Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam

[Kuzu]

They must like her if she's been in three games straight, she's had the most appearances outside of the main characters from the franchise.

[Gabz Girl]

Seemed obvious from the start this was more like M&L, but it's still got Paper Mario's abilities and such.

 

I want the names of the people on the development that do. Just to see if they exist.

 

I like Starlow... o-o *hides*

[Eitarou]

Dream team had multiple Luigis what your point

You mean those Luigis that were created by Luigi's subconscious and are in no way their own individual and literally exist for no other reason other than to solve puzzles and do attacks?

Not the same thing.

Paper Mario is a person, the Luiginary works aren't.

[Soniman]

So is anyone going to address the idea that all these Mario subseries are in diffrent universes?

 

Like I just thought that M&L!Mario and Paper!Mario were the same person? Going on diffrent adventures and stuff, so it's kinda weird to see it confirmed that there doesnt exist a Mario Multiverse in a way

[Salamander]

From the looks of the footage, the game seems to be trying to remedy some of the complaints from previous games. EXP is rewarded after battle, meaning they actually matter now, and the tutorials appear to be skippable. My only concern is the quest structure, I'd prefer a more open overworld ala the previous M&L games. Hopefully it isn't too limiting.

 

Wait, hold on, I missed this.  Quest-based structure and no open overworld?  Where do they mention this?  Because that could be a deal-breaker for me.  Edit: I think this might just be for the E3 demo, unless they said something specifically to the contrary.

 

My only real gripe - the game being called "Paper Jam Bros." in Europe. I realise it carries on from "Dream Team Bros." (another weird name change) but it just totally spoils the "Paper Jam" pun. Eh, I'll get over it.

 

Seriously?  They're doing that nonsense again?  Why... why.  Like with Dream Team Bros. I just assumed there was some copyright issue, but what mistaken interpretation exactly do they think they are correcting?  Nintendo's European localisation has been getting weird lately, what with this and the arbitrary name changes to classic, out-of-copyright literary characters in Codename S.T.E.A.M.

[Ducktor Naldush]

So is anyone going to address the idea that all these Mario subseries are in diffrent universes?

 

Like I just thought that M&L!Mario and Paper!Mario were the same person? Going on diffrent adventures and stuff, so it's kinda weird to see it confirmed that there doesnt exist a Mario Multiverse in a way

I addressed this before. I's somewhat of a letdown for me, since this means that my favourite character (Luigi) isn't the same guy that became Mr. L, had Mario travel through his dreams, and saved him from King Boo, but three different individuals.

[Conando]

I don't find it all that surprising when Paper Mario started taking the whole paper thing very seriously starting in TTYD. I don't find it surprising, but I also find it kind of wild that it actually is some sort of multiverse thing despite Miyamoto saying it wasn't really a thing. So what, maybe Paper Mario's world is actually just stories written by someone in the actual Mario World?

 

Also I pray to god the final boss isn't as tedious as Dream Team's was. I REALLY liked Dream Time, but that final boss shouldn't have existed. The penultimate one was way better.

[Marcello]

Dream Team Bros was weird, but I think Paper Jam Bros works decently, to be honest.

[Salamander]

I'm afraid I disagree.  Dream Team Bros. at least made something resembling grammatical sense, but Paper Jam Bros. ruins the "jam" pun.

[Marcello]

Paper Mario is jokingly supposed to be the paper jam, and he's their bro. Works fine to me. Or what are you thinking about here?

 

Dream Team Bros just sounds weird. Had it been Dream Bros or something it would've been fine.

[Salamander]

I do agree that "Dream Team Bros." is redundant and shouldn't have been done, but for Paper Jam, "Jam" is also being used to refer to the equivalent of a musical jam session - something like a party, everyone turning up to do their own thing.  So it's a paper jam in the sense of paper being stuck in a printer, and a paper jam in the sense of all the Paper characters turning up to Jam with the Mario & Luigi ones.  Once you add "Bros." on the end, I feel that the second aspect is lost.

[Doctor MK]

Oh Nintendo, only you and your strange localisation decisions could still manage to cause controversy over one of the only games that everyone seems to be looking forward to from your E3 presentation

 

At the end of the day, whether it's "Paper Jam" or "Paper Jam Bros.", it doesn't really matter and it's all the same basic game - I just wish there was some sort of consistency between the two English language versions, and as a gamer in Europe, I always get the feeling we're getting the short end of the deal because these games are almost always just referred to as "Dream Team" or "Paper Jam", never with the "Bros." as well. Just seems like a pointless little change.

