Toxic

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I feel the first step, for me at least, is to admit my own involvement in things. I was one of those guys seething with anger yesterday, throwing around insults in private. While on some level I don't regret sticking up for something I believe in, there's absolutely no doubt that I went about doing so as poorly as possible. It's not that I let it become personal that was the problem; on a forum so tightly knit, everything's a little personal. It's almost that I didn't let it become personal enough; I didn't remember that the person opposite me wasn't merely some strawman for me to beat, but a flesh and blood friend of mine. I did the most unpardonable thing in debate: I forgot I was talking to people.

So I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the way I went about things in the thread, I'm sorry for the rather poor things I've said in privater corners. I'm sorry I acted like an animal instead of a human being. I'm not sure that I could ever quite get forgiveness on the part of the people I've wronged, given that several of them left in the chaos, but I refuse to sit atop an ivory tower and pretend I was anything but detestable. I'm sorry.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Ok since my edit got lost thanks to the post removals.

Regardless as to your ethical/moral stance on something.

Unless there was an insane case like that idiot from a few years ago who decided to openly admit and post evidence that they had stolen items from ebay sellers and posted details on how to do it.

Why did people feel it was perfectly fine to accuse someone criminal activity and in some cases abuse them when there was absolutely nothing done to justify it at all?

[Xenos]

I've only been here for a couple years, and while I don't see everything that goes on around the forum, I can't help but feel this underlying sense of distrust between a lot of people here. Everyone has their cliques, everyone has their preferences, it's all part of being human. But the intensity some of these debates can rise to go well beyond how you should handle debating with another respectful human being. And even if they're not being mature about a topic, people shouldn't be using that as a justification for attacking of character, or passive-aggressive use of the statuses, or indirect, snide remarks or comments about someone when they have their back turned.

 

It's this unhealthy way of being indirect I see all the time, and this leads to confusion, misinformation, and the like. If you have a problem with someone, why not just pass on a PM? You can get to the heart of the matter without any further delay, and both members can get some closure on something, especially if this topic is one that mods see as unnecessary, and needs to be shut down publicly. There's always a way to talk something out with everyone here. There's honestly, no need to be so upset at any given subject or person here, and we shouldn't condone members or mods being a dick to someone because the person they were being a dick to happened to be a dick.

 

idk just how I feel

[Tani Coyote]

Why did people feel it was perfectly fine to accuse someone criminal activity and in some cases abuse them when there was absolutely nothing done to justify it at all?

As was mentioned, lots of misinformation coupled with other things. Autosaver omitted a lot of details that probably would have changed the reaction, and only mentioned them after the wave of criticism hit.

[Nepenthe]

Something I want to add onto what Azoo said about moderation- aside from reconciling personal feelings about people and subjects in order to do this job- is that there is always a general bit of ambiguity that is being acted upon. We rarely have a chance to moderate to the letter of the law because, for one, we're individuals with autonomy and allowed our own judgement into a situation, and also we recognize situations usually tend to violate the spirit of things rather than what is actually written down in law, which makes it more difficult to make a clear-cut decision about these kinds of situations. Indeed, times in the past when we have actually followed what's written in the rules in regards to dispensing warnings, we've been chewed out for being too harsh by people who literally have no idea the information we have access in staff forums and the system, nor the conversations we have with each other and administration about what to do, or even what the rules actually entail on this site.

 

We're either too slow in our discussion to get something down and thus are at fault for leaving the forum to such a mess, or we're too quick and judgmental in our dishing out and we're assholes. It seems to me that there is practically no middle ground to even achieve anymore because people are more quick to call us shit than to give us or administration solutions, and my personal attempts at trying to explain to people- both on site in the statuses and in the SSMB Skype chat- how we work and to foster a conversation in order to better bridge those gaps in understanding that naturally happen have largely fallen on deaf ears. To me, no one actually cared and either dismissed me or- at worse- trolled me. Trying to reconcile keeping the forum together to please people who are both influential and don't like you nor even care to like you, and to please your administrators who expect you to do your job to some degree is like trying to balance spinning plates while on a bucking horse at this point.

