[Frozen Nitrogen]

While discoursing away in the Media topic, a thought struck me.



Consider if you will for a moment, this image out of context. Forget that you've been told this is called Sonic 4, that Sega's press release has said that this is a retro-style adventure. Try to imagine a world in which this image (and the rest of the trailer where it shows actual GAMEPLAY, I guess) are the only things you've seen of simply a freshly-announced "New Sonic game".

Picturing that in your head? Good.

Now exactly what, in THIS IMAGE, says "Genesis era gameplay" to you?

I daren't fathom the depths of your strange and crooked mind, dear reader, but just allow yourself to muse over that question while I provide you with my answer. What, in the gameplay we've seen, says "You're back in time to the glory days of 1994!"?
Not a damn thing.

If I was your standard videogame consumer, in no way aware of Noodlemouse right until I saw this picture without any of the associated agitprop, I really do not think "Wow, they're taking a retro route!" is something that would have popped into my head. It's the same modern model they've been using for 10 years. It's the same pseudo-Green-Hill level clone they've been re-using for 10 years. From the game itself, there is nothing which suggests this is a return to S3&K-like play.

There was a post a couple of days ago, on either here or Retro (lol can't find it) that jokingly suggested this game might have started production just as a generic, unapologically modern, new Rush-style 2D Sonic title intended for download, and only halfway through did Sega think "Hey, we might be able to whip up more publicity by simply branding this as Sonic 4!". And to tell you the truth, the more I look at that image, the more I'm actually starting to believe it.

Marketing and branding is superfluous. Like I said at the start, just look at the gameplay and say what you see. A game is its gameplay, and from that, this doesn't say Sonic 4.

IT SAYS SONIC RUSH 3.

This post has been edited by Frozen Nitrogen: 09 February 2010 - 02:49 AM

[Blacklightning]

Three. Whole. Seconds. Of footage. There's nothing really to suggest it'd be a Rush game, and the only thing that we have right now that would suggest a classic continuation is the checkerboard soil - something I don't think any modern games have implemented, save for Heroes.

If you had a substantial amount of content to prove your point, well just maybe I might agree, but there's nothing to suggest at this point whether or not anything that follows will be consistent or completely different.

[Iceman Etika]

As much as you KNOW that people are gonna go ballistic after reading your topic, I still can't disagree with your points.

The one thing I do want to say though is that this could just be a mockup and there's a lot of time and room for change. However, I have the feeling everyone after me is going to say the same thing.

He has a point that I can't deny. Nothing in this shot looks like Sonic 4. I think this is why a lot of fans are insecure and praying to the gods that this game isn't a failure.

The main points everyone will argue is:

1. OMG THIS GAME DIDN'T EVEN COME OUT YET AND U BASHING IT BASTARD ONLY THREE SECOND OF FOOTAGE OMG BASTARD
2. DON'T BE SUCH A DOWNER BASTARD
3. IF DEY SEY ITS ZONIC FOOR THEN ITZ ZONIC FOOR BASTARD

Let's see how right I am!

-Iceman

[EXshad]

Checkered walls. Surreal environment. Retro baddies. Sign-posts. Blue skies. Blue hedgehog. The way he runs. The sounds when he jumps.

These elements mirror classic Sonic. As evidenced by THREE FUCKING SECONDS OF GAMEPLAY.

This fan-base fails to understand one thing: this is Sonic 4, whether you like it or not.

[Octarine]

Frozen Nitrogen, on 08 February 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

If I was your standard videogame consumer, in no way aware of Noodlemouse right until I saw this picture without any of the associated agitprop, I really do not think "Wow, they're taking a retro route!" is something that would have popped into my head.

To the average video game consumer (and indeed the average reviewer, based on the ones I've read), Sonic Rush itself was a retro, back-to-basics experience. I'm sure we're the only ones who care so much about this, for better or worse.

For the rest, all I can do is dumbly repeat "ONLY THREE SECONDS, ONLY THREE SECONDS". Your logic is fairly sound, but it's based on an insufficient base of evidence.

There's certainly precedent for disappointment where Sonic Team's involved, but doomsaying at this point seems pointless to me. Might as well save your breath for when there are six or even nine seconds of footage to analyze.

[DesertPunk]

Quote

What, in the gameplay we've seen, says "You're back in time to the glory days of 1994!"?
Not a damn thing.

What, in the gameplay we've seen, says "you're going to be boosting like it was 2008"
Not a damn thing.

But seriously dude, there isn't anything there that really suggests either thing. I could probably take a screenshot of Chemical Plant Zone (for example) from Sonic 2 that has an area with a loop almost like that and claim that it would be just like Sonic Rush. Sonic 2 had a lot of areas that were just about the speed as well, Emerald Hill Zone for one had quite a few places like that. We already know that there is no boost in this game, which was one of the major mechanics in Sonic Rush in the first place. We really haven't seen enough to make a good judgement call on whether or not they are going to live up to their word, but just because the game is using a GHZ-like area and modernized graphics doesn't automatically mean Sonic Rush.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

EXshad, on 09 February 2010 - 03:03 AM, said:

Checkered walls. Surreal environment. Retro baddies. Sign-posts. Blue skies. Blue hedgehog. The way he runs. The sounds when he jumps.

