are good. Because in Blaze's debut game, Cream plays a large role in helping Blaze and Cream is very girly.

 

But that's just ME disagreeing with your reasoning. It doesn't mean that you're wrong for feeling the way you do or that I have a problem with you disliking Blaze. It's a hard distinction to tell sometimes in conversations.

^ Oh yeah, and that too.  I meant to add that you're welcome to like/dislike a character for whatever reasons, but as stated here, no matter what your opinion, it's always open for debate.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

You can like/dislike whoever you want but people may feel that you dislike a character for dubious reasons and debate it with you.

 

Like what you said about Blaze- I don't see anyway how Blaze could be presented as you say she is. Now that's because everyone sees things differently but I disagree that Blaze says that only tomboys are good. Because in Blaze's debut game, Cream plays a large role in helping Blaze and Cream is very girly.

 

But that's just ME disagreeing with your reasoning. It doesn't mean that you're wrong for feeling the way you do or that I have a problem with you disliking Blaze. It's a hard distinction to tell sometimes in conversations.

 

I agree. If you disagree its okay to. I dont like when people tell me that I have no reason to dislike a character just because they feel they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Amy is one that comes to mind.

[Jin.]

Not at all.

 

In fact I hate more then half the stuff everyone here loves. =D

Opinions will always be opinions. It's only wrong when you bring them forth like facts.

You're you, you like things that people might not like, or dislike things that people might like.

Just be yourself. Screw everyone else's opinions.

 

 

However, when on a forum like this, it's always best to give a good reason as to why you hate or love something. People don't have to agree with it, but a reason will always justify your opinions further. And I mean a good one. Like Verte said;

 

There's a 'wrong' reason to hate or love a character when that reason is based around false beliefs or massive biases regarding that character.

 

For instance, many fans loathe Sally because "She gets in the way of SonAmy" when she doesn't.

Many fans exult Mephiles for being 'intelligent' when he's really nothing of the sort.

Fans shit on Sonic for being an always in the right shameless goody two-shoes when he really isn't.

Shadow's detractor's lambast him as an "emo" when he's developed past that and really wasn't extremely sullen to the point that he's made out to be in say, SA2.

 

Just know that people are going to debate your opinions, and that good reasoning is neccesary to defend it.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Technically, no, there's really no such thing as hating or liking a character for the right/wrong reasons. However, don't feel ashamed over how you feel about liking/hating a character for whatever reason. Just make sure you can back up and justify why you feel the way you do over someone you like/hate. Personally, I'm going to consider my view points on characters right, as it's my opinion and there's always going to be a certain level of bias over how I feel. 

 

Sonic is hands down the greatest character in the franchise for a huge list of reasons to me, and while I'll respect if someone disagrees with me, it's still my view point and I'm not really right or wrong for feeling that way. Nothing or no one is going to change my mind about that.

[Kuzu]

I can't say there's a "right" reason for liking a character, because everyone has their own preferences on why they like anything. Like Verte said however, I feel that if dislike is based on biases against that character or to just throw shit at someone for liking a character that you don't, then I feel it is wrong somewhat.

 

If you're going to hate a character, hate them on their own merits and not because they might be getting more screen time than your preferred character. That really irks me.

 

 

I guess the important thing to remember is, no matter your reason for loving or hating a character, its an opinion which means its gonna be open for debate and discussion. Sometimes you can't just convince someone to see things from your perspective, no matter how much you try to explain it to them and in turn, you have to have be able to give up your own biases when looking at something from another person's perspective, even if you don't agree with them.

[Nepenthe]

In a sense, yes, there can be wrong reasons for hating a character, because your reasoning for anything can be based on faulty assumptions. But I think the better lesson here is that basing an opinion on faulty assumptions doesn't actually make an opinion wrong, and I think this is where people get tripped up no matter what side of the fence they're on in a debate. Imagine if someone said they didn't like Sonic because they didn't like the color orange and Sonic was orange. We know Sonic isn't orange, so this is factually wrong. However, the initial statement still holds merit anyway because it's still the expression of an opinion: "I don't like Sonic." 