 

Even now as we discuss this, and we recognize that people- not just members but staff too- are angry and mad and exhausted, we have no real idea what we can do within our powers to address the specific issue that has been brought up in the thread, yet there seems to be an implication that we have to do something and are the ones fully responsible for taking those reins. Again, I can't moderate people's passion, cynicism, or outrage if those things don't extend to breaking a rule. I can't change people's attitudes, as much as I'd like to. It's almost like being asked to be a miracle worker, or to at least be a babysitter and micromanage the gossip and in-jokes of people that's going around, but I'd rather give you guys more credit to again hash out your own problems like adults.

 

In short, we want to help as best we can. We don't like it when you guys are upset, but we simply don't know how to nor even if this is something we should address from the angle of moderation, due in no small part to people making the absolute worst assumptions about us whenever we actually do make a decision.

[MamboCat]

I wasn't around yesterday but I popped on here this afternoon by chance and saw a buncha stuff in the statuses. Heated debate in a discussion forum I understand, but sometimes I feel it can edge over into personal territory. I don't just mean here on this forum, but in general. When money comes into it, it makes it worse; it's a sensitive topic for some, it's impolite for others and it just makes people behave in really ugly ways.

 

Personally speaking as a former mod on STCO I think that perhaps the mods should apply the same rules to statuses as they do to the forum in general if it's not a thing already; if people are spreading shit about a thread in a shoutbox then IMO it's perfectly fine to say "take this to PM, any more on this and warnings will be issued." Because to me with 20/20 vision on this it seems like the statuses escalated the issue while a heated debate was going on. Almost like a crowd gathering around an accident, everyone wants to know what's happening.

 

Sure mods aren't here to police opinions, but they should be allowed to keep things civil. I've noticed over the years that the status bar seems to get away with a lot of stuff that the main forum doesn't, is all. BAN HAMMER THE LOT!

[Badnik Mechanic]

Personally speaking as a former mod on STCO I think that perhaps the mods should apply the same rules to statuses as they do to the forum in general if it's not a thing already;

That's just the thing, they are, yet it was practically open season from what I saw and from hat people havn't yet removed from the status' last night.

From what I've seen, I'm not surprised people have left over this or the fact it was the last straw, it was ugly and near a free for all.

At one point people were accusing him of stealing money from his family, I've seen the post where he says they didn't know about the purchases, but had authorised him to use their card, again, nothing wrong with doing that at all. Yet, people felt it was ok to throw this stuff at him?

[Gabz Girl]

I only just came back from a trip to London yesterday and was too tired to post much on SSMB last night. I come online this morning and I'm shocked at what happened in the Videogame Deals topic, I truly am. To think that members like Blue Blood, Komodin and Solkia, members who have had a great impact on these forums are leaving is just mind blowing to me. I'm glad I wasn't part of that discussion.

 

To be honest, even before I went to London I haven't really been on SSMB that much and I think it's because of three things; first and foremost is personal life, second is there's not much to talk about on these forums lately (since no new Sonic game) and third...arguments and personal shit going on between members. The latter especially makes me feel uncomfortable, like I don't wanna be around because I got nothing to do with it.

 

I'll stick around the forums, I'm not leaving anytime soon. But I really hope the atmosphere here changes for the better, especially after all that drama last night.

[Sean]

Since I was mentioned in this thread I want to make one thing clear: I sure as fuck do not have special privileges or treatment that none of you possess. I straight up asked Nep what would happen if I said a particular thing or replied in a certain way, and she very bluntly told me I would get a strike without question, which she mentioned in her post in the previous page. I take responsibiity for my actions and fully believe I deserve whatever course of action the mods see fit, regardless of my own beliefs and mindset.

[MamboCat]

That's just the thing, they are, yet it was practically open season from what I saw and from hat people havn't yet removed from the status' last night.

From what I've seen, I'm not surprised people have left over this or the fact it was the last straw, it was ugly and near a free for all.

 

I just wanna make it clear I'm not attempting to backseat mod here... just saying what I'm seeing. My Two Koruna and what not.

