Undertale (PC, PS4, Switch) & Deltarune (PC DEMO)

[Brad]

God I so badly want the Delta Ruin shirt in black. If only I wasn't poor as fuck.

Anyone feeling the Christmas spirit early~?

[DBZHedgy]

Talk to @Soni about that Brad =P

[Brad]

This has become my new favourite song from the OST honestly

[Sean]

My favorites are Undertale followed by Hopes and Dreams (and all of its variants). I also really love the normal battle theme and the dummy remix of the ghost fight

[Phos]

It was really only a matter of time. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Phos

[Leviathan]

I usually hate things that people keep pushing on my throat, literally everyone kept talking about this game to me (its everywhere too, so it gets annoying), a friend of mine who knows well about my tastes said i should try it, he said it was like "Earthbound + Yume Nikki + Touhou" (I like those 3 games), and yes, he was right, i liked the game. About the music, i loved the entire soundtrack, its hard to choose one to be my favorite, I think "Battle Against A True Heroine" and Muffet's battle theme are my favorites. And yes, Muffet is my favorite character.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Leviathan

[Kaze no Klonoa]

 I believe I forgot to put up my final thoughts on the game. Yeah, like what others have been saying, it's blown my mind. It took away Ori and the Blind Forest's spot as the best game I've played all year, and that was really saying something (Since I loveeeedddd that game). It's funny, confident and subverts expectations (as well as RPG cliches). For a RPG (and hell a game in general), it's pacing is really great. I've never played a game that began and ended at a satisfying pace, yet still left me for wanting more. I really like the characters so much, really to the degree where finishing the game was really like I was saying goodbye to them. Like it was saying goodbye to old friends. And this kind of feeling easily gets conveyed because of how much humanity and personality everybody has. I love that feeling, especially when I feel it in something like Video Games.

[Tani Coyote]

Oh yeah. Official Undertale merch is now a thing. Toby Fox has specifically stated that he doesn't want mass-produced unofficial merch to circulate so I would suggest you guys not buy anything except from this site.

Said site has an awful lot of Nintendo fan stuff... that carefully omits the "official" line that people usually clamor to advertise. How strange! 

It's very hypocritical of him to say "I don't want unofficial merchandise" and then give his license to a place that looks to be thriving off it. He's a good game designer and all, but it looks like his ethics and logic need a little tweaking.

Now onto the game itself...

Very excellent writing and cast of characters. I especially dig the music; one track in particular reminded me quite a bit of Sonic tracks.

I haven't played the game myself, but I did watch a friend play it. Very interesting concepts all around in it. I can't imagine the string of similar games it will inspire.

[FriendBot]

 

one track in particular reminded me quite a bit of Sonic tracks.

It's Hopes and Dreams/SAVE the World, isn't it? I loved that theme because of how much it reminds of Sonic!

[Pompadour]

It's hard for me to pick any true favorites, but I think the ones that hold a special place in my heart are ASGORE theme, and Uwa!! So Temperate. Asgore's theme is filled with so many emotions for me. It's such a powerful song, but my heart just broke while it played as I fought him. This game just knows how to mess with your emotions without even trying. ;;

Meanwhile, Uwa!! So Temperate is such an obscure little tune, but so calming and sweet too. I like the Holiday and Heats versions too, but this one resonates with me more. I also sense a bit of Chrono Trigger in the style, and I wonder if that was intentional.

Said site has an awful lot of Nintendo fan stuff... that carefully omits the "official" line that people usually clamor to advertise. How strange! 

It's very hypocritical of him to say "I don't want unofficial merchandise" and then give his license to a place that looks to be thriving off it. He's a good game designer and all, but it looks like his ethics and logic need a little tweaking.

I don't really wanna get into ethics of creating unofficial merchandise, but I do think there IS a difference between selling fan stuff of multi-million dollar franchises, and selling fan stuff from a one-man game (with a handfull of friends) that has no sponsorship or any financial support besides for how successful his game is. Nintendo isn't gonna suffer if the franchises they hired people to make every few years gets fanart or t-shirts sold at a convention, but I don't think it's the same situation when you're the developer and publisher, and other people decide to make a profit off of you. If the game ever gets EXTREMELY huge where it actually gets handheld or console releases, I bet toby will be more open minded about unofficial merch being made.

