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Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)


Bluecore

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And you guys were the ones who brought up W101's "layer of depth" while assuming that Sonic Boom didn't have it, not me. You asked for it. 

Oh, really?

 

Meh, I don't get the complaint for button masher. W101 was a button masher, but it had awesome gameplay. Mashing a button doesn't make the game more boring, imo,

What an interesting comment.

Like I said before it was you who tried to use W101 as something to support boom

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Ima be honest and say this...for the sake of Sonic's recovering status...SEGA needs to cancel this game. Regardless if you want this game or not if this game comes out this is only going to further put Sonic in a bad spot and I don't think the cartoon can make up for it.

 

Please SEGA don't make the 06 mistake again do the right thing and let it go.

 

This is sounding like Sonic 06 all over again..just this time we know better and can see the train wreck happening. At this point I don't see any reason why something with so much negative feedback should come out.

 

I really hope SEGA does something about this....Lost World was an a bump in the road and it happens.....but they just went from bad to reallly bad. 

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For someone who said they played Wonderful 101, you don't act like it. "You only get Wonder Red and Blue."

So should we forget about Wonder Green and Pink and Black etc?

"No combos or upgrades"

...except there ARE. E.G Early on blue gets a rising slash move.

Did you just play the bleeding demo? With Boom, that's all we have to currently go off, but 101 is a released game.

With regards to Wonderful 101, "button masher" undermines its combat compared to Boom.

 

Should you also forget that you only start out with those two? Or the fact that you don't start out with upgrades? I'm comparing W101's base combat and abilities to Boom's, so acknowledging these facts is perfectly logical. Plus, if you're talking about alternate characters, then it's perfectly reasonable to bring in Boom's alternate characters, including Tails, who doesn't even brawl, and instead uses weapons and throws grenades.

 

Also, yeah, E3 demoers are dense at times. But what about that Cobermani guy? He was there, he's a seasoned gamer even in the Sonic department, and yet nope, the combat still looks dull.

Also placing the combat on a lower level for the demo was stupid because of the impressions it creates. Fleshed out combat would have made the demo less tedious, as is a complaint levelled against the combat.

And OK, say the combat is too complicated for the simpletons you make E3 attendees out to be.

Then that's an issue in itself! It means the combat is badly conveyed, and so you basically just brought up another reason the combat concept is flawed.

If they want to show us how the combat is intersting, they should have done that. Like with the boss, maybe Tails can attack it with weapons - so why the fuck not show that to alleviate concerns about repetitive gameplay?

Come back when you've played past the first level of Wonderful 101, then compare Boom's balls combat to it.

 

 

Cobermani didn't even show any footage for Boom Wii U, so you don't even know how this "seasoned" gamer even took to the demo. Only that he found it dull.

 

Demos are supposed to be accessible, that is their main priority. If the enemies are too tough to beat, or if the moves required to efficiently defeat the enemy are to complex, all you're going to create is frustration. It's why levels such as Jungle Joyride or Lava Mountain aren't shown in favor of Apatos or Windy Hill. And a timed demo can't "convey" combos or alternate attack styles well and enjoyably to players; That is for people who actually have the time to sit down and analyze the game. To ask for the most complex mechanics the game's got out of a demo is, honestly, a ridiculous request.

 

And for the record, I've played through W101 in it's entirety, and as a matter of fact, it's my favorite video game. I don't think it directly compares to Boom with it's quality, oh definitely not, but with the design philosophies, I can definitely make connections.

 

 

Oh, really?

 

What an interesting comment.

Like I said before it was you who tried to use W101 as something to support boom

 

I may have used W101 to back up my statement, as that is a game I greatly enjoy that does the same thing you were describing, but you were the ones who assumed that Sonic Boom didn't have said layer, thus triggering the argument of what was shown and what we know.

 

 

But i must say there is a differences between a game allowing button mashing and a game being nothing but button mashing.

 

 

And even then, beyond the mash A thing, it still had that other layer of depth. This game lacks any depth besides "mash A, " from what I've seen.

 
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Remember that the combat won't always be simple, and some baddies will be tougher and/or force you to try other tactics. Even if the selection of moves is shallow, there will still be some elements that could potentially make fighting a bit more exciting.

 

Also, while I admit the negativity has gotten to me on occasion, I'm still hopeful that this game will turn out great.

