State of Emergency in Paris - 11/13/15 - Terrorist Attacks

[Mauro Fonseca]

And I don't think the people who do this stuff understand that. They're not only causing pain inside France, but around the world. And if it's true they are aiming for the UK next, then what do they think they will accomplish with this? It all just seems so barbaric and I cannot believe such crimes are committed in this day and age.

Of course they understand it, it's the whole point. This is not 1970, this is not Bin Laden delivering VHS tapes to Al Jazeera, they know how the internet works and how to exploit it.

[ElectricAngel]

Of course they understand it, it's the whole point. This is not 1970, this is not Bin Laden delivering VHS tapes to Al Jazeera, they know how the internet works and how to exploit it.

So the way I understand it is, they're just doing it as a scare tactic? Ergh, I can't seem to understand what their goal is. 

[Salamander]

Their goal is pretty simple: They want to intimidate any country which opposes their organisation, IS, and its beliefs.  An attack on Paris obviously terrifies Parisians and French citizens most directly, but it's quite intentional that the impact will be felt among France's allies and other nations which oppose IS's actions in the Middle East; the message to them is "stop fighting IS, or you're next."  There are some related advantages to IS as well - destroying unbelievers, displaying their power and influence to their own supporters or potential supporters, and also increasing tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims so that the former will suffer more discrimination in their home countries and feel no choice but to turn to IS for protection.  That's the theory, anyway; in practice such acts simply create disgust, horror, and hatred that fuel efforts against IS.

So the primary goal won't work, of course.  Attacks like this only inflame tensions and turn more people against IS, make it more urgent to defeat the group - and this is especially true because, frankly, IS would have eventually come after countries like France and the U.K. anyway, even if they had no present involvement in the Middle East.  IS's final goal is the same as that of every other radical organisation: World domination.  It's an impossibility, of course, but ultimately it means that any unbeliever, anywhere, is fair game, as a demonstration of their power and influence and as an attack on those countries whose values they oppose.  The real target of their attacks is simply anywhere they can pull off an attack.

[CottonCandy]

I was following the news as it unfolded yesterday...

Absolutely horrifying. 100+ people killed in cold blood over night...

My prayers and condolences go out to the victims and their families. 

 

 

[Alex2Beta]

As I commented in the statuses before, this is sick and disgusting - and the idea of a group of people executing such a cold act with their mind set to it enrages me for it's inconsideration  for other lives - especially innocent lives that had shit to do with them.

So many innocent lives were killed by a group of these inhumane fucks all for the sake of some delusions of world domination - regardless of what the intent for it is, there
is no excuse for such actions, and because of this horrible event, minorities are likely going to suffer further discrimination all because of the actions of ISIS.

My condolences to the families and friends who lost their beloved ones as a result of this.

 

[FantasticMrRobb]

Poor Paris, what did they ever do to anyone? So many casualties, so many losses.. I hope everyone is safe now. How could they do such a thing? :/

[Danj86]

I just read about this. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/paris-attacks-jason-manford-removed-from-facebook-after-expletive-filled-post-condemning-murdering-a6734431.html

I'm familiar with Jason Manford and I like him, one issue I feel like mentioning about that story is the fact that some have criticized his post and even brand him 'Islamaphobic.'

But I've read through the article and none of his quotes actually specify any religion. I don't understand how anyone could jump to that conclusion. He only said that a god that desires such acts is a 'c***' and real muslims always speak of the peace that the koran encourages.

...so why the anger towards his words? It just seems like if you get angry at his comments, it is kinda admitting that you do believe in this 'c***' god?

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the information as I have done on so many other occasions...

Edited November 14, 2015 by DanielJ86

[Tara]

I just read about this. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/paris-attacks-jason-manford-removed-from-facebook-after-expletive-filled-post-condemning-murdering-a6734431.html

I'm familiar with Jason Manford and I like him, one issue I feel like mentioning about that story is the fact that some have criticized his post and even brand him 'Islamaphobic.'

But I've read through the article and none of his quotes actually specify any religion. I don't understand how anyone could jump to that conclusion. He only said that a god that desires such acts is a 'c***' and real muslims always speak of the peace that the koran encourages.

...so why the anger towards his words? It just seems like if you get angry at his comments, it is kinda admitting that you do believe in this 'c***' god?

