Sonic Deserves to Die?

[Baraksha]

What if we are being overly positive about this?, I mean sure sonic may survived 06 , but that was 8 years ago, and over the years sonic has been getting more bad reputation until boom came , and I don't think we can say that he survive ROL yet, I mean that game just add to the sonic hate trend and I don't see many signs of people who still forgive sonic after this, which brings me to something else, you keep saying that the sonic fanbase is huge and will still support sonic, but I don't think it's huge as you guys say it is, sure I guess there is a big amount of people, but not that many, at least I didn't sew many of them, and by the looks of sega's sells lately, yeh, I don't think there are that many people who are willing to buy a any sonic game as it used to be, and things may just get worse

But im just throwing theories here to see what responses I get

Edited August 7, 2015 by Baraksha

[Diesel]

No one here believes Sonic will literally last until society collapses

If 06 and Boom couldn't kill this franchise, nothing will.

Yup, nobody here believes that.

[Nepenthe]

Yup, nobody here believes that.

Do you actually believe Johnny was being literal and thus believes Sega and Sonic will actually last thousands of years, or are you just being an asshole to me? I need to know so I can decide whether to strike and suspend you now or later for the flamebaiting you've been doing across several topics.

[Diesel]

You said until society collapses, not thousands of years. It's possible society won't even last thousands of years. As a matter of fact, society has arguably already collapsed.

To answer your specific question, judging by his post, it would appear he thinks Sonic is near invincible, which he isn't. Why would he say it if he didn't mean it?

Edited August 7, 2015 by Diesel

[azoo]

Jiminy Christmas, how do you even get by knowing you can and will make an argument off of literally everything you read.

[Nepenthe]

You said until society collapses, not thousands of years. It's possible society won't even last thousands of years. As a matter of fact, society has arguably already collapsed.

Judging by his post, it would appear he thinks Sonic is near invincible, which he isn't.

So basically you're just being really pedantic and trying to argue for the sake of arguing (as well as asserting opinions as fact again). Fair enough. I'd be salty too after the SA1 thread.

But I wasn't kidding about that warning. We've noticed you've been flamebaiting around in topics recently and we've gotten enough reports that staff has had to actually discuss this a little bit. We were leaning on just striking you, but since you decided to level your attitude at a mod- one who doesn't give a shit, no less- I've bumped that up to a strike and a two week suspension. When you come back, maybe you'll learn how to host a conversation with your fellow members without trying to assert your ego and how right you are all the time.

[blooob]

Today I saw a thread. A point of this thread is "Sometimes, I wish Sonic would die. Currently, Sonic Series (and Sega) have betrayed so many user's hope, expectation, and dream. Sonic fanbase is considered one of the worst fanbase in cultural industry, and so on...... Anyways, Do you feel like "Sonic should die?" I'll post my opinion after some days.

[Marcello]

No. I don't see what I would gain from if the series would disappear. I'd rather SEGA just get their shit together.

[AshGreninJovan]

Sonic will not be dead if Sega sells that franchise and Sonic Team to Nintendo or Sony. It may be effective.

[NoirSuede]

Sonic will not be dead if Sega sells that franchise and Sonic Team to Nintendo or Sony. It may be effective.

Oh God not this crap again.

Sega can't sell Sonic because he's their mascot. Imagine if McDonald sold Roland McDonald to Burger King, it would look ridiculous right ? Same applies here.

 

[Blacklightning]

No. I don't see what I would gain from if the series would disappear. I'd rather SEGA just get their shit together.

Pretty much. If it were most any other franchise I could maybe shrug it off and say "well whatever, there are other games I can play for the same kind of fix", but that's exactly the problem here - who the fuck else does a platforming game like Sonic does? There aren't many franchises out there that emphasise flow and slope physics together, even fewer that update anywhere near as regularly. Like it or not, Sonic is unique. The way it's sunk since Sega's fall from hardware is a shame, make no mistake about that, but for Sonic to disappear entirely would leave a void I fear practically nobody will bother to fill. Why not just... make it stop sucking instead?

[blooob]

Pretty much. If it were most any other franchise I could maybe shrug it off and say "well whatever, there are other games I can play for the same kind of fix", but that's exactly the problem here - who the fuck else does a platforming game like Sonic does? There aren't many franchises out there that emphasise flow and slope physics together, even fewer that update anywhere near as regularly. Like it or not, Sonic is unique. The way it's sunk since Sega's fall from hardware is a shame, make no mistake about that, but for Sonic to disappear entirely would leave a void I fear practically nobody will bother to fill. Why not just... make it stop sucking instead?

To be honest, I don't find Any unique features on(in) Sonic series. What is the unique feature of Sonic series? Speed? many racing game substitute this, Platforming? Super mario is pretty awesome substitute goods, Speed and platforming? = freedom planet. Even if Sonic series has unique system, Do you find any unique system from recent Sonic game?

