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Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog


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#5361 Agent York

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:10 PM

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Oui, I hate to drag an annoying argument back up, but I want to bring up a few things. First is, while I understand how many people feel that romance doesn't belong in their Sonic, it is one of the most fought over elements when it honestly has been lessened by a shit-ton ever since Ian took over. And yet people are complaining about it more, likely since the readership has grown, but you're all acting like somehow the romance in the comic has grown or taken over the comic when in reality it has taken several steps back and the focus these days is more on the adventures and other areas of character development rather than romance. Romance has been part of the source material of the series since the beginning, like it or not there were romance elements in SATAM, and like it or not the opinion of people who like the romance element is just as valid as those who don't like it. You can call it a fanfic all you want, but it is officially endorsed by SEGA, the comic is one of the best selling children comics currently, and is it's own universe that's been running for almost as long as the series itself. People who are labeling it, "nothing more than a fanfic because element 'X' is in it," are, sorry to say, nothing but butthurt over this. And I'm being just as much so only because I get tired of seeing the exact same complaints month after month even when there really is no issue here, it's just this one element of development doesn't adhere to your fan jollies.

You also need to remember it is a Children's comic, or family comic. I know some kids who absolutely love the comic personally, and have heard stories previously of plenty of young boys and girls who love the comic as it is. Ian has been working slowly but surely to make the transition of more game elements into the comic without abandoning the elements that aren't just like the games. I'm not saying you have to like everything and criticism is fine, but if all your complaining about is what a whole lot of other people like a lot about the comic, their liking of the element is just as valid as your dislike, and is less an actual problem than an opinion. Especially when said element has, honestly, self-improved itself a lot in the last few years.

And bwrosas, stop acting like Ian has some secret agenda and there's some huge conspiracy about the Sonic comics. You write well enough and seem intelligent besides the fact I can't for the life of me figure out what you're trying to achieve by insisting that Ian is some mastermind of emotions and craft to trick people into liking the comic. It sounds like you're butthurt being banned off his forums or something.

(I don't usually do posts like these, but it's getting tiring seeing the same thing month after month. Will this solve it? Probably not. Just wanted to get it off my chest)

Edited by Dusk Golem, 07 October 2011 - 02:15 PM.


#5362 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:23 PM

Regarding anti-Amy, while I agree it she was somewhat funny in a creepy way, the concept is really not an anti but rather an over exaggeration of all of the bad traits of Amy to create a caricature of her that as someone already pointed out, feels like a way to mock the character, a real anti would had been the diametrical opposite of her, and considering how Amy adores Sonic, is cheerful, selfless and kind, a proper anti-Amy should hate Sonic's guts, be pesimistic (and a bit sarcastic) as well as mean and selfish, which would work wonders if confronted with the real Amy because she would mock her infatuation and say things that hurt.


To be fair, none of the Moebius versions of the main cast are "true" antis. If they were, then Scourge wouldn't have a massive ego, Miles wouldn't be good with technology, Alicia wouldn't be so confident, etc etc. The antis really are just the main cast with no moral compasses and skewed personalities. If Rosy is an exaggeration of Amy's "bad traits" with a bit of nastiness thrown on top, then so are the rest of 'em. It's not really an attack on Amy if it's the status quo for the construction of ALL of them.


I liked anti-Amy when she was genuinely homicidal and maniacal, until half way through the story she transformed into a looney tunes character.


She did go a little over the top. But still, I liked her even then. Comic relief. (And Scourge's absolute terror in her presence cracks me up XD).

#5363 The-Master-Board

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:50 PM

@Dusk Golem
Here here! Finally someone who makes some sense.
I honestly can't stand the sheer amount of bitching some people go on and on about with this comic series. Romance is a part of the comic, deal with it.
It's not like everything else takes a backseat. Just like a properly functioning comic universe should, the Sonic Universe has romance plots as well as political plots character building plots, dramatic plots and action plots.
I'm really tired of hearing the whinning that goes on here by some people who act like the comic is some soap opera or something. Plus there is a simple option: don't read the damn thing if you hate it so much!

#5364 CC14 the Vipester

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:00 PM

Agreed with Dusk Golem. If anything, Ian's done a good job at creating a healthy balance between the adventure and more personal moments. It's not a total soap opera like it was around the middle of the run, but it's not a total action-fest either. Sure, there was a plot or two that could've been handled better, but overall, I'm pretty happy with how Ian has been running things.

