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Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)


Bluecore

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That's nice and all but it has nothing to do with what I said and its kind of insulting to have you put words in my mouth. To reiterate, I have a problem with games with bad/just okay gameplay getting a free pass because they had a good story . At no point did I say I don't want a good story. At no point did I in anyway indicate a game can't or shouldn't  have both.

 

 

also to superwlf I know you were just stating your thoughts I was just doing the same.

 

Fair enough. I apologize for jumping the gun. However, no one here was was giving any games with mediocre gameplay a free pass on the basis of their stories in this tangent, much less advocating that games turn into movies. That was a scenario you brought up yourself, and it's what I took umbrage with. There is no point in addressing a strawman with known implications when someone says "I play games for story."

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Its a good thing the levels don't require long walks and if it is, we got some things to do along the way

For hubs, I just hope its easy and fast to go to a level. Or if I wanna do something else I hope its still pretty quick to get there.

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Fair enough. I apologize for jumping the gun. However, no one here was was giving any games with mediocre gameplay a free pass on the basis of their stories in this tangent, much less advocating that games turn into movies. That was a scenario you brought up yourself, and it's what I took umbrage with. There is no point in addressing a strawman with known implications when someone says "I play games for story."

 

I see where you're coming from. However while in retrospect it wasn't clear enough it really was just a coincidence that he mentioned something I had on my mind at the time. I really wasn't speaking to anyone in specific and all I really wanted to say is that I like story too but hope that gameplay keeps being the most important thing.

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Its a good thing the levels don't require long walks and if it is, we got some things to do along the way

For hubs, I just hope its easy and fast to go to a level. Or if I wanna do something else I hope its still pretty quick to get there.

You mean you want the hubs to work like the ones in Unleashed (correct me if I'm wrong)? If that's the case, you may be disappointed. We don't know much about the hubs, but I'm pretty sure they're going to be closer to the ones in Adventure, with it being necessary to go to multiple steps to get to the levels, and probably a lot of messing around in the hubs beforehand to unlock them (the fact that Adventure was listed as one of this game's main inspirations is part of the reason I think this).

 

As awesome as Unleashed's hubs were, I preferred the Adventure setup because of the fact that getting to a level, even after completing it, wasn't as simple as just going to a "portal" (I'm not sure what else to call it) and starting the level. I actually really despised the "entrance stages" and "portals" Unleashed had. In a weird kind of way, it sort of ruined the immersion for me. I never really saw why the entrances to the levels had to be in their own little super-stages, and I hated going into a "portal" and finding myself in a whole new area for the level's start. Adventure made it feel less like I was just going to levels and more like I was going to an actual location the way it was set up, if that makes any sense.

 

Back to Boom, it looks like it's going to create the same feeling of adventure with its hubs SA1 did with its hubs, which is a very good thing. Unleashed definitely handled the NPCs better than Adventure did, though (giving them names, personalities and lives), so I do hope Boom handles the NPCs the way Unleashed did (the fact the NPCs we've seen have probably had their own personalities created for the cartoon makes me think it will).

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I think you mean giving all of them personality and not just select few. No short cuts taken.

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Do we really have to have these thorough semantic discussions about the meaning of opinions and facts every fucking time quality is brought up? 

 

While it may be annoying every now I then I think it's important.

 

If you have a character that goes from point A to point B and it took 5 minutes to get there....and you didn't do absolutely anything, but walk....no obstacles...terrain...nothing.

 

And people say "I think this is an alright game" from game design standards. People have total right to call them out for it. From a game design standards...no...walking from point a to point b does not make a good game....or a average game in the first place.

 

I don't care if that is your opinion that that was the best straight line you walked in you life in gaming...it still fucking shit level design. While I understand the importance of respecting opinions there is a line crossed where it just absolutely pure arrogance and ignorance that makes whatever your saying invalid.

 

Like the people that say the holocaust never existed...am I really supposed to respect that and say it okay that's your opinion from an intelligent standpoint? Come on now.

 

I'm not saying that the speed levels in Boom are that simplistic, but generally from a technical aspect the on-rails or straight lines that are in Boom...compared to something like Unleashed, Colours, Generations, hell even Temple Fucking Run it is subpar, but guess this makes me an asshole.

