Undertale (PC, PS4, Switch) & Deltarune (PC DEMO)

[Candescence]

Well, sounds like you either you got neutral or you fucked up and forgot to erase all your save data properly after doing a genocide run.

[Sean]

Uh oh. Which ending didja get? XD Neutral? True Pacifist? Post-Genocide Pacifist? I MUST KNOW.

 

Neutral after going through the game not killing a single character. I legitimately believed that the "final boss" before the credits was just that before the flower's last bit of dialogue. Legitimately blew my mind that there was more to it than that, which I already thought was an incredibly fantastic climax and ending, and everything leading to the true pacifist ending just proved me wrong and surpassed my expectations tenfold.

 One of my favorite games for sure. Was well worth the hype.

[DiamondXBlitz]

I'm kind of scared if I should buy this game or not, like, my laptop isn't the BEST. Hardly can play TF2 without lag and such and its not because I have any internet problem. I know its a pixel game, but I just don't want to buy something I cant play....Maybe I should wait if it comes out on the WiiU or Xbone..IF.

[Mega]

I don't think you'll have any problems, tbh. Undertale is a pretty low memory consuming game. I had a few moments of lag, but they were fleeting and incredibly rare.

Also, the True Pacifist ending is the whole reason I don't wanna do a genocide run. It's just so perfect, and I don't wanna taint such a heartwarming finale. :c

[Sean]

I'm never going to do a genocide run. True pacifist is canon and that's what I want my personal experience of this game to be. I'll just watch a playthrough of it

[FriendBot]

I'm never going to do a genocide run. True pacifist is canon and that's what I want my personal experience of this game to be. I'll just watch a playthrough of it

Just watch this to see the differences in the Genocide Run, it ain't pleasant to see I'll tell you that much.

[JezMM]

I'm kind of scared if I should buy this game or not, like, my laptop isn't the BEST. Hardly can play TF2 without lag and such and its not because I have any internet problem. I know its a pixel game, but I just don't want to buy something I cant play....Maybe I should wait if it comes out on the WiiU or Xbone..IF.

The game is entirely 2D so it should play just fine, but if you want to be sure, you can try the demo here: http://undertale.com/demo.htm

The demo runs on an older version of the game as it was created a long time ago, but it should give a fairly decent idea.

[Dobkeratops]

Y'all pussies should still use the save generator I posted before to play the extra bosses. Puts you right before them so you won't have to touch the bad run itself in the slightiest. Feel free to youtube the actual run afterwards.

I won't press the issue any further but missing out on these battles is a huge disservice to the game and just watching someone else play them is, on its own way, sadder than anything in the genocide run (^:

I'm kind of scared if I should buy this game or not, like, my laptop isn't the BEST. Hardly can play TF2 without lag and such and its not because I have any internet problem. I know its a pixel game, but I just don't want to buy something I cant play....Maybe I should wait if it comes out on the WiiU or Xbone..IF.

http://undertale.com/demo.htm

The demo might give you an indication of how it runs.

As a longtime potato PC player that has been struggling for years just to get double-digit framerates I'll have you know I had zero issues running this.

I'd love a console release as a good excuse to give Toby more money. There's a couple things the game does that might be hard to port over but nothing really unfeasible. He currently has no plans, though.

[DiamondXBlitz]

The game is entirely 2D so it should play just fine, but if you want to be sure, you can try the demo here: http://undertale.com/demo.htm

The demo runs on an older version of the game as it was created a long time ago, but it should give a fairly decent idea.

Thanks for the demo link, I'll see how it runs

[WhoWhatMan]

I'd love a console release as a good excuse to give Toby more money. There's a couple things the game does that might be hard to port over but nothing really unfeasible. He currently has no plans, though.

Considering he made the game using Game Maker Studio, I doubt Undertale will ever get a console release.

[Dobkeratops]

Considering he made the game using Game Maker Studio, I doubt Undertale will ever get a console release.

There's plenty of games on console, or coming to, that run on GMS. ie: Hyper Light Drifter, Death's Gambit, Hotline Miami, Nidhogg.

