Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[horridus]

Heh. I think somebody mentioned that both times before the Stadium went kablooey. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So in the span of the last few weeks,  Penders had spoken more on legal matters than the his actual upcoming comic. 

I wondered where he gets most of his funds for this Lara-Su series,  but now  I'm beginning to wonder if suing for royalties is that ol' part time of Penders' that pays the bills these days.

Certainly would explain why he always makes a big cryptic deal out of these sorry of things and why there's been such a drought of actual content from the comic. 

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

200 pages again!

Also?

I think he's working on another page...

[biznizz]

You know... Looking at Shaddy's current username... Yeah, can't but think of Undertale and comparing it to Penders and the LSC.

Undertale is an independant RPG in following greatly in the style of a Nintendo property, MOTHER/Earthbound. It was made by a small-ish team, led by Toby Fox, using a public-accessable game creation software. To secure funding for the project, the team took to Kickstarter and, through the use of a promising demo and other rewards, made more than 10X their goal. It was finally released in September 2015, after about 3 years in development. Despite, or in part BECAUSE of, the similarities to MOTHER/Earthbound and other similar RPG's of its type, it was critically lauded and is currently avaliable on a very public game community site at a very reasonable cost. And after the game was released, a focus was made to create merchandise after the fact.

 

The Lara-Su Chronicles is an "independant" franchise, largely focused on producing digital/trade GCN's based on characters previously owned by SEGA for the American Sonic the Hedgehog comics. It's largely spearheaded by Ken Penders, who used for write for said comic and thus created said characters and related mythos, with a few other people creating art assets. To get the project started, Penders tried to claim copyright on his characters, which led to a lawsuit which directly severed his IP's from anything to do with the Sonic franchise (not that it's stopped Penders from not being lazy about things coughK'noxcough). Penders, and several of his more devout fans, believe that Kickstarter and Patreon are basically e-begging, and do not use it to secure funding for the project. Rather, the LSC seems to be funded by Penders selling back issues of StH and out of pocket with his own family's (i.e. lawyer wife's) money. It has NOT been released despite numerous projects over the course of nearly 6 years. Despite, and EXACTLY BECAUSE of, Penders refusing to change anything in his mythos that was tied to the comic, the project is mostly anticipated by people merely because they wish to see it bomb. The comic is promised to largely be digital, accessable on a homebrewed app, or otherwise to be bought in trade. The whole project, from even before page 1, was an attempted merchandise-driven affair, with $10 (now $8) Acorn Kingdom patches to ugly $20 iPhone cases.

 

Hell, even the increasingly delayed fan-made MOTHER 4 still has more kind will shown towards it, and that project is outright trying to emulate said Nintendo property. Just goes to show how the toxicity of the main creator can utterly taint a whole project, huh.

Edited November 2, 2015 by biznizz

[Maeson]

There's also the feeling that the guys that did Undertale wanted to create something, while penders wanted something to be created... But doesn't seem to want to put effort or work for it, unlike anyone trying to push forward a project they want to see done. 

Also, maybe i'm being a dick here; but... I really don't see why announce he's going to modify a page to make it better.

...I mean, maybe I don't understand it, but I always thought that's what you're supposed to do... Unless you're a total hack, of course.

It's like if i'm a translator and I say "Hey, i've been proofreading my translation because it had typos and some parts didn't make sense". 

It's expected that you try your best most of the time. 

Of course... Now that I think about it, maybe what it's supposed to be normal for most, is special for Penders, seeing that, as far as we know, there are only two pages. Maybe a third one would be big news then?

Besides that... Happy 200 page...again! This time I can celebrate too instead of lurking in silence with a party hat in the shadows.

For another 200 pages with 3/3 Phone Cases unsold!

Edited November 2, 2015 by Maeson

[King Scoopa Koopa]

"Dear Twitterverse: Today, I wrote a letter on a page of my comic book. It came out so well that I decided to write another letter next to it. How was your day?"

[Salamander]

Hell, even the increasingly delayed fan-made MOTHER 4 still has more kind will shown towards it, and that project is outright trying to emulate said Nintendo property. Just goes to show how the toxicity of the main creator can utterly taint a whole project, huh.

Funny how Penders's work feels a lot more like theft despite the fact that he has the legal rights to his property and the Mother 4 team don't - but of course, only one of these projects is intended to make money.

There's also the feeling that the guys that did Undertale wanted to create something, while penders wanted something to be created... But doesn't seem to want to put effort or work for it, unlike anyone trying to push forward a project they want to see done.

I think that's very insightful.  Penders doesn't seem very enthusiastic about making TLSC happen, but he's sure trying to make money off it long before publishing anything.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

You know... Looking at Shaddy's current username... Yeah, can't but think of Undertale and comparing it to Penders and the LSC.

