Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Zaysho]

Can you prove that?

 

I can't vouch for the Japanese side of things (somebody really needs to translate those scripts!), but in Colors and Lost World both, the planet is never named. In fact, Eggman refers to the planet as "Sonic's world" in Colors. Whether SEGA plans on going back to calling the planet "Earth" in the future I can't say, but SEGA doesn't really seem to care given how much of an afterthought story is to the franchise now.

 

With regards to calling the planet "Mobius" in the comics, both SEGA and Archie decided to drop the name after 20 years for whatever reason. Could've been part of standardizing everything which can be more easily changed should SEGA change things up with the games in the future. Hell, it gave Penders the opportunity to take the name for himself after that. In his own words: "I simply picked it up in the bargain pile at Goodwill where Archie and Sega dumped it." For whatever reason they chose to drop it after twenty years, and so Penders swooped in and took the name for himself (gosh, you're so original and creative, Penders. Archie was foolish to let you go! [/sarcasm]).

 

I find it's not that big a deal. It's strange that this is how they choose to approach things, but I don't see myself losing sleep over it. So long as the comic stays on track, even if two or three years worth of stories got thrown out because of the legal mess, I'll be happy.

[goku262002]

 

Can you prove that?

Yeah, the games. Zaysho already explained for me.

But yeah in the end its just a name, it sucks that we can't call it earth or mobius but its not that big.

[Jet Prower]

Well, I got my issue in the mail now, and I do have to say it is interesting so far at least. This art is much better than the one in the last main issue by such a long mile that it isn't even funny. This artist is MUCH better than the other guy. I'm liking where this is going at least and making this almost like the Shadow the Hedgehog 2 game or something seems like a much better way to go than just retelling Shadow the Hedgehog again. Now, if we are going to stick to the video game stuff but make it a further expansion of the games without retelling them over and over again, yes I can get behind that of course. I think I can see where some of this is going and it isn't that bad to me. I can't wait to see more with this new character of course.

[Splash the Otter]

 

Yeah, the games. Zaysho already explained for me.

But yeah in the end its just a name, it sucks that we can't call it earth or mobius but its not that big.

I fail to see how the recent games make anything prior to Unleashed non-canon. Sonic 4 ties directly into Sonic CD, and Generations speaks for itself.

[Zaysho]

I fail to see how the recent games make anything prior to Unleashed non-canon. Sonic 4 ties directly into Sonic CD, and Generations speaks for itself.

 

SEGA is really just cherry picking though. They don't have to make reference to certain things if they don't want to (such as the planet's name). Generations, other than being a nostalgia game, didn't make specific references to the world or make any attempt to tie everything together. I don't think everything is explicitly non-canon or off-limits, it's just that SEGA chooses not to do anything with it.

[Toby]

Well, I got my issue in the mail now, and I do have to say it is interesting so far at least. This art is much better than the one in the last main issue by such a long mile that it isn't even funny. This artist is MUCH better than the other guy. I'm liking where this is going at least and making this almost like the Shadow the Hedgehog 2 game or something seems like a much better way to go than just retelling Shadow the Hedgehog again. Now, if we are going to stick to the video game stuff but make it a further expansion of the games without retelling them over and over again, yes I can get behind that of course. I think I can see where some of this is going and it isn't that bad to me. I can't wait to see more with this new character of course.

We'd all been telling you this was exactly the way things were going to be this entire time.

[Blackbell]

We'd all been telling you this was exactly the way things were going to be this entire time.

Glad to see you enjoyed the issue Jet Prower and that you can see which way the comics will go in terms of game adaptions. I've yet to see the issue myself but I one of the few fans that enjoyed playing Shadow the Hedgehog (I think it's the fact that Shadow doing silly things such as needing to ride a motorcycle or use a weapon when he's the ultimate life form made me laugh) so looking forward to reading it. 

[goku262002]

I fail to see how the recent games make anything prior to Unleashed non-canon. Sonic 4 ties directly into Sonic CD, and Generations speaks for itself.

 

Not everything is non-canon. just some small aspects now, like the planets name.

[Splash the Otter]

What? Just because they no longer refer to the planet by its name doesn't mean it stopped being Earth!

[Zaysho]

What? Just because they no longer refer to the planet by its name doesn't mean it stopped being Earth!