 

But yeah, does anyone else get the feeling from this that Paper Mario as a standalone series is kinda... threatened? They're clearly aware that Sticker Star received a lot of criticism but the fact that this is very much "Mario & Luigi co-starring Paper Mario" makes it almost seem a bit like life support for a franchise that hasn't had a traditional RPG game of its own in a decade. It's almost as if they don't know what to do with Paper Mario any more, even though all they have to do is go back to where they started.

 

I mean, I'm still very very hyped for this game either way and it's almost a dream crossover that I didn't even realise I wanted, it just doesn't necessarily seem to bode well in the long run for the wafer thin plumber. I hope I'm just looking into it far too much and this game will absolutely solidify that there's still demand out there for a proper Paper Mario RPG.

[Gabz Girl]

Maybe we'll get our Paper Mario HD on the NX? I think it might be too late to have it on Wii U now.

 

Anyway, I forgot to comment on the European title and I agree that it doesn't sound so great with Bros. at the end. Dream Team Bros. I can ignore, but Paper Jam Bros. is weird. O_o

 

NoE have been really annoying with their localisations lately, changing trophy descriptions in Smash Bros and outright changing names in Codename S.T.E.A.M. even though the audio still says their real names!

[Tails spin]

Oh Nintendo, only you and your strange localisation decisions could still manage to cause controversy over one of the only games that everyone seems to be looking forward to from your E3 presentation

 

At the end of the day, whether it's "Paper Jam" or "Paper Jam Bros.", it doesn't really matter and it's all the same basic game - I just wish there was some sort of consistency between the two English language versions, and as a gamer in Europe, I always get the feeling we're getting the short end of the deal because these games are almost always just referred to as "Dream Team" or "Paper Jam", never with the "Bros." as well. Just seems like a pointless little change.

 

But yeah, does anyone else get the feeling from this that Paper Mario as a standalone series is kinda... threatened? They're clearly aware that Sticker Star received a lot of criticism but the fact that this is very much "Mario & Luigi co-starring Paper Mario" makes it almost seem a bit like life support for a franchise that hasn't had a traditional RPG game of its own in a decade. It's almost as if they don't know what to do with Paper Mario any more, even though all they have to do is go back to where they started.

 

I mean, I'm still very very hyped for this game either way and it's almost a dream crossover that I didn't even realise I wanted, it just doesn't necessarily seem to bode well in the long run for the wafer thin plumber. I hope I'm just looking into it far too much and this game will absolutely solidify that there's still demand out there for a proper Paper Mario RPG.

 

 

They probably are worried that newer  Paper Mario games wont be liked cuz of Sticker Stars reception so the backed ut up with the more well received M&L series. 

 

And honestly something tells me that after Prime Federation Forces reception Nintendo might rethink release another metroid game for a while 

[Cradily Lover]

This game is the only thing from E3 that I'm genuinely excited for, I love both the Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi series, and Dream Team filled the void that Sticker Star left in my heart. Hopefully this will do the same with the void created by the lack of a Wii U Paper Mario.

 

Regarding NOE's bizarre and often arbitrary localization decisions, yeah, I don't get it. I really don't understand why they feel a need to make their English translations different from the American ones. I mean, I understand changing words to their British spellings, but what was the point of changing all the trophy descriptions in Smash? What was the point of adding "Bros." to the end of Dream Team's name? What was the point of renaming Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon to just Luigi's Mansion 2?

 

The change that annoys me the most is how they're referring to all Magikoopas as Kamek now, giving the character nothing to differentiate him from his species. I mean I know it's more faithful to the original Japanese, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. They may as well rename Bowser "Koopa", if that's such a large priority.

 

Also, count me among the people that actually liked Starlow. She should have been playable in Mario Kart 8 over stupid made-up characters like Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina.