These elements mirror classic Sonic. As evidenced by THREE FUCKING SECONDS OF GAMEPLAY.

This fan-base fails to understand one thing: this is Sonic 4, whether you like it or not.

Although I feel capable of refuting most of those points, this one in particular requires scathing response.

In what part of Sonic 3 & Knuckles did I miss "Sonic hobbles around like an arthritic drunk" Zone?

[Nepenthe]

Mayhaps I'm forgetful, but I thought the whole point of going the retro route was to resurrect classic gameplay which isn't something that can be accurately gauged from watching a Sega employee or computer roll through speed gimmicks of the first level.

And that goes for any Sonic game. Just look at these horrifically cheesy Japanese commercials. Sonic's flying all over the place in them, but no one holds such unabashedly false advertising and blatant showcasing of the evils of speed against those games-- Hell, the public was excited over the marketing back then! What in the world happened from then to now? I mean, I still enjoy watching Sonic go fast in trailers.

Oh yeah, obligatory three seconds of footage, mountains out of molehills, yadda yadda yadda. I don't think this needed to so blatantly brought up again.

This post has been edited by Nepenthe: 09 February 2010 - 03:12 AM

[Iceman Etika]

DUDES HE'S NOT SAYING IT'S SONIC RUSH, HE JUST USED RUSH AS AN EXAMPLE! HIS REAL POINT IS THAT THIS GAME DOESN'T REMIND HIM OF SONIC 3, IF YOU LOOKED AT THIS PICTURE A YEAR AGO, WOULD YOU THINK SONIC RUSH, OR SONIC 4?

[EXshad]

Frozen Nitrogen, on 08 February 2010 - 11:09 PM, said:

Although I feel capable of refuting most of those points, this one in particular requires scathing response.

In what part of Sonic 3 & Knuckles did I miss "Sonic hobbles around like an arthritic drunk" Zone?

Really? There AREN'T checkered walls, or classic baddies? Or a blue sky?!?!

And that's his pre-full speed animation, which is said to be identical to the one in Sonic CD.

This is a huge joke. It has to be! Claiming that this is already a horrible game... lemme make that clear: NOT saying it COULD be horrible, not WORRYING it could be horrible based on SEGA's regrettable recent track-record, but saying it IS horrible simply because.... what? Please, explain again WHY this isn't Sonic 4, but some abomination that'll bring the ruination of a franchise in dire need of THIS game. Please. Humor me.

Quote

DUDES HE'S NOT SAYING IT'S SONIC RUSH, HE JUST USED RUSH AS AN EXAMPLE! HIS REAL POINT IS THAT THIS GAME DOESN'T REMIND HIM OF SONIC 3, IF YOU LOOKED AT THIS PICTURE A YEAR AGO, WOULD YOU THINK SONIC RUSH, OR SONIC 4?

First, lay off the caps lock. Second, from an objective view point, I see Sonic 4, because that's what it is.

This post has been edited by EXshad: 09 February 2010 - 03:15 AM

[Casanova]

Frozen Nitrogen, on 09 February 2010 - 02:48 AM, said:

IT SAYS SONIC RUSH 3.

But it doesn't. It says Sonic 4 more than Sonic Rush 3.

The reasons? Well where to begin? Sonic Rush has always been a 2 part storyline, Sonic and Blaze. So far we only have Sonic here.

Sonic Rush usually has a variety of gameplay modes, Rush 2 has all the sailing/submarine stuff for instance. Here we have only seen platforming.

The storyline is said to be after Sonic 3 as apposed to Rush 2.

Theres the hidden fottage in the video showing what appears to be a special stage thats rotating, a genesis era idea not a modern Rush idea.

Sonic rush contains the rush bar, that ability to charge through anyway, this game does not have that. evidenced by the lack of a power bar and that the video (and hidden clips) show no signs of this move. This for me would be key counter evidence, Sonic Rush was Sonic Rush because you... well... Rushed through everything.... no sign of that here.

Even if we're not looking at Rush as the example, again, all signs point to Sonic 4, Riders has a specific style, it's 3D yet very different to this. In the footage that we've seen, it looks like a new type of Green Hill Zone... if anything the only assumption someone could possibly come to is a new version of Sonic 1.

This post has been edited by Casanova: 09 February 2010 - 03:15 AM

[MAiKU]

The sonic Rush series had a boost feature, this game does not.

There is no boost gauge in the footage. Therefore the only way of boosting would be the speed shoes or elements (i think they were called gimmicks???) in the level that provide a boost such as a boost ramp or gate which were in the classic games.

This post has been edited by MAiKU: 09 February 2010 - 03:15 AM

[Nepenthe]

Iceman, on 08 February 2010 - 10:12 PM, said:

IF YOU LOOKED AT THIS PICTURE A YEAR AGO, WOULD YOU THINK SONIC RUSH, OR SONIC 4?

