Is there Room Enough for Two?

[RK64]

Should be noted that "a REAL story" is not something anyone complained about outside dedicated Sonic communities

 

much like how, amusingly enough, "it has PLOT!!!" isn't being seen as a holy grail regarding Boom outside pretty much... here.

 

EDIT: By which I mean that outside the bosses and short amount of content, Generations already was the perfect game.

 

But with an a game like Generations, they had so many opportunity to poke some fun at itself and more or less be a buddy traveling tale with the Modern/Classic Sonic and Tails talking to their past/future selves about the adventures they went on. Common, who would not find it funny if they made fun of Sonic 06 or Unleashed (at least Eggman could of made a comment during the Egg Dragoon fight about Sonic not being a werehog or something....).

 

Generations wasn't a perfect game though, as much as I love it, it really could of been so much better. You have this massive series filled with colorful zones and locations...yet you pick 2 Hill Zones and 3 City Zones for your anniversary game? Why not have some verity with the locations (like Crazy Gadget or Final Rush for SA2 or Lost World or Emerald Coast for SA1?) or at the very least bouns acts that reference past zones . I don't know, I love Sonic Generations but when I look back on it...it really could of been a better game even though it already is a great one.

[Tani Coyote]

Competition tends to produce the best results, whereas monopolies tend to cause you to slack. If Sonic Team's necks are regularly on the line, I think they'll get whipped into shape really darn fast.

If Boom does well, SEGA needs to give Sonic Team an ultimatum: you do well, or you're all fired.

Even short dev times mean nothing - Insomniac made the first three Ratchet games in rapid succession one after the other and they're all high quality. Money can't be much of an issue either since Sonic is really the only homegrown SEGA brand that hasn't died. Sonic Team suffers from a serious lack of motivation more than anything else, I think. Fortunately the risk of being let go tends to fix that issue really quick.

[Mauro Fonseca]

You're giving complaints as a fan, is what I'm saying, though.

 

The fact there's 9 levels that work fine but happen to be disappointing on a fanservice level is not a fault, on a critical reception level.

 

The fact there's 7 bosses of varying quality of which the last one is utterly dreadful is.

[Blacklightning]

My concerns are less that the two can coexist (honestly, there shouldn't be any doubt about that), and more the fact that it creates a divide in fanbases and consumers in a franchise that's already positively fucking shattered as a result of divides just like these. I just did a quick count of the individual canons in the series off the top of my head... including Boom now, we're up to at least seven different "sub series"s (mind you, I didn't count the Sonic X shows and comics seperately, and as far as comics go I could only remember Archie and Fleetway), and even on the offchance that Boom turns out to be a godsend all this really accomplishes is confusing consumers and further distorting the very identity of the franchise, which they were still having huge problems with even before that.

 

And most of all it pains me to think that above all else, Sega of Japan has really nobody to blame but themselves for this. I wish they would just get their shit together, find an approach that works and stick with it for once. I wish they weren't so damned lazy and half-hearted about everything they do that fans have long since had to settle for "well, at least it's not shit" whenever a new game comes out. I wish they'd realize the absolutely ridiculous hypocrisy of aiming to do best in a western market and simultaneously refusing to acknowledge what they as a collective have to say, at best doing one little thing at a time to maintain a very basic facade of it and usually completely missing the point in the process. And I wish that instead of basically handing the franchise to people overseas with few strings attached, they'd just fucking communicate better with them when it comes to creating their own games so they have some fucking semblance of an idea what these people expect from them.

 

It's not really fair to me that this has to be a choice between two radically different sects of a franchise, when the best of Boom could so fucking easily be integrated into standard game canon and mechanics and not a single fucking rational complaint could be made about it.

[Tani Coyote]

The good news is only three of the canons remain relevant from a marketing perspective: SEGA Sonic, Sonic Boom, and Archie. However, that only makes a difference for new customers; as you mention, the old fanbase remains divided because each of us grew up with a different continuity. SatAM is 20 years old and yet it still has an incredibly strong fanbase, as does Fleetway.

I think SEGA's ultimately decided it wants to attract new customers rather than appeal to its old, however, so I don't think division is one of their concerns.