[Salamander]

Some of NoE's translation differences I think come down to them doing a separate English translation directly from the Japanese rather than just borrowing NoA's translation.  The weirdness comes in where they borrow the American translation and then make a bunch of tiny and seemingly arbitrary changes, as is the case with Codename S.T.E.A.M. and, apparently, Paper Jam.  Luigi's Mansion 2 I assume is a case of them thinking presenting it as a sequel would play better to the European market than it would to the American one, but who needs reminding that a game titled "Mario & Luigi" has brothers in it?

 

I do agree that the second-stringer role played by Paper Mario in this game is a little troubling in what it implies for the franchise.  Paper Mario was fine until they messed with the formula, but it seems increasingly like a Nintendo thing to treat a franchise like it's become unpopular when it's merely recent changes to it that are unpopular - see also Metroid.  They messed up Sticker Star, so Paper Mario is relegated to spin-offs; they messed up Other M, so Metroid is relegated to spin-offs.

[Doctor MK]

I do agree that the second-stringer role played by Paper Mario in this game is a little troubling in what it implies for the franchise.  Paper Mario was fine until they messed with the formula, but it seems increasingly like a Nintendo thing to treat a franchise like it's become unpopular when it's merely recent changes to it that are unpopular - see also Metroid.  They messed up Sticker Star, so Paper Mario is relegated to spin-offs; they messed up Other M, so Metroid is relegated to spin-offs.

 

What's perhaps also worrying is that - assuming Paper Jam technically counts as an entry in the Paper Mario series as well as the Mario & Luigi series - the number of Paper Mario games that aren't "true" Paper Mario games are now in the majority, outnumbering them three to two. Sure, this is a turn-based RPG too, but it's not really a proper Paper Mario game in the sense that there's no party members, it's all very much typical M&L gameplay, Paper Mario himself is reduced to being Player 3, and so on.

 

On the upside though, I suppose this crossover couldn't really work the other way around. Having Mario & Luigi suddenly invade the Paper Mario world would probably be a bit too one-sided to the other extreme - at least with Paper Jam we've got a blend of "real" and "paper" aesthetics, and you can't really force the M&L gameplay into the Paper Mario formula because it relies a lot more heavily on different field actions and characters working in tandem. Simply adding Paper Mario to the chain of Mario & Luigi though, yeah, that works a bit more seamlessly. So hopefully it's just a case of logistics rather than "we're relegating this series to the sidelines", even though there probably is an element of "we know one of these franchises is a lot more successful than the other right now".

 

On a side note, and a downside to it being in the M&L formula... for those out there who didn't like having to manually make both Mario and Luigi jump every time you wanted to do some platforming, having three characters to manually perform actions with now is going to be even more annoying!

[Mega]

I still don't get why they didn't keep the switch mechanic from Superstar Saga. It made things SO much easier when you could control the bros independently.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Super hyped for this. I just hope it's not as easy as BiS and DT. Those were WAYYYY too easy.

[Doctor MK]

So, random thought and I know it's way too early to say yet but... anyone think there'll be amiibo support for this game?

 

We've already seen with Mr Game & Watch that Nintendo are perfectly capable of making 2D amiibo figures - anyone else think we might even see a Paper Mario amiibo?

 

#PaperMario4Smash

[TrueBlue]

I think the Treehouse said that the X button works as an "all jump button" to make things more seamless?

[Tails spin]

So, random thought and I know it's way too early to say yet but... anyone think there'll be amiibo support for this game?

 

We've already seen with Mr Game & Watch that Nintendo are perfectly capable of making 2D amiibo figures - anyone else think we might even see a Paper Mario amiibo?

 

#PaperMario4Smash

Fun fact I voted for paper mario.

Cuz I wanted it to match his stage

[StaticMania]

I still don't get why they didn't keep the switch mechanic from Superstar Saga. It made things SO much easier when you could control the bros independently.

No it didn't, it was just there and actually switching bros. for use of different field moves was actually a bit more complicated than not having to switch at all. Controlling the bros independently doesn't make things easier since you couldn't force the separation, the game forced it on you.

[Kuzu]

Yea, the switch mechanic was only really there for the hand powerups and not much else, so them removing it at least makes sense. There just aren't a lot of segments where the brothers are separated since Superstar Saga, which is understandable given the focus of the series is on Mario & Luigi working together in tandem, so separating them kinda defeats that purpose.

[Mega]

I liked it because when a bro fell off a ledge, you could switch to them and bring them back up instead of having to make Mario go all the way down and start the platforming segment over again. +_+