StarFox Zero (Wii-U)

[JaidynReiman]

I like the ideas of alternate vehicles to travel in. I think it still fits the idea of Star Fox. Now, the tower defense type game? For Star Fox that doesn't seem to fit well, but then again, Star Fox is an on-rails shooter, so a Tower Defense portion of certain levels might actually somewhat fit if he does decide to incorporate some of these things together.

 

I can't imagine the Star Fox crewing building giant robots, but if he converts it into building ships and tanks, that would make more sense. So honestly, I think all of these ideas could fit together in a Star Fox game if they did it right. Naturally, though, these things would need to be done right.

 

 

Hell, the whole "Tower Defense" idea could also be used for a space station complex, shooting machines and missiles as they are attacking a space station from all sides, which once again, would fit the scope of a Star Fox game.

 

 

Again, we'll need to see how things play out. I agree with the ideas that Miyamoto is coming up with. He wants to try something new that still feels like a Star Fox game. They did so well with Star Fox 64 so I don't see why they can't expand on that idea again now.

[Blacklightning]

Hell, the whole "Tower Defense" idea could also be used for a space station complex, shooting machines and missiles as they are attacking a space station from all sides, which once again, would fit the scope of a Star Fox game.

In fact, Arwing-based Starfoxes have already done stuff like that. Twice.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbv86E69ngk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31M6ppfTeOA

 

If it's strictly level objectives he's talking about, I don't really see what the fuss is about.

[Sami]

Here's an idea - 

 

If he's so fixated on introducing new gameplay ideas and keeping the Star Fox brand fresh... why not, you know, expand the mechanics of the Arwing with new and fresh ideas? Space exploration, maybe? Elimination of all menu screens for completely seamless and fluid game design? Online co-op to take advantage of the fact that Star Fox is a team of four people? Space battles on a much grander scale, where you align yourself with one army and try to take down a massive Star Destroyer-esque ship?

 

I just can't wrap my head around what a giant LEGO robot fighting game has to do with Star Fox, or how it complements and expands on the design of the series' core mechanics. Same goes for controller gimmicks. 

 

I understand why people respect and trust Miyamoto's judgment on this, but when every single game since the stellar 64 has been decent at best, I can't say I share the enthusiasm. This series has much more potential than he implies in interviews, but I'm just not attached to it enough anymore to be fussed about the direction they take it in anymore. 

[Soniman]

And you know what? That's fine by me. For all its clumsiness, Assault had the right idea for expanding on its original ideas, and making something fresh out of them. We don't think any less of Mario 3D World or Galaxy because it doesn't play 1:1 like Super Mario 64, or, heck, we don't think any less of 64 because it doesn't play precisely like Mario World. Games need to grow and expand to survive. Not just change entirely, not just stagnate for years, but grow. And if there's anyone I trust to pay attention and care to expanding Star Fox, it's the man who made the series what it is, and has defined and redefined many other series since.

 

All I'm asking is that, before we start doomsaying, we give Miyamoto a bit of leeway and wait to see what he plans on doing. We might end up with something even better than a Star Fox 64 2 could ever hope to be.

 

I guess my aversion to the concept of "many gimmicks in one game" is from my history with Sonic and how im kinda at this point where I dont really see the idea of making games like that beneficial, but who knows, maybe Miyamoto can make something of it

[Badnik Zero]

That camera defense game though, doesn't it seem like something you could do on the gamepad on the side while something bigger is happening on the tv? Like something they tell Slippy to do on a mission, watch the cams? 

 

Also I think what Miyamoto meant is that he didn't want to do FLUDD in Starfox and ask us to get excited about it. Because Mario Sunshine was pretty much Mario 64 with a water pack, do you get what I'm saying? If giant robots play into Starfox because Miyamoto says it's fun then I'm damn well inclined to listen. Also why are robots un-Starfox?

[azoo]

Here's an idea - 

 

If he's so fixated on introducing new gameplay ideas and keeping the Star Fox brand fresh... why not, you know, expand the mechanics of the Arwing with new and fresh ideas? Space exploration, maybe? Elimination of all menu screens for completely seamless and fluid game design? Online co-op to take advantage of the fact that Star Fox is a team of four people? Space battles on a much grander scale, where you align yourself with one army and try to take down a massive Star Destroyer-esque ship?