Even if it wasn't compatible, it could be fixed.  Binding of Isaac was made in flash originally (which is absolute crap for games) and after it got successful it was reworked into a completely different engine (C++ based if I'm not mistaken) for the console release, improving the game in every possible way.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Dobkeratops

[JezMM]

The only issue with a console release is that a lot of meta stuff would be lost in translation, such as the W.D. Gaster clue hunt going on, and whether more user-friendly interfaces such as Nintendo would be cool with the game's... tomfoolery that occurs during the neutral finale (that would possibly have to be reworked).

Edited October 20, 2015 by JezMM

[Brad]

It says a lot when an ending to the game legitimately makes you care so much for pixel characters you don't want to play through the game again to keep them happy 

[Sean]

Yeah this game made me develop an extreme sense of empathy for all of the characters. It's why I'm not going to do a genocide run. Besides, I've seen the No Mercy-exclusive bosses and I don't have the patience to do them myself, far too difficult and I'm more likely to quit out of frustration and feel that my efforts are gone to waste

[FriendBot]

Yeah this game made me develop an extreme sense of empathy for all of the characters. It's why I'm not going to do a genocide run. Besides, I've seen the No Mercy-exclusive bosses and I don't have the patience to do them myself, far too difficult and I'm more likely to quit out of frustration and feel that my efforts are gone to waste

I guess when the game was called "the RPG where you don't have to kill anyone" when it was out, it should've added "you can but you will feel horrible about yourself and kind of die a little inside"

As for the bosses, yeah Undyne the Undying and Sans are just way too insane. Undyne is hard because of how precise the timing is to defend yourself especially when she throws a lot at you. Sans is just a fucking beast on its own, definitely one of the most unique boss battles I've seen in a RPG ever! So yeah, seeing him, of all PEOPLE in the game, being a complete badass while having terrible stats and just is completely aware of basic RPG mechanics as well can really fuck over someone. Which is why his fight is both hard AND awesome as fuck!

[Tori Himemiya]

Honestly the Genocide run reminds me way too much of Soul Nomad and the World Eaters. You know that game that nobody played!

So basically the first playthrough of the game has our heroes going on a quest to defeat 3 World Eaters because they will eventually destroy the world of course. And while it does have its twists and turns from what I remember from it was a straight up save the world plot with some mind fuckery around the end of the game. And then there's the Demon Path you get when you beat the game. It puts all the characters you were just with into pretty much hell. I'd get into the details but it gets kind of violent to some of the characters to say the least, not to mention spoiler territory.

The main difference between these two is really how memorable the characters are. Soul Nomad is mostly remembered for Gig's douchebaggery that everyone loves and the player character for being the avatar of the story. Oh and there's Endorph who's Walnut from Phantom Brave who already has a fanbase but that's about it really. In Undertale I feel like every character is memorable in much way due to how much they get built up and how much different they are. Toriel trying to be a motherly figure to the player while telling puns, Papyrus with his puzzles and spaghetti fetishes, etc. I think because this is a much more lighthearted story and how it jokes and plays with things it makes you much more attached to the characters which makes it more disturbing when you start murdering them all. And while I personally haven't done/seen a genocide run I can only imagine what horrible things you do to them.

I'm rambling on about two different things yes but I did wanna point out how much different a game can take from similar concepts, though you really didn't need me to since you already knew this. I felt like mentioning this kind of thing. Undertale has really done make iconic characters from the get go due to its fantastic writing to say the least.

[Emperor Robrainiac]

Haha, I think I'm the only person I know who has done the Genocide run... Whenever I play a game with multiple endings, I just have to get the full experience. It's why I wanted to get the best ending last, so I wouldn't get too terribly attached to the characters. And even then, I felt bad for doing so. But, my completionist side always seems to overthrow my emotional side when it comes to games. I'm a heartless man, I know.

I gotta say, When i finally killed sans, I felt very proud of myself. And within seconds. I felt guilty... He's the only character in the entire game to draw blood (Or Ketchup as some are speculating) and yet he still maintains his cool composure. Then taking Asgore by surprise and then making me feel bad for Flowey of all people!

And then I pretty much sold my soul to the devil in order to see the not as good pacifist ending.