 

If not anything else, I'm probably going to play RoL for the story and writing. I still want to see how this reimagining goes.

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I may have used W101 to back up my statement, as that is a game I greatly enjoy that does the same thing you were describing, but you were the ones who assumed that Sonic Boom didn't have said layer, thus triggering the argument of what was shown and what we know.

 

So you really are still going to claim wonderful101 is a button masher and that sonic has given us a reason to believe it has depth. Ok whatever im done.

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I'm not talking about the tutorial level, I'm talking about the first actual level.

 

Personally, I think W101's combat will be better than Boom's combat in the end, without a doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that it's just as guilty of having the ability to be a mindless button masher as Boom does. It's the ability to be more than that that counts.

 

And you guys were the ones who brought up W101's "layer of depth" while assuming that Sonic Boom didn't have it, not me. You asked for it. Though I've already brought up a point to where the game requires more strategy than hitting the snakes without a second thought for good ranks, the huge, intelligent robot that hurts you if you do button mash, and the combos no one noticed, so you've got your wish. I objectively state that this game has more going for it than a mindless button masher does. Happy?

 

kazura-laughc_zps12ccaa38.gif

 

The Wonderful 101 has the ability to be a mindless button masher?  I'm crying.

 

Right from the very start, W101 has a large focus on positioning and movement.  There's emphasis on the crowd controlling aspects of the combat both in controlling your team and the enemies.  The ability to pick up your allies when they become knocked out is literally the very first thing the game teaches you.  The reason you're given a bird's eye view of the battlefield is so you can easily track both how your team is doing and how the enemy is acting.

 

Speaking of the team, let's talk about how important they are.  The number of allies you have can determine how strong your attacks are, however you're given complete control over how strong you want to attacks to be.  You can make them small and quick, or make a huge ass weapon and just sweep the field.  The only problem is that making a huge ass weapon hampers your speed considerably, leaves you incredibly open, and is only temporary to begin with.  Thus you are tasked with micro managing your team, balancing out mobility with power.  Your allies can also gang up on larger baddies Pikmin style to break their guard, leaving them open to your advances.  However the drawback to this is that it leaves you weaker and your allies become out of your control until you call them back to the group.

 

The demo gives you 3 different weapon types for you to manipulate.  The Hand, The Sword, and The Gun and each have their own unique abilities and combos.  There are several more weapons you obtain through the story, and even more that you have to unlock through miscellaneous methods.  The Hand is good for mono-a-mono, dealing damage to those giant baddies with loads of health.  The sword is great the for previously mentioned crowd controlling aspect with its more sweeping combos.  The Gun is obviously for ranged combat.  Each of these have specific uses and have to be applied as such, and from there you can mix and match and pull off some sweet looking combos.  They require you to dodge, block, pick your weapons wisely, watch your enemies closely, and play both yours and your allies' strengths accordingly. 

 

And when it's all over, the game ranks you to either congratulate you or to tell you that you can do a better job.  The game's a button masher?  I can already see that Consolation Prize littering each and every last Operation.  Let's not go into too much detail about how much the bosses punish you for button mashing.  Two of the bosses are literally Punch-Out!  The type of fight you can't button mash to victory (unless you want to see that game over screen over and over again?).

 

Button mashing just doesn't work in W101.  It doesn't want you to and it goes out of its way to make sure you don't.  I don't want to hear some "oh but there's an easy mode where you can button mash!" garbage either.  The game's easy on easy?  Stop the presses!  

 

You know though, you're right, some people are idiots and they play the game "wrong", but are you honestly telling me such a large group of gaming industry veterans and newcomers alike all played the game wrong and not a single person who views the game negatively figured out the game and was able to understand it?  I look at Sonic Boom and what I see is unimpressive and all the rest of the game is going to do is build on top of what has already been established. The only design aspects being shared between Boom and W101 is "press a button to attack" or "press the control stick to move".  The foundation so far is boring and dull; there are several impressions that can attest to that at this point, and I don't believe that a game built on top of it can even come close to The Wonderful 101 in terms of combat complexity.  

 

Hell, it can't touch any of Platinum's games.  No way in hell.  

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Well if Cobermani found it dull then I guess that speaks his opinion for itself, gameplay footage or not.

In terms of depth to combat though, 101 is still leagues above Boom, even if it has a level up feature.