 

I just can't wrap my head around what a giant LEGO robot fighting game has to do with Star Fox, or how it complements and expands on the design of the series' core mechanics. Same goes for controller gimmicks. 

 

I understand why people respect and trust Miyamoto's judgment on this, but when every single game since the stellar 64 has been decent at best, I can't say I share the enthusiasm. This series has much more potential than he implies in interviews, but I'm just not attached to it enough anymore to be fussed about the direction they take it in anymore. 

 

Project Guard is the one where there's a base and they have it set up where you're switching cameras to spot and take down the enemies. Project Big Robot I'm almost sure has nothing to do with this game.

 

Besides that, there's no real way to say what they won't do, right now. What has he said is going on besides the 'episodic' nature of it all and that he's thought up a new way to do Arwing piloting (which may not even be forced on the player, given Nintendo's continuing inclination to offer traditional controls)? Pretty much nil.

 

We have no idea what's in store, besides some off remark that we may be fighting a kaiju. And I don't know about you, but that sounds about as crazy awesome as a Star Fox game should be. 

[Conando]

From what I understand, the GamePad could be entirely optional since it's used in a cooperative mode where the player on the Pro Controller (and other normal controls, I assume) pilots an Arwing, or perhaps new vehicle, while the gamepad player is actually the gunner. I think it's just about giving people options really, Miyamoto DOES want to show off the GamePad, but Nintendo (and by extension Miyamoto himself) doesn't seem to keen on alienating potential customers at this point. Look at Splatoon, that DOES use gyro, but you don't have to use it (they claim it makes fine tuning your aim better, though).

[Sami]

Project Guard is the one where there's a base and they have it set up where you're switching cameras to spot and take down the enemies. Project Big Robot I'm almost sure has nothing to do with this game.

 

Besides that, there's no real way to say what they won't do, right now. What has he said is going on besides the 'episodic' nature of it all and that he's thought up a new way to do Arwing piloting (which may not even be forced on the player, given Nintendo's continuing inclination to offer traditional controls)? Pretty much nil.

 

We have no idea what's in store, besides some off remark that we may be fighting a kaiju. And I don't know about you, but that sounds about as crazy awesome as a Star Fox game should be. 

 

Oh, okay. I googled Project Guard and saw images of the robot. Thanks for the correction. 

 

There's nothing about what he said that particularly bothers me, honestly. None of us even know what "episodic" is supposed to imply, and we still know nothing about it. I just wish that rather than adding extra modes and features to accompany the Arwing gameplay, they instead focus on making that one mode more interesting and fresh with a sequel. It's been almost two decades since 64 launched - there's a ton of new things the technology allows them to do with the gameplay.

 

As of now though, you're right. There's simply not enough information to directly criticize anything. I guess I've just become jaded about the series.

[JaidynReiman]

Project Guard is the one where there's a base and they have it set up where you're switching cameras to spot and take down the enemies. Project Big Robot I'm almost sure has nothing to do with this game.

 

Besides that, there's no real way to say what they won't do, right now. What has he said is going on besides the 'episodic' nature of it all and that he's thought up a new way to do Arwing piloting (which may not even be forced on the player, given Nintendo's continuing inclination to offer traditional controls)? Pretty much nil.

 

We have no idea what's in store, besides some off remark that we may be fighting a kaiju. And I don't know about you, but that sounds about as crazy awesome as a Star Fox game should be. 

I was pretty sure it was mentioned in this topic that both side "Projects" might actually end up part of the new Star Fox game. Not just Project Guard but also Project Giant Robot.

 

Here's an idea - 

 

If he's so fixated on introducing new gameplay ideas and keeping the Star Fox brand fresh... why not, you know, expand the mechanics of the Arwing with new and fresh ideas? Space exploration, maybe? Elimination of all menu screens for completely seamless and fluid game design? Online co-op to take advantage of the fact that Star Fox is a team of four people? Space battles on a much grander scale, where you align yourself with one army and try to take down a massive Star Destroyer-esque ship?

 

I just can't wrap my head around what a giant LEGO robot fighting game has to do with Star Fox, or how it complements and expands on the design of the series' core mechanics. Same goes for controller gimmicks. 

 

I understand why people respect and trust Miyamoto's judgment on this, but when every single game since the stellar 64 has been decent at best, I can't say I share the enthusiasm. This series has much more potential than he implies in interviews, but I'm just not attached to it enough anymore to be fussed about the direction they take it in anymore. 

