Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Mauro Fonseca]

You're dooming this potential new comic before it even exists. Isn't one of the things that's celebrated about Archie Sonic how it proved various concepts can work despite naysayers (see, for an example, the love our own CSS has for Big in the comics)? Isn't that evidence enough that a comic primarily focused on the games' lore can work, and rejecting the idea already as "bland and wrong" is just kneejerking?

 

EDIT: I don't even like Mega Drive that much, but isnt the reception it's having evidence of what I'm saying here in the first place, even? Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Eggman, Metal Sonic. Works fine.

[SonicComicFanboy]

16 minutes ago, The KKM said:

You're dooming this potential new comic before it even exists. Isn't one of the things that's celebrated about Archie Sonic how it proved various concepts can work despite naysayers (see, for an example, the love our own CSS has for Big in the comics)? Isn't that evidence enough that a comic primarily focused on the games' lore can work, and rejecting the idea already as "bland and wrong" is just kneejerking?

 

EDIT: I don't even like Mega Drive that much, but isnt the reception it's having evidence of what I'm saying here in the first place, even? Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Eggman, Metal Sonic. Works fine.

 What potential new comic?  I see nothing wrong with being against a theoretical comic that would be nowhere near as interesting as the existing one. 

 

 But meh, at the end of the day it's a none issue, the comics will be back on track come March/April and people can finally be at ease.

[Borvoc]

Just want to weigh in that Sega wanting something doesn't make it "right" and that, on the other hand, something being "right" doesn't make Sega's obligated or necessarily even likely to go that direction.

I feel like everyone in this thread who's arguing is taking one of the two above arguments, and I think they're both equally true. One is about Sega's right and the other is about what's right for the franchise and the fans. Sega has the rights whether or not they do what's "right" with them, and it can still be argued what's "right" regardless of Sega's rights.

Personally, as a fan of both the games and the comics, I'd be sad to see the comics go because I feel that the comics have done a much better job of carrying the true action/adventure spirit of the character and the series than the recent games have been doing. If anything, I wish Sega would take some more cues from the comics as well as the Genesis and Adventure games in order to get back that feeling of adventure. I'm not against Sega de-focussing or even removing certain characters or changing things from the way they are now; I'm just worried that Sega lacks the ability to retain the spirit of the franchise in doing so, based on what they've been doing with it recently—not that it can't be done.

[Mauro Fonseca]

1 hour ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

 What potential new comic?  I see nothing wrong with being against a theoretical comic that would be nowhere near as interesting as the existing one.

How do you know this? This theoretical comic hasn't been read by you, yet. For all you know, it can potentially be a new masterpiece of sequential art, here to be placed on the level of a Watchmen or Asterios Polyp. But it doesn't have Sally Acorn and friends as main characters, so automatically it's nowhere near as interesting, despite not existing and thus having no actual constraints other than this?

[Borvoc]

5 minutes ago, The KKM said:

How do you know this? This theoretical comic hasn't been read by you, yet. For all you know, it can potentially be a new masterpiece of sequential art, here to be placed on the level of a Watchmen or Asterios Polyp. But it doesn't have Sally Acorn and friends as main characters, so automatically it's nowhere near as interesting, despite not existing and thus having no actual constraints other than this?

In my opinion, they'd have to fill out the new comic with more characters (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Eggman aren't enough) until it became similar to what the comic already is.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Of course they're not enough, but they can certainly be enough as main cast. You could have a thousand different formats for a Sonic comic that doesn't NEED to be about the FF. They can just as easily be just characters in the mix, like the Chaotix or Honey the Cat.

[Borvoc]

I do not disagree. My fear is not of a new comic but that Sega lacks the understanding to make a comic that's as good as the current one. A hog in the hand is worth two in the hedge and all that :P. I'm not willing to doom the current comic, but I'd be willing to try out a new one alongside it!

[Big Panda]

Quick question: what are the current listed release dates for the delayed issues?

[Shadowlax]

I think a comic without the FF would be super interesting, you can actually... expand on other stuff because the FF and the Archie world isn't a crutch they could rely on. 

You could have stories or even books about other characters that could actually do stuff, and don't need to either fit around whatever main story. And you could actually use characters backgrounds and jobs to actually expand the story , instead of hinting at it but due to cluttered of the comic only barley getting to address that. Like more regular stories about the chaotix doing their job. Or just a book about shadow, that occasionally features GUN, you could actually explain that. Instead of say starting a story line and not addressing it for.... its about 3 years now and due to the delay , might be four. You could actually have sonic does what he actually does and find people to hang out with allowing for said stories instead of being in this weird group. 