Undertale is an independant RPG in following greatly in the style of a Nintendo property, MOTHER/Earthbound. It was made by a small-ish team, led by Toby Fox, using a public-accessable game creation software. To secure funding for the project, the team took to Kickstarter and, through the use of a promising demo and other rewards, made more than 10X their goal. It was finally released in September 2015, after about 3 years in development. Despite, or in part BECAUSE of, the similarities to MOTHER/Earthbound and other similar RPG's of its type, it was critically lauded and is currently avaliable on a very public game community site at a very reasonable cost. And after the game was released, a focus was made to create merchandise after the fact.

Well yeah, except Undertale was inspired by Earthbound, it's not just ripping it off because Toby Fox didn't get to make Earthbound into a Star Trek fanfic. More importantly, he's not to my knowledge a total ass to people on twitter and actually works to finish the things he creates instead of reassuring people he's doing it talking about how great it is instead of just doing it.

 

Redundancy

 

 

EDIT: I thought of another Undertale connection, being that half of this is loosely-related self-insert fanfiction that only exists to waste time. Of course the difference here is Alphys and Mettaton are likeable, and also still aren't giant assholes on twitter

Edited November 4, 2015 by Shaddy-Joestar-Dreemurr

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So,  am the only one who'd love to see Penders actually try and kickstart-fund the Lara-Su Chronicles? 

Maybe then we'd  finally get to see that supposed majority of fans he claims to have, in action. 

Just make sure to have your drink and snacks ready for the show in that case. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon

[Zaysho]

This is, like, the third time we've hit 200 pages.

We've been through a crash and an upgrade and nothing has changed in that time. Lots of potshots at either Flynn, Archie, or SEGA, typical shit stirring/grandstanding, some legal nonsense thrown in, and still no book. Incredible.

So,  am the only one who'd love to see Penders actually try and kickstart-fund the Lara-Su Chronicles? 

Maybe then we'd  finally get to see that supposed majority of fans he claims to have, in action. 

He's not someone that's easily convinced with numbers.

The Lost Ones sold poorly and was immediately dropped by Image after one issue, and it's considered a "best-seller." He's convinced that any drop in sales after Sonic #50 was specifically because he wasn't head writer (and surely not at all because other issues don't sell as much as milestones--that's crazy talk!), despite having a book about Knuckles all to himself that, on average, sold worse in the direct market than Sonic to the point that he had asked people to buy two copies to inflate sales (I can't remember if the source to this was lost in the crash, so if someone can find the archive link to it, that'd be great).

So, trust me, if a Kickstarter comes along, and it tanks, he'll find something to blame, and it definitely won't be the product.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Zaysho

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Well, it certainly couldn't be the problem this time! Nothing that takes this long to make could ever be critically flawed in any way!

[Salamander]

I'm pretty sure that Penders is privately fully aware of the fact that any Kickstarter or Patreon he were to start would be a hopeless flop, and he can't risk that blow to his credibility.

[Forte-Metallix]

 

I'm pretty sure that Penders is privately fully aware of the fact that any Kickstarter or Patreon he were to start would be a hopeless flop, and he can't risk that blow to his credibility.

>Implying he has any credibility left

But seriously, I'd love to see that Kickstarter, just to see what stupid stretch goals he offers.

>$1000: Send me a photo of yourself, and I'll trace it as a background character! (Disclaimer: You will not receive any recognition or compensation)

>$2000: Free digital copy of The Lara-Su Chronicles!

>$5000: Free signed copy of a Sonic the Hedgehog issue I didn't write!

>$7000: Free Lara-Su iPhone case, featuring my original character: K'nox the Enchilada Echyd'nya!

>$10,000: I might finish the first chapter before the world ends! No promises, though!

 

[Dejimon11]

Everything except for that last part sounds like something he would say.

[Maeson]

$11,000 I'll shoot more potshots at that meddling Flynn to improve LSC development.

...I'm joking, I'll do it free:

 

...The Ride Never Ends.

My god what a thread of messages. "Stop trying to be relevant" is quite THE slap in the face, seeing how Mr. Penders is...

Edited November 3, 2015 by Maeson

[horridus]

The Lost Ones sold poorly and was immediately dropped by Image after one issue, and it's considered a "best-seller." He's convinced that any drop in sales after Sonic #50 was specifically because he wasn't head writer (and surely not at all because other issues don't sell as much as milestones--that's crazy talk!), despite having a book about Knuckles all to himself that, on average, sold worse in the direct market than Sonic to the point that he had asked people to buy two copies to inflate sales (I can't remember if the source to this was lost in the crash, so if someone can find the archive link to it, that'd be great).

I believe he's calling it a 'sleeper hit' or a 'cult classic' or something now. 

And since you so asked, here be a quote to his plea for customers to buy more issues of Knuckles. 

While SONIC has been a solid performer with name-brand recognition, for some reason, both KNUCKLES and SONIC SUPER SPECIAL have a harder time getting through the food chain and into the readers hands.

Be that as it may, the fact is, the publishers don't care about the whys and wherefores. They're not looking for explanations. Either a book sells or it doesn't. While that may not be fair from a fan's point of view, this is how business is currently conducted in America today.