 

Ultimately, opinions about video games and other arts are based primarily on the feelings and experiences of the audience. The ability to write out paragraphs worth of reasons on the Internet for why your feelings are they way they are about certain things doesn't actually make you right, nor does being inarticulate make you wrong. All this kind of justification does is allow us insight into your opinions; it doesn't establish truth. You're perfectly free to like and dislike anything you want. Your preferences are real, and they're yours and yours alone. So don't worry so much about online debate in that vain, especially over something as trivial as Sonic. Why by assed trying to satisfy the undeserved egos of people who don't agree with you if it's little more than a mental and emotional drain?

[Tara]

Imagine if someone said they didn't like Sonic because they didn't like the color orange and Sonic was orange. We know Sonic isn't orange.

 

This is an official shirt.  Seriously.

 

But yeah, that's a right way of looking at it.  The opinion can't be wrong, but the basis surrounding it can be factually incorrect.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Thank you so much for the responses. Now I can dislike a character and not worry about someone saying that Im telling lies or saying Im a dumbass.

 

The part that gets me is that people will also tell me that Im hating character for shippy reasons. Or tell me the reason I like Archie Amy over Game Amy is because I am a sonally fan. I am a sonally fan and a sonelise fan. But NO, thats not the reason. Yeah you can tell that the fans have me made hate this character even more and its sad.

[Amomynous]

There's a 'wrong' reason to hate or love a character when that reason is based around false beliefs or massive biases regarding that character.

 

For instance, many fans loathe Sally because "She gets in the way of SonAmy" when she doesn't.

Many fans exult Mephiles for being 'intelligent' when he's really nothing of the sort.

Fans shit on Sonic for being an always in the right shameless goody two-shoes when he really isn't.

Shadow's detractor's lambast him as an "emo" when he's developed past that and really wasn't extremely sullen to the point that he's made out to be in say, SA2.

 

What I've noticed in particular about many fans who outright hate certain characters is that do so in a very misguided way in that their dislike seems centered on exaggerations and falsehoods. Of course many fans have perfectly legitimate reasons for dislike.

 

I agree with this, however I do think these attitudes are partly reinforced by another attitude that 'you must have a reason.' ie not excepting 'I don't know' for an answer (I've seriously encountered people like that).

[StaticMania]

There is always a wrong reason, "That Reason" is always something that is taken into any individual person and "that reason" is always seen as Petty...to anyone else, obviously everyone has petty reasons to like and dislike a character, but its never really something to dwell into since its none of your business to do so even if it is "So dang small".

[The Pit of Mystic Cave]

-I think Blaze is a bad female character because it says that girls are only good if they are tomboys. Others thinks she the greatest.

I don't get this logic in the slightest. What part of Blaze's character screams tomboy? Is it because she's the only female character without a soprano voice? Is it because she makes an effort to get in the thick of it to be involved in the plot? Is it because she's not boy crazy? 

 

Help me out here. Blaze is considered by many to be one of the best female characters because she contributes something valuable to the struggle, not because she is a "tomboy". Are you saying girl characters are meant to be cheerleaders on the sidelines and nothing more. 

 

I'm not trying to sound like an ass, and I agree with everything else you had to say, but I would love some elaboration on your reasoning.

[Agie]

I like characters that a lot of others hate.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I don't get this logic in the slightest. What part of Blaze's character screams tomboy? Is it because she's the only female character without a soprano voice? Is it because she makes an effort to get in the thick of it to be involved in the plot? Is it because she's not boy crazy? 

 

Help me out here. Blaze is considered by many to be one of the best female characters because she contributes something valuable to the struggle, not because she is a "tomboy". Are you saying girl characters are meant to be cheerleaders on the sidelines and nothing more. 