Combat in 101 has unite morphs of multiple kinds, with the ability to switch on the fly, has other strategising methods such as separating team members to focus on specific areas, a variable strength mechanic for unite morphs, and frantic fast paced action that keeps the combat feeling fluid. And then there's the level up system and upgrades, including the ones you can buy.

To our knowledge, Boom apparently has a level up system and switching characters on the fly, which I don't even know if the Wii U version has.

Which one sounds more in depth? And not to mention, Boom's actual combat looks incredibly clunky and jarring, which shouldn't be the case in a game starring the fastest thing alive.

So in terms of layers of gameplay Boom is still pretty bloody weak. It's better than I first thought, but the actual gameplay mechanics themselves hold it back in the first place. Even the werehog looked more fluid than this, and at least he could run rather than jog.

EDIT: AAAAND there's Nix summing up my thoughts better than I could.

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NUUUUUUU! NIX JACKED MY THOUGHTS BEFORE I COULD POST THEM D:<!

 

But yeah, what Nix and Tracker said. Comparing a game where you control 1 out four characters with potentially shallow movepools vs a game where you control upwards of a 100 characters with at least 7-8 possessing distinct shallow movepools that need to form a stronger whole than the parts doesn't really work very well...

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I wonder if this agruement will last 4 months....

Its gonna last until the first review. So in the mean time, sit back and enjoy the chaos.

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I thought the combat shown off during the Japanese live steam looked quite entertaining and enjoyable. It's clear that this person actually knew how to play the game.
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The idea of platinum making a sonic boom game just went through my head and just trying to fathom how awesome it would be brought a single tear to my eye. Once platinum makes something you know it gonna be a quality product and 


The idea of platinum making a sonic boom game just went through my head and just trying to fathom how awesome it would be brought a single tear to my eye. Once platinum makes something you know it gonna be a quality product and 

 

 

Homing attack,Homing attack,Homing attack,Homing attack, Slam,Homing attack,Homing attack,Homing attack. 

Yeah it looks so good.

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This entire post below this saddens me. Not only do I appreciate what W101 did in terms of gameplay, but I consider them to be some of the greatest mechanics in the history of the genre. As I said before, this game is my favorite game of all time, and is the whole reason why I brought it up. I continued because I wanted to be the Devil's Advocate to test their arguments, and also because I eventually found their reasoning to be flawed. I personally don't think Boom will ever achieve the same level of quality and potential depth as W101, and it definitely won't hold a candle to it in my favorites list. That said, however...

kazura-laughc_zps12ccaa38.gif

 

The Wonderful 101 has the ability to be a mindless button masher?  I'm crying.

 

Right from the very start, W101 has a large focus on positioning and movement.  There's emphasis on the crowd controlling aspects of the combat both in controlling your team and the enemies.  The ability to pick up your allies when they become knocked out is literally the very first thing the game teaches you.  The reason you're given a bird's eye view of the battlefield is so you can easily track both how your team is doing and how the enemy is acting.

 

How does this detract from my claim that it has the ability to be a button masher? This merely changes the way you respond to damage, and the way you view the gameplay.

 

Speaking of the team, let's talk about how important they are.  The number of allies you have can determine how strong your attacks are, however you're given complete control over how strong you want to attacks to be.  You can make them small and quick, or make a huge ass weapon and just sweep the field.  The only problem is that making a huge ass weapon hampers your speed considerably, leaves you incredibly open, and is only temporary to begin with.  Thus you are tasked with micro managing your team, balancing out mobility with power.  Your allies can also gang up on larger baddies Pikmin style to break their guard, leaving them open to your advances.  However the drawback to this is that it leaves you weaker and your allies become out of your control until you call them back to the group.

 

The number of allies never dwindles below the acquired amount, though, so you effectively have nothing to lose from them getting hit.

 

The changing of power and the mobility of it is also in RoL in a form, as well. Charging a move makes you stay in one place for a while, but when you release it, it's far more powerful than the normal attack. The ganging-up aspect may not be in the game in full spirit, though, but you can definitely have the other player help you out with attacking enemies.

 

The demo gives you 3 different weapon types for you to manipulate.  The Hand, The Sword, and The Gun and each have their own unique abilities and combos.  There are several more weapons you obtain through the story, and even more that you have to unlock through miscellaneous methods.  The Hand is good for mono-a-mono, dealing damage to those giant baddies with loads of health.  The sword is great the for previously mentioned crowd controlling aspect with its more sweeping combos.  The Gun is obviously for ranged combat.  Each of these have specific uses and have to be applied as such, and from there you can mix and match and pull off some sweet looking combos.  They require you to dodge, block, pick your weapons wisely, watch your enemies closely, and play both yours and your allies' strengths accordingly. 