Curse me for being a completionist. DX

[DiamondXBlitz]

Soooo, I just played the demo. Definitely getting it tomorrow. lol

I'll admit, I got a little emotional from that demo, mostly from the end =p

[FriendBot]

Soooo, I just played the demo. Definitely getting it tomorrow. lol

I'll admit, I got a little emotional from that demo, mostly from the end =p

That's only the beginning of the feels train, my friend. This game plays with your heart like a fiddle! : ____ ;

[Sean]

Okay but like

This is one of my favorite video games of all time I think. I worry about whether I'm jumping the gun by saying this but I feel like it's appropriate. I've spent the last few days thinking about it, how it not only affected me but also what other games have even made me feel the same after playing them. And really, while plenty of games get me overly emotional, none of them have done it any way quite like this one. I remember I was feeling really fucking shitty on the day I decided to finish up Undertale; I had previously been playing a little bit each day, enjoying it a lot but not being obsessed with it like I am now, y'know. I stopped at the Hotlands boss the day before. I was thinking some pretty bad thoughts that day, thoughts I'm afraid of sharing with most people. Instead of going to bed early I decided to just finish it up. It was my longest session by far; I was hooked the moment it started building up to the confrontation with the final boss, and everything from that point on subverted expectation after expectation.

Playing Undertale honestly made me feel glad to be alive. This isn't something I normally feel, if ever these days. I get emotional when I think back to all the times it subtly nudged my empathy for these fictional pixelated characters, such as San's super bad jokes and how his love for his brother made me latch onto him; I saw his presence as a comforting, supporting one throughout my journey, and I trusted him to have my back even though he was lazy and didn't actually play any sort of active role. Papyrus' goofiness made me think "holy shit this guy is hilarious," but it was seeing how deeply his loyalty ran for your friendship that made me feel proud to have him as my ally, especially since he actually reminds me in some ways someone I knew from college with whom I'm still friends to this day. And other things like Undyne slowly opening up to you, Alphys's growing confidence and admittance of her past mistakes, and Toriel's mother-like adoration and protectiveness made the Underground a place I felt was truly a home, if only for the duration I spent experiencing the story.

Undertale made me think a lot of good things for a change and I feel like my own life is ever so slightly improved just by having the chance to play it. I can't even express how happy I am that someone out there was able to make something like this in this day and age, and I believe it's a testament to how far storytelling in video games has come. You're not just watching a story unfold and triggering event flags like any other game... You feel like you, the player, an actual living person, are playing a tangible role in how these events play out. Its meta nature adds layers to the game's depth in ways nobody has attempted as well before, and it just would not be the same if it were a typical RPG with a plot that could have been transplanted into any other genre.

[Pompadour]

I can fully relate with that. Your role in the game feels like a great responsibility, but not one you have to regret. The amount of time you can have befriending everyone, learning what they like and dislike, solving their problems, even when you find them at their worst... it's such an optimistic experience. It's been a month, and I STILL feel warm and fuzzy inside just thinking about it! Like you really made so many friends... a bunch of fictional pixel friends, but ones you want to cherish forever. ;;   

Though I gotta wonder... so the name you give yourself actually represents the fallen child. Toby has stated that he'd like for people to use their real names in their playthroughs (if they can't think of anything else), and it's well known by now that the original fallen child... was not really a kind person. While that twist doesn't really disconnect me from the Pacifist ending, I kind of wonder what the message is supposed to imply there? We still represent Frisk, as we control them, but it's still an odd feeling realizing the child you're playing was not quite who you thought they were.

And that's all about the True Pacifist rout. Now, the Fallen Child and No Mercy Rout? That's a bit more straightforward. =)

Related... sort oft. But ever wanted to see all your monster friends wrestle? Ever wanted to see them do it in a 40 minute movie that's hilariously in-character, plot driven, AND disturbingly uncanny? Then LOOK NO FURTHER!

I'm pretty sure you won't regret it! I know I didn't.

[Sean]

 

Naming the fallen human (or Chara) after yourself is important, even for the pacifist run. It's not something you realize until you finish the game, but it forces you to identify with your actions, not only in Undertale but in every game you play. The twist about Frisk is that they don't represent the player. The pacifist route is their canonical personality. Chara is implied to be the embodiment of RPG battle systems, and the reason they are a non-character in the pacifist run is due to your unorthodox choices. That's why Frisk's true personality, and eventually their name, is able to surface by the end. You managed to not play by your own usual rules, because think about it, what other RPG out there allows you to avoid killing every single enemy? You make a conscious effort to spare enemies when logic tells you that you ought to slaughter them all for stat rewards, so in some way you aren't inserting yourself into the game, and thus you are incapable of truly identifying with Frisk.

