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Awoo.

The longevity of the Boost formula


NoirSuede

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He's nomadic, can't be tied down, doesn't care about established rules or what the common norm is, you'll never know where he'll be next or what his next adventure will be like, he's like the wind, he becomes one with the power of the Chaos Emeralds instead of controlling it like Shadow, both Sonic and the Chaos Emeralds are always in new locations and finding them is very difficult without a radar of some sort, he never plans ahead or follows a set path, his speed is virtually limit less, I could go on.

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He's nomadic, can't be tied down, doesn't care about established rules or what the common norm is, you'll never know where he'll be next or what his next adventure will be like, he's like the wind, he becomes one with the power of the Chaos Emeralds instead of controlling it like Shadow, both Sonic and the Chaos Emeralds are always in new locations and finding them is very difficult without a radar of some sort, he never plans ahead or follows a set path, his speed is virtually limit less, I could go on.

That doesn't actually make him chaotic though :P , that just makes him free-spirited. Just because he becomes one with the power of the Chaos Emeralds doesn't mean he is therefore literally chaotic. Also, it's pretty fucking debatable that he is more at one with the Chaos Emeralds than Shadow!

Someone who is chaotic is totally unpredictable, confusing and in complete disarray. Sonic always does the right thing and is a 'good moral' character. He's not chaotic at all.

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That doesn't actually make him chaotic though :P , that just makes him free-spirited. Just because he becomes one with the power of the Chaos Emeralds doesn't mean he is therefore literally chaotic. Also, it's pretty fucking debatable that he is more at one with the Chaos Emeralds than Shadow!

Someone who is chaotic is totally unpredictable, confusing and in complete disarray. Sonic always does the right thing and is a 'good moral' character. He's not chaotic at all.

Chaotic does not equal Evil. Sonic is the definition of the Chaotic Good alignment. Also, he and Shadow share the exact same abilities. Shadow isn't one with the Chaos Emeralds though because he is CONTROLLING Chaos and keeps it inhibited. 

 

Buy my point was that the franchise reflects the character of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Edited by Sparky
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Chaotic does not equal Evil. Sonic is the definition of the Chaotic Hood alignment. Also, he and Shadow share the exact same abilities. Shadow isn't one with the Chaos Emeralds though because he is CONTROLLING Chaos and keeps it inhibited. 

 

Buy my point was that the franchise reflects the character of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Let's just go with your assumption that Sonic is chaotic, which I strongly disagree with because he's clearly characterised as free-spirited but ultimately predictable in saving his friends. (If anything Shadow is the closest to Chaotic Neutral but it's still a stretch). Do you seriously think that messing around with genres, gimmicks and playstyles, just to fit this highly implausible interpretation of the character, is worth it considering how much it hurts the franchise?

If you do, then I really don't know what to say. I think I would be speechless.

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Let's just go with your assumption that Sonic is chaotic, which I strongly disagree with because he's clearly characterised as free-spirited but ultimately predictable in saving his friends. (If anything Shadow is the closest to Chaotic Neutral but it's still a stretch). Do you seriously think that messing around with genres, gimmicks and playstyles, just to fit this highly implausible interpretation of the character, is worth it considering how much it hurts the franchise?

If you do, then I really don't know what to say. I think I would be speechless.

I am not condoning the mess of inconsistencies and needless change, nor am I agreeing with forcing Sonic to follow a set style with little freedom of expansion or doing other things.

Recently, I've been back wondering if a character/franchise that embodies Speed and Chaos even works as a video game series.

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Recently, I've been back wondering if a character/franchise that embodies Speed and Chaos even works as a video game series.

Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Grand Theft Auto, Dark Souls and God of War to name a few. 

Sonic isn't chaotic which is why trying to make his games chaotic would be a bit weird :P . Sorry, I just really don't agree with your interpretation.

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Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Grand Theft Auto, Dark Souls and God of War to name a few. 

Sonic isn't chaotic which is why trying to make his games chaotic would be a bit weird :P . Sorry, I just really don't agree with your interpretation.

Sonic is extremely Chaotic. Everything about him aligns perfectly with the alignment of Chaotic Good, and freedom is a big part if Chaos. The only thing that would make him any more chaotic is 4th wall breaking comedic insanity.

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Sonic is extremely Chaotic. Everything about him aligns perfectly with the alignment of Chaotic Good, and freedom is a big part if Chaos. The only thing that would make him any more chaotic is 4th wall breaking comedic insanity.

Are you sure you're not talking about Deadpool?

Because that sounds like Deadpool.

Sonic only goes "chaotic" when the only he needs to do is destroy Eggman's army but outside of that, he doesn't go out of his way to destroy things. He's not a loose-cannon.

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Are you sure you're not talking about Deadpool?