 

Again, parallels between the two games can be drawn from this. Claw/Sonic is speed, hand/Knuckles is strength, sword/Amy is crowd control, and gun/Tails is ranged combat. The differences are there, and can be utilized. However, hardly any enemies require these weapon choices to be defeated, (moreso for Boom, as it's a co-op game) so it's all a matter of efficiency for the most part. Still doesn't change the fact that it's a button masher, though.

 

And when it's all over, the game ranks you to either congratulate you or to tell you that you can do a better job.  The game's a button masher?  I can already see that Consolation Prize littering each and every last Operation.  Let's not go into too much detail about how much the bosses punish you for button mashing.  Two of the bosses are literally Punch-Out!  The type of fight you can't button mash to victory (unless you want to see that game over screen over and over again?).

 

I only got the Consolation prize three times during my first playthrough, yet I button mashed all the way through it. Did way better on my second runthrough when I stopped doing that, though.

 

The bosses aren't exactly fair to compair, though, as I didn't say that the bosses were button mashers, and the bosses in RoL hardly have any mashing of said buttons.

 

Button mashing just doesn't work in W101.  It doesn't want you to and it goes out of its way to make sure you don't.  I don't want to hear some "oh but there's an easy mode where you can button mash!" garbage either.  The game's easy on easy?  Stop the presses!  The only design aspects being shared between Boom and W101 is "press a button to attack" or "press the control stick to move".

 

I played on normal. Still button mashed my way through, with only three consolation prizes. Still, it should be fair to note that the demo of RoL was probably on the easiest setting, as Steven specifically said that there would be an unshown mode that would satisfy the itch for a harder experience. So, yes, it can be compared to the easy mode for W101.

 

You know though, you're right, some people are idiots and they play the game "wrong", but are you honestly telling me such a large group of gaming industry veterans and newcomers alike all played the game wrong and not a single person who views the game negatively figured out the game and was able to understand it?  I look at Sonic Boom and what I see is unimpressive and all the rest of the game is going to do is build on top of what has already been established.  The foundation so far is boring and dull; there are several impressions that can attest to that at this point, and I don't believe that a game built on top of it can even come close to The Wonderful 101 in terms of combat complexity.  

 

I watched all the gameplay videos I could find at this point, and not one single one besides the SEGA of Japan demo actually played through it well, barely utilizing half of the moves. So, yes, yes I am.

 

Hell, it can't touch any of Platinum's games.  No way in hell.  

 

And I firmly agree with that statement; Platinum is way out of BRB's league. What I don't agree with, is the refutation of my claim that it's possible to button mash through W101, as hardly any of the points brought up in the previous post actually refuted the ability to button mash, and the fact that my own experience with the game directly contradicts your statement. Nor does it refute the assertion that Sonic Boom can be deeper than it appears with more, possibly unseen, mechanics, made visible later on in the game, just as W101 does with it's gameplay. So really, while I appreciate the topics you brought to our attention on why W101 is such a good game, I don't really see the point in this post.

 

Well if Cobermani found it dull then I guess that speaks his opinion for itself, gameplay footage or not.

In terms of depth to combat though, 101 is still leagues above Boom, even if it has a level up feature.

Combat in 101 has unite morphs of multiple kinds, with the ability to switch on the fly, has other strategising methods such as separating team members to focus on specific areas, a variable strength mechanic for unite morphs, and frantic fast paced action that keeps the combat feeling fluid. And then there's the level up system and upgrades, including the ones you can buy.

To our knowledge, Boom apparently has a level up system and switching characters on the fly, which I don't even know if the Wii U version has.

Which one sounds more in depth? And not to mention, Boom's actual combat looks incredibly clunky and jarring, which shouldn't be the case in a game starring the fastest thing alive.

So in terms of layers of gameplay Boom is still pretty bloody weak. It's better than I first thought, but the actual gameplay mechanics themselves hold it back in the first place. Even the werehog looked more fluid than this, and at least he could run rather than jog.

EDIT: AAAAND there's Nix summing up my thoughts better than I could.

 

Eh, let me take that comparison and edit it a bit to suit my assertions...