Undertale's good ending is actually a little bit of a downer when you think about it in a meta sense. Sooner or later, you will get the urge to reset the game and play it from the beginning. So even in the pacifist route, you're still a fucking heartless bastard, willing to take away everyone's happiness for your own amusement. And even if you never play Undertale again, you will still play another video game sooner or later where you kill every enemy in sight. And yes, this is even straight-up acknowledged in the game's genocide ending, what with Chara's comments about you "getting bored and moving onto the next world." Sure, the games are programmed for you to kill enemies without Undertale's negative consequences, but you're the one who is making the choice to play these games in the first place. You are you, no matter what route you play.

To sum it up, the player is Chara. When you do a pacifist route you're simply going against typical video game logic, and so you're suppressing both Chara and yourself.

Anyway that's just my own interpretation. There's lots of interesting viewpoints out there about the implications of the action at the beginning

[Candescence]

I find that Undertale also seems to be a commentary on the violent nature of many RPGs in and of itself. Even in otherwise harmless games like Pokemon, the whole game pretty much revolves entirely around monsters fighting each other. Non-violent activities are basically shallow minigames at best.

Hell, EXP in and of itself is an entirely arbitrary measure of 'experience' and skill, gained by killing anything and everything that you can fight. That's not how people acquire actual combat experience and skill in reality, but like many things, what's 'real' isn't necessarily 'fun'. It speaks volumes that combat is probably the most iterated and innovated area of game mechanics in gaming history. Other forms of conveying conflict have been horrifically neglected in terms of innovation, especially dialogue, because combat is the de-facto go-to form of conflict in gaming.

That's kinda why I like how Undertale handles combat - killing things and going on a genocide run may be more challenging due to two specific bosses, but it's mostly unchallenging, mechanically shallow in comparison to the non-violent methods, and instead of a heroic power fantasy, the game goes out of its way to make you out as the villain and basically calls you (and make you feel like) an utter bastard for playing an RPG like, well, an RPG. It takes what should be the most 'fun' part of an RPG and makes it not.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Candescence

[Pompadour]

 

Hidden Content

Anyway that's just my own interpretation. There's lots of interesting viewpoints out there about the implications of the action at the beginning

Yeah, I can agree with that. Frisk themself goes completely against the norm, and having to play this way is not instinctive for us at all. When I mean represent, I guess I mean it rather lightly, as in that we still have to control frisk, even up to the point they have to confront and forgive asriel. It's still an effort on your part to make the decisions, whether it's through emotional attachment or anything else. Even if Frisk is ultimately not actually YOU, there's the chemistry between you and Frisk that's still very personal (least that's how I felt), and I think it becomes even closer as you play the game. It might've been offputting at first, but eventually sparing becomes instinct for you too.

Though it did make me think... while you aren't frisk, I guess you can say it was still a combined effort between you AND Frisk. In the end you both became great partners. Kind of a nice contrast at the end of No Mercy... when Chara tells Frisk the exact same thing.

As for the true reset thing... I remember feeling really conflicted about that too. I wanted to start back new, but.... I was so happy with the ending I got, that I didn't want my friends to have to go through it all again! I didn't want to pull a flowey, for sure. Especially after Flowey's jab calling you by "Chara/[insert name here]" at the very end. Sheesh, that actually hurt a bit.

... So instead I used my own powers to... store their save somehwere else, so a new one can be made. Probably defeats the purpose a bit, but this means everyone's safe at least. =P;

[Chooch]

I think Undertale is okay at best.

With the staggering amount of hype and praise coming from all over the internet and extremely favorable reviews from some gaming news outlets, it's hard not to seem like a mindless hater when criticizing this game. I don't really think most people who genuinely love or have a huge passion for video games really play a game wanting to dislike it and that's definitely not not the case for me here. I don't even feel like I had particularly high expectations for the game either, I just find it extremely disappointing.