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the information as I have done on so many other occasions...

Yeah, I don't see it as Islamophobic, personally.  He's speaking in general that any god who would ask for people to be killed like this is not a god worth following.  He doesn't mention that there are plenty of peaceful Muslims, but he doesn't necessarily have to because that wasn't the point.  I definitely don't feel he should have been removed from FaceBook for it.

[Jango]

This is terrible, seriously. And even worse, I saw on TV that France WILL attack the terrorists back, as the Islamic State took full responsibility of the massacre. Apparently Russia and IRAN will join forces with France to attack the ISIS. Which only means more innocent people will die, this time in Syria and Iraq...

[ZDozer]

What.

They know that France is mostly an ally of America, don't they?

[DiamondX]

Considering in little over a month now we've had a large group of people die at concerts(the Romania thing at the end of October, and this) wonder if concert venues, especially popular ones that people go to, will see a large drop rate out of fear....

I just saw your post.Our Colectiv club incident is different from this. There was some problems with the fireworks and a pillar started burning and the whole club is ruins.

But the France thing affects us since were not just related to the french people, as we come from romanic people, but also since we are friends

[KHCast]

I just saw your post.Our Colectiv club incident is different from this. There was some problems with the fireworks and a pillar started burning and the whole club is ruins.

But the France thing affects us since were not just related to the french people, as we come from romanic people, but also since we are friends

my point I was making wasn't that it was a planned thing. Just that we've had two major catastrophes revolving around a concert venue, so I'm curious about if the number of people that attend big concerts will decline out of fear or paranoia.

[DiamondX]

Yeah, i understand now. I never liked going to concerts anyway.

[Tara]

Mishaps happen at concerts all the time, though generally not something as catastrophic as that.  I'm not undermining the tragedy, but it's not the first time something like this has happened at a venue like that.  I don't think what happened in Romania is going to impact concert sales too much.  It might affect the venue owners, but I doubt concerts will see a drop in attendance as a result, even if it is in juxtaposition with what happened in Paris.

Now, the events in Paris might have an affect on concerts... in Paris and maybe France as a whole.  But it's actually during times like these where people need concerts the most to lift spirits.  So even if there is a fear factor involved, I think people are more likely to take the risk to go out and lift spirits and stand up for the cause than to be afraid.  Of course, the attitudes of people are hard to predict, so I could be wrong, but I don't picture attendance dwindling on a global scale.  Humans are a lot more resilient and persistent than that, generally speaking.

[KHCast]

I guess that is true. The least I could see being a thing in response is security being upped and a few more safety precautions and procedures being taken/advised. 

[Tani Coyote]

What.

They know that France is mostly an ally of America, don't they?

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

The United States and the Soviet Union teamed up to crush the Axis.

The Nationalists and Communists teamed up to kick Japan out of China.

Just recently, the Taliban and Iran worked out terms to unite against ISIS.

Even gangs do it; the Bloods and Crips were temporarily allied in Baltimore after the Freddie Gray incident.

ISIS is bad news for everyone all around, and every nation has come to the conclusion they have to go. Even other Islamic radicals do not want ISIS to be around anymore.

I will say it again: it is fairly telling that Al-Qaeda, which has butchered countless people on its own, has deemed ISIS too radical.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Noelgilvie

[KHCast]

France Soccer player Lassana Diarra announces his cousin was one of the ones killed during the attacks

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Oh for fucks sake...

Now people in the US (Donald Trump especially) are using this as an excuse to argue against gun control. This isn't the fucking time people...

Edited November 15, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Tornado]

They know that France is mostly an ally of America, don't they?

They also realize that France has basically taken up the mantle of "meddling in Middle Eastern affairs" after general war weariness caused the United States to mostly defer problems in the region to the UN. Syria's government being overthrown, and the power vacuum it caused that was even worse than Saddam's, and the refugee crisis that it has dumped on Western Europe, was mostly France's mess, for example.

Oh for fucks sake...

Now people in the US (Donald Trump especially) are using this as an excuse to argue against gun control. This isn't the fucking time people...

And even worse, The Donald knew about this specific attack 11 months in advance and did nothing!

[ZDozer]

Al Qaeda considers ISIS a threat, now that's a new one. Of all people, I wouldn't expect one group with SIMILAR causes to consider them a threat. Maybe it is a "there can be only one villain" thing?