 

I'm not trying to sound like an ass, and I agree with everything else you had to say, but I would love some elaboration on your reasoning.

 

Maybe not so much tomboy say but I dont know that many big words in the English language so I couldnt find the right word. The right word would be politcally correct and i should have realized it. Tomboys arent bad when they are not politically correct girls.

 

I just never been a fan of the feminist dream girl type character. As to say that being happy with your femine side is bad for a female character to have. I hate the idea that in order for a girl to be a good character she must not have any traits that make her a girl or embrace such traits while fighting like a man. She simply must fight like a man and how I hate such characters. That's as bad as saying a girl is only good when she is cute and femme.

 

So to answer the Blaze question that is why I really dont like this character. Because shes a feminist dream girl and plus they made her even more of a model female by giving her a mature/sexy new voice. I mean yeah we had Amy who was genki girl who followed Sonic around and wont leave him alone and doesnt do much. Then we had Cream, another genki girl who was only there to be cute and not do anything. And then we had Rouge where everyone complains about her looks even though she can kick butt to and is competent dispite her boobs. But hey, being content with your female is horrible! So Blaze comes along.... yeah. She becomes popular because shes competent.... but fans act like we have never had a competent female before her. (Sally, Rouge yeah I said Sally because SatAM and Spinball so she counts)

 

But because the others were girly... it = to not competant. So yeah for the most part Blaze was created with males in mind because a girl embracing being girl in a shounen franchise?! Never! So thats my rant on this character.

 

Im sorry to ruin my own thread :*(

[lucidshine]

I disagree with you. Both Amy and Cream have shown that they DO do things, in their game appearances. To complete the games that those characters 100%, you're forced to play as those characters, and thus you get a sense of how much they can really kick butt. 

I can sort of agree with you on Rouge. She's a great character and is very strong, but unfortunately people make jokes constantly about her looks, even going so far as to call her a whore. I always found that to be wrong. Just because Rouge has bigger boobs than the other female characters, she's a whore. Still, throughout the series you see how competent and content with herself she really is. She's a great character, and despite the criticism of her appearance (which is stupid), is probably my favourite female Sonic character because of how well she's been done.

Though I think Amy, Rouge, Cream, and Blaze are all equally popular, equally competent, and equally content with their femininity. They're all very different characters, but each one is great.

On the subject of the topic, no, there is no right or wrong reason to hate or love a character. If you dislike them, you dislike them. If you love them, you love them. It's your opinion and people need to respect that.

However if the character is depicted as being a certain race, sexuality, etc, and you hate them because of that, well...

[Sonicstitch]

I would say there is one wrong reason to hate a character?
And that is if you hate them based on wrong information.  
If you do not like Tails because you do not like  Sontails.
That is wrong. I  like Tails but I do not like  Sontails.
 Sontails is not canon.

[Tara]

Maybe not so much tomboy say but I dont know that many big words in the English language so I couldnt find the right word. The right word would be politcally correct and i should have realized it. Tomboys arent bad when they are not politically correct girls.

 

I just never been a fan of the feminist dream girl type character. As to say that being happy with your femine side is bad for a female character to have. I hate the idea that in order for a girl to be a good character she must not have any traits that make her a girl or embrace such traits while fighting like a man. She simply must fight like a man and how I hate such characters. That's as bad as saying a girl is only good when she is cute and femme.

 

So to answer the Blaze question that is why I really dont like this character. Because shes a feminist dream girl and plus they made her even more of a model female by giving her a mature/sexy new voice. I mean yeah we had Amy who was genki girl who followed Sonic around and wont leave him alone and doesnt do much. Then we had Cream, another genki girl who was only there to be cute and not do anything. And then we had Rouge where everyone complains about her looks even though she can kick butt to and is competent dispite her boobs. But hey, being content with your female is horrible! So Blaze comes along.... yeah. She becomes popular because shes competent.... but fans act like we have never had a competent female before her. (Sally, Rouge yeah I said Sally because SatAM and Spinball so she counts)

 

But because the others were girly... it = to not competant. So yeah for the most part Blaze was created with males in mind because a girl embracing being girl in a shounen franchise?! Never! So thats my rant on this character.