The idea of building new machines to ride in during a Star Fox game doesn't seem all that farfetched to me. Just change it from giant robots to building tanks, subs, and ships like Arwings. I can easily see how that can be incorporated into a Star Fox game.

[Soniman]

Oh, okay. I googled Project Guard and saw images of the robot. Thanks for the correction. 

 

There's nothing about what he said that particularly bothers me, honestly. None of us even know what "episodic" is supposed to imply, and we still know nothing about it. I just wish that rather than adding extra modes and features to accompany the Arwing gameplay, they instead focus on making that one mode more interesting and fresh with a sequel. It's been almost two decades since 64 launched - there's a ton of new things the technology allows them to do with the gameplay.

 

As of now though, you're right. There's simply not enough information to directly criticize anything. I guess I've just become jaded about the series.

 

I dunno, I thnk they're allowed some leeway since Star Fox Command came out in like 2005 and that was nearly 10 years ago...

 

Jesus christ the last Star Fox game was 10 years ago....

[Sami]

The idea of building new machines to ride in during a Star Fox game doesn't seem all that farfetched to me. Just change it from giant robots to building tanks, subs, and ships like Arwings. I can easily see how that can be incorporated into a Star Fox game.

 

I could see it, but I'd rather just have new and interesting things to do with the Arwing, myself.

 

Maybe we'll see more at TGS or something.

[Conando]

We'll probably see more of it before the year is through, for sure. Miyamoto wasn't really ready to make it public at E3.

[Candescence]

Funny thing is, I'm running a Star Fox RP with a couple of friends of mine, and we're currently doing a mission on Macbeth involving the team piloting 'helicopters' (well, more like 'hovercraft', as they use anti-grav mechanisms rather than rotary) that have a gimball turret that requires someone in the second seat to operate. And one of the vehicles in the new game has something similar.

 

I don't think Miyamoto would just throw in random mechanics without considering how they fit within the context of the game itself. We'll see what happens when he shows something more substantial later on, though what I've been seeing from the press in terms of reactions to the controls has been mostly positive.

[Tara]

I wouldn't have anything against them shoving new mechanics into the game if they weren't always so forcible or horribly implemented on their own merits.  Like, having strategy elements in the game wouldn't necessarily be bad if it complimented the simplistic, shoot-em-up fashion of the game.  Even as an RTS, Command totally fell flat, my own non-enjoyment for the genre aside.  Having Assault's "many gimmicks" wouldn't be too bad (and would actually be pretty fun) if they didn't make the AI so frustratingly inadequate that you'd be constantly walking for miles on end in an attempt to get back to your Arwing and save Slippy for the umpteenth time and then travel back to where you were.  That's not even mentioning how poorly-conveyed and open the levels were.

 

I personally think the problems with the last two Starfox games stem less from the actual mechanics and more so from their poor implementation.  I want to hope that whatever they have in store for this game will remedy those problems, but not I'm not holding my breath.  I do agree that I'd like to have the option to do nothing but play a simple, arcade-style shooter, but I think it could add a great deal of depth and optionality without unnecessary hindrance to have the additional play styles with a bit of tweaking.

[8ther]

Seeing how negative the reaction to Adventures, Assault, and Command were, i wonder if Krystal will get the boot.

[Gabz Girl]

I have faith that with Miyamoto focusing a lot more on this franchise now we will have a great game. The reason why Starfox Adventures was so bad (though I know it has it's fans, weirdly enough) is because it was originally NOT a Starfox game...until Miyamoto stepped in and said "Make it a Starfox game!" As for Assault, I really did like the variety of gameplay they were trying to pull off, but of course it had its flaws. So long as they polish up those third person bits more, I'd love to see a return of third person gameplay plus the space shooter segments.

See, the problem with Starfox's original space shooter elements is that because it's so arcadey, paying full price for such a game in this day and age is not right, especially if there isn't much to do after playing through the main game a couple of times. But then maybe that's what Miyamoto meant by episodic, that this will be released in "episodes" on the Nintendo EShop, which is fine by me.

[Junko]

Looks like this went under the radar.