[frokenok3]

Personally it feels so natural to me. Like i am actually questioning why SEGA didnt do this earlier. The fanbase is so divided on what they want from a Sonic game that having more than 1 universe and style is really making things a little easier imo. Some people like exploring and multiple chars. Other prefer pure speed. It seems logical to me ad that way they can plz more and try to get new crowd in as well.

 

I am certain they can co-exist just fine.

 

My 2 bits

[JaidynReiman]

Personally it feels so natural to me. Like i am actually questioning why SEGA didnt do this earlier. The fanbase is so divided on what they want from a Sonic game that having more than 1 universe and style is really making things a little easier imo. Some people like exploring and multiple chars. Other prefer pure speed. It seems logical to me ad that way they can plz more and try to get new crowd in as well.

 

I am certain they can co-exist just fine.

 

My 2 bits

They can still have multiple characters in the main games with a focus on speed. And I'm hoping that this extension is making them realize that Sonic has always had allies ever since Sonic 2 and they've always been playable as separate additions. Up until very recent games, the only games that Sonic has been the only playable character were Sonic 1, Sonic CD, and Sonic 3D (counting the main console games; some of the early Game Gear games only had Sonic as playable but Tails was added later).

 

In fact, until Sonic Unleashed, there were multiple playable characters in every main Sonic game and even most of the handhelds. The reason why a lot of people want multiple characters? Because they've always been here.

 

The main problem is that, in the jump to 3D they made the mistake of making the alternate playable characters play completely differently from Sonic. The original games didn't do this; they played almost the same as Sonic with some unique abilities. They should bring back this aspect in future 3D games.

 

Any 2D games with multiple playable characters have pretty much always done this; the Sonic Advance games, Sonic Rush games, and Sonic Rivals games all have multiple playable characters and all of the characters are mostly the same with a few unique abilities. The only 3D game I can think of that does this is Sonic and the Black Knight.

 

EDIT: I suppose you can argue Sonic Heroes, but in that one you're playing as three characters at once. Still, each team plays mostly the same with only a couple of unique abilities; Team Sonic and Team Dark literally ARE both identical, though, with the sole exception of the Team Attacks or whatever they are called.

[frokenok3]

I can agree! Dont get me wrong i like multiple chars and in general i'd say that i am really pleased with what they gave so far. In the fanbase i am probably on the easy to plz guys. I dont know if its my nature or something but while i dont complain much or at all i'd say...in the end i want other stuff as well and i am thinking what it'd be if i had that in my Sonic game.

So thats why when i heard about it, i immediately thought this is awesome cause now i can get the best from both worlds.

I enjoy playing Sonic games that dont go deep into the story or stuff but i'd like to see the opposite. I dont like exploration that much but sometimes i'd like to be able to actually go and see whats there and the list goes on...

So if anything for me this is like the best case scenario. xD I am sure not everyone is gonna feel that way & like you said why not do this with the main series. Though in the end if that is what it takes to get something else then i will grab it.

 

Of course all these are just theories etc. Maybe the next SEGA Sonic game will have multple characters, maybe it will have more story into it. 

 

If i learned something through the 20 years that i am with Sonic is that ST dont really like to play it "safe" or keep core stuff. They always try something else, something different. Not sure if this is the right way to say it but i feel like they try too hard sometimes when they dont need to.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

As it's already been answered as to "can they co-exist," I suppose all I've left to discuss with is "will they." Short answer yes. Long answer yesssss. At least, as long as Boom lasts.

 

Boom is, in a sense, too big to truly fail by this point. People already bought Sonic things, this is just more incentive to. Whether or not the media aspect fails doesn't really affect the situation too badly, as it really only has room to go up. People are talking about and are interested in a Sonic series again. That's a nice shot in the arm after Lost World failed to make a good impression. I don't think Sega honestly cares whether Boom lives or dies once the show's concluded and contracts are fulfilled; it's just a matter of jump-starting brand interest for the short term. The minor instances of brand-confusion this causes (Boom or Sega Sonic?) are a sort of necessary evil.