While just a guess, Toby has been part of the Starmen.net for years, a site Fangamer's heavily affiliated with. It's highly likely it was just an easy option for him because he knew the people, and they could get a deal down quickly. It's not like he can open up his own shipping and manufacturing company if he actually wants to make official materials. And it looks like Fangamer's been making official indie game stuff for Nuclear throne and other titles now it seems, so hey, he has to start off somewhere. : P

[Tani Coyote]

http://steamed.kotaku.com/fan-creates-sequel-to-undertale-in-a-wrestling-game-1737929703

...so yeah. Someone made a fan sequel to Undertale... complete with in-character dialogue, a plot, and its own soundtrack; 40 minutes in length.

...In WWE 2K14.

Umm. I must say. This fandom is clearly innovative.

Hidden Content

Indeed! It's hard for me to not envision it in a Sonic scenario. I kind of ponder if Toby's ever played the Sonic titles...

I don't really wanna get into ethics of creating unofficial merchandise, but I do think there IS a difference between selling fan stuff of multi-million dollar franchises, and selling fan stuff from a one-man game (with a handfull of friends) that has no sponsorship or any financial support besides for how successful his game is. Nintendo isn't gonna suffer if the franchises they hired people to make every few years gets fanart or t-shirts sold at a convention, but I don't think it's the same situation when you're the developer and publisher, and other people decide to make a profit off of you. If the game ever gets EXTREMELY huge where it actually gets handheld or console releases, I bet toby will be more open minded about unofficial merch being made.

I'm not sure if I would agree, but I'll adopt your thinking for the sake of argument. Undertale has sold over 250,000 copies on Steam at a price of $9.99. Even after fees and taxes, he has made far more money than any average person can hope to make in the same timeframe. Given a little more time, he will have made more in a year than most make in a lifetime.

It sounds like he's got his fair share, if we're talking about it being okay to do unlicensed stuff after a certain point. He's well past the point where he can claim copyright infringement is taking food from his mouth or the roof from over his head. To us little people, there's not any practical difference between a million and a billion.

[Sean]

What you're saying honestly doesn't mean a whole lot at all, as Toby is the copyright owner and it's his call as to whether he wants unofficial merch to be floating around or not. If Nintendo or other companies didn't want it then they'd probably be making efforts to shut down unofficial merch venues. I'm sure that while they don't encourage it, they don't show any indicating of giving a shit, especially since they're a far, far cry from being an independent, one-man game developer. Also it doesn't matter at all how much money Toby has made off the base game at this point. It's apparent that he's hiring other artists to work on his line of merch and having other people do it themselves would detract from the value or be seen as competition, and would ultimately harm sales

Edited November 11, 2015 by Sean

[Tani Coyote]

You're kind of just making all of those rules up though? He's the copyright owner and it's his call as to whether he wants unofficial merch to be floating around or not. And he doesn't. If Nintendo or other companies didn't want it then they'd probably be making efforts to shut down unofficial merch venues. They literally don't give a shit and it doesn't matter at all how much money Toby has made off the base game at this point

I was using Pompadour's logic of wealthier companies being fair game for profit off unlicensed merchandise.

Onto your points: you are correct that it is the copyright owner's call. However, you are incorrect in Nintendo not caring. Nintendo has in fact gone after people for copyright, especially via its subsidiary the Pokemon company. Because at the end of the day, all unlicensed merchandise is still illegal, even if most copyright holders will not go after you for it. And when they do, they opt for a cease and desist. Even if they do nothing, it remains illegal.

But that wasn't what my concern was. My concern was it looks like Fangamer may very well have its own unlicensed products mixed in with its official products. Maybe Fangamer just forgot to mark a bunch of stuff "official," but in this day and age, "official" is a really big selling point since bootlegs and unlicensed merchandise are everywhere. It's quite an important word to omit. So I'm laughing at Toby not wanting people to buy unlicensed merchandise yet throwing his lot in with someone who has a somewhat suspect business. Why should his IP be respected but not someone else's? The money made on the brand is not my focus; it's the principle of the matter.

Anyway, copyright, trademark, etc. have a habit of derailing threads, even if we keep our focus on Undertale. I don't mean to take the last word away from you, Pompadour, or anyone else, but I think this would be better moved elsewhere.