 

"Combat in 101 has unite morphs of multiple kinds, with the ability to switch and combine them on the fly, has other strategizing methods such as separating team members to focus on specific areas, a variable strength mechanic for unite morphs at the cost of speed, a level up system and upgrades, rankings, and multiple health and energy gimmicks that make you strategize for more efficient attacks.

 

To out knowledge, Sonic Boom has multiple attack styles, with the ability to switch them on the fly, a chargeable strength mechanic for attacks that leaves you vulnerable, a level up system and upgrades, rankings, multiple combos for separate playstyles, and co-op gameplay."

 

Slightly less harsh and far more comparable, imo. So no, while Sonic Boom definitely doesn't hold a candle to W101 in terms of depth, it still holds it's own reasonably well as a "mindless button masher".

 

Fluidity is a thing I'm reserving judgement for, though. It could be the low framerate, it could be the unpolished alpha build, or it could be the way it was designed in the first place. Whatever it is, though, I won't especially mind it, as it adds to the sense of impact the combat will have. Having the attacks just slice through the enemy like they're butter, just for the sake of fluidity, just doesn't seem right, especially when fighting a steel-plated robot.

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The Japanese footage is giving me the vibe of "it becomes more complicated if you choose for it to be complicated". I mean, have we actually seen many times where a person would, say, switch between the Y and X buttons while attacking something to change the way the combo works? Not to mention, didn't we receive some info from the devs that the combat becomes more in depth as the game progresses? Is there a possibility that the levels we have been shown are early ones, meant to showcase the differences between this and the main series, as well as be relatively easy so as not to turn of newbies? I mean, it's not like the developers have said that multiple times or anything, obviously.

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I'll repeat this AGAIN, but if there is more complex combat system then where is ANY evidence of this in any sort if media? It's like all the talk about the more "sonicy" levels. We haven't seen anything of this, not in demo footage, not even in any sort of trailer, it's just bad marketing, if I had complaints about a game or some of its aspects that were actually in the game, I would tease it and show some of it off to refute those complaints.

As of yet BRB haven't given is any reason not to think this is it for the combat, even if the demo is easy and shallow, why no trailer or gameah teasers of the later levels. W101 did that for example, showing complex fighting with almost all the characters, Lost World even showed off some of the later levels before release, being played by an actual employee. Even Hyrule Warriors is showing is other weapons, characters ect, and loos far more interesting, showing us much more of the gameplay and what to expect, and that is defined as a button mashy game, but most people have unanimously called it fun to play

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My claim that it has the ability to be a button masher?

 

"street fighter gives you the ability to button mash therefore it's a button masher" That is exactly what it sounds like you are saying here (not just with this quote but in your arguments in general) and if you think you've proved it maybe we don't agree if what you think is a masher and maybe you should do some swimming. 

 

Anyway I really am not talking about sonic boom at this point I will just say that it does have enough complexity for me personally but as we agreed it just not that great and if it weren't for sonic face slapped on it, the fact that it just manages to be not to bad would be enough for me to not consider buying it.

 

I would like to ask anyone who's reading this a question though, what would you do to change this battle system or rather how do you think it can use its enemies,mechanics blah blah to be better in your eyes.

Something more than better combos or more fluid attacks would be nice. would really like to here how it could get past what you currently see as it flaws, if you think its not fluid enough then how would you make it more fluid?  Have it on my desk by yesterday.

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I'll repeat this AGAIN, but if there is more complex combat system then where is ANY evidence of this in any sort if media? It's like all the talk about the more "sonicy" levels. We haven't seen anything of this, not in demo footage, not even in any sort of trailer, it's just bad marketing, if I had complaints about a game or some of its aspects that were actually in the game, I would tease it and show some of it off to refute those complaints.

As of yet BRB haven't given is any reason not to think this is it for the combat, even if the demo is easy and shallow, why no trailer or gameah teasers of the later levels. W101 did that for example, showing complex fighting with almost all the characters, Lost World even showed off some of the later levels before release, being played by an actual employee. Even Hyrule Warriors is showing is other weapons, characters ect, and loos far more interesting, showing us much more of the gameplay and what to expect, and that is defined as a button mashy game, but most people have unanimously called it fun to play

 

The talk of more "sonicy" levels was just that, all talk, and not something that I personally condoned. However, we already have official conformation that the system will get more complex later in the game, so I don't get what's so hard to believe about it. Unless you're expecting werehog levels of complexity from each character, then you're in for disappointment.

