The longevity of the Boost formula

[azoo]

Boost gameplay was most likely dropped for three reasons:

1 ) Depth and replay value. Boost gameplay was fast, frantic and fun, but honestly all of its depth was in how many buttons it had taken to navigate Sonic's movement, and not in the actual game design. Otherwise it's a one trick pony: the boost games aren't much more than obstacle courses you blast at top speed, sidestep and drift through. It's fun, but that's about all there is to it.

2 ) Cost/effort load versus amount of playtime. Boost games require not only next gen visual levels to keep up with the times, but also stages that are anywhere from 5 - 20 real life miles long. And considering Sonic's speed in those games, he kinda blasts through them in 3 - 8 minutes. Major waste of resources in comparison to play time, right? Especially if the replayability is low.

3 ) Freedom for creativity. Boost gameplay isn't very lenient to letting anything else other than going fast be the focus, because the game's design all the way down to its core principles make the player feel like going below top speed is a punishment. And there isn't really much you can do when you make the game about moving top speed at all times, besides litter obstacles everywhere that either slow you down, speed you up, or kill you. 

Also, the games following the base gameplay from Adventure and Adventure 2 (such as Heroes, ShTH and 06) only match them in regards to superficial elements, with their mechanics and gameplay focus being much different. After all, besides the inclusion of the homing attack and more linear routes, SA/SA2 gameplay is really just the classic games but adapted to 3D, rolling physics and all, and everything past SA2 threw that out the window entirely.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Azoo

[FriendBot]

Meh, guess I got my strong dislike for the Boost clouded my thoughts. I guess Heroes/Shadow were about as different as the Boost trilogy as you guys said but I just don't really care for the Boost anymore, that's just it for me in my end or else I'll start talking about things I don't really know about and come off as an idiot.

even though i'm already doing that anyway, whatever. everything i say is wrong anyway.

[CottonCandy]

My question in regards to the boost formula is how much creativity can they put in that game play without changing it up entirely. All your doing in boost game is holding down a button to go forward, only to do a couple of jumps,homing attacks, etc. here and there. It's was fun but I've never seen as being a permanent staple in the franchise. Plus, I felt like the level design that was centered around it was pretty weak and shallow. 

[Ratcicle King]

My point still remains, I never said Sonic Boom was made to save money, no, what I'm saying is that games being more expensive to make isn't an excuse to make cheap games. Even worse if you throw cheap games in the next gen, where standards are even higher. Sonic Boom is an example of how with every new gen we get higher standards for games in the new consoles, which is why Sonic Boom is laughably bad.

[Ripe]

Why boost was dropped? Because Sonic team loves experimenting things instead of perfecting what they already have.

Well, seriously I guess that it can be because of how much it probably cost to make boost-levels. It's true that games need to look good because those days apparently graphics are more important than gameplay. And games still has to perform well with those graphics and how fastly Sonic moves with boost. Also the levels have to be longer so that they don't last under a minute.

My own thoughts about boost? Well, I believe that there still is potential with boost in the terms of gameplay and level desing. However, if I have to choose which direction series would go I would say Adventure/Lost world way because 1. even if boost has potential I still think that the high speed somewhat restricts levels 2. I prefer earning speed instead of automatically having it and even I'm games like Adventure 1 and 2 (and also in Mega Drive games) it wasn't even hard to get some good speeds unless you were very bad in the game and if that's the case, practise.

[Kuzu]

Ya know, as much as I understand the sentiments that the boost gameplay was very linear and "one trick pony" and I too was among the ones that wanted Sonic Team to try and branch out more to something else...and that's exactly what they did in Lost World. And holy fuck did it make me appreciate Generations so much more. It almost makes me take back everything bad I said about the Boost games. 

Because like Hogfather said, you knew what you were getting with into the Boost games; you run really fast and get to the end of the level, that's it. You also could tell that Sonic Team were steadily improving with it cultivating in Generations where Modern Sonic controls like a fucking dream. Like holy shit, he controls so well in that game. And the level design was even a bit more open and explorative compared to Unleashed and Colors. It was such a complete package that I kinda wanted to see if they could take it further. 

Lost World, is yet another, experimental title and god does it show. So instead of settling on a style that worked and people actually liked, they decided to just say "Fuck that" and try something else. I mean yea, I get what they were going for with Lost World and I do think Parkour is an interesting mechanic to incorporate into Sonic's gameplay, but did it really require completely scrapping the mechanics you've been building from the past three games? Like, Lost World isn't a terrible game or anything, but coming off of Generations makes it look so inferior by comparison. 