 

Sega Sonic is also just not going anywhere. I can't imagine that a series that releases multiple games a year in various states of continuity would suddenly cease to do so because one is more popular than the other. Money is money, and big corporations want more where they can get it. No Sega I know would give up on playing to people's nostalgia. Older always beats out younger in a long-running franchise unless you're a comic book; not because of quality or anything, but because there will always be a magic to the franchises roots that brought people to begin with and will continue to once the new entry has gone. Sherlock BBC is an excellent and popular series, but it has no chance of ousting the original Great Detective even with all the most awful slash fan-fiction in the world. In a similar way, Sega Sonic has a leg up on Boom no matter how great Boom is. That same thing that enchanted people about Sonic to begin with will still be there once Boom's been cancelled, and it will be sooner or later.

 

I mean, I know Sega can be incompetent, but give them a little slack here. They've kept this series up for twenty years, there must be something in it that keeps people coming back.

 

/awful disconbobulated tired rant over

[Sapphire]

It's extremely hard to say what they're going to do. I want to say that both will stay, as many franchises do this and do it nicely. And I'm very excited to see the Sonic franchise branch out into different continuities. I mean, no one seems to have a problem with the Archie universe being totally separate from the games. Why can't Boom do the same? One thing that has me convinced is that polygon.com article where it claims Iizuka confirmed that the Boom TV series or game will NOT be brought to Japan. I can't see Sega wanting to phase Sonic out of Japan all together. (http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/6/5387184/why-sega-handed-sonic-over-to-western-studios-and-gave-him-a-scarf)

 

But I think I want to believe that so badly because I just don't want to see Sonic Team-Sonic go. I'm extremely worried that Sega was just putting up a shield from the flames of old fans by saying that old Sonic will still exist and still go strong. Because when it comes down to it, Sega can do whatever the hell they want no matter how we feel about it.

[Char]

Generally I'm not much of an optimist, and that is not an exception here.

 

While I haven't been around to see how the other games' unveilings have been, the reaction to this whole thing was pretty incredible, with thousands of posts across different sites in the same day.

 

So, unless the interest suddenly dies out, or something goes awry, Boom is probably going to sell well. If does sell well, then I do believe like some others that it will affect the balance of whether we get to keep one or both Sonics in some way.

 

If it sells well but it doesn't get well received, then my concern is that SEGA will blind themselves with money, like they probably do now, and carry on with it, only to be surprised when the next endeavour doesn't pay off well. Given how they have shown to handle themselves, this is what I would put my coins in today, and in that case I have no idea what the future holds, specially if the current status quo is broken and we are left only with Boom Sonic. Although it will be pretty funny tragic if they change characters and or story and end up in the same place.

 

In the end, the way I think about it, it will take a few years for us to finally see what effect Boom will have over the franchise as it is now, since it would be necesary to measure how well the current games and the next ones do, unless they decide to go completely overt about it if Boom is found to perform well. But as Nepenthe they really are unpredictable, so who knows.

 

 

Other than that, I don't really think Boom will serve to enhance Sonic Team's games one way or the other. I would like to think they are people who take pride in what they do, and that they would like to make something that is good, instead of just working without really making accomplishments. If that is the case, I would think they would have seen that they were making mistakes and at least attempted to correct them.

 

Even if they are not as I described, I would think somebody higher up would realize that something was not being done right, and attempted to make changes to achieve something different.

 

But nothing of the sort happened (that I know of, anyway), and things kept being the usual way. They can't possibly not have known they weren't doing stuff right, so why not change something somewhere along the way to now instead of waiting for this? Because of this, I'm inclined to think that they are just unable to, and that this won't really change anything.

 

Even under the theory that they were overworked, if that was what was expected of them then, why would something different be expected now? The new work that is being done is money on top of what was being paid before afterall.

 

I obviously would like to have superb games like anybody else, and even if I can't really see myself happy with what Boom brings, I'd be happy for those that can, and happy this is a lot of movement on SEGA's part and is generating a lot of movement as a result on our side, but I just don't see much good on the way for Modern Sonic other than that he will still be there one way or another just for reasons.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Guys, remember that the people working on Sonic Boom the very day it was announce had to stress that it wasn't going to replace SEGA Sonic. I don't know about you guys, but that tells me that they know they would piss off a lot of people if they did, otherwise what would be the point in saying that? Especially given the kind of vocal shockwaves the fandom can send through the internet, I think they'll want to be cautious.