 

No one said that. SEGA's just choosing not to refer to the planet by name, and told Archie to follow suit. It's not a big deal. I'd still say "Earth" or "Mobius" depending on the continuity I'm talking about, but after 20 years of using them interchangeably across the franchise, that's kind of a hard habit to break.

[bwrosas]

Ben Bates Explains Mecha Sally design and Sally Redesign :

 

 

 

Mecha Sally 

 

With some recent activity regarding Sally's redesign I thought it might be fun to go through the development process and show some production stuff. 

 

In early 2011 editor Paul Kaminski asked if I would be interested in redesigning Sally and I jumped eagerly at the opportunity. I was intimidated but honored to mess around with such a prominent character. 

 

The idea was to do a three stage process, she would be roboticized, weaponized, and (due to Eggman's tinkering) restored with a new design. At the time I believe the plan was already in motion to do a huge story arc with her, keeping her roboticized until 250 or somewhere around there. I recall thinking it was going to be a year or two with her as a robot, and that it could be pretty cool. Knowing that I was going to do so much with the character right from the start allowed me to make certain design decisions during each stage that would eventually be reflected in her new "normal" design (the closed vest for example). 

 

Stage 1- Roboticization

 

This is where I spent the least amount of time. The only specific direction I was given was to use Patrick Spaziante's design from the cover of issue 29, which was totally fine with me.

 

Issue 29 is one of the comic's I purchased as a kid and I recall being bitterly disappointed by her interior design. Spaz's cover made her look cool! I don't recall what the story was about at all, I guess it wasn't very good, but I spent a lot of time admiring that cover.

 

I wanted to capture its essence as much as possible, but also ensure it fit into the current look and feel of the videogame's visual robotic presentation. I've stated this before, but the videogames are what I like. They're what inspired me to read and eventually draw Sonic comics. I want comics that fit perfectly with the games, and I think all of my design choices and philosophy come from that interest. I don't care what's been done in the comic, or how things look in the comic. It's gotta be like the games!

 

So decisions had to be made to flesh out this full design- 

 

Removed the tech patterns across her body, along with additional muscular bumps and bits. Too much detail and incongruous with the games. 

 

Removed the shoulder pads. I knew I was going to design a second form of Mecha Sally and those shoulder pads were looking pretty wicked. I wanted to bring those in later to help sell the idea of her upgrade making her tougher.

 

Solve the problem of her hair. What Spaz drew on the original cover looks neat, but it unfortunately covers the bulk of her hair and just what happens up there. How do those pieces connect and what does it look like as a 3D shape? I drew this a lot, you can see tiny little Sally heads from different views trying to figure out exactly how she works, and eventually managed to get a basic idea for the layered bangs and at least one of Spaz's downward spikes in the back too! 

 

Keep the blue eyes! At least for this form, I think there's something more unsettling about her blue eyes. Like she's so close to being the close friend you've known for the last 15 years, the similarities highlight losing her. 

 

After settling on a general direction, I did the 01 and 02 sketches and sent off to Paul and writer Ian Flynn for review. The only difference between the two is the dark red band of metal at the base of her hair on option 02. Paul and Ian decided to go with 01, but I got really into this band of darker red and brought it back for the weaponized stage, which I'll post later.  

 

I recall Paul wanted to give her thicker thighs and he may have sent a quick doodle my way for the additional metal plates added to her legs in the turnaround at the bottom. It's been two and half years so I can't be certain, but I think that was his idea. If they weren't then I guess I came up with it but either way I liked how weird and slightly difficult they were to draw. I didn't want to just thicken those parts of her legs, I wanted this piece of metal coming off and acting as a type of guard. 

 

Ideas that didn't get used-

 

Up top in the sketches you can make out a quick doodle where I toyed around with the idea of including an actual saw at the base of her hair. That could have been fun.

 

Next to the cover for 29, you'll see a doodle for a potential body design with boots that widen at the bottom. I think that looks pretty cool and might have been a good path to go down. 

 

And finally the examples of Mecha Sonic doing wild stuff with his robot mouth. I always liked how imaginative Spaz was and would have loved to see Mecha Sally do more stuff with her mouth. 

 

My favorite details-

 

The wrist detail from Spaz's original design. 

Her little tail spike.

And those buckles(?) on her boots! 

 

 

Weaponized Mecha Sally

 

This one took a lot more time and a lot more doodling. When I started the design I didn't know what "weaponizing" her actually meant, all I knew was she transformed into a stronger robot. I suppose I thought there was some very specific plans for what she would do and how it would relate to the story, and those details would eventually influence the design decisions. While I waited to find that out I had a vibe in my mind I wanted to explore, which is what all the top sketches are. 