I would think it's a 2D Sonic game. =/

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Iceman, on 09 February 2010 - 03:12 AM, said:

DUDES HE'S NOT SAYING IT'S SONIC RUSH, HE JUST USED RUSH AS AN EXAMPLE! HIS REAL POINT IS THAT THIS GAME DOESN'T REMIND HIM OF SONIC 3, IF YOU LOOKED AT THIS PICTURE A YEAR AGO, WOULD YOU THINK SONIC RUSH, OR SONIC 4?

^ Please to be listen to this man, he knows my mind. :3

Sonic Rush is just what I feel to be closest to what this actually looks like.

What that image does not do, if you didn't already know, (or, like me, even if you DID), is jump into your optic nerve and make you go "Man, that reminds me of Sonic 3 more than any other Sonic game. I wonder if this is a direct continuation??"

This post has been edited by Frozen Nitrogen: 09 February 2010 - 03:19 AM

[Blacklightning]

Iceman, on 09 February 2010 - 01:12 PM, said:

DUDES HE'S NOT SAYING IT'S SONIC RUSH, HE JUST USED RUSH AS AN EXAMPLE! HIS REAL POINT IS THAT THIS GAME DOESN'T REMIND HIM OF SONIC 3, IF YOU LOOKED AT THIS PICTURE A YEAR AGO, WOULD YOU THINK SONIC RUSH, OR SONIC 4?

I don't claim to speak for anyone here, but I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that there isn't enough information to make either possibility.

[DesertPunk]

Iceman, on 08 February 2010 - 08:12 PM, said:

DUDES HE'S NOT SAYING IT'S SONIC RUSH, HE JUST USED RUSH AS AN EXAMPLE! HIS REAL POINT IS THAT THIS GAME DOESN'T REMIND HIM OF SONIC 3, IF YOU LOOKED AT THIS PICTURE A YEAR AGO, WOULD YOU THINK SONIC RUSH, OR SONIC 4?

Caps locks much? Theres no need to be a dick about this.

Also, I seem to recall reading stuff about gameplay and that this gameplay (among other things) is saying Sonic Rush 3 in his post up there.

Quote

I don't claim to speak for anyone here, but I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that there isn't enough information to make either possibility.

What he said.

This post has been edited by DesertPunk: 09 February 2010 - 03:16 AM

[Iceman Etika]

Everyone is missing the point so bad that it hurts. First of all he's not labeling this game is going to be bad, he never once said in his entire post the game was going to be bad! So please everyone stop giving the generic "You're not even giving the game a chance" because he never said anything negative!

He's not talking negative about the game, but for some reason, whenever people see a topic about Sonic 4 they instantly go on the defensive! The poor guy is just trying to make a point people.

What's his point? It's NOT that this game is Rush. He never actually said this game is going to be Sonic Rush Three. He used Rush as an example, that's all.

His point is that in terms of the games relation to Sonic 4, only based on the small clip we've all seen, it lacked the material to make it relate to the previous Sonic 1-3, he's not saying it's going to be a bad game because of it though. He's not saying it's Rush either! I feel bad for him because everyone is misunderstanding him!

-Iceman

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Iceman, on 09 February 2010 - 03:22 AM, said:

His point is that in terms of the games relation to Sonic 4, only based on the small clip we've all seen, it lacked the material to make it relate to the previous Sonic 1-3, he's not saying it's going to be a bad game because of it though. He's not saying it's Rush either! I feel bad for him because everyone is misunderstanding him!

-Iceman

Except I did... kinda call the topic Sonic Rush 3.

And said "IT SAYS SONIC RUSH 3" in big letters at the end of my opening.

BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, he's entirely right.

<.<
>.>

This post has been edited by Frozen Nitrogen: 09 February 2010 - 03:29 AM

[DesertPunk]

Quote

Marketing and branding is superfluous. Like I said at the start, just look at the gameplay and say what you see. A game is its gameplay, and from that, this doesn't say Sonic 4.

IT SAYS SONIC RUSH 3.

Seems to be saying its going to be Sonic Rush 3. The topic is even titled Sonic Rush 3, which seems to imply to me he is saying its Sonic Rush 3. Maybe if he didn't want to be misunderstood, he should choose his words more carefully . I also wasn't saying he was saying anything negative about the game. Simply pointing out that making that kind of a judgement is way too early, and that either way this game could be like the classics or not.

[EXshad]

Iceman: I think you missed MY point, dude. Read this little quote:

Quote

Now the death egg saga isn't exclusive to good games.

*le sigh*

This is what I meant in a good chunk of my post. Not so much the argument that it's "Sonic Rush 3" and not Sonic 4, which is a load of Miracle Grow, if ya catch my drift.

God, this fan-base knows how to crawl under my skin. Sure, every fan-base has whiners. And trolls. And assholes. It comes with the job description. But the Sonic-base got the shaft when we got the crystal balls. Y'know, the people who can manage to tell you something will suck when you only see about THREE. SECONDS. OF. GAMEPLAY.

I'm just about fed up with this fan-base, I've never heard so much bitching over something we supposedly wanted for over a decade. Hell, I almost wish Project Needlemouse was really Shadow the Hedgehog 2, then maybe you'd know what REAL disappointment is.

This post has been edited by EXshad: 09 February 2010 - 03:31 AM