 

If anything this goes to show you that critical thinking is defiantly something you need to work on and your not born with it inherently cause damn there are some really smart people out there that can't think for shit critically.

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...People say the Holocaust never existed?

 

That's probably the densest thing you could possibly think.

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Like the people that say the holocaust never existed...am I really supposed to respect that and say it okay that's your opinion from an intelligent standpoint? Come on now.

 

This has so little to do with the point you're making I don't even know why you mentioned it. It's funny, since you ended your post saying "critical thinking is defiantly [sic] something you need to work on," but this statement shows you don't really know what critical thinking is, or at the very least, are just very bad at discussing it. An event that factually took place within our planet's history can not be compared to the subjective view point that denotes the enjoyment garnered from a video game, a view point that will change from person to person. What some like, others will not. It is that simple. 

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I hope not. I'm expecting ten hours out of this game at bare minimum. Anything less than that, and I'm calling horsepucky.

 

I have a feeling the game will be on the shorter side for experienced gamers purely based on the fact that this is aimed squarely at much younger players. These sorts of games tend to lean on the shorter side. 

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Wow, the game is really not doing well at all in terms of E3 impressions. This is really concerning actually. :/

If the game gets negative reviews, it's going to be like 06 all over again where the critics use it as a testimony as to why SEGA should kill off Sonic. Which is stupid of course. That doesn't mean that SEGA shouldn't step up their game though.

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PS;

 

 

 

Like Knuckles’ newfound digging ability

 

Excuse me?

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PS;

Excuse me?

They obviously never played Adventure, Adventure 2, and Generations then. While I can respect the opinions of the critics, I can't respect lack of knowledge of the said material. It would be even funnier if they proclaimed themselves to be a Sonic fan...
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All of the Boom imitative, but perhaps Rise of Lyric especially, has a lot riding on it in terms of critical reception. It's such a huge project that makes itself well known for being so different and featuring these new and polarising character designs that if it's a critical flop it will be remembered very, very well. Games like Lost World can sort of be chalked as forgettable, but RoL is anything but. Meanwhile shattered Crystal is RoL's little brother. Even if it turns out to be favoured and generally liked, it won't be able to escape RoL's shadow. All of Boom's success is currently riding on the success of the TV show and the toy line. We can't really count on sales (Wii U...) or critical reception to see it through.

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Sonic Boom is a bad game. It’s not even Sonic the Hedgehog for Xbox bad, that at least tried and failed to be a Sonic game. Impossible as it sounds, Sonic Boom plays like a game made by people who have never played a Sonic game, for an audience who has never played a Sonic game.

 

This reminds me of when people were saying Lost World was worse than Sonic 06 for these same reasons...

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I think the main part of the Boom initiative is the TV show....or, at least it should be. But you are quite right Blue Blood when you say that RoL could cast a shadow over the franchise. Maybe the Wii U exclusivity and the fact that it's being done by BRB will limit the damage it could potentially do, but at the moment, it's all up in the air.

This reminds me of when people were saying Lost World was worse than Sonic 06 for these same reasons...

Lost World still felt like a Sonic game though in the end. There were some Mario vibes but not that many. Speaking of Lost World that game is actually growing on me now.

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The TV show is the face of it all that's going to lure the audience in, an audience who likely won't notice RoL's shortcomings. A lot of money will have been poured into it. I think that it'll be a success right now, as will the toy line, but the games? Eeeeeeeehhh...

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Oh, I believe that the TV show and toys will do well. Kids love shows like what Sonic Boom is supposed to be, so I can see the show doing very well. I just hope that Tomy distribute the toys....well....everywhere, unlike Jazwares' products which sometimes involves a trek to find them. For example, you can't find the Sonic figures in Argos in the UK to my knowledge, nor Tesco but it could depend on store.

I also think that Shattered Crystal might be popular among kids, because more kids own a 3DS and the 3DS version will be cheaper.