 

There are plenty of other franchises that have different continuities of the same verse, such as X-Men, Spider-man, Batman, Superman, Teen Titans, hell even video games such as Megaman with it's main series and it's Battle Network sub-series, or Mario and it's RPGS differing from the mainstream titles.

 

I think we're letting our fears get the better of us, because as of right now I'm not expecting Sonic Boom to cannibalize the SEGA Sonic continuity. Granted, it's too soon to say; maybe I'm putting too much power in our voices over this, and things might change for who knows what, but I'm not expecting the worst at the moment.

 

EDIT - Also, the Metroid franchise. Forgot to add that one.

[Voyant]

Either way really I don't care who handles Sonic as long as they can deliver a quality AAA experience with tons of heart while still remembering the 3 core aspects of Sonic's base gameplay (Speed, Platforming, and Exploration).

 

I haven't felt anything with true heart from Sonic Team since Unleashed. I miss that energy and that passion that development team had during that time...they really wanted to get the ball rolling and they kept very close with us at the time.

 

But I think with Unleash's failure thanks predominately to the Werehog, everyone at the team took a 44. Magnum round to the chest. It pains me to think about what kind of Sonic game we could have had if half of the resources didn't go to an alternate gameplay style that never needed to be there. We would have totally been in a different potion than the one we are in now honestly...its really sad to see such an ambitious director go to squareenix after the games failure.

 

At this point what ever happens happens, the things that kept me tied to SEGASonic personally have not been present for a long time now. If a new universe can give me that same feeling again and provide a quality gaming experience then ultimately I not going to care for much of Sonic Team at all.

 

I really hope Boom works out great so that Sonic Team can get a nice kick in the ass and starting producing stuff. What we had to put up with since the Shadow the Hedgehog game all the way up to Sonic 4 episode 2. Sonic fans didn't deserve to go through such an emotional rollcoaster ride like that with the company...they should be damn lucky they have such a dedicated fanbase. Its time for Sonic Team to prove to us why they are worth keeping around.

 

Of course this all depends on how Boom turns out...so we will see. If it fails for any reason then shit I guess we are back at square one in a worse situation and with a development team at SEGA that still hasn't trully proven them selves truly competent compared to other AAA developers.

 

And no...safe games like Sonic Colors (what that game again? *insert Nepenthe joke*), Sonic Generations, (which is the epitome of Safe), and Sonic Lost World (That still didn't work out really) are not good enough for me to feel like they aren't replaceable..

[Octarine]

I was going to suggest that if Boom's a big enough deal Sonic Team might go full retro revival and start making outright 16-bit games again, at least on the side, but then I remembered that SEGA kind of have a different team to handle that stuff too. Oops.

 

EDIT - Also, the Metroid franchise. Forgot to add that one.

 

Metroid doesn't really have anything like Boom. The Prime games are more like the Rush or Storybook series are for Sonic, I guess; they were intended to fit in with the main games. Yoshio Sakamoto doesn't seem to like them, but I don't think he's ever actually tried to officially write them off and I'm not sure he'd have the authority to.

 

shouldn't even have the authority to bring iwata coffee grumble grumble

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Metroid doesn't really have anything like Boom. The Prime games are more like the Rush or Storybook series are for Sonic, I guess; they were intended to fit in with the main games. Yoshio Sakamoto doesn't seem to like them, but I don't think he's ever actually tried to officially write them off and I'm not sure he'd have the authority to.

 

shouldn't even have the authority to bring iwata coffee grumble grumble

Well I was kind of using it as an example of a Japanese series being outsourced to the west. Not my best example, but I just wanted to make that connection at least.

[Kat]

I think the Mega Man/X comparison is OK on gameplay level, but both series are clearly connected to and separated from each other story-wise. Also, X and Mega Man are not the same guy. This isn't entirely made clear with BoomSonic in regards to SegaSonic, and while fans will have it easy to distinguish them both, the general public probably won't.