 

Im sorry to ruin my own thread :*(

As a feminist, I have to say that your perception is entirely wrong about what a "feminist dream girl" is.  A feminist's dream is that women should be allowed to express themselves in anyway they want without their gender being taken into account.  This means they should be allowed to like things which are usually targeted towards men if they want, or things targeted at women if they want, or both, and the only thing that will matter is what they contribute to it.  This further extends to imply that feminism isn't about removing femininity, but preserving it.  Many people, to include women, translate the word "feminine" to mean "bad," and that's just something that has to stop.  But Blaze is not a problem in that regard.

 

Blaze is a strong female character, but she hasn't abandoned her femininity in the slightest.  Look at her clothes.  She wears a rather elegant purple dress with white tights and high heels.  High heels aren't exactly known for being un-feminine, nor are they exactly known for being the best shoes for running in.  Not to mention, either she's heavily stylized or she wears pretty thick eyeliner and mascara.  In terms of personality, I'd say she's pretty feminine as well.  She reacts to things as you'd realistically expect a female that has been trained to fight would react.

 

Further, giving her a mature-sounding voice (and I don't know where the "sexy" comes from as that's just a matter of opinion, but I'll lay off that for now) does not make her un-feminine, either.  There are many levels of femininity, and that includes mature females who are into more serious subjects as well as girls who enjoy pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows and other stereotypical things like that.  You're acting like there can only be one type of "feminine" or that any woman who has a different set of priorities has abandoned some arbitrary definition of the word that they must stick to, which is not the case.

 

I applaud that you find femininity something to be embraced rather than shunned, but you're not doing the cause justice here when you're bashing a character with ignorance to the subject or for being different than the stereotypical female character.

 

Blaze's character is popular not because she's abandoned her femininity; quite the opposite, in fact.  She's a great character because she's embraced her own unique kind of femininity, while being a worthwhile contribution to the plot.  With the exception of SA1, loosely in SA2, and Heroes, Amy's character has been very lacking in terms of overall contribution to the series.  I argue she's still a good character for the same reasons as Blaze, but she's not been given time to explore those strengths.  Cream, on the other hand, has had little to no development outside of Advance 2 and 3 and Sonic Heroes.  Even then, in all those games, she was never vital to the narrative.  She always kept her distance from the plot, as if to say, "Hey, uh, you know, this a boy's show... don't want those female characters to be too important lol."  That, and in my opinion, she's kind of annoying because she's such a blatant caricature of stereotypical little girls that it's almost offensive but not really.

 

I'll agree with you that the complaints targeted at Rouge due to her obvious features are misogynistic and bullshit.  But I think her character is problematic because she is heavily unexplored.  We never get to understand her on a personal level, whereas Blaze has only been in two games and we've seen her go through radical transformations and we've seen exactly how her mind works.

 

To conclude, Blaze is not anti-feminine.  She embraces her own form of femininity, which is great.  She does things for herself, not due to some kind of social stigma of gender division.  Finally, she has an integral part in her own stories, which can't be said for most of the other female characters.  It has nothing to do with fighting as there are many ways to contribute to a story.

 

Also, I just want to throw out there that although I know this is not where it originates, the term "politically correct" these days is just a term that right-wing extremists throw out there to hinder any sort of development in equality or requests for better representation for certain groups and it's silly.  It has nothing do with politics, and everything to do with simply being a decent person.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Im not trying to hinder anything... I just dont like this character. I understand where your coming from.

[Tara]

You're welcome to not like her.  It's just that the reasons you've listed are sort of ill-conceived. XP