I don't know I think it would be cool. 

[Heckboy]

58 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I think a comic without the FF would be super interesting, you can actually... expand on other stuff because the FF and the Archie world isn't a crutch they could rely on. 

You could have stories or even books about other characters that could actually do stuff, and don't need to either fit around whatever main story. And you could actually use characters backgrounds and jobs to actually expand the story , instead of hinting at it but due to cluttered of the comic only barley getting to address that. Like more regular stories about the chaotix doing their job. Or just a book about shadow, that occasionally features GUN, you could actually explain that. Instead of say starting a story line and not addressing it for.... its about 3 years now and due to the delay , might be four. You could actually have sonic does what he actually does and find people to hang out with allowing for said stories instead of being in this weird group. 

I don't know I think it would be cool. 

That would be really cool. But it also means finally letting go of the SatAM/preboot Freedom Fighter superhero squad dynamic after 20+ years of it dominating the comic, and we certainly can't have that.

Edit: I should clarify that I don't want the characters themselves gone -- honestly I don't really care either way at this point -- it's just that I can't stand how everyone is constantly stuck in a boring rebel guerrilla team.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Which is why a number of people here would rather not have it. And I for one stand with them on that--you already have every other media out there without the FF that does that, and it's incredibly disrespectful to disregard those who still love them and want them to live on in the only place they can. You guys say that like simply having them around at all ruins things, even if that's not what your implying--in fact, it's not like you couldn't do that even with the FF around, because isn't that just what they did in the old continuity?

I doubt they would mind a separate one so they can still have the FF here in this one.

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Of course they're not enough, but they can certainly be enough as main cast. You could have a thousand different formats for a Sonic comic that doesn't NEED to be about the FF. They can just as easily be just characters in the mix, like the Chaotix or Honey the Cat.

How much in the mix tho? Having them like the Chaotix or Honey implies they'll be used much less than their fans would like, and while I can understand sharing the spotlight more with other characters, the FF (well, everyone really, but we're focused on the FF here) should a lot more utility than that, at least akin to Knuckles and Shadow who are not central, but still major characters that have a lot of frequency.

Especially given that the primary fear here (and one I sympathize with) is the FF being completely removed, or made even less prominent than their fans would like. And that is turning off a number of people to this theoretical new comic.

I suppose things like this make it understandable why Sega opts for Sonica-solo.

[Borvoc]

You're saying that if there are fewer characters fighting for the spotlight, they all get more time to shine and their fans don't complain?

[SonicComicFanboy]

32 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Quick question: what are the current listed release dates for the delayed issues?

 Sonic #291-#293 March 22nd

Sonic Overdrive March 29th

Sonic Universe #95-97 April 12th

And Sonic #294 is set for April 26th

And Worlds Collide Vol. 3 is still set for March 8th I believe. And Volume 5: Champions is set for an April release, Universe Sagas 1 for May, Megadrive TP for July & Sonic vol 6 for August.

 

And the Sonic Super Special Magazine #14 is still set for Feb 22nd for now, but not holding my breath on that one.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why not balance the spotlight? Not everyone has to have it all the time.

[Shadowlax]

18 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

How much in the mix tho? Having them like the Chaotix or Honey implies they'll be used much less than their fans would like, and while I can understand sharing the spotlight more with other characters, the FF (well, everyone really, but we're focused on the FF here) should a lot more utility than that, at least akin to Knuckles and Shadow who are not central, but still major characters that have a lot of frequency.

 

TBH, they wouldn't be. Shadow, knuckles, tails and and amy would probably be given more solo isolated attention they are super popular and while not the main guy, can be guys by themselves. The FF would require another character to function or to be interesting in a story, so them being something that pops up every once in a while... would totally make sense. I mean they wouldn't show up anyway, as soon as this hypothetical new comic would arise, they would be buried faster than all the echidinas, lets be real here you are never seeing them again. 

But hypothetically if they did show up, other characters got priority. They only reason they here now, is because Archie said please. 

Not trying to be rude, there is a who's who hierarchy, and the FF don't rank too high on the list.  

8 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Why not balance the spotlight? Not everyone has to have it all the time.

Its not about balance, its about who people want to see, unfortunately. 

They gotta sell books. 

Shrugs

[Shadowlax]

52 minutes ago, Mister X said:

That would be really cool. But it also means finally letting go of the SatAM/preboot Freedom Fighter superhero squad dynamic after 20+ years of it dominating the comic, and we certainly can't have that.