[SSF1991]

Whatever happened to respect? Because I see less and less of it on the internet every day.

 

And I really don't want SSMB to have the same fate.

[Nepenthe]

That's an example where people need to air their problems with one another in private. We can't be expected to be babysitters for issues like that and on top of that actually make decisions about such public squabbles without inviting even further controversy for handling a situation wrong somehow.

[Tani Coyote]

As Nepenthe says, issues between members should largely be handled like a legal dispute, I think.

Try and work out disagreements between yourselves in private if not in public. If that doesn't work, we're always here as the courts to make a final decision.

I think a lot of issues would be resolved if we all beat the idea we're talking to other human beings into our head, though. It's no secret it's a lot easier to say "fuck you" to someone over the internet than in person... for most people at least.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Alright. I guess it's time to throw up my thoughts. 

 

Honestly, I think the whole thing might be some overreacting and something else entirely. Honestly, what I saw yesterday was a bunch of members who completely disregarded the one big rule around here. Common Respect.

 

I don't care if it was the game deals drama, or the SSMB tabloid bullshit or the statuses or whatever. I'm not picking sides either because I'm honestly thinking both sides are at fault in a whole bunch of various situations. From the Rise of Lyric mess a few months back to this kind of bullshit. I honestly can't help but feel that might be one of the big issues of SSMB right now. That a lot of our common respect has gone. 

 

We're a community, we should be able to debate and whatever but as a community, we should trying our best to keep some kind of level of respect. Not jumping to conclusions, not jumping to insults and whatever else. Yesterday was like a full on assault of insults and a total disregard of respect for anyone. 

 

I have to agree that some members seem to take mods for granted to be honest. I mean no offence but either they aren't strict enough, or they're too strict or if they actually dare to give their opinion on something, it's labelled as unprofessional. There's just no middle ground to be found with some people.

 

Trust me, I'm not stranger to debates going sour around here either. As I've mentioned before, I try to keep a common level of respect in debates only for that to be thrown back into my face and on one occasion, a member who I won't mention attempted to get me hit with a warning strike or the ban hammer because I actually debated him.

 

Some people seriously just take these to personally. I mean at the end of the day, we're a forum based around a fast hedgehog and this board can also possibly have younger members around here. Which for the record, we aren't setting a good example by getting totally pissed off at each other and flinging bullshit and insults at one another.

 

The final straw which showed how bad it could get had to be the whole bullshit with that SSMB tabloid where that basically degenerated to stupid bullcrap and insults towards other members.

 

Can some please explain to me how that is showing some kind of common respect to anyone? By insulting them? Behind their back no less? It's just not cool guys. I mean it seriously isn't.

 

Personally, I'll admit, I felt like a lost a little respect for SSMB yesterday, but after a day passed and things went on, I felt a bit better. At the end of the day, we're all people and we're all part of this community. We're going to get into arguments, it's just how things are. But we need to keep in mind that as a community, we need to keep a level of respect for one another, and not to take debates so personally because yesterday was a prime example of how bad things can get when this happens. 

 

Hopefully we can try make things at least a little more positive around here from this point onwards, especially with things like Movie Night and Game Night trying to bring SSMB members together to have some fun.

 

In the end guys, we have to keep in mind that we're all individuals, and we all have opinions. There's absolutely no excuse for insults, basically disallowing others opinions, and taking debates over a blue hedgehog who runs fast while his 8 year old flying fox friend invents massive machines out of paperclips so personally. 

[Tani Coyote]

Fortunately there is the block button in worst case scenarios where members just can't be put in the same room with each other.

Failing that there is the option of banning for the largest troublemakers. Though as I mentioned, this is only a partial solution; the overall atmosphere sitting in the "not breaking the rules but still negative" is something we can do nothing about short of turning into a police state.

[Willsy]

I personally think that the situation yesterday spiraled out of control and not for a justified reason either. Whether or not the person in question was wrong really is not of any relevance compared the reactions that people had. I feel that this could have been avoided had the debate not lasted as long as it did, or if it was relegated to private messaging. At the end of the day, the specifics were an off site topic anyway.