Because that sounds like Deadpool.

Sonic only goes "chaotic" when the only he needs to do is destroy Eggman's army but outside of that, he doesn't go out of his way to destroy things. He's not a loose-cannon.

 

If Sonic's not chaotic, then 

-he doesn't care about freedom 

-he doesn't endlessly travel around the world like a nomad without a home to go back to

-he isn't rebellious in any way, and he always listen ls to the rules and what other people think is right

-he isn't constantly searching for excitement and fun

Sonic is chaotic. If you think he isn't then you might not fully understand chaos.

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rebellious =/= chaotic

... rebellious kinda does equal chaotic. It's a trait within any chaotic good character. In fact it's a trait of the Chaos alignment in general because ultimately its directly tied to freedom, and freedom is a huge part of Chaos.

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I think adopting the Sadv2 boost is the most logical step that ties the empty gap between the boost and traditional Sonic gameplays together, if anything. Sure, it makes it a lot more clear of what you're doing when you press and hold a button to do it, but gaining enough speed and suddenly 'getting' it like you do in Adv2/3 is a lot more satisfying, to me at least. Plus, it feels a lot more in line with the general game-play and takes a long time to get to, so it doesn't feel too out of place compared for other characters to have.

You could probably get the best of both worlds by using the Advance style boost, but instead of just automatically activating it when the requirements are met the game instead gives the player an audio and/or visual cue and has them activate it manually.

Edited by Bowbowis
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Why are we talking about Sonic's personality here? Get back on topic, people. Also, 

rebellious =/= chaotic

He's just hot headed to be honest, just the emeralds adds more of that to him.

Don't make posts like this. They don't contribute much to anything. Leave this kinda short talk in the statuses.

Anyways.

You could probably get the best of both worlds by using the Advance style boost, but instead of just automatically activating it when the requirements are met the game instead gives the player an audio and/or visual cue and has them activate it manually.

Dunno how that'd work, though. If you're gonna give the player something they have to press to do, you have to give them a reason why they would need to press it. For that to work, you'd need something like a speed gauge that rises past a certain point and will allow you to blast past it if built up enough.

Without it, there's no predictability behind where and when you can do it, beyond just knowing you have to run very fast for an extended period of time, which in that case (plus it being all part of the "build up speed" idea) you might as well make it automatic, because it's not like it did any harm being like that in the Advance games.

Edited by Azoo
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Sonic the Hedgehog (franchise) is not meant to be predictable or restricted.

I'm not sure what you mean or how it applies to any of what I was saying, unless we're supposed to some sort of vague list of ideals that have no real meaning.

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I'm not sure what you mean or how it applies to any of what I was saying, unless we're supposed to some sort of vague list of ideals that have no real meaning.

What I mean is, the 'standard' gameplay of the Sonic series, and specifically for Sonic himself, should be unpredictable and unrestricted and free. It should be something that the series can stick with, but can also be altered and added to in endless ways without throwing away the core. You should feel like you are playing as a free nomadic and heroic speedster who lives life how he feels like without caring about what other people think or say about him or believe is the definitive 'rules'. The Sonic Boost and the Unleashed-Generations gameplay format, from my perspective, captures that 'essence' in a great way. Although it's not perfect, for reasons that some others might list or have already listed. Personally, I feel like the perfect Sonic Gameplay formula should be the Classic formula, Adventure formula, 'Boost' formula, AND 'Parkour' formula mixed together with the addition of something new. 

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Sonic as a character is unpredictable (somewhat), unrestricted and free.

Sonic as a game series is only unpredictable because of a lack of consistency and bad design decisions thought to be the answer to a problem that didn't really need a new answer.

And while I'm not completely against 'taking a little bit of everything and making new', it's going to end up leaning closer to one gameplay style than another, so I'm not entirely sure what it would solve.

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Dunno how that'd work, though. If you're gonna give the player something they have to press to do, you have to give them a reason why they would need to press it. For that to work, you'd need something like a speed gauge that rises past a certain point and will allow you to blast past it if built up enough.

Without it, there's no predictability behind where and when you can do it, beyond just knowing you have to run very fast for an extended period of time, which in that case (plus it being all part of the "build up speed" idea) you might as well make it automatic, because it's not like it did any harm being like that in the Advance games.

Maybe you can have a bar that fills up when you reach a certain speed but stops when you go below it, and then once the bar reaches a certain point like say half-way you can either do the Advance boost or you can  do something else like say bring up a shield for some meter when you have the upgrade/powerup to do it.

 

Oh and so that the player knows how fast he needs to go to fill up the bar, put in an actual speedometer (like the one in Unleashed but with actual speed figures to go along with it) and put a line at the minimum speed you're supposed to go to fill the meter on the speedometer.