Here's my problem with the hero dynamic, I feel like it could work... just not with sonic. Sonic I feel is a guy who is like... a fun uncle, he comes through you go on an adventure, he leaves and you had a fun day with your crazy blue uncle. I'm not saying every sonic story has to be this way, but that's what I feel is more true to the character. 

However the idea of a group... I feel is kind of fine? For knuckles, maybe not, I like choatix separated from him. 

But for a character like, amy a group she hooks up regularly with would be perfect. Amy, at least comic amy is this very nice... like dick grayson type character, while not ever character agrees with her, they seem to respect her in some regard. And I could totally see due to her genuinely good personality, and love of peace could allow for groups to just naturally form around her. I would totally read a comic book that would be just Amy , Blaze, Cream and whoever is apart of the group that day. 

Another group candidate is shadow. Shadow despite is personality is more than willing to work in groups, and you could have fun with that. You could have a situation where like there are gun agents... who think shadow is like super cool, and want to be apart of team dark. I think the eggman episode of sonic boom was actually super interesting in that regard, because while yes it could be meta commentary... in universe.The most interesting thing about the FF in years is that there are fan groups copying the FF.  If shadow existed, there probably would be like cults formed around this guy let alone a fan club. Some gun agents, who are also conveniently animals, going gaga over shadow and thinking his cool , maybe they are some young recruits and he has to show em the ropes , so to speak. Or He beats up a gang, and now they want him to be leader. 

I feel like sonic being in a group as a waste, I don't think the FF group dynamical was that interesting anyway. The couple characters I think are worth crap, Antione and Bunny could easily work just being characters in the word. And when they tried to do something interesting with the FF it always felt out of character for sonic or in the case of one of the worst arcs of all time, I forget the name but the thing with fiona, having act completely out of character. When there are more intersting characters I feel would flow naturally into an idea of a group. 

Another example, chaotix hires some interns, 

[Heckboy]

17 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Here's my problem with the hero dynamic, I feel like it could work... just not with sonic. Sonic I feel is a guy who is like... a fun uncle, he comes through you go on an adventure, he leaves and you had a fun day with your crazy blue uncle. I'm not saying every sonic story has to be this way, but that's what I feel is more true to the character. 

However the idea of a group... I feel is kind of fine? For knuckles, maybe not, I like choatix separated from him. 

But for a character like, amy a group she hooks up regularly with would be perfect. Amy, at least comic amy is this very nice... like dick grayson type character, while not ever character agrees with her, they seem to respect her in some regard. And I could totally see due to her genuinely good personality, and love of peace could allow for groups to just naturally form around her. I would totally read a comic book that would be just Amy , Blaze, Cream and whoever is apart of the group that day. 

Another group candidate is shadow. Shadow despite is personality is more than willing to work in groups, and you could have fun with that. You could have a situation where like there are gun agents... who think shadow is like super cool, and want to be apart of team dark. I think the eggman episode of sonic boom was actually super interesting in that regard, because while yes it could be meta commentary... in universe.The most interesting thing about the FF in years is that there are fan groups copying the FF.  If shadow existed, there probably would be like cults formed around this guy let alone a fan club. Some gun agents, who are also conveniently animals, going gaga over shadow and thinking his cool , maybe they are some young recruits and he has to show em the ropes , so to speak. Or He beats up a gang, and now they want him to be leader. 

I feel like sonic being in a group as a waste, I don't think the FF group dynamical was that interesting anyway. The couple characters I think are worth crap, Antione and Bunny could easily work just being characters in the word. And when they tried to do something interesting with the FF it always felt out of character for sonic or in the case of one of the worst arcs of all time, I forget the name but the thing with fiona, having act completely out of character. When there are more intersting characters I feel would flow naturally into an idea of a group. 

Another example, chaotix hires some interns, 

Yeah, I mean, the thing is I'd like to see wanderer Sonic explored in a comic. I'd love to see a Sonic who freely goes on adventures and meets people and stops trouble where he finds it, instead of a Sonic who just acts like a cocky soldier, lives on a battleship, and sits in mission briefings. It does feel like a waste. Mega Drive handled it nicely -- Sonic is just doing his thing, finds Tails, learns that Eggman's being a dick, and the story goes from there. Not that EVERY story should be structured EXACTLY in the same style, but there's plenty of story variety you can have with a character like that. It's great how the reboot finally separated Knuckles from the Chaotix and made them more like their game selves, and I think it would've also been great if it could've done the same for Sonic and the Freedom Fighters.