I can see why people would raise concern over this, but the debate lasted for too long and in that time just escalated and something that was not that big of an issue in hindsight grew into something ugly.

[Tornado]

In addition to the more thorough explanations that have been given in the proper thread, I'm going to address this here in the hopes that it stops being brought up even though people were asked to stop bringing it up and posts bringing it up were already moved once:

So why did and where so many people actively saying he was committing theft and posting some outright insane claims about him stealing when he hadn't done anything of the sort?

Can someone explain why that was allowed to happen?

Why did people feel it was perfectly fine to accuse someone criminal activity and in some cases abuse them when there was absolutely nothing done to justify it at all?

Why did people feel it was perfectly fine to accuse someone criminal activity and in some cases abuse them when there was absolutely nothing done to justify it at all?

People, which incidentally includes three members of the moderation staff, accused Autosaver of unethical and/or illegal activity because there was, and in one particular instance remains, a reasonable belief that Autosaver committed or will commit unethical and/or illegal behavior in his actions with Best Buy. To think that members should not take issue with that after Autosaver began (in their eyes) flaunting it to them publicly is absurd.

 

 

 

 

 

What is unacceptable, however, and I'm going to state this as concisely as possible, is you undermining the moderation staff on this issue. Intentionally misrepresenting what happened regarding Autosaver in order to push your own ethical beliefs, and doing so after being asked to stop, doesn't do anything but continue the cycle of toxicity perceived on these forums that this very thread is about.

 

No one accused Autosaver of anything without basis. The basis of those accusations were already explained in this thread by Nepenthe before you said anything in this thread.

No one attacked Discoid's views over the issue without basis. Him leaving is his own choice, and if he wants to throw around a transparent persecution complex in the mix that is his own problem. There was one person directly arguing with Discoid in Autosaver's thread, and Discoid was the one who would have none of it and went so far as to post in Ogilvie's split thread just to tell Ogilvie that he was wasting his breath. All of this was explained in this thread by Nepenthe before you said anything in this thread. And quite frankly, and I say this as someone who felt I was good friends with Discoid (to the extent that certain members have even tried to turn other members against me for supposed leniency), if he's going to enter an ethics argument saying things like this:

Kind of a funny stipulation there though is that he knows his own mother and father better than you fucking do. So maybe instead of riding his dick on account of white knighting for his mom or some shit you ease up and let him live his life?

Good riddance.

 

No one on the moderation staff purposely looked the other way as Autosaver and Discoid had their posts ripped apart. I was at a fucking Memorial Day party. Nepenthe was playing a game all day. And yet we were both aware of what was going on in the thread, and discussed what best to do with Ogilvie before he split the drama from the sales thread. The extent of my moderation actions yesterday was removing the coy thread title Autosaver's topic somehow ended up with mocking the whole debate; but Sean asked point blank what would happen if he got personal over the issue, and Nepenthe told him point blank that we would strike him. This was also explained in this thread by Nepenthe before you said anything in this thread.

 

 

 

And claiming otherwise, that the moderation staff purposely let Autosaver get attacked for no reason, despite claiming to be knowledgeable of what happened is unacceptable.

[DBZHedgy]

I feel like the key is just to remain calm when discussing and to pay attention to how relatively temperamental you are or how temperamental you're getting.

 

And I know what you're thinking. I should literally be the LAST person saying anything about calming down with heated debate because of my first few weeks or so in the Official Sonic 2006 Topic. Like seriously, I facepalm when I go back and read those because not only were they poorly presented argument, but I acted like a completely spoiled brat who basically uttered:

 

with every word I used. I was pretty much the embodiment of said toxicity in that topic. (like that historical reference that got me 2 strikes, I die inside everytime I think about that. I honestly don't know what I was thinking) I am dead serious when I tell you that I am utterly shocked and surprised I've made it this far without being banned altogether.

 

Overtime though, I feel like I've been slowly but surely climbing the ladder and driving myself out of that negative vibe, from a personal perspective anyway. And I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this either. I remember Sami saying something really cool and level-headed recently that gave me a really heartwarming feeling of progression. 