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Okay, finally made it through this topic, and I have to say...I kind of find Lost World does continue the Boost gameplay, at least a little.

Now, I know both the Wii U/PC and 3DS versions have stage design fairly different from the actual Boost Trilogy, but no one's bringing up that one move: the Spin Boost. It's not exactly the same as the Boost, but I felt it came sort of close. As much as I like the Boost formula, I was really missing the Spin Dash, So I was pretty happy when it made a return in SLW (even if it wasn't quite what I'd hoped for, but hey). I just feel like the Spin Boost could be a viable option in future games, if tweaked right.

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I think adopting the Sadv2 boost is the most logical step that ties the empty gap between the boost and traditional Sonic gameplays together, if anything. Sure, it makes it a lot more clear of what you're doing when you press and hold a button to do it, but gaining enough speed and suddenly 'getting' it like you do in Adv2/3 is a lot more satisfying, to me at least. Plus, it feels a lot more in line with the general game-play and takes a long time to get to, so it doesn't feel too out of place compared for other characters to have.

This is what I'm thinking too.  The boost mechanic in Adv.2/3 also made use of your ring count with more rings = getting to the boost faster.  The only major complaints about Adv. 2 that I've heard others talk about are that the levels were too primitive to implement the boost mechanic with later levels strewn with bottomless pits (though I think a lot of level design frustration is focused just towards Sky Canyon and the need to know how to do air tricks that caught a lot of people off guard) and that collecting emeralds was the pits, which I agree with.   But I digress.  I think the best way to implement the boost again is to make it earned rather than mapped to an instant boost button once you grab a ring.

Edited by Taokaka
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Okay, finally made it through this topic, and I have to say...I kind of find Lost World does continue the Boost gameplay, at least a little.

Now, I know both the Wii U/PC and 3DS versions have stage design fairly different from the actual Boost Trilogy, but no one's bringing up that one move: the Spin Boost. It's not exactly the same as the Boost, but I felt it came sort of close. As much as I like the Boost formula, I was really missing the Spin Dash, So I was pretty happy when it made a return in SLW (even if it wasn't quite what I'd hoped for, but hey). I just feel like the Spin Boost could be a viable option in future games, if tweaked right.

They just need to make the Spin Boost react properly to hills/slopes and make it so that going into Spin Boost mode by itself doesn't give you a free speed boost then it's golden.

 

Also, personally the whole tube level thing is just the Boost trilogy's level design contorted so that it doesn't have an edge you can bump into.

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Personally, what I'd do to the Spin Boost is this:

Maybe cut back the speed and have it be limited in how long it can be used, like the original boost used to be. Possibly give it a meter of sorts. It'd mostly still give a constant speed, but have it be affected by slopes like Noir said. Definitely keep it's attack properties. If a meter was added, make it so rings and defeated enemies still fill it, but it doesn't stay filled if it's not used. Standing still or going slow drains it, while going faster actually refills it while not in use. Could also be filled by revving the spin dash. Have it so you can go into the boost right after revving or running a certain speed.

I don't actually know if something like this would work, but it seems like it'd be neat.

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Personally, what I'd do to the Spin Boost is this:

Maybe cut back the speed and have it be limited in how long it can be used, like the original boost used to be. Possibly give it a meter of sorts. It'd mostly still give a constant speed, but have it be affected by slopes like Noir said. Definitely keep it's attack properties. If a meter was added, make it so rings and defeated enemies still fill it, but it doesn't stay filled if it's not used. Standing still or going slow drains it, while going faster actually refills it while not in use. Could also be filled by revving the spin dash. Have it so you can go into the boost right after revving or running a certain speed.

I don't actually know if something like this would work, but it seems like it'd be neat.

So, when you rev up the spindash, you fill up a bar that's used for the Spin Boost. When you let go of the Spin Dash and start rolling, the bar slowly drains, and if you want to pump (regain some speed) the Spin Boost you need a chunk of the bar. When the bar runs out the Spin Boost becomes a normal roll, and the bar itself can only be refilled by Spindashing and Parkouring (though at a slower rate than revving up the spindash).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Almost as if the 9 position D&D alignment system doesn't cover every possible personality...

Anyway, in their own way, both the parkour and boost system replaced the original physics, I don't see the return of either as a positive. This kind of does and kind of doesn't apply to the Adv2 boost, which the primary problem with was it encouraging auto play levels with the platforming equivalent of Sierra deaths. What else do you do with a mechanic that requires you to just go straight to trigger? In practice it was frequently a cosmetic mechanic, requiring a max speed device (side spring or booster) to trigger.

And because I have to: that unleashed is a pretty cool guy, eh runs face first into things and doesn't afraid of anything. 

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