 

Even if Boom is planned to be a one time spin-off, I can easily imagine Sega becoming blinded by success if the game turns out to be critically acclaimed. People and fans will be all too eager to claim that only western Sonic with a scarf can deliver and Sega will most likely consider a sequel. If the next SegaSonic game turns out to be mediocre again, which sadly is somewhat likely, they might take a break from Sonic for a while and see how a Boom sequel turns out.

 

I think the first Sonic Boom game will have it really easy and a lot of flaws are going to be overlooked, because they made it clear from the beginning that it's not going to be the "regular" kind of Sonic game. Everyone will give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to gameplay mechanics that would possibly never be considered "Sonic-like" and acceptable in a Sonic the Hedgehog game. There'll be a lot of "that's how it's done"'s, when they've actually not made a Sonic game by current (albeit vague) definitions.

 

Then, when the Boom sequel doesn't turn out as well, because everyone now has expectations, SegaSonic will make his big return, which will probably work out fine no matter the quality of the game. And then we're back to status quo (before Sonic Boom).

[JaidynReiman]

Guys, remember that the people working on Sonic Boom the very day it was announce had to stress that it wasn't going to replace SEGA Sonic. I don't know about you guys, but that tells me that they know they would piss off a lot of people if they did, otherwise what would be the point in saying that? Especially given the kind of vocal shockwaves the fandom can send through the internet, I think they'll want to be cautious.

 

There are plenty of other franchises that have different continuities of the same verse, such as X-Men, Spider-man, Batman, Superman, Teen Titans, hell even video games such as Megaman with it's main series and it's Battle Network sub-series, or Mario and it's RPGS differing from the mainstream titles.

 

I think we're letting our fears get the better of us, because as of right now I'm not expecting Sonic Boom to cannibalize the SEGA Sonic continuity. Granted, it's too soon to say; maybe I'm putting too much power in our voices over this, and things might change for who knows what, but I'm not expecting the worst at the moment.

 

EDIT - Also, the Metroid franchise. Forgot to add that one.

THANK YOU for not using "Megaman X" as an example. I've seen several people trying to compare Sonic Boom to Megaman X, which of course is a sequel series set about 50-100 years after the Megaman series, as well as every other Megaman series that's not Battle Network/Starforce (just given a number of more years after  each subsequent series). The Battle Network/Starforce series' are the actual spinoff alternate continuity of Megaman.

 

DC and Marvel in general have different alternate franchises for pretty much everything. Any movie, cartoon, or game series is always alien from the comics and each other (sometimes a movie/cartoon/game is connected, but that's rare). Even the comics have alternate series' within them, such as Ultimate Marvel and Marvel Zombies (just the notion of this one kinda creeps me out tbh...)

 

Plus Sonic has Archie as a separate canon, too, and Archie I think generally consider SatAM canon, too? Not sure.

 

Still, the only example I can think of where a video game series has alternate canons is Mega Man's main timeline and the AU of Battle Network.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

THANK YOU for not using "Megaman X" as an example. I've seen several people trying to compare Sonic Boom to Megaman X, which of course is a sequel series set about 50-100 years after the Megaman series, as well as every other Megaman series that's not Battle Network/Starforce (just given a number of more years after  each subsequent series). The Battle Network/Starforce series' are the actual spinoff alternate continuity of Megaman.

Well, I've made that difference in the Figured I'd spread it more.

[Faseeh]

Felt this was related. Honestly I'd be totally fine if this is how they implement it! Would make for nice cross universe adventures!

 

[Sami]

If the show is a success, Sonic Boom will absolutely be seeing another game regardless of the sales of the first. After Lost World, I think SEGA's realized that they can't depend on the Wii U to bring in the revenue they're looking for, so I'm sure BRB will get another crack at it on some more popular platforms a few years down the line.

Sonic Team is definitely working on something right now, too. The noticeable absence of Unleashed and Generations' staff teams on Lost World's credits means that Sonic Team A's been working on something since Generations. Late 2011 - with that much time in development, you can bet Sonic Team's next big game will get an enormous marketing push, especially if they push it as a 25th Anniversary celebration.