[Place]

I actually don't know what's going on in here but if the last seventeen "is sonic dead" threads are anything to go by then we really aren't gaining anything of value by talking about this

Edited September 7, 2015 by Place

[Indigo Rush]

To be honest, I don't find Any unique features on(in) Sonic series. What is the unique feature of Sonic series? Speed? many racing game substitute this, Platforming? Super mario is pretty awesome substitute goods, Speed and platforming? = freedom planet. Even if Sonic series has unique system, Do you find any unique system from recent Sonic game?

 

Different games use different mechanics that other games also have. If we follow your logic, why would we play anything if another game has that one thing? It doesn't follow. You can't honestly expect us to take the notion seriously that I can get my fix of Sonic by playing Super Mario and F-Zero (which hasn't had a game in a while, but I imagine you'll tell me that other games are racers so why should I be upset, but I digress). 

Sonic (when designed properly) sees a unique combination of momentum-driven platforming with regards to how the player interacts with hills, ramps, slopes and loops, encouraging the player to maintain their speed so they can finish the level with as much loot as they can carry. The rings function not only as the token "shiny objects" to collect, but also operate as both health (Freedom Planet doesn't have this in the same way) and a score bonus. Then there are the pinball mechanics, where jumping on an enemy gives you a dynamic bounce (which Freedom Planet, by the way, doesn't have) to match the downhill rolling and spindashing mechanic (Freedom Planet also doesn't have this). There's also the utilization of exploration where some games will give you bonuses for exploring the level and finding alternate paths to take or using a different character to approach a platforming challenge, but they do so without denying the freedom to just dash along to their pleasure. Sonic CD and Sonic 3 & Knuckles excel at these especially.

And that's just following the Classic games. Then there are the features unique to Modern Sonic games like Sonic Unleashed or Sonic Colors with the boosting mechanics and the homing attack, however shallow they may be in comparison. Sonic as a whole offers a unique experience apart from any other platformer or... racing game (seriously?) and though others can imitate (Freedom Planet, Action Henk, Awesome Possum Kicks Dr Machino's Butt), but they can't really duplicate. Heck, even Sonic Team themselves can't quite get it right half the time anymore.

tl;dr watch this

Edited September 7, 2015 by Indigo Rush

[shadowthehedgehog2003]

I actually don't know what's going on in here but if the last seventeen "is sonic dead" threads are anything to go by then we really aren't gaining anything of value by talking about this

the mods seem to be okay with it. don't even think about going against their wishes, lest you get (rightfully imo) wrecked by a strike or two.

 

also to be on topic, sonic is irrelevant now. in the 90's he was cool, but now hes just a strange cartoon character that went out of style with the decade he was so strongly attached to. and also his games were always just okay, maybe the graphics and technology behind it was advanced but other-wise the games were just another platformer in a sea of platformers. i think he should be shelved in favor of shadow or silver, at least they tried to stay relevant .

 

- shadowthehedgehog2003

EDIT: Spelling

Edited September 7, 2015 by shadowthehedgehog2003

[Neo_Fire_Sonic]

If sonic dies, then sonic fan games can be made into real games, so its sorta a win-win if sonic stays alive or if he dies.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

To be honest, I don't find Any unique features on(in) Sonic series. What is the unique feature of Sonic series? Speed? many racing game substitute this, Platforming? Super mario is pretty awesome substitute goods, Speed and platforming? = freedom planet. Even if Sonic series has unique system, Do you find any unique system from recent Sonic game?

Do you not realize how fallacious that is comparing those three plaformers to each other and ignoring or making little effort to acknowledge that each one of those platformers are different from each other? 

For one, platforming is not a unique feature, it's an entire genre. That includes games like Ratchet and Clank, Kirby, Megaman, and plenty of other titles out there. Secondly, a racing game is not the same as a platformer - what you're doing is like comparing Megaman to Call of Duty or Halo because all of them use guns to shoot enemies. Super Mario for one requires more precision and timing than Sonic does - you can't jump on a Goomba or Koopa at an angle or hit them in the sides like Sonic can on a Motobug or a BuzzBomber, it would kill Mario (not counting 3D Mario games where this isn't the case).

And thirdly, while I find Freedom Planet to be a damn good successor to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you're ignoring the fact Freedom Planet has a greater emphasize on combat which allows for a much more complex ways of dealing with a greater range of enemy types compared to the much more simplistic way of Sonic Genesis platformers which emphasize using physics in order to get through the stage and less on combat. That's why Freedom Planet has a health bar so you can take multiple hits, that's why Freedom Planet doesn't have you take damage when an enemy simply touches you, and that's why Freedom Planet gives you more than one ability to take on these foes where as Sonic games on the Genesis would be screwed over trying to do the same thing without some of these adaptations Freedom Planet does. Not to mention that Freedom Planet is actually slower than the Sonic Genesis games by comparison, so speed is actually one of its lesser attributes. Sure, Lilac's invincible dash can make her move faster for a brief moment, but it's not the same as a spindash which allows you to stay in that form indefinitely - not to mention it would likely screw up FP's balance if it did do that.