[Sean]

I wasn't arguing about its legality, moreover that companies generally don't take action against that sort of stuff unless it's something that may directly compete with a product they're releasing. Like how Nintendo sent the C&D to the person who recreated Super Mario 64 in Unreal because they viewed it as a threat to people buying the actual game. Also worthy of note is that things such as commissioned artwork of copyrighted characters is also technically illegal but Toby has stated that one-off purchases such as these are okay as long as they're not massed produced

And also it would perfectly be in the companies'/devs' rights to ask people to not do any of this. Toby saying that commissioned artwork is okay with him doesn't diminish the overall questionable legality of it, but it's a personal choice that he made that he's free to change his mind about later on. Him being okay with it doesn't make it universally okay, he simply doesn't view it as a threat, and I already explained why Toby may not want unofficial merch to exist alongside his officially sanctioned stuff. Competition like that would directly harm sales for him. So basically unofficial merch to big companies like Nintendo is hardly a threat they usually consider worth dealing with, whereas Toby does in fact view it as such

also lol people always quote my initial post before I edit it like 50 times whatever

Edited November 11, 2015 by Sean

[Pompadour]

Goshdang I type slow, haha. But I guess I can add on to what Sean's already said. : P

I guess I didn't take in to consideration how well Undertale's actually sold, so I will agree that he's made a pretty good profit off of this, more than I was thinking of all this time.

However, I'm not saying wealthy company = fair game no matter what. If Nintendo wanted fangamer to remove their products, it'd be sad, but they have the right to do so if Fangamer was considered a threat. All I was trying to say was that selling unofficial materials impact major companies differently compared to indie gamers who are usually a one-person or more group, living solely off of whatever games they make and whatever unrelated job on the side. They may be successful, they may make a good amount of money, but it's not the same kind of status as Sony or Nintendo. Toby will probably have to save a good deal of the money he's making just to make another game, especially if he plans to make something fancier than undertale.

As for the what-if that Undertale made it to consoles, I just meant that it would be highly likely that Undertale wouldn't even be completely in Toby's hands by that point. Not saying that it's happening or will happen, but once other developers get involved, or whatever licensing agreements would happen, he wouldn't be able to hold Undertale as closely as he can right now. That's honestly what I meant more than.... Toby too busy swimming in cash Scrooge McDuck style, to notice thousands of bikinis with mettaton's face being made, haha. By that point, I don't think he would care nearly as much. But that's still all just a guess on my part.

But in the end, I still don't think it's hypocritical at all for Toby to sell items on Fangamer. There's no "if one company does this, EVERYONE should do the same" policy, and as far as I know he's never said he was against OTHER companies being okay with unofficial merch. He has no control over what Nintendo or whoever does with all of it either.  If him being on Fangamer shows anything, it's that he's okay with fan merch as long as companies don't care, but he's a guy that does when it comes to his own work. It's all a matter of who is okay with what regarding their own products, and Toby's one that's more protective. Call it selfish, but... he still has the right to do it. Besides, it's not like Fangamer is making unofficial Undertale stuff, and Toby's ok with it for some reason. If that were the case, there'd be more room for calling him a hypocrite.

But thankfully it's all official. So that means you can buy that Toriel doll and wear her dress symbol proudly and legally. which I hope to do once I get the money to. I will wear my goat mom shirt and never be sad ever again. :')

[FriendBot]

God I so badly want the Delta Ruin shirt in black. If only I wasn't poor as fuck.

Anyone feeling the Christmas spirit early~?

psssst maybe i can hook you up on that.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Soni

[Haalyle]

psssst maybe i can hook you up on that.

Oh... that seems a little suspicious there.

Anyway, I've played over an hour of this game today (thanks to @Soni for that). It's a rather unquie story and I'm really enjoying it at the moment (really need to build my RPG skills up though as I'm not very good at RPGs).

[PSI Wind]

I got my recent Game Informer in the mail today. They reviewed games such as Yoshi's Wooly World (8.5), Halo 5 (8.75), Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 (9), and Assassin's Creed: Syndicate (9).

But the game of the month and highest rated game? It was Undertale, with a 9.5/10. Considering how many people read Game Informer, this might give a huge boost to the game. 

[FriendBot]

If word of mouth hasn't been enough for some people to get Undertale (which is kind of ridiculous really) then I'm sure that would be a nice boost.

[Kaze no Klonoa]

If word of mouth hasn't been enough for some people to get Undertale (which is kind of ridiculous really) then I'm sure that would be a nice boost.

Yeah, I'm surprised that a lot of kids I've seen in my high school have the game and are giving it a shot. I'm glad that something like this is getting in the hands of those who mainly enjoy shooters and sports games. Strangely enough my own circle of friends think the game is uninteresting, despite it attracting a lot of people I know.