[i totally forgot to like that until just now though ;]

 

Regardless of this though, I can still find myself getting pretty riled up in discussion, but I feel like it's much MUCH rarer at this point when compared to my first few pages of posts. Don't get me wrong though, I'd still get pretty angry if someone just came up and straight up said I was stupid or something along those lines, but I've been able to handle that pretty well all the same. 

Even if someone has to insult me or whatever, I'm still willing to let bygones be bygones since it was pretty much in the heat of discussion, and it can be forgiven. I don't really hold grudges.

 

So if I, one of the most rage/cringe inducing people on SSMB can change, I'm pretty sure everyone else can keep calm. Most people did in the 06 topic after all, so it can't be that hard can it?

[Autosaver]

As others have been pointing out, this specific event wasn’t really the reason why people have been upset. All it did was make people realize what has been going on with the community lately and how out of place people have been feeling. The people that left are gone and don’t have their opinion in here with Sami being an exception. It made me want to write up a post too.

 

Personally I think the moderation team was one sided on this specific event. I don’t care if people view me as morally or ethically corrupt but to have a flood of members harass me in the statuses with no one stepping in seems incredibly odd. Shauna as a moderator actually made a topic about how the moderation team was going to be stricter on people “bitching out” other members in the status feeds. I get that some were busy but I don’t really understand how multiple moderators were able to write walls of texts but weren’t able to write a quick status update.

 

 

To get back to the point on the moderation team being one sided, I feel like none of them took action because of that. As others have been pointing out, it was basically a free-for-all lynch mob. I’m not saying that the moderation team was condoning bad behavior. I’m saying that with the time they had they were focusing on the actual argument and not what people were doing. Azoo came in late and finally put his foot down but I also believe that was handled the wrong way.

 

We got an event that basically tore the community in half with tons of members breaking rules and the best decision was to move the discussion to “Ethics in Commerce”? A lot of us wanted to move on from it and placed our concerns that it was going to make people who participated in the drama feel incredibly awkward. I checked the thread and I got brought up and got accused of stealing along with committing fraud. I wrote up a pretty lengthy post about the issue I had with the thread but then I deleted that and just acted like a sarcastic asshole. I get that Oggy was a bit bored and wanted to keep discussing business but considering that it was a direct continuation of all the drama was it the best decision to keep going? Why didn’t the moderators or even the administrators just put their foot down and let everyone chill?

 

Sami brought up an important point. A similar drama fest happened and Sami made a topic to continue discussing. The moderators put down their foot and said it didn’t need to continue. Yet, when a moderator got so heavily involved with it and did the same it’s perfectly acceptable. Even then if there HAD to be a discussion on it I think the community could do it without tying it to what happened before.

 

http://board.sonicstadium.org/user/2378-sami/

 

On the community side, I just don’t understand. I’ve been friends with many of you and we’ve been in many engaging conversations. I’ve gotten into pretty serious arguments before with the likes of Hoggy, Blue Blood, and Tornado yet I never saw them harass me or shit talk me. I get that the situation wasn’t exactly clear but no matter what the situation is, I don’t think that means people should be able to harass me. Apparently there was some incredibly mean stuff that was going on off-site which got brought up here multiple times. Why do I want to be part of a community that in times of drama will crucify you?

 

I’m not saying that I can’t handle criticism. There’s a very big difference between breaking multiple site rules and having an opinion. As others in this thread have constantly pointed out, no matter what actually happened on my side should give anyone free roam to “abuse” me. How can you justify this? Please don’t say you were misinformed or that it wasn’t clear. That’s not an excuse! I guess you can say I set myself up to get crucified but I really don’t like the general idea of victim blaming. I was asking for it, right?
 

If insulting people and going behind their backs is the way the community wants to handle drama, then so be it. This is not something I want to be a part of. This isn’t even directly tied to what happened, I see this all the time in the statuses. Got into an argument with someone? Let’s just subtly hint at them and say some incredibly rude shit about them. No one will notice even though it’s blatantly obvious. That is /not/ OK. If I can handle arguments without resorting to harassment and shit talking, you can to. That is actually why the original status thread by Shauna popped up. It used to happen all the time and I can safely say it’s as bad if not worse than what it was before.