 

The dark red trim/band around the bottom of her hair with the low pointed bangs gave me an idea to imply the shape as a sort of hat, giving her a potential evil military officer vibe.   

 

Looking through the sketches there I guess I started toying around with a big arm cannon, which looks cool, and it didn't take long to start messing around with a powerful laser cannon inside her head/hair (which I'm happy to say become one of her actual weapons used in the comic).

 

As you can see in the color sketches, Sally has very few pieces of metal with her fur tone. Knowing that this design would influence her deroboticized design down the road, gave me the opportunity to start familiarizing the reader with a Sally baring less fur. 

 

I sent these ideas off and was given the direction to try a sleeker body design. Editor Paul Kaminski also stated an interest in designing signature weapons for her, and I'm pretty sure he specified the idea of arm blades, which were super tough to figure out! 

 

I wanted something simple, something that could conceivably be used by an actual enemy in the games.  Although it can vary throughout the last twenty years, Sonic badguys usually fall into a fun and cartoony design approach, they attack with lightbulbs or launch spikes at you. More lethal threats tend to be laser beams, missiles, and bombs. 

Getting away from Eggman's robots, the character's powers and attacks tend to also be simple and unique. Curling up into balls, or a big hammer, or maybe throwing a giant shuriken. I wanted to bend these arm blades over into that kind of thinking as much as I could. Just because I could do anything I wanted to didn't mean I wanted to go for the easy solutions, I wanted it to fit in and be right.

What would it look like if Metal Sonic had arm blades? 

 

Unfortunately I don't think Metal Sonic's blades would look anything like what I came up with. These are too straightforward, too generic. The energy blades are kind of fun I suppose, but they're still not "there".

I did these drawings two and half years ago, and I can see what I might do differently now to come up with a better idea but I don't want to beat myself up too much about it. I was designing three forms of Sally all at the same time after all, my mind was thinking about a lot of stuff. 

 

So from there I did the turnaround and right at the end Paul had the idea to use power rings as her power source and add a compartment to her back. Her chest is very small and I wasn't sure how big power rings were supposed to be, but you can see my suggested solution if there was a size discrepancy. 

 

To be totally honest, when I was working on the Sonic comics I read every issue to stay up to date but around the time Sally was weaponized I started doing work on Mega Man and then eventually for other comic companies and put the story on hold. I've got all the issues stacked up for any future reference, but I really haven't read anything after issue 232. Was the power ring backpack ever shown in an issue? 

 

Oh yeah, and if you didn't notice her backpack is a slightly modified Dreamcast.

 

So because I jumped over to Mega Man I never got the chance to draw a Weaponized Mecha Sally story! It was something I really felt I missed out on. Luckily, during the Worlds Collide arc I got to spend at least one little moment with her.  

 

The last few images are some of my favorite stuff, her attacks and powers! It was a pleasant surprise to learn that I could design her weapons. Aside from Pauls suggestion about the arm blades, I thought it would be cool if she used lightning and tried to think what attacks she would have in a game. 

 

The first image is her using a Lightening Shield to block attacks. I don't know if the Lightening Shield has even been used in the comics before, but if not, more game elements added, haha! I thought she could also capture other characters in the shield.   

 

 

 

 

He hasn't posted part 3 yet.

 

http://benbates.deviantart.com/art/Sally-Redesign-Part-1-419696823

 

http://benbates.deviantart.com/art/Sally-Redesign-Part-2-419872316

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dejimon11]

Yeah that was posted a few pages back

[Jet Prower]

We'd all been telling you this was exactly the way things were going to be this entire time.

 

No one ever mention they would be going this way. I had only been expressing my concern before that I dont want the comics to be direct retelling of the games. Doing what if sequels of the games is a different story, where you are adding in more content, new characters and being original like that are all fine with me. There is a difference between piggybacking the original material and taking the original material and not doing anything with it but instead adding sequels and such onto it instead.

 

Glad to see you enjoyed the issue Jet Prower and that you can see which way the comics will go in terms of game adaptions. I've yet to see the issue myself but I one of the few fans that enjoyed playing Shadow the Hedgehog (I think it's the fact that Shadow doing silly things such as needing to ride a motorcycle or use a weapon when he's the ultimate life form made me laugh) so looking forward to reading it. 