In battle as a pacifist, your job is to figure out what ways you'll need to Act in order to pacify the monster and later spare it from your wrath. Naturally, with every monster comes a different solution I.E. different ways to Act. This makes the prospect of going to a new area and meeting new enemy types rather exciting at first thought, but only then. The lack of enemy variety prevents this from working as well as it should, I find.

There are multiple ways of resolving a conflict with a monster, but wild experimentation is not usually common practice for me when playing RPGs. Once I figure out an efficient solution to something, I'm inclined to simply repeat it whenever I can and as many times as possible so long as it keeps working and that is no different in Undertale. This is also made worse when you take into consideration that a lot of what you must do is either blatantly obvious or figured out extremely quickly. One area even allows you to use the same exact trick on multiple monsters of a specific type. Needless to say, random encounters can be a bit repetitive or tedious. That's common in RPGs for sure, but the game is already so short that I find it even more bothersome.

A bit more finesse is required when groups of two or more monsters appear on screen at one time but ultimately no normal "battle" for a pacifist should last more than a few turns once you figure out what needs to be done. There's a strange juxtaposition when encountering a normal monster in this game and tackling the bosses in a pacifist run of the game. The former requires immediate and rampant use of the Act command and limited need for precise movement whereas the later completely abandons the need for Acting a single time and is all about survival. Every boss monster encountered (except for the final two, I think) can be defeated by adapting to its specific gimmick and sparing it repeatedly for a predetermined number of turns before the battle simply ends. The bosses are far and away the best part of Undertale, but necessitating Actions would flesh them out a bit more and make them even more enjoyable.

The story to Undertale is pretty simple and isn't really something you think about much up until the final sections of the game, which makes the NPCs you encounter over your journey the main thing you focus on outside of battle for the majority of your run. There are puzzles placed in front of you in the overworld that you need to solve and are required to progress but none of them are particularly memorable or thought provoking in the slightest outside of one completely optional one that is more or less nothing but a long build up to an extremely dissatisfying bait and switch joke.

How much you enjoy Undertale is heavily dependent on how much the game's sense of humor lines up with your own. All of the NPCs have very vibrant and distinct personalities and nearly every interaction they have with the player character or with others is an excuse to show off their goofy side. Undertale never gives you the chance to forget that it takes place in a zany fantasy world that rarely takes itself seriously, for better or worse.

For me, Undertale's humor very rarely hit the mark and when it did, the result was a smirk or a small chuckle at best. Usually the almost never ending line of jokes brought on several bouts of head shaking and mild irritation that only escalated as the jokes are dragged on and were beaten severely into the ground. It becomes especially abrasive late in the game when some joke sequences quite literally stop you from making progress. Dying and going back to your last save point doesn't save you from reading the same lines again and again either. It's obvious that Toby Fox has a difficulty letting jokes go, so if you weren't amused by a joke when it's first presented you're going to have a bad time.

Oddly enough, my favorite character in all of Undertale is one you see very little of throughout the roughly six hour game. It becomes even more disappointing when you realize the level of importance they have to the overarching plot and the climax. I'd like to believe that if this character appeared even just slightly more often to break up the purposefully bad puns, run down jokes and references designed to appeal an internet savvy audience that it'd make for a better experience.

I don't exactly hate Undertale, but I simply don't think that much of it is done anywhere near as well as it could have been. The soundtrack is pretty damn good and the boss battles are quite challenging and fun due to their unique gimmicks. Outside of that, I find every facet of Undertale okay to mediocre at best. I don't think it's the groundbreaking experience that my peers have claimed it is because everything done here has been done before (and most importantly, it's been done better).

It's a short game that somehow manages to overstay its welcome in the first few hours and the climax just doesn't really seem worth the frustration for me. It does not help that so much of this game's fanbase feels the need to openly discuss the few interesting plot details that exist. I don't want to bother playing Genocide or getting the True Pacifist ending because the vast majority of it has been spoiled for me anyway.

tl;dr version

• The bosses are good. They'd be better if they required some use of the Act command
• The music is good
• The overworld puzzles are mindless fodder with no challenge
• The humor falls flat and becomes abrasive as jokes get dragged out
• Too much of the game's enjoyment involves its sense of humor lining up with your own
• Most of what the game does well has been done before and done better

Yep.