 

The problem is, though, that complex combat isn't the highest want on the list of things to show off. The only way for them to get to that after wading through the tons of complaints the game otherwise has, is for them to spoil about as much as Sonic Team when it comes to trailers and demos, which... isn't my favorite marketing decision, to say the least.

 

"street fighter gives you the ability to button mash therefore it's a button masher" That is exactly what sounds like you are saying here and if you think you've proved it you need to go learn what a button masher is and maybe do some swimming. 

Button Masher: A game in which you are able to mash buttons and win without much thought

 

Sonic Boom, you fall backwards and lose rings which you can use as money, W101, your fighters fall backwards and you have to run over them to pick them up faster. Big difference.

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Sonic Boom, you fall backwards and lose rings which you can use as money, W101, your fighters fall backwards and you have to run over them to pick them up faster. Big difference.

 

What does that have to do with anything? I think maybe you forgot to add a quote in because that really has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Either way saying any of platinum's games is just mashing buttons without thought is just gonna lower your credibility.

 

Also as I said before to me sonic boom isn't really a button masher its problems lie elsewhere.

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What does that have to do with anything? I think maybe you forgot to and a quote in because that really has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Either way saying any of platinum's games is just mashing buttons without thought is just going to hurt your credibility.

It's the part of my post you [edit: had] quoted?

 

And I don't care. It's how I played my first playthrough of W101, and it's how my eight-year-old sister played through W101. Deal with it.

 

Edit:

 

Also as I said before to me sonic boom isn't really a button masher its problems lie elsewhere.

And what would those problems be?

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Isee, bad editing on my part, I was only trying address your claim that W101 is a button masher and once again using street fighter as an example.

 

And I don't care. It's how I played my first playthrough of W101, and it's how my eight-year-old sister played through W101. Deal with it.

 

You and your little sister could button mash in street fighter all you want but that doesn't make it a button masher. You can ignore all the complicated mechanics but the fact is there are tons of reasons to not button mash.

 

So the answer to "why dont people complain about W101 for being a button masher"

 

I will get off W101 and talk about sonic later time for sleep.

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So despite plenty of complaints about the battle mechanics and the clunkiness of them, and the apparently samey boss fights where you throw things at the boss and then pummel them that isn't a concern?

Wow, we know there is a level up feature? But we don't know what it does, how it affects the gameplay, does it add combos? Moves? Ups player speed? Hexk they could even add that into a trailer ( title saying "Upgrade your character to unleash powerful special attacks" cut to dramatic camera angle of sonic ect pulling off a new move/combo), see not that hard.

What in saying is that these advertising trailers should he showing off the game, I know for a fact that young boys like showy, powerful, almost over the top attacks that look cool, so why not show it off? I mean if the upgrades just up attack power then that's...ok but I'd expect so much more.

I'm not asking for them to spoil the game, in asking them to showcase a core mechanic.

You know if the talk about more sonicy bits was just PR talk then how do we know this talk of the game getting more complex isn't PR talk either? Heck it could only apply to the story and not have anything to do with the gameplay at all

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Can I just ask.  Have we even seen the system of any of the other characters besides Sonic.  Suppose sonic hasn't got a great combat system compared to the others because he might have a bigger emphasis on platforming.  But I could be wrong.

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Isee, bad editing on my part, I was only trying address your claim that W101 is a button masher and once again using street fighter as an example.

 

You and your little sister could button mash in street fighter all you want but that doesn't make it a button masher. You can ignore all the complicated mechanics but the fact is there are tons of reasons to not button mash.

 

So the answer to "why dont people complain about W101 for being a button masher"

 

I will get off W101 and talk about sonic later time for sleep.

 

Ah okay, but still, by the ridiculously derogatory term than is button masher's definition, if I can win the game doing so, it is a button masher.

 

But yeah, we should probably get off this topic.

So despite plenty of complaints about the battle mechanics and the clunkiness of them, and the apparently samey boss fights where you throw things at the boss and then pummel them that isn't a concern?

Wow, we know there is a level up feature? But we don't know what it does, how it affects the gameplay, does it add combos? Moves? Ups player speed? Hexk they could even add that into a trailer ( title saying "Upgrade your character to unleash powerful special attacks" cut to dramatic camera angle of sonic ect pulling off a new move/combo), see not that hard.