 

 

On the Boost games themselves, I've grown more appreciative of them over the years, particularly since I just played Generations recently and had a lot of fun with it. Generations isn't as frustrating to master as Unleashed or as boringly simple as Colors, it strikes a perfect balance of being fast and exhilarating while being simple and fun. That said, its mostly good in short bursts unless you have things like extra-gimmick levels like in Unleashed or Colors. There's also the whole "no exploration" thing, which is understandable and I agree with to an extent. But goddamn, the boost games really made you feel like you were actually Sonic the Hedgehog plowing through everything in your way at breakneck speeds. If Sonic Team don't try and improve on the Lost World formula (or if they decide to reinvent the wheel again), I don't necessarily want them fall back on boosting, but I wouldn't exactly be against it either if it follows up on what Generations did.

[Diogenes]

My point still remains, I never said Sonic Boom was made to save money, no, what I'm saying is that games being more expensive to make isn't an excuse to make cheap games. Even worse if you throw cheap games in the next gen, where standards are even higher. Sonic Boom is an example of how with every new gen we get higher standards for games in the new consoles, which is why Sonic Boom is laughably bad.

No one is saying they should make cheap games. What they should make is good games at reasonable costs, not mediocre games that are expensive to produce.

[Kuzu]

No one is saying they should make cheap games. What they should make is good games at reasonable costs, not mediocre games that are expensive to produce.

What are we defining as "mediocre" here tho.

[FXT]

I think boost should be a minor feature, just like Homming Attack, instead of a game defining mechanics.

My take, that I even use on my fan game, is take out the invencibility of the the boost and use it as a tool to save you if you need speed and boost you only in parts you can afford to use it, But using boost is risky, and may lead you to a end. Other points is not only leave Sonic vulnerable, but tone down the acceleration and not have energy for more than half the level to 1/4 at least. With this, you can use the boost as a high risk/reward system, that, if you master the use of it thoughtfully would lead to a much more rewarding gameplay.

But, would be stupid to think Sonic Team would rethink the way they are working. We are probably getting another boost to win game next year and that's that.

[azoo]

Even with everything I've said about the boost gameplay, it's not that I wouldn't enjoy another game with it.

It's just kind of the same old drag we've had for three games already and I'm sorta tired of it. Despite Generations polishing it up better than the two games that preceded it, it still feels like I'm playing the same old game with little variation. Plus, it's just not as fun to me as freer movement, more platformy/slopey level design and rolling around at the speed of sound by any means, and doesn't really give much of any room for other playable characters (unless they too can run up to 300mph from a standstill).

And call this pedantic if you want, the fact that the gameplay itself basically pretends that rolling isn't even a thing Sonic does anymore despite that being his entire schtick besides running fast doesn't really help my feelings towards it. It just seems so dumb to remove it from Sonic's moveset and replace it with something generic like a slide or a boost or something, and no, shafting it to the drift or some in-between animation after hitting a dashpad doesn't help. :v

Edited October 5, 2015 by Azoo

[Regen]

I don't think the Boost games are actually bad from a technical standpoint and on their own merits they are actually very fun! Unleashed suffers the worst because, despite being the fastest and possibly the prettiest, it has severe control, movement and trial and error problems that ruin the experience. Colours and Generations had great Boost levels that were excellent on their own terms because they ironed out these issues.

I can understand why purists don't like them, they play very differently to Classic Sonic. That said, I think many fans wanted Boost to be built upon because it was very well-made and fun and that can't be said for the other types of experimental gametypes. I do believe some Sonic fans don't like Boost because they want the Adventure movement and level design for Sonic to come back, after Sonic '06 completely finished off Adventure's reputation with its similarity, which I also sympathise with.

I mean, we don't know if Boost is actually gone. There's only been one Sonic Team Console title since Unleashed that didn't use Boost, Lost World, which was a special case as it was a Wii U exclusive and heavily borrowed from Nintendo tradition to try to appeal to Nintendo fans. We don't know that the next Sonic Team Sonic game will not use Boost (if it's being developed).

Edited October 5, 2015 by Regen

[Kuzu]

I mean, I still love Classic Sonic and everything like that, but almost every attempt at following that up has been met with mixed reactions at most (Adv., Rush, Sonic 4, Classic Sonic Generations, etc.) So like, I get that rolling and slopes are a big part of what make Sonic who he is and all, but I have no real faith Sonic Team can replicate that in 3D, they can barely get it right in 2D nowadays. 

By all means, they can try but you know, I still liked boosting and whatnot and its something I actually know they've improved on and would have faith if they actually bring it back. 

[Fake Hedgehog]

The Boost looks really good for Sonic and provides a satisfactory sense of Speed. Even without platforming and puzzles, curves, rails, steps and other obstacles/hazards offer a different type of difficulty that doesn't interrupt the flow of speed. I like the Boost

Speed and platforming are really mutually exclusive so people will always be divided on it.

[Toby]

Funny thing about the boost trilogy, I actually have more fun playing through them without using boost and feel it makes them much more enjoyable.