[Nix]

So, I purchased Undertale awhile ago and beat it yesterday, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

So, right from the fucking get go I make the horrible mistake of killing Toriel, I mean, one Froggit said I might be able to spare monsters if I wear them down enough, and then I kind of dealt more damage than usual and fuck, I felt like a goddamn monster.  So I went back in an attempt to maybe, you know, not kill her.

So I did manage to spare her, and right after that Flowey greets me, remembers what I fucking did, and calls me out on it.

"I know what you did."

"You murdered her"

"And then you went back, because you regretted it."

It's moments like these that make me appreciate video games.  Because they can do so many things that other forms of entertainment can't.  This moment told me that the game was special and the way the game interacts with your computer, save files, etc. is fucking sublime.  Not even saving in this game can save you, and that's just awesome.  Like that display of power Flowey makes by crashing the game; fucking fantastic.

I stumbled through the game well enough to get the neutral ending, then I went back for the Pacifist ending.  And fuck, it made me cry.  Seeing all of my friends rise up to protect me even after we seemed to have lost, seeing what drove Flowey to such lengths to become god... it was great, and I cried like a bitch.  And when it was all over, I backtracked all the way back to the beginning to see how my actions affected the world, and I managed to comfort Asriel one last time before everything was really over... entirely optional, and I'm sure a fair amount of people missed it, but it was amazing.

And after it was all over; I was craving for more... I wanted to start over.  I booted up the game, only to have Flowey beg me not to.  Because everyone is finally happy, and what right did I have to take that away from them.  I closed the game immediately, I can't bring myself to do it.  Not today, and I'm sure as shit never doing the Genocide run, because killing Toriel already made me sick to my stomach; I can't fucking imagine what kind of emotional state I'd be in if I killed Papyrus or Undyne.

Undertale is fucking incredible.  The last game to blow my mind so thoroughly was Zero Escape: 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors, but even that game never reached the emotional heights Undertale brought me to.  Undertale is short and sweet, but it serves as a perfect example on why I love video games.  It's the type of creativity you can't get from anything else, and I hope everyone gets the chance to experience it sometime.  It's one hell of a ride.

Game of the Year?  Undeniably so.  Xenoblade's going to have to move mountains in order for me to change my mind.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Nix

[Kuzu]

Every time I hear more about the Genocide route and what it entails. The more my heart sinks, I don't think I'll have the heart to do it.

[DBZHedgy]

Every time I hear more about the Genocide route and what it entails. The more my heart sinks, I don't think I'll have the heart to do it.

If you choose to watch one instead of playing through one yourself, Flowey will pretty much call you a wuss for not having the guts to do it

[TCB]

I was one of those who received the game via gift on Steam (and not from Soni GASP)

I'll make it short and sweet...

This has been the best game I've gotten to know about and play all year. I am not joking. Toby crafted a wonderful thing here; the world, characters, story, music- it was all one adventurous journey from beginning to end. I'm really happy I got the chance to really experience this game. It takes great care in giving the characters...feeling. If you know what I mean by that then you know. It just...special about this game. True Pacifist nearly got me to shed tears, yeah I felt choked up. I rarely have that happen to me in video games.

[FriendBot]

I already posted my thoughts on the game after I've gotten the True ending.

But since I've done Hard Mode (Pacifist and Genocide) and just now, beaten the Genocide Run, I feel like I should add my thoughts on those runs and maybe if my feelings changed over time.

Well I can now confirm after the ordeal I've been through after being dunked on countless times, I love this game EVEN more!

Whether it was how humorous the ending for the Hard Mode with the Annoying Dog (the personification of Toby Fox) destroyed all tension of the battle with Toriel and Flowey mocking the player for trying out Hard Mode. Or in the Genocide Run, the battles with Undyne the Undying and Sans.

For Undying, it certainly was really challenging and I loved how determined Undyne was to kill me but the fight itself was a bit eh for me, it certainly tested my skills on how to deal with Green Mode and my energy spear-dodging skills but I didn't felt very impressed with the battle but that's just me.

Sans though, is fucking insane! Like no joke, he's cheap as fuck, his attacks ignore invincibility frames and those motherfucking Gaster Blasters!

I loved that fight! I loved every second of that fight since it shows that Sans is a legit badass and even though I was frustrated whenever I died, I was so happy I survived. That fight made me love Sans a lot more!

I am in love with Undertale and it's definitely one of my favorite games of all time!

Now here I am, hoping  that Toby will make some sort of continuation is some way cause I want to know more about what happened in the past and as such.