#5365 bwrosas

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:38 PM

And bwrosas, stop acting like Ian has some secret agenda and there's some huge conspiracy about the Sonic comics. You write well enough and seem intelligent besides the fact I can't for the life of me figure out what you're trying to achieve by insisting that Ian is some mastermind of emotions and craft to trick people into liking the comic. It sounds like you're butthurt being banned off his forums or something.


I'm not saying he does, he just doesn't give a straight hint of what or who could be affectd, so the fans can be ready for whatever.

#5366 DarkLight

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:00 PM

^Well, that's the thing, a writer is not supposed to reveal everything that's going to happen. If we knew everything he was planning, there'd be no drama or tension. Nothing would be suprising. Simply speculating about what will happen is a part of the fun when anticipating a comic, game, etc.

Take Sonic Generations for example. Most if not all the stages have been leaked from the demo. While it did excite most people at first and still does, it does take away some of the suprise the game was supposed to give (if of course, you're the kind to give in to spoilers, at least.)

#5367 Toby Barrett

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:27 PM


I'm not saying he does, he just doesn't give a straight hint of what or who could be affectd, so the fans can be ready for whatever.

He's doing his job, ya dink. He's not SUPPOSED to let you know what's going to happen.

#5368 Sorceror Spudhead

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:35 PM

Mr Flynn is well trained in the art of Secrecy. Much better to keep his secrets close until they can be used for dramatic effect.

#5369 bwrosas

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:12 PM

Yeah well that's why I'm not doing any video/audio/text reviews of current issues for awhile or opening the issues up when I get them in the mail. And I'm not saying give spoilers away, just clue fans in on who will have huge or small parts in the storyarc

Edited by bwrosas, 07 October 2011 - 07:13 PM.


#5370 tsz11

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:01 AM

To be fair, none of the Moebius versions of the main cast are "true" antis. If they were, then Scourge wouldn't have a massive ego, Miles wouldn't be good with technology, Alicia wouldn't be so confident, etc etc. The antis really are just the main cast with no moral compasses and skewed personalities. If Rosy is an exaggeration of Amy's "bad traits" with a bit of nastiness thrown on top, then so are the rest of 'em. It's not really an attack on Amy if it's the status quo for the construction of ALL of them. She did go a little over the top. But still, I liked her even then. Comic relief. (And Scourge's absolute terror in her presence cracks me up XD).

Rosy does hate scourge, but the reason she is insane is because, In the Prime Zone, AMy used a special ring to make herself older. But the Anti AMy, when she used the ring, It screwed her mind and all she wants to do now is SMASHY SCOURGEY.
SHe probably used to be an exact opposite of AMy.

And and Anti Tails would still be good with tech. Antis are usually just different in Personallity, not Skills.

Tails hates the name MILES, has a childish personality, But deep down hes a Brave hero.

Miles hates the name TAILS, has a Mature personality, But deep down hes a Scared little boy.

Anti Knuckles hates violence, gaurds many emeralds to keep the air dome of SUNKEN ISland perfect.

#5371 Soniman

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:06 AM

Alicia can be a tolerable peasant with many flaws and very cowardly

Patch would be have been brave and dashing at first, but to mirror Antione's development, he beacomes weak and cowardly, right after his divorce. :P

#5372 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:07 AM

And and Anti Tails would still be good with tech. Antis are usually just different in Personallity, not Skills.

Tails hates the name MILES, has a childish personality, But deep down hes a Brave hero.

Miles hates the name TAILS, has a Mature personality, But deep down hes a Scared little boy.


I don't think that Miles and Tails are as opposite as you think. I think Miles' personality is just a darker and more intense version of Tails'. Tails doesn't like being treated like a child - he's complained about it in the past - but doesn't go out of his way to be seen as grown up. Miles, on the other hand, hates being seen as a child so much that he goes out of his way to appear as grown up and competent as possible. They're not opposites at all, they just grew up in different worlds: one with a darker underlying energy than the other.

The same goes for Scourge, Alicia, all of them. They're really not opposites at all. Scourge's ego, for example, is just Sonic's confident attitude gone out of control and lacking the moral compass that keeps Sonic in check.