And don't get me started on the level design, which wouldn't be anything Sonic could traverse the same way as the characters in Freedom Planet without changing a lot of how he plays. We can start with the fact that there's one stage that actually requires you to swim, an ability everyone with passing knowledge of Sonic knows that he is incapable of doing. Oh, and the boss battles, which would likely kill you really quickly without the other abilities of the characters given their placement, their abilities, and for many, their much more aggressive style of play akin to the games of Gunstar Heroes and Megaman X-ZX series.

If you're going to make comparisons like this, you can at least put forth the effort and and acknowledge the differences that make these different platformers unique. Sonic has is own unique differences from Freedom Planet and Mario - were that not the case, FP would never even have a similar base to follow on, nor would Sonic have anything worth considering to be Mario's rival in the first place during the Genesis Era.

Edited September 8, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Blacklightning]

To be honest, I don't find Any unique features on(in) Sonic series. What is the unique feature of Sonic series? Speed? many racing game substitute this.

...I'm sorry, did you seriously just compare a platforming game to a fucking racing game? Last I checked, cars can't actually jump.

In fact, this whole post not only distorts the concept of genre appeal, it completely misses the point of what Sonic is all about, which is kind of amazing in of itself because I even summed it up for you in just two words: flow and slope physics. Speed can be a byproduct of flow, but it's not the rule of thumb, contrary to what his public image gives off - flow is a means of keeping your momentum consistent by whatever means available to you, and in Sonic terms that typically means exploiting the features of the level itself. Slope physics, as it just so happens, also form a big part of that, as rolling down hills is an exploitation of level design in on itself. Speed is involved, but it's useless and even borderline annoying if it means constantly running into walls and off cliffs into bottomless pits.

Here's the thing - I don't play Sonic games for any one feature exclusively, I play them because I enjoy the sum of their parts. And I imagine I'm far from alone in feeling that way. Again, there are very few games out there that are even evocative of those parts simultaneously, let alone functionally similar. Freedom Planet and Fancy Pants Adventures are the only two games that come to mind, and of the two of them, Freedom Planet is an ascended fangame with a relatively long development time (so frankly, I think we'd be lucky to even see a sequel), and as far as I can discern from Google, FPA hasn't made a game since 2012. So who's left to make Sonic-esque games once the real deal bites it? Nobody. Absolutely fucking nobody. The style fades into relative obscurity, and everyone loses in the end.

Why on earth do you think there's anything to lose if Sega just makes Sonic games fun and true to themselves again? I don't think you ever answered that.

[blooob]

Ok. let's Assume (or acknowledge) that Sonic has unique features(I'll search more about that.) however. Do you think recent Sonic games(SLW, Boom, and runners) contain "unique features" that you said? Furthermore. Even if these games still have "unique features" Does that "unique features" are preferred by customers? I don't think so.

Eventually, Even if Sonic series has unique features, If customers doesn't prefer this feature, this franchise will die out. And it seems that few people prefer Sonic series' "unique features"

[Blacklightning]

Ok. let's Assume (or acknowledge) that Sonic has unique features(I'll search more about that.) however. Do you think recent Sonic games(SLW, Boom, and runners) contain "unique features" that you said? Furthermore. Even if these games still have "unique features" Does that "unique features" are preferred by customers? I don't think so.

Oh for fuck's sake.

This is literally besides the point. Nobody is asking Sega to make crap Sonic games. People want Sega to take what is unique about Sonic, traits they'd already liked Sonic for prior, and make good Sonic games with them. I don't know how this isn't getting through to you.

[blooob]

Oh for fuck's sake.

This is literally besides the point. Nobody is asking Sega to make crap Sonic games. People want Sega to take what is unique about Sonic, traits they'd already liked Sonic for prior, and make good Sonic games with them. I don't know how this isn't getting through to you.

Oh. then Let's think about it. Does Sega have capability to make good Sonic games that many people want? I'm sure that it's impossible. Sonic games won't meet customer's requirement because it(customer's requirement) is seperated

[Blacklightning]

Oh. then Let's think about it. Does Sega have capability to make good Sonic games that many people want? I'm sure that it's impossible. Sonic games won't meet customers requirement because it is seperated

Given that Sega has made good Sonic games in the past - many even immediately after games every bit as bad as Lyric, at that - why is this even a question? Of course they're capable of it. They just need to pull their heads out of their asses first.

[blooob]

Given that Sega has made good Sonic games in the past - many even immediately after games every bit as bad as Lyric, at that - why is this even a question? Of course they're capable of it. They just need to pull their heads out of their asses first.

So. You think that they "can" pull their heads out of their assets?. How?..

[----]

So. You think that they "can" pull their heads out of their assets?. How?..

How are you still a Sonic fan?

[Blacklightning]

I dunno, by looking back on the games they've made before that actually turned out good and were praised practically unanimously and continuing to make more games like that? It's not like it's somehow literally impossible for someone to get a clue and actually learn from their mistakes, or that Sega is somehow completely irredeemable at the same level as say, EA or Konami, who legitmately do need to be booted out of the gaming industry along with all their cash cows at the earliest possible convenience for deliberately treating their customers and developers like absolute shit.

Again, how is this not an option? How is having no games at all somehow preferable to just getting their act together and making good ones?