(Just to clarify, was it said that we're not allowed to talk about things relating to sales? I'm not sure. If so I wasn't aware, I'll edit the post if need be)

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I wonder how upgrades work, I know they were mentioned. Like are there powerups, I wonder? It'd be cool if shields made a return in some way like Shattered Crystal. Can't wait to see the more platformy stages.

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"SONIC BOOM IS A BAD GAME."

I LOL'd so hard I almost choked on my biscuit. Because every preview I read doesn't go straight to the point, but this one does from the first sentence. In bolded words. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but there hasn't been a single preview that isn't Sonic Stadium/SEGABits that is positive right?

 

I really do feel sorry for Frost though. He doesn't deserve all this as I know he and his team worked hard on this game. If it turns out very bad, SEGA would not probably hire BigRedButton anymore which is a total shame. I'm worried about that. I love LEGO games, so I wouldn't have a problem playing this sort of game---unless, it's worse than the LEGO games...

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*PLEASE READ*

Okay, this comment is not in anyway about changing anyones opinions nor me declaring that Sonic Boom is absolutely horrible or amazing. I am telling you this because of all these kinds of posts and threads on the forum, so none of that.

 

What this comment is about is outlining some important issues which some people believe that will make this game bad (again, not about changing someones opinion).

 

So lets get started!

 

1. Combat

 

One of the biggest complaints about combat I have seen is about the boringness and blandness. They say that the game is a

 

"mash A to win"

 

kind of game. However, many people have been missing the fact that BRB and Stephen Frost have been mentioning the fact that combat will be upgradeable later in the game and collecting collectables will allow you to unlock new moves. This is interesting because it is similar to the werehog aspect of Sonic Unleashed. I personally think that this feature will stop the game becoming boring and repetitive.

 

 

2. Enemies

 

Just look at Stephen's Quote.

 

"You all have only seen a few enemy types, with only the variation in the grunt being one that carries a shield. Using that as an example, though, you can't attack an enemy from the front when they have a shield, you either need to go around or remove the shield with the Enerbeam. The pro/con with the Enerbeam is that you are vulnerable when you use it. In the E3 demo, it is tuned to be a bit easier than it would normally be. In the normal game, if you try to just use the Enerbeam a lot without thinking about it, you will be hit quite a bit. Also, enemies have invulnerable states that normal attacks cannot get through. However, your charge attack can get through it. However, you can't really move when you are charging, so you have to think about when to use it. There are tiers of charge moves, as well. That's a little bit of insight into the combat system.

 

For those saying that more powerful robots cause more damage, you are correct. We didn't think it made sense to have a small enemy damage you as much as a more powerful one. Also, later on, enemies all will do things to affect the fighting areas, so you can't just run and attack someone blindly. It's gets pretty intense. You have to look for your opportunities to perform attacks. Just mash against later enemies and you will get hurt."

 

 

He states that:

- More powerful enemies will do more damage

- Enemies will have invulnerability states which only charged attacks can get through

-Enerbeam will be used in combat in multiple ways (i.e. lassoing, taking shields)

-However the enerbeam has the disadvantage that you will be vulnerable when using it

-Tiers of charge moves

-In E3 demo the game was easier than in the normal game

 

He even argues against the mashing argument with the statement

 

"Just mash against later enemies and you will get hurt."

 

What is also interesting is that he mentions that this a little insight into the combat system, the final combat system may actually be even more complicated.

 

3. Slow Nature

 

People keep seeming to mention the gameplay is monotonous and boring. While this may the case, these stages are meant to slow as they are adventure stages. They slow down Sonic so that you can explore and uncover secrets. Also, there are dedicated stages to provide the sonic-y feeling which we all know and love. And, the stages themselves change dramatically and are not always the same type of gameplay. Also while we are on this topic, in the toxic waste level, people complained that the Guardian Chase was boring and meaningless. I'm just going to insert Stephen's quote here to explain the reason for this:

 

"Moving onto the Guardian chase... that first encounter with it is deliberately made simple. However, he bothers you all through the level. The other chase sequences with him get more elaborate."

 

Question: "That Chase sequence seems so pointless, there weren't any obstacles to avoid and the Robot doesn't even seem to be able to actually attack you in any way. So other than a way to get to the next part of the level and maybe regain health(...?)why did that need to be there?"