 

An optional co-op mode in the upcoming Wii U Star Fox game is going to let two players command one Arwing with one flying the ship and the other shooting from it. [...] Miyamoto said the two-screen approach could also enable a co-op mode, one that presumably maps the game's flight (and tank and helicopter!) controls to a controller other than the GamePad and dedicating the GamePad to the player serving as a gunner. "We're still developing the game... but one thing we always like to try to do is have some sort of way for people to play together, and the thing about these types of space shooter games is that they're fairly easy to get into but they can look somewhat intimidating and complicated, so this time what we're doing is we actually have a mode—we just didn't show it—we've designed it so there's the ability for cooperative play where one player is able to pilot the ship and the other player is able to use the GamePad and be the gunner. So they can just aim and shoot. They don't have to worry about flying."

[Solkia]

...

 

I'm not sure how to respond to such a dumb idea.

 

Fuck the "innovative" shit already, just give us a normal goddamn shooter. If I want to play it with someone else I'm going to  drop their ass in a dogfight, not meddle around in incoherent co-op mechanics.

 

I've played games where one person controls the character and the other controls the weapon. It does not work.

Seeing how negative the reaction to Adventures, Assault, and Command were, i wonder if Krystal will get the boot.

 

The reactions to those games had next to nothing to do with her.

[Candescence]

I've played games where one person controls the character and the other controls the weapon. It does not work.

... So you haven't played any shooter within the last few generations with vehicles, then?

[Solkia]

The only shooter I've played that falls under that category is Halo PC, and being the gunner in the Warthog is an awful experience. You're better off being the driver and running people over.

[Candescence]

The only shooter I've played that falls under that category is Halo PC, and being the gunner in the Warthog is an awful experience. You're better off being the driver and running people over.

That's just weird, because I've played plenty of games with turreted vehicles, Halo PC included, and they're generally fine. I really don't see the problem with the concept.

[Junko]

The only shooter I've played that falls under that category is Halo PC, and being the gunner in the Warthog is an awful experience. You're better off being the driver and running people over.

Well, it works for every Halo game in my experience, but I'm not especially holding out for Star Fox U.

[Sami]

Surely it'd be more fun to just have two players flying separate Arwings? Asynchronous multiplayer is one of the GamePad's biggest supposed selling points - why not use it?

[Metal the Mario]

Sadly, the more I hear about these different gimmicks and the decreased emphasis on story, the less hyped I become for this game. Don't get me wrong; I'm still ecstatic that we're even getting a Star Fox game after all these years, but so far it's not really shaping up to be what I'd want from one.

 

Besides addictive, arcade-y flying gameplay, a big part of why I love Star Fox is its lore and its characters. I know that story shouldn't be the most prominent reason to play a video game, but I loved seeing how each of the characters progressed and matured from game to game (Command notwithstanding), and I enjoyed traveling to new or returning planets for different reasons. If you go from 64 to the "Farewell, Beloved Falco" manga, then to Adventures, then to Assault, you really get the sense of a living, breathing world within the Lylat System. It's kind of the same reason why I like early 2000s Sonic games so much, as well as the current comics.

 

I trust Miyamoto and he's certainly an innovative and revolutionary figure in the gaming industry, but I just don't want to see one of my favorite Nintendo series reduced to merely a testing ground for his ideas. In my opinion, 64 and Assault did it best: a focus on normal flying with the occasional switch-ups that enhanced the overall gameplay and still felt cohesive. Just give me something like that with a good story and I'd be happy. All this stuff about co-op and gyroscope controls and helicopter/robot mechanics just isn't appealing to me.

[Candescence]

Surely it'd be more fun to just have two players flying separate Arwings? Asynchronous multiplayer is one of the GamePad's biggest supposed selling points - why not use it?

Because the pad's gyroscope is being used for aiming in the Arwing. Well, aiming separate from the flying. It's sorta like Sin and Punishment like that, I suppose, it's an interesting concept, and apparently it works well. Oh, and performance is kind of a problem with rendering multiple screens, too.

 

The pilot/gunner setup probably works better with a helicopter-like vehicle in terrain that isn't terribly suited for Arwing combat - in the aforementioned RP, the reason the team was piloting helicraft in the first place was because they were working with the army and the arwings weren't terribly useful in Macbeth's rather dense urban terrain. Sometimes it's better to use a vehicle that isn't constantly going forwards all the time.

 

Of course, I imagine the co-op thing is gonna be optional. I sincerely doubt Miyamoto would force it on anyone. A lot of people are probably gonna prefer the dogfighting. And if there IS heli combat in single-player, it's either gonna be the player switching modes, or having an AI handle one of the roles.