The reboot, given that it was a fresh start, could've been a great chance to try a new approach. But it didn't, and I feel the main book's suffered because of it. A lot of times the Freedom Fighters just feel like they're... there. I don't mind having groups in the comic -- like the Chaotix, for instance, work great as a team. But the Freedom Fighters... I think constraining them in a team and trying to keep up with all of them doesn't really do any of the characters justice. There needs to be a focus on Sonic since he's the star, but there's also like eight other main characters. And because of the way things are set up, some are more fleshed out than others despite how all of them, together, are supposed to be the recurring cast. The team's just bloated as it is right now. Universe has usually felt like the superior comic, probably because it isn't held back by the same problems.

Those upcoming issues, with Honey and all? Stuff like that's cool. I hope that becomes the status quo going forward (assuming the comic isn't dead). 

[QuantumEdge]

13 minutes ago, Mister X said:

Yeah, I mean, the thing is I'd like to see wanderer Sonic explored in a comic. I'd love to see a Sonic who freely goes on adventures and meets people and stops trouble where he finds it, instead of a Sonic who just acts like a cocky soldier, lives on a battleship, and sits in mission briefings. It does feel like a waste. Mega Drive handled it nicely -- Sonic is just doing his thing, finds Tails, learns that Eggman's being a dick, and the story goes from there. Not that EVERY story should be structured EXACTLY in the same style, but there's plenty of story variety you can have with a character like that. It's great how the reboot finally separated Knuckles from the Chaotix and made them more like their game selves, and I think it would've also been great if it could've done the same for Sonic and the Freedom Fighters.

The reboot, given that it was a fresh start, could've been a great chance to try a new approach. But it didn't, and I feel the main book's suffered because of it. A lot of times the Freedom Fighters just feel like they're... there. I don't mind having groups in the comic -- like the Chaotix, for instance, work great as a team. But the Freedom Fighters... I think constraining them in a team and trying to keep up with all of them doesn't really do any of the characters justice. There needs to be a focus on Sonic since he's the star, but there's also like eight other main characters, and because of the way things are set up, some are more fleshed out than others despite how all of them together are supposed to be the recurring cast. The team's just bloated as it is right now. Universe has usually felt like the superior comic, probably because it isn't held back by the same problems.

Those upcoming issues, with Honey and all? Stuff like that's cool. I hope that becomes the status quo going forward (assuming the comic isn't dead). 

Considering the solicits of recent, a more wandering Sonic is more than likely the case and just like you I'm totally fine with it.  What's interesting with the FFs though is that the upcoming SU story might show the best means of using them as opposed to the crack team commando squad they've been for donkey's years: Sonic teaming up with one after another in a little story that skews away from his own every now and again.  It's a sort of best of both worlds scenario.

[Kintor]

Technically speaking, the Freedom Fighters did get an appearance in Sonic Spinball. Albeit in a special stage. Still, that's ground enough to elevate the Freedom Fighters to the same status as all the other Sega game characters.  

Beyond that I think that it would be shame to see the Freedom Fighters disappear from the pages of the comics, if indeed there is still a future for Sonic comics. Granted I'm somewhat biased, since SatAM is my favourite Sonic cartoon of all time. Even so, I quite like the dynamic that the Freedom Fighters brought to Sonic stories. Decades before Sonic Heroes, the existence of the Freedom Fighters offered an example of what a coordinated team fighter Dr Robotnik could actually look like. Furthermore, the Archie comics have done great work elaborating upon SatAM's foundations, helping to keep the Freedom Fighters relatively up-to-date with the rest of the comic.

By this point the Freedom Fighters are as much a part of the comic as Sonic himself. Getting rid of the Freedom Fighters might well just alienate long-time comic fans, more so then the reboot itself. The sense of familiarity offered by the returning Freedom Fighters in the new continuity is probably one of the major factors that has helped the Sonic comics survive turmoil with its fanbase still loyally buying each new issue.

[Heckboy]

13 minutes ago, QuantumEdge said:

Considering the solicits of recent, a more wandering Sonic is more than likely the case and just like you I'm totally fine with it.  What's interesting with the FFs though is that the upcoming SU story might show the best means of using them as opposed to the crack team commando squad they've been for donkey's years: Sonic teaming up with one after another in a little story that skews away from his own every now and again.  It's a sort of best of both worlds scenario.

Exactly, I think how they're being used in the Universe arc is a better approach. I'd much rather see them show up one or two at a time when Sonic encounters them during his travels every so often and actually have their appearances be more meaningful and interesting, instead of them ALWAYS being around but not always doing much of anything, or doing repetitive paramilitary operations.