What in saying is that these advertising trailers should he showing off the game, I know for a fact that young boys like showy, powerful, almost over the top attacks that look cool, so why not show it off? I mean if the upgrades just up attack power then that's...ok but I'd expect so much more.

I'm not asking for them to spoil the game, in asking them to showcase a core mechanic.

You know if the talk about more sonicy bits was just PR talk then how do we know this talk of the game getting more complex isn't PR talk either? Heck it could only apply to the story and not have anything to do with the gameplay at all

So really, you're just miffed about the marketing decision rather than the facts we know already.

 

See, I don't really understand this viewpoint. It's how I viewed last years Nintendo E3. If you know about it, and we know about it, why would it bother you? If people care about these things enough, they'd be on the internet or this site already. The general audience won't really care about this kind of info, (read: kids) as they're already being shown plenty of action in the trailers to tide them over.

 

The level up feature adds moves to teammate's combined attacks moveset, and the upgrades you buy give you single-character combos.

 

And eh? The PR team never said that the game would be getting more sonicy levels than what we were shown vs the normal levels, that was just speculation. Although Steven did mention that boosters and springs would be seen in the main levels, if that's what you're talking about.

Can I just ask.  Have we even seen the system of any of the other characters besides Sonic.  Suppose sonic hasn't got a great combat system compared to the others because he might have a bigger emphasis on platforming.  But I could be wrong.

Well Knuckles can dig underground, punch, and spin around on his head with his hands out; Amy can hit with her hammer and spin it around; and Tails can shoot lasers and throw grenades. That's pretty much all we know, though.

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Ah okay, but still, by the ridiculously derogatory term than is button masher's definition, if I can win the game doing so, it is a button masher.

 

But yeah, we should probably get off this topic.

So really, you're just miffed about the marketing decision rather than the facts we know already.

 

See, I don't really understand this viewpoint. It's how I viewed last years Nintendo E3. If you know about it, and we know about it, why would it bother you? If people care about these things enough, they'd be on the internet or this site already. The general audience won't really care about this kind of info, (read: kids) as they're already being shown plenty of action in the trailers to tide them over.

 

The level up feature adds moves to teammate's combined attacks moveset, and the upgrades you buy give you single-character combos.

 

And eh? The PR team never said that the game would be getting more sonicy levels than what we were shown vs the normal levels, that was just speculation. Although Steven did mention that boosters and springs would be seen in the main levels, if that's what you're talking about.

Well Knuckles can dig underground, punch, and spin around on his head with his hands out; Amy can hit with her hammer and spin it around; and Tails can shoot lasers and throw grenades. That's pretty much all we know, though.

 

Yeah, you can win by mashing buttons in 101.

 

On Easy Mode, as your eight year old sister or whatever it was demonstrated. Punch it up to normal, then try.

Like Sam said, just because you can button mash to win (in easy mode) doesn't make it immediately a predominant button masher. Button mashing can be applied to just about any game with combat. Street Fighter's can involve button mashing at lower levels of play, but it's a fighting game with genuine technique required to win. Go into a Street Fighter tournament and try button-mashing, and you won't get far. 

 

Also you seem to suggest we shouldn't criticise what we've seen because it tides over the target demographic. Very well if it appeals to the target demographic but that doesn't make it a good game. Carnival Games on the Wii catered to a demographic of young children, and it's still acknowledged as bollocks. 

 

Ultimately, even if the combat was amazing, Boom still would be looking far from good to me. The speed sections look almost hilariously poor, the bosses look monotonous, the music that I've heard just kind of blurs into the game and the graphical quality is questionable at best.

 

I think the only things that don't bug me are the designs (which I think actually play into the characters' concepts very well, even Knuckles) and the writing, and even that's off in places.

 

Honestly I'm getting straight up bored of this discussion. Combat looks repetitive in my opinion, end of. It seems janky and inconsistent, and I simply think that more should have been shown at E3 if there IS more to it. This discussion was the first I'd heard of the level up system, so clearly that should have been given more notice at E3 to alleviate concerns.

 

I'm judging what we've seen so far. Not the full game, just what we've seen so far. And what we've actually seen so far rather than what we've been told about is a load of shite.

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I'm really hoping they got some multiplayer modes so that we can have a 4 player free for all or some objective type.

Too bad its not going to be online if they do it

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