Now that we've defined the problem, that various factors are making it more difficult than ever for KNUCKLES' fans to follow their hero, we obviously need a solution, and in this case, there's only one. The only one the publishers will listen to.

If you really, truly think the book is worthy of your time and effort, I recommend that everyone who feels this way buy one extra copy for six months and pass 'em along to different friends, getting them hooked.

Here be the source... for some reason the options won't let me use the usual link function. 

http://mokat01.tripod.com/saveknux.html

Amazing that for a guy who regards himself as a businessman, which is largely concerned with cold hard fact regarding sales and the like, he sure seems to take an overly emotive view of how things are done, casting himself as a hero and his superiors as villains for not going the extra mile to sustain something that wasn't operating within the perimeters they set up. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

While SONIC has been a solid performer with name-brand recognition, for some reason, both KNUCKLES and SONIC SUPER SPECIAL have a harder time getting through the food chain and into the readers hands.

Be that as it may, the fact is, the publishers don't care about the whys and wherefores. They're not looking for explanations. Either a book sells or it doesn't. While that may not be fair from a fan's point of view, this is how business is currently conducted in America today.

Now that we've defined the problem, that various factors are making it more difficult than ever for KNUCKLES' fans to follow their hero, we obviously need a solution, and in this case, there's only one. The only one the publishers will listen to.

If you really, truly think the book is worthy of your time and effort, I recommend that everyone who feels this way buy one extra copy for six months and pass 'em along to different friends, getting them hooked.

That's not an altogether unreasonable idea, so long as you don't like your friends.

[horridus]

Gotta love how there's no doubt present in that plan. He just readily assumes that people will be hooked in that easily. Particularly since around this time is when the issues REALLY turned to ass. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by horridus

[biznizz]

So the first issue then? No, I kid, I kid.

Lemme guess, around the time of that stupid LSD story at the carnival and the First Date? Or was it when the Dark Legion started putting on the Reich with "Hail Dimitri!"?

[Zaysho]

Going by the date and looking at when stuff was released, this is right around "The First Date." (#26)

Yeah, that's a book you really want to give to your friends.

Kind of interesting this came right on the heels of Knuckles #25's release, but oddly, even as a milestone issue, it didn't do very well from what I remember of looking up the numbers. The book was as good as dead after that. A "silver" issue wasn't selling well, that book wasn't going to make "gold".

EDIT: Huh, looking at the numbers leading to Knuckles #25... the sales were at least a few hundred units higher. It was still outpaced by Sonic, but the sales were still arguably better just the year before. Then it started sinking like a rock. Compare. #20 sold 6,069 units (Sonic #66 did 7,759 units). #25 did 5,161 (Sonic #71 did 6,764 units--this is when Sonic's design changed). Interestingly, #26 ("The First Date, part 1") did a little better than #25, at 5,406 units, probably because it was the start of a new storyline, but then sales went right back down until the book dropped past 5,000 units until its cancellation. (Note, this is ONLY direct market--this doesn't account for stuff like subscriptions or newsstands, or loss of such space like the Wal-Mart incident he's talked about--so it's actually a pretty fair assessment of how well the book was really doing on average).

Kinda sad, and I can see why he was rather desperate, but the book was just awful by then. I was a huge Knuckles fanboy and even I didn't like the stories by that point.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Zaysho

[TuxKnux]

Hi forum! I joined just to drop this bombshell in the 4999th post:

 

Edited November 4, 2015 by TuxKnux
Embed fail.

[horridus]

Hate to break it to you, but we've already discussed this. THIS lawsuit has nothing to do with Sonic, but to do with his work on an imprint line called 'Impact' back in the 90s. 

[TuxKnux]

Don't worry, I know that. I've been following the topic off-and-on to see what Penders has been up to.

But take a look at the context of the tweet. The person that Penders was replying to had originally replied to this tweet:

Of course, I could just be misunderstanding Penders' remarks, but between the above and his mention of "many" attempts to settle differences, it seems like Sonic is involved in some way.

Edited November 4, 2015 by TuxKnux

[biznizz]

I couldn't help myself. FuhrerMustang put in his two cents that it was embarrassing that after 2 years, Flynn only released one chapter of Lost Hedgehog Tales (ignoring that he's been regularly working on several monthlies plus his own stuff).

Had to mention that Ken's only confirmed 2 pages of LSC despite announcing it about 6 years ago. Or in the 3 years since the suit. Didn't mention that Ken wasn't distracted by any regular gig at all in his case (yet).

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Don't worry, I know that. I've been following the topic off-and-on to see what Penders has been up to.

But take a look at the context of the tweet. The person that Penders was replying to had originally replied to this tweet:

Of course, I could just be misunderstanding Penders' remarks, but between the above and his mention of "many" attempts to settle differences, it seems like Sonic is involved in some way.

Hmmm, this could then possibly point towards confirmation that Penders' recent teeth trend of cryptic tweets  has been referring to possible legal drama over the Lost Hedgehog Tales.