[SonicComicFanboy]

 

18 minutes ago, Mister X said:

Exactly, I think how they're being used in the Universe arc is a better approach. I'd much rather see them show up one or two at a time when Sonic encounters them during his travels every so often and actually have their appearances be more meaningful and interesting, instead of them ALWAYS being around but not always doing much of anything, or doing repetitive paramilitary operations.

 I guess I could see this working, it could be a good way to balance things out and keep both SATAM & SEGA Sonic fans happy.   And I agree in just general terms of story structure you don't need all Sonic characters in one story, go with what works best for the Narrative, as you pointed out what they are doing with the Freedom Fighter arc in SU looks pretty good, mixing SEGA Chars & FF characters that fit for the story they are trying to tell.  On top of that since we do still get issues of STH that have 2-stories occasionally they could also do a main story focusing on sonic and a back-up focusing on the FF or other characters in the franchise like they have done off & on in the past.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Says a lot that during the rushed parts of Shattered World that people here were more interested in the parts that weren't about the repetitive action scenes outside of Universe. 

Wouldn't mind a shake up of the FF where each team member splits off with a game character and base a story around those two interacting, which is kinda a shame that the upcoming Universe arcs are divided into single stand alone stories. Bunnie and Blaze or Sally, Amy, and Cream having a whole arc together sounds like something that would be ab awesome four parter each.

I don't think anyone would mind less "paramilitary operations" or whatever and more just characters exploring. Mind you, I like the "paramilitary operations" thing, but balance is always key. Shattered World's rushed parts showed that can't work every damn time, and for good reason given that it wears itself out when you prolong it.

Quote

 

TBH, they wouldn't be. Shadow, knuckles, tails and and amy would probably be given more solo isolated attention they are super popular and while not the main guy, can be guys by themselves. The FF would require another character to function or to be interesting in a story, so them being something that pops up every once in a while... would totally make sense. I mean they wouldn't show up anyway, as soon as this hypothetical new comic would arise, they would be buried faster than all the echidinas, lets be real here you are never seeing them again. 

But hypothetically if they did show up, other characters got priority. They only reason they here now, is because Archie said please. 

Not trying to be rude, there is a who's who hierarchy, and the FF don't rank too high on the list.  

Says who? Remember that Sega is indifferent to the comics as far as we're aware, and this so called priority and hierarchy doesn't exist here in the way it does in the games else it would already be the case right now. That the FF even continue to exist when the liscencor could have put their foot down regardless of the comic team asking to keep them around shows that they're not that caring about who is present and how much spotlight they get.

And my point was addressing a hypothetical comic where they do show up, so how about you address that point more and not based on your grievances that I quite frankly do not care about.

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Its not about balance, its about who people want to see, unfortunately. 

They gotta sell books. 

Shrugs

No, it's precisely about balance--even people here who like things as they have made a point about the current comic's flaws in that department. Heck, I've called it out plenty of times, so even I know that more quality work could be done here.

You don't put characters in just because people want to see them because that's not how you tell a good story that people came here for--if that was even remotely true, we'd have seen the games use its characters more than just cheerleaders, which it has yet to do since Sonic 06 and people wouldn't be fussing about the games' story telling post Unleashed when things started getting joke-heavy even with characters that are present. But that ignores things like context, settings, and motivation if not the entire process of storytelling in general, which does not do any work any good. 

And plenty of people want to see the FF as much as Shadow and Knuckles fans want to see their favorites--unless you have official sources and statistics proving who wants to see who more, your opinion of characters you don't care for makes little difference to the next fan that does care or Sega themselves, because you don't speak for the whole (divided) fandom and should stop acting like you do. It doesn't matter if one group of fans wants to see Knuckles, if it makes more sense to put Sally in a major position then so be it.

That goes double considering that comics as a whole are a pretty niche market as it is, which even Ian has pointed out regarding the sales which people had a scare of the fewer issues being bought somehow indicating a risk of poor performance (it didn't, that's just an aspect of the comic industry entirely). Even hit that is Mega Drive doesn't hit that big a dent in sales in the long run.

[Your Vest Friend]

A Bunnie and Blaze or a Sally, Amy and Cream 4 part arc would be less likely to be done nowadays because...well...I need to write up the notes on the latest episode soon, but Ian talks about that issue. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

A Bunnie and Blaze or a Sally, Amy and Cream 4 part arc would be less likely to be done nowadays because...well...I need to write up the notes on the latest episode soon, but Ian talks about that issue. 

What's the gist of it at least?

[Your Vest Friend]

Just now, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

What's the gist of it at least?

Sexism.

That's enough of a gist, right?