 

As I said before, this isn’t a sentiment shared specifically by me nor is it exclusive to what happened yesterday. It’s an on-going issue that blew up like a balloon and finally burst. I don’t think anyone here was happy with the situation.

 

So yeah, peace out. I know there’s a lot of good members on here. I hope you guys can keep the community tight and fix whatever issues there may be. I’m sure new members will join over the years so the loss of several members won’t be too impacting in the long run. You can still talk to us on Skype and Steam or whatever if you need to.

[MamboCat]

I agree. Maybe you guys could close off certain discussion topics or something in order to help increase the amount of positive/constructive posts. Sort of like how SA3 topics aren't really allowed lol - but that's already slipping into bad territory, isn't it?

 

I've seen threads being locked temporarily here before, if that's what you mean. So the mods do have that option already.

 

I think tbh when a topic gets too unpleasant it's acceptable for the mods to close it for a while. Still as I thought before, the statuses are a problem too. I really think in a case like this, perhaps they should be temporarily closed too. Just to stop the spread of "what happened?" and repeating the same information over and over.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

The thing is, that status updates thread was made in 2011. The mod team is completely different from then to now. So it's most likely they forgot or didn't know its existence until you brought it up.

[Carbo]

I get that Oggy was a bit bored and wanted to keep discussing business but considering that it was a direct continuation of all the drama was it the best decision to keep going? Why didn’t the moderators or even the administrators just put their foot down and let everyone chill?

I did ask for this actually. Specifically back in the thread when I moved Ogilvie and Hog's posts I asked to keep specific member intentions out of the equation for what is a discussion thread that was actually of pursued interest about the subject.

But people seemed to have missed the memo on that part, and quite frankly, I'm pretty sure there's no much recourse left in it, so yeah. That topic is looking at a time-out.

 

Sami brought up an important point. A similar drama fest happened and Sami made a topic to continue discussing. The moderators put down their foot and said it didn’t need to continue. Yet, when a moderator got so heavily involved with it and did the same it’s perfectly acceptable. Even then if there HAD to be a discussion on it I think the community could do it without tying it to what happened before.

http://board.sonicst...user/2378-sami/

I've made this clear in the original topic and I'm going to be as extra clear on this point now because that part seems to have been lost in translation among all the flawed analogies people try to relate back to it - the reason that thread was locked was because for the most of the part members who were leveling the complaints were in a perpetual deadlock with constant accusations and complaints leveled at Nepenthe for upholding a stipulation that ultimately did not actually matter up until a choice we had to double back on. Nothing was gained what-so-ever from that topic other than repeating the 3 status pages worth of back-and-forth between members and moderators who had made their point, and probably amassing a few clicks on the like button. No one actually bothered to open up discussion with an admin in order to level back on whether moderator handling was appropriate or should have been re-evalued internally among the higher ups, and that is not to say that we didn't actually consider rethinking what the topic was asking for. This is something people still fail to grasp.

The topic that people "encouraged" Discoid to make was locked because the root of the conversation's circumstance was already flawed from it's general inception. This goes the same for you being made a target in the Business Ethics topic but it was left open with the general credence that this was a topic of discussion that had only connotations rooted in your dilemma but another basis of outgoing discussion entirely. And frankly, that topic is now failing for similar reasons why leaving that Staff Transparency topic open would have failed if it were left open. There might have been a discussion but it was approached from the wrong angle from it's outset, and at this point I've decided to lock and remove the Business Ethics topic entirely since it's a pretty good example of what happens when you try to pose a legitimate question at the completely wrong juncture.

There was a potential point there but now it's lost in the static haze.

[Tornado]

Personally I think the moderation team was one sided on this specific event. I don’t care if people view me as morally or ethically corrupt but to have a flood of members harass me in the statuses with no one stepping in seems incredibly odd. Shauna as a moderator actually made a topic about how the moderation team was going to be stricter on people “bitching out” other members in the status feeds. I get that some were busy but I don’t really understand how multiple moderators were able to write walls of texts but weren’t able to write a quick status update.