That's probably why Colors is my favorite of the three, boost is much less prevalent.

[Blacklightning]

Honestly, I feel like the Boost's biggest problem is that it's so intense that it actually detracts from a lot of the rest of the game.

- The sheer speed of it makes levels run shorter, which either makes production more expensive by making levels ridiculously large or requires some amount of arbitary padding present in all three games (medals and werehog in Unleashed, extreme level recycling in Colours, gimmick levels in Generations) to make a game of equivalent length.

- Because there is neither a reasonable buildup (Boost is usually powered by rings, which fucking become magnetic while you're boosting) nor a reasonable punishment (almost no enemies can actually touch you if you're boosting, and the difficulty comes off as fake if your speed runs you into hazards you can't even see until it's way too late to react) to using the Boost properly, there's virtually no point in designing levels that need to be exploited for speed.

- The level design that does benefit from the Boost is almost exclusively lateral and narrow, so there's very little room for vertical elements in level design - which is already a problem in of itself, but it also means there is no hypothetical environment that alternate characters can thrive in without it, because the majority of them have more vertically-oriented moves to contrast with Sonic's raw speed. This in turn usually means Sonic ends up being saddled with both approaches forcibly whenever applicable instead of being spread across the cast, most obvious in the case of Wisps.

But that's just as they last stood. I've seen a few people say stuff like this is indicative of how long the style would've lasted, but you know what? All of these things are preventable. The only thing innate to the Boost style over Adventure is a button that affects your speed on the fly, and there's plenty you can still do with that. Make it an acceleration boost rather than an outright speed lock. Get rid of the kill aura entirely so there's an actual point to rolling/sliding besides where the game says you can't progress without it. And, well you know, it doesn't have to be Lost World slow but it doesn't have to be a literal breaking of the sound barrier either? We've seen it in action long enough to understand it can be refined over time - if Sonic Team hadn't thrown it to the wayside for no discernible reason or even focused so much on arbitary gimmicky bullshit while they were still using it I'm pretty confident they would've come to this conclusion eventually.

Boost or no, though, one thing is clear - the constant overhauls and gimmicky bullshit do need to stop. Consistency begets progress and polish, and the Boost formula isn't the only benefactor of that - we saw the fruits of that all the way back in fucking Genesis days, where nearly every game was mechanically the same yet functioned as a progressive evolution of the formula with every new game. Not only that, but in both cases Sonic actually had some semblance of a goddamned identity people could instantly liken him to in his gameplay rather than a springboard for whatever new idea Sega wouldn't have been able to sell as a separate IP. It could be Boost, Genesis, Adventure, Parkour or goddamned Spinball for all I care as long as they take the time to polish it and sell it off that polish rather than another fad masquerading as a halfassed get rich quick scheme.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

The Boost looks really good for Sonic and provides a satisfactory sense of Speed. Even without platforming and puzzles, curves, rails, steps and other obstacles/hazards offer a different type of difficulty that doesn't interrupt the flow of speed. I like the Boost

Speed and platforming are really mutually exclusive so people will always be divided on it.

Me to. The boost also makes things FUN and the more skills the person has the more useful. 

[Blacklightning]

Me to. The boost also makes things FUN and the more skills the person has the more useful. 

Okay look, I like Boost as much as the next person, but let's not pretend it challenged much more than memory as a skill component. Let's make a quick case in point:

This curve. This friggin' curve right here. I don't know a single person who didn't die to it on their first try. There's a number of reasons why this happens - first of all, the learning curve, which doesn't really punish you for failing a drift until now midway through the game before suddenly throwing in a random gap in the railing built specifically to kill you. But more importantly, you have to prepare for that drift before the gap is even fully visible, because simply reacting to it with normal human reflexes will cause you to slide right into it. This is far from an isolated incident - the Boost games are loaded with beginner's traps that depend on knowledge of the level design beforehand to bypass rather than a series of challenges that can be reasonably be overcome with foreshadowing and reflexes. This is awful, awful game design no matter which way you spin it. If ever I were to bring the Boost style back, I would specifically make sure that shit doesn't happen again, because losing lives to things you had no way of anticipating is just not fun, let alone challenging in any authentic sense.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Memory also goes in other games to. I say skill because I see this word going around alot and with the boost games players have skill in that game as well. I know I do. 

[SaturnWolf]

I've heard a lot people complain that "Sonic Team should've kept the Boost formula instead of f***ing around with experimental s*** like the Parkour", but why though ?

Because as has already been said; Sonic has always struggled with consistency. That's one of the biggest issues with the games; Sonic Team has ADD. They, frustratingly, NEVER stay in one place for too long. I think that the boost trilogy was kind of a fluke in how the three games using it managed to stay relatively similar to each other. But after how panned Sonic Lost World's play style was, what they do next is totally up in the air. Do they improve it? Well, that would require some fundamental changes and scrapping the level design that Lost World had.