[kdotj24]

I'd love to see a day where everybody is just nice to each other. Even for a day. Please?

[Kevin]

 

I was unfortunate enough to know someone who had family in Paris during this attack. Although I wasn't all that well acquainted with him, I was out with him and a few others last night. It was around midnight when he got a phone call from his parents bringing him bad news for one family member. I'm not sure who it was, but apparently they were close, because as soon as the news hit him he was just constantly depressed and trying so hard not to cry. We gave him space, and everyone apologised. Part of me wanted to ask what happened but that would've been rude.

My sincere condolences.

Me and a friend of mine are trying to track down someone who used to part of the Sonic community years ago who lives in France. We know who the person's real name is, and tried all old contact info, but with no luck. We all used to be regularly in contact with each other, but haven't seen her in a long time and the subject just recently came up. We're hoping that she's ok.

[Tani Coyote]

As a historian, I need to speak up on a certain subject that's making the rounds in some places. I am hearing "France didn't stand by us in our time of need" from several of my American countrymen on the Paris issue, as a way to defend coldness towards the French people.

This is a disgusting falsehood, and it makes me cringe.

France is, was, and probably always will be one of our closest allies.

France is the reason the United States is an independent country. It was their funding, weapons, alliances, and soldiers that gave us the edge we needed on Britain. The early Continental Army was a joke and the only reason it wasn't crushed early on was General Howe wasn't entirely interested in crushing us (he wanted to avoid a massacre, feeling we could still work out peace).

France is a key reason we got involved in Vietnam. We had to help them there for them to agree to let Germany re-arm.

France took part in the Gulf War. They recognized that Iraq was threatening global stability.

France was in Afghanistan after 9/11 from the start. Again, they recognized a regime was threatening stability.

They weren't in the second Iraq War because they did not feel there was enough justification. Most countries didn't. How dare a country feel that money and human lives need good reason to be thrown away, right?

The French are not our slaves, vassals, clients, or anything of the sort. They are our brothers in a fundamental belief in democracy and inalienable liberty.

They were simply asserting this fact those few times they did not follow our lead. They will not blindly follow us into everything we do, but if we can make it clear they have an interest in the outcome, they will happily lend their aid. Just as we would do the same for them.

I think it's readily apparent that we have a common interest in containing the violent acts of extremists.

 

Al Qaeda considers ISIS a threat, now that's a new one. Of all people, I wouldn't expect one group with SIMILAR causes to consider them a threat. Maybe it is a "there can be only one villain" thing?

Well, it's a bit complicated.

A large part of the split is simple politics. Al-Qaeda in Iraq (which became ISIS) was operating with increasing independence and there was nothing Al-Qaeda central could do to control it. They needed more justification than "they won't listen to me!" to expel them from the Al-Qaeda network.

However, 10 years ago, they were sending letters to Al-Qaeda in Iraq asking them to take it easy with the beheadings and other acts of violence, because a lot of these killed people for the sake of killing them. Al-Qaeda's violence, while it freely targets civilians, is primarily meant to extract political goals (in other words, they are true terrorists), as well as win the support of the masses. When they saw ISIS killing people left and right for no real objective, they felt this would alienate Muslims from the cause.

In short, it's a mixture of recognizing reality, plus a few fundamental differences in ideology. Al-Qaeda focuses on terrorist attacks and wants to awaken Muslims while ousting the West from Muslim lands. ISIS wants to build an actual state while also killing whoever it pleases.

[Tara]

America's perception of French people is so absurdly terrible and rooted in the most baffling and contrived thought processes, in addition to being flat out wrong, that it's actually nice to know that governments can distinguish governments from people... sometimes.  Otherwise, I wouldn't blame France if they didn't want to ally with us.  Anyway, thanks for mentioning that, Oggy, as I think a lot of people undermine how much of an influence the French have had on us historically and why this attack is as devastating as it is even from an American standponit.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That's what happens when you live in a superpower where people believe to a ridiculous degree in their country's exceptionalism - some people become insular and don't care about anything that isn't about their nation.

and honestly, I'm not surprised at some Americans being dismissive of France right now, because we seem to have a problem with nationalism and all sorts of bigotry coming out the wood work and clouding people's judgement.