 

 

Here is the entire first page of SSMB moderator reports. I'm pretty sure that is every report made in the last week or so:

 

 

I don't follow status updates. Even more rarely do I make one. Half the time it is just some meme or whatever that is quickly pushed off of the front list within ten minutes.

 

 

 

So my question is, as it pertains me personally, the person who was reading through the thread and saw Ogilvie's followup thread and was at a party until late at night so had all day to think of responses to both threads (then made a couple, drove home, made a couple other ones and went to bed); how am I supposed to keep track of member harassment and attacks and whatever in status updates when nothing is reported until 24 hours after the fact? How am I supposed to take action against some greater rule breaking when I don't even see the original thread in question until a second thread had already been spun off?

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

So my question is, as it pertains me personally, the person who was reading through the thread and saw Ogilvie's followup thread and was at a party until late at night so had all day to think of responses to both threads (then made a couple, drove home, made a couple other ones and went to bed); how am I supposed to keep track of member harassment and attacks and whatever in status updates when nothing is reported until 24 hours after the fact? How am I supposed to take action against some greater rule breaking when I don't even see the original thread in question until a second thread had already been spun off?

 

I don't know about the others, but I wouldn't report when there were several moderators already involved. That's just me though.

[Dr. Crusher]

It's no coincidence that I've not been as active on here as I used to be. I don't feel all that comfortable on here anymore, and while message forums in general may be prone to their fair share of unpleasant events, I don't think that should be used as an excuse for SSMB's own, increasingly obvious problems. (And neither should the lack of Sonic news, because I'll be the first to tell you that SSMB is barely any different in atmosphere with or without new game info.)

 

The heated arguments are of course one of the reasons for why I've been feeling weary. And I do consider them arguments by the way, I don't buy them as "debates", because if they were merely debates, then I would probably be more willing to post more often. However, it's definitely not just that on it's own, there are also plenty of other factors, including but not limited to constant elitism, constant entitlement, plenty of arrogance and hostility, rampant cynicism and negativity taken to downright unwelcoming levels more often than not, obvious public biases (usually negative) regarding specific individuals on the site, and loads of double standards and general hypocrisy all around. Any of these qualities on their own would already provide a major problem to tackle, or at least they would already have a good chance of rubbing potential newcomers the wrong way, but for every single one of these factors and thensome to combine in the one package? Is it any wonder that some folk feel a little alienated? There's only so much of all this that a person can take, and for me, I'd say I already had enough of it a while ago.

 

Also, there are a few discussions on here that I can't help but wonder if they really... belong here, if you get me? I know this is more of a general forum conundrum, and I'm not saying that certain subjects should just be outright banned all of a sudden, but there are some serious topics that, no disrespect to the members who make them, can feel rather jarring for a forum that is ultimately about the adventures of a blue hedgehog. In other words, the Personal Discussion sub-section aside, is a Sonic forum the sort of place on the web in which a discussion about such-and-such would work best in?

 

But back to the main part, it's all just too much for me now. It's always the same thing on here. The same arguments, the same sarcasm, the same cynicism, the same everything. Everything's personal, members get away with things that they shouldn't really get away with, too many people... seem angry all the time I guess, and the arguments and general hostility pretty much dominate the whole forum. I always stuck around in spite of my feelings because I would hope that this place would eventually get it's act together sooner or later, but if you ask me, nothing ever seems to truly improve on here. I've said more than once in the past that the Sonic fanbase irritates me far more than anything the franchise itself has ever done, and I'd be lying if I said that SSMB isn't one of the reasons for why I feel that way. As someone who was a member of the SEGA Forums from 2010 to 2012, I honestly think that SSMB and the SEGA Forums have become close to indistinguishable at this point. The only reason for why I don't regret becoming a member of SSMB in the first place is because over time, I have met a few members who I've managed to create close bonds with, and nowadays I can't imagine a life without them.