 

Answer: "The sequence is an intro to The Guardian. Since you are not aware of what he can do initially, the sequence is pretty basic. However, he shows up throughout the level and each encounter gets more and more challenging."

 

Anyway, that's the main points I can think of at the moment, maybe post more later biggrin.png

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I really do feel sorry for Frost though. He doesn't deserve all this as I know he and his team worked hard on this game. If it turns out very bad, SEGA would not probably hire BigRedButton anymore which is a total shame. I'm worried about that. I love LEGO games, so I wouldn't have a problem playing this sort of game---unless, it's worse than the LEGO games...

Yeah, I really feel sorry for Frost. It must be heartbreaking after all of the effort. I think that's probably why he's keeping off the forums, because he hasn't been seen on SEGA forums either. Here's hoping that in the future he gets moved to a better project, but not Sonic (as working on a Sonic game is probably more stressful than any other SEGA franchise).

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I'll be honest, and say that I while I don't feel either sorry for Frost or good about the fact the fact that the game is shaping up so poorly, it does rather bug me that he came here to quell our fears only for them to later be realised yet again. Much of RoL at the moment is looking to be something that the developers can't honestly is the top of the range we expected, so it kind of feels like we've been lied to. I think he should have thought twice before coming here to tell us we needed to give it another chance when it appeared that many of us were right all along.

Just to reiterate, I want to like Boom. I think it has oodles of potential, and RoL is doing it a great disservice.

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kind of game. However, many people have been missing the fact that BRB and Stephen Frost have been mentioning the fact that combat will be upgradeable later in the game and collecting collectables will allow you to unlock new moves. This is interesting because it is similar to the werehog aspect of Sonic Unleashed. I personally think that this feature will stop the game becoming boring and repetitive.

No it won't. If anything that will make it worse. The problem that the werehog has is that the only way you can get through the early stages quickly is with upgrades. However as with any game like this it takes so long to get the materials to upgrade you'll more than likely be close to if not at the end of the game making any upgrade close to absolutely pointless.

A lot of games like this already have quite an array of moves pre-unlocked which require some degree of skill to pull off.

 

are meant to slow as they are adventure stages. They slow down Sonic so that you can explore and uncover secrets. Also, there are dedicated stages to provide the sonic-y feeling which we all know and love. And, the stages themselves change dramatically and are not always the same type of gameplay. Also while we are on this topic, in the toxic waste level, people complained that the Guardian Chase was boring and meaningless. I'm just going to insert Stephen's quote here to explain the reason for this:

Yes and those stages make up the bulk of the game, the 'sonic'y' stages are a tiny part of it which are only there as connecting you from one 'hub' to another, at least that's certainly the impression given so far. Even the 'sonicy' guardian chase sequences look slow, it's almost like they're going for a stroll as opposed to being chased. Those sequences come within the adventure slow poke arenas, they're not going to get any faster, that is it, that is the top speed that we've seen right there, it doesn't look fast and so far doesn't look exciting at all.

I'll be honest, and say that I while I don't feel either sorry for Frost or good about the fact the fact that the game is shaping up so poorly, it does rather bug me that he came here to quell our fears only for them to later be realised yet again. Much of RoL at the moment is looking to be something that the developers can't honestly is the top of the range we expected, so it kind of feels like we've been lied to. I think he should have thought twice before coming here to tell us we needed to give it another chance when it appeared that many of us were right all along.

Just to reiterate, I want to like Boom. I think it has oodles of potential, and RoL is doing it a great disservice.

 

The thing I can't understand and what annoys me, like you I really wanted to like this, and a few weeks before E3 there was a big thing about 'why are Sega being so quiet about this game?' and Stephen came here and told everybody to be patient and that we'd get a lot of news soon.

 

The exact quote was....

 

 

 

There is quite a bit of cool stuff ahead so hang in there.

 

The next thing released was the B-Roll.

 

But aside from that, we got given the 'we wanted to show this was different' which has allowed people to say 'well of course it's not the 'best stages'' Sorry but that excuse doesn't fly with me, E3 is the show for game developers to show off the BEST of their products, if you don't show the best of your stuff there then your game will suffer.

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