 

Do they come up with a new style all together? In many ways, that'd be worse. That would, in the eyes of the consumer, say that Sega won't even bother to expand upon ideas. That would also make the whole consistency issue worse because the style would have only lasted for one game.

 

At least, that's the way I figure it.

[Kuzu]

Okay look, I like Boost as much as the next person, but let's not pretend it challenged much more than memory as a skill component. Let's make a quick case in point:

This curve. This friggin' curve right here. I don't know a single person who didn't die to it on their first try. There's a number of reasons why this happens - first of all, the learning curve, which doesn't really punish you for failing a drift until now midway through the game before suddenly throwing in a random gap in the railing built specifically to kill you. But more importantly, you have to prepare for that drift before the gap is even fully visible, because simply reacting to it with normal human reflexes will cause you to slide right into it. This is far from an isolated incident - the Boost games are loaded with beginner's traps that depend on knowledge of the level design beforehand to bypass rather than a series of challenges that can be reasonably be overcome with foreshadowing and reflexes. This is awful, awful game design no matter which way you spin it. If ever I were to bring the Boost style back, I would specifically make sure that shit doesn't happen again, because losing lives to things you had no way of anticipating is just not fun, let alone challenging in any authentic sense.

Not criticizing, because I agree to an extent. 

But what's the line between "fake difficulty"  and something legit? At least as far as platforming games go?

[Sparky]

Sonic the Hedgehog is impulsive, never stays in one place for too long, and embodies the essence of chaos.

Oh, and the character is like that as well.

[FriendBot]

Not criticizing, because I agree to an extent. 

But what's the line between "fake difficulty"  and something legit? At least as far as platforming games go?

I guess one way to tell the difference between real and fake difficulty is that real difficulty is when you fully mastered the mechanics of the game and the levels test the player if they mastered those mechanics. Fake, I guess is those curveball ones that has no warning of it happening and you get wrongly punished for not doing reacting accordingly. 

This is just me spitballing here so take with the finest specks of salt.

[Ratcicle King]

Okay look, I like Boost as much as the next person, but let's not pretend it challenged much more than memory as a skill component. Let's make a quick case in point:

This curve. This friggin' curve right here. I don't know a single person who didn't die to it on their first try. There's a number of reasons why this happens - first of all, the learning curve, which doesn't really punish you for failing a drift until now midway through the game before suddenly throwing in a random gap in the railing built specifically to kill you. But more importantly, you have to prepare for that drift before the gap is even fully visible, because simply reacting to it with normal human reflexes will cause you to slide right into it. This is far from an isolated incident - the Boost games are loaded with beginner's traps that depend on knowledge of the level design beforehand to bypass rather than a series of challenges that can be reasonably be overcome with foreshadowing and reflexes. This is awful, awful game design no matter which way you spin it. If ever I were to bring the Boost style back, I would specifically make sure that shit doesn't happen again, because losing lives to things you had no way of anticipating is just not fun, let alone challenging in any authentic sense.

However, you're using Unleashed to define the Boost games as a whole, ignoring the fact Colors and Generations slowed down the expected reaction time a LOT, and made the games much more enjoyable and less reflex based. While, yes, skill and good reflexes would reward you, they're not vital for having a good run and a fun experience overall. 

[Wraith]

Not criticizing, because I agree to an extent. 

But what's the line between "fake difficulty"  and something legit? At least as far as platforming games go?

It's as simple as the player having time and the tools to react accordingly to what you throw at them. Unleashed is pretty demanding of the player for a game which such sloppy controls and movement, which can lead to a lot of bullshit moments unless the player has a good grasp on the controls and fast reaction time. I still enjoy it, but it took me  a while before I got the hang of it. Generations toning things down and tightening up the controls helped loads with this, though. I barely had any problems with that game as far as the level design went. 

[NoirSuede]

I think boost should be a minor feature, just like Homming Attack, instead of a game defining mechanics.

My take, that I even use on my fan game, is take out the invencibility of the the boost and use it as a tool to save you if you need speed and boost you only in parts you can afford to use it, But using boost is risky, and may lead you to a end. Other points is not only leave Sonic vulnerable, but tone down the acceleration and not have energy for more than half the level to 1/4 at least. With this, you can use the boost as a high risk/reward system, that, if you master the use of it thoughtfully would lead to a much more rewarding gameplay.

But, would be stupid to think Sonic Team would rethink the way they are working. We are probably getting another boost to win game next year and that's that.

Well at least we know that once Sonic Team starts a new formula they'll make a trilogy out of it, it happened with Adventure (kinda, Heroes and Shadow delayed them), it happened with Boost, and it'll happen with Parkour.