Both SEGASonic and Sonic Boom will continue exist concurrently for at least another two years, and if one proves more popular they'll probably adapt accordingly.

I can't imagine them ditching SEGASonic. It's been the face of their entire company for almost 25 years, to say nothing of Sonic Team Japan's motivation to not be made a joke out of by a fresh new American team without a single game to their collective name.

I just can't imagine it happening.

[Solkia]

I don't even see why we even need 2. It's not like there was consistency to begin with.

 

Was it so fucking hard to make multiple playable characters that they both had to completely revamp everything from character designs to settings, as well as fucking outsource it in order for it to happen? Like, is Sonic Team just so shitty that a Sonic game has to be created by an entirely fucking different team for a game to be more fleshed out?

 

I don't get why Sonic the Scarfhog and his gang of Bandaged Anthros had to even be a thing for there to be a cartoon or a good* game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I still have my salt out.

[Kat]

If the show is a success, Sonic Boom will absolutely be seeing another game regardless of the sales of the first. After Lost World, I think SEGA's realized that they can't depend on the Wii U to bring in the revenue they're looking for, so I'm sure BRB will get another crack at it on some more popular platforms a few years down the line.

Actually, if the contract with nintendo is a timed exclusive, I can imagine the game being released on other platforms, too, at some point. It's based on Cryengine after all.

[Tani Coyote]

While they denied it being a reboot/takeover, that's understandable due to the riots it would cause. There's a lot of rancor among the fanbase even WITHOUT it being that. It would very likely impact the game's sales if they mentioned it was meant to be a reboot, simply due to the fact loads of people would probably refrain from buying it as that would financially support the reboot. If fans were willing to boycott games for using 4Kids voices, imagine what else they'll boycott for!

Never mind reboots tend to flop a lot, and so calling it that's a bad idea. I think they really want to see how it sells before making any decision or announcement like that.

If successful, they can say it's a reboot and go with that. If not, they can claim it was just a spinoff. It's win-win.

Sure going full reboot would be going back on what they said but... what company doesn't do that at some point?

 

Felt this was related. Honestly I'd be totally fine if this is how they implement it! Would make for nice cross universe adventures!

Hahaha, actually, while sleeping I began to think that Sonic Boom could be an alternate timeline caused by Generations' shenanigans. So this is a beautifully coincidental image to stumble across.

[Sami]

I don't even see why we even need 2. It's not like there was consistency to begin with.

Was it so fucking hard to make multiple playable characters that they both had to completely revamp everything from character designs to settings, as well as fucking outsource it in order for it to happen? Like, is Sonic Team just so shitty that a Sonic game has to be created by an entirely fucking different team for a game to be more fleshed out?

I don't get why Sonic the Scarfhog and his gang of Bandaged Anthros had to even be a thing for there to be a cartoon or a good* game.

*I still have my salt out.

I don't entirely disagree, actually. I don't think the change was an entirely necessary one, and BRB didn't need an entirely new universe to work with to do the things they're doing.

That being said though, it's just part of SEGA's new push, and you can't deny it's working. Jokes or not, the big redesigns and announcement of a new universe has gotten people's attention, and shows that SEGA's willing to do new things with the franchise.

And yeah honestly I think Sonic Team is just that shitty*. Another team humiliating them and doing better things with Sonic could be just the motivation they need to step the fuck up and stop twiddling their thumbs.

*I loved Colors and Gens but I'm tired of having to dismiss higher expectations as unrealistic - they're just not a good developer. :/

[Solkia]

To me, this isn't really even about the designs, it's about the facts that lie behind it.

 

All these redesigns and shit are doing is the same thing every fucking Sonic game since Heroes has tried to do: Bring a "Fresh" and "exciting" new experience to the franchise, when usually it just ends up as tangential bullshit from something previously that could have been built upon.

 

And when they decided to do that they chose to do it with the most bottom-of-the-barrel horseshit bland mechanics we call the boost games.

 

They've had all these good ideas and just fucking gave up on them before they even did anything with them. I wouldn't be surprised if this game takes off well and they mistake it as a sign that they should take some more shitty risks. Get ready for the next game to be more of the same old goddamn horseshit you know and love, regardless of how well this does.