 

If you enjoyed the game, like I did, then I'm sure you will likely enjoy this. I know I keep away from looking at spoilers and head of time covers and such, but this is a nice little surprise and add on to things.

[Toby]

If you'd bother to read anyone's posts other than your own, you'd know that Brian.

[Jet Prower]

Just curious, but does this mean that Black Doom is now fully safe for Archie now? I've heard that forever Black Doom and the Black Arms were off limits, but right here, not only do you have the Black Arms, during the flashback scene, there is Black Doom clearly drawn out as he normally looks. Wouldn't that assume he is fully safe now? That then makes you wonder why if he is safe, why they haven't shown Nega yet, unless they are still building him up.

[Big Panda]

Just curious, but does this mean that Black Doom is now fully safe for Archie now? I've heard that forever Black Doom and the Black Arms were off limits, but right here, not only do you have the Black Arms, during the flashback scene, there is Black Doom clearly drawn out as he normally looks. Wouldn't that assume he is fully safe now? That then makes you wonder why if he is safe, why they haven't shown Nega yet, unless they are still building him up.

No. Since he's still not actually appearing in person.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

We'd all been telling you this was exactly the way things were going to be this entire time.

 

I think it was because some people also advocated ridding the non-game characters and story elements (outside the romance stuff) in the process, like the echidnas and all the stuff that was built upon what Penders established that they also liked, which gave them an entirely different impression.

[goku262002]

 

Just curious, but does this mean that Black Doom is now fully safe for Archie now? I've heard that forever Black Doom and the Black Arms were off limits, but right here, not only do you have the Black Arms, during the flashback scene, there is Black Doom clearly drawn out as he normally looks. Wouldn't that assume he is fully safe now? That then makes you wonder why if he is safe, why they haven't shown Nega yet, unless they are still building him up.

 

I think the rule is that you can show them in flashbacks but they can't be incorperated into the story otherwise.

[Your Vest Friend]

Eck, SU#59 didn't get to the British side of the Atlantic today.

Wonder if it's available in shops in America.

[ElectricAngel]

Eck, SU#59 didn't get to the British side of the Atlantic today.

Wonder if it's available in shops in America.

I'm a subscriber and have yet to get it. I emailed Archie around a week ago, they told me it was delayed. Guess we'll have to wait a bit more. Strange though how it's been available digitally for quite some time.

 

Edit: Yeah, never mind that blabber. I mistook PPP Part 4 for Shadow Fall Part 1. :V

Edited December 18, 2013 by SwiftWinds

[Zaysho]

I guess the issue has been delayed. It's not on Diamond's listing for this week now. Dammit all, I was looking forward to this!

 

It is available on comiXology, but I prefer to get my books in print whenever I can, as that's just my thing. For those that comiXology is a good option, I'd say go for it. I'd rather not double-dip if I can help it.

[Toby]

Not available on midtowncomics either. Probably just a delay, it should be worth the wait.

[Big Panda]

Strange though how it's been available digitally for quite some time.

I didn't know less than a day fell under the category of "quiet some time".

[ElectricAngel]

I didn't know less than a day fell under the category of "quiet some time".

Ah, oops. Seems I mistook SU #58 for #59. My bad. We're talking about Shadow Fall here, right? Yeah, my mistake.

[Blackbell]

Right- got the digital copy today. And...I'm torn. On the one hand the story outline is great. I liked the Shadow the Hedgehog game and I like how this is almost a sequel. I like having Team Dark in the comic. And I LOVED Omega's jokes and love of guns. Written great.

 

And the reasons why I'm not so sure is firstly (very small issue) Omega, according to the first Shadow Saga, is actually Gamma with Omega's body. Though the one thing I loved abut this issue was the Omega jokes it did feel off character to me. But I can ignore this is favour of the new Omega!

 

My biggest issue- Eclipse! I kinda wanted to shout "Ian! What the hell?". The introduction of new characters has never been anything I've worried about in Ian's run. There were a few concerns with M:XYL dark side when he took inspiration from his fan comic for character personalities however due to the story it kinda worked. 

 

Eclipse-  just feels like a really bad fan character has stepped into the comic. 

 

I thought the design of the character would improve from the preview I saw in the special but it still looked unfinished and half assed. The dialogue itself wasn't impressive and the fact he says Shadow is like a brother just put me right off.

 

I hope that the next issue will help clear some of these doubts but at the moment Ian needs to get him written out.