That's why I find them interesting. That's why they're my favourite characters. They're more than just black/white polar opposites of each other. They're the same people living a different life in a world where moral compasses are flipped.

#5373 Way Past Cool

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:41 AM

The antis are definitely not polar opposites. You could try to bend and twist some of their behavior to be opposite to their Mobian counterparts, but it's at a stretch. In fact, a lot of the supposed opposite behavior that many people are refering to here are a direct result of Anti-Sonic's very unpredictable transformation into Scourge.

Miles is definitely not a scared little boy-- he organized a coup d'etat against a very danerous tyrant. Yes, he was frightened when super Scourge figured out he was behind the mutiny... but damn, who wouldn't have been? He was one Silver away from being singled out and creamed into oblivion. But what other example has there been of some hidden immaturity? None that I can see. He's still everything Tails is, but twisted towards a sinister cause.

Alicia is VERY similar to Sally, but again, her ethics are just skewed. She would be the monarch IF Scourge's new god-like powers hadn't been tossed into the mix. However, she maintains her tactical prowess and is ready to reclaim power when Scourge is out of the picture -- she's even diplomatic enough to concede some of that power to Miles.

You could argue that Patch is more of a personality opposite to Antoine, since he lacks the cowardice that marks Antoine's persona. But Antoine has also be a very jealous and sometimes vindictive character, which Patch is ALSO in spades.... so this one is difficult, but still definitely not personality polar opposites.

Boomer is Rotor on steroids... a Rotor who pushed his technological prowess past the ethical boundary. Again, an evil exaggeration, not an opposite.

And I think it goes without saying that Scourge and Sonic are extremely similar in many ways, just with moral differences. They say it best themselves... it would be so easy for one to be just like the other.

Edited by Way Past Cool, 08 October 2011 - 12:44 AM.


#5374 tsz11

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:46 AM

The antis are definitely not polar opposites. You could try to bend and twist some of their behavior to be opposite to their Mobian counterparts, but it's at a stretch. In fact, a lot of the supposed opposite behavior that many people are refering to here are a direct result of Anti-Sonic's very unpredictable transformation into Scourge.

Miles is definitely not a scared little boy-- he organized a coup d'etat against a very danerous tyrant. Yes, he was frightened when super Scourge figured out he was behind the mutiny... but damn, who wouldn't have been? He was one Silver away from being singled out and creamed into oblivion. But what other example has there been of some hidden immaturity? None that I can see. He's still everything Tails is, but twisted towards a sinister cause.

Alicia is VERY similar to Sally, but again, her ethics are just skewed. She would be the monarch IF Scourge's new god-like powers hadn't been tossed into the mix. However, she maintains her tactical prowess and is ready to reclaim power when Scourge is out of the picture -- she's even diplomatic enough to concede some of that power to Miles.

You could argue that Patch is more of a personality opposite to Antoine, since he lacks the cowardice that marks Antoine's persona. But Antoine has also be a very jealous and sometimes vindictive character, which Patch is ALSO in spades.... so this one is difficult, but still definitely not personality polar opposites.

Boomer is Rotor on steroids... a Rotor who pushed his technological prowess past the ethical boundary. Again, an evil exaggeration, not an opposite.

And I think it goes without saying that Scourge and Sonic are extremely similar in many ways, just with moral differences. They say it best themselves... it would be so easy for one to be just like the other.

I agree that the Moebians are similar to the Mobians but there are some opposites in there.

#5375 Soniman

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:48 AM

Where does that leave Buns? Shes with the good side right?

#5376 tsz11

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:51 AM

Where does that leave Buns? Shes with the good side right?

Yes, Kintobor is helping her because she developed some disease in her Left Arm, And Both legs.

She USED TO be with the Suppression Squad.

ALso ANti Bunnie is also Anti Omega (Omega Care Unit)

#5377 turbojet

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 03:36 PM

One giant post addressing something that makes no damn sense and the others that I actually want to engage in.

Oui, I hate to drag an annoying argument back up, but I want to bring up a few things. First is, while I understand how many people feel that romance doesn't belong in their Sonic, it is one of the most fought over elements when it honestly has been lessened by a shit-ton ever since Ian took over. And yet people are complaining about it more, likely since the readership has grown, but you're all acting like somehow the romance in the comic has grown or taken over the comic when in reality it has taken several steps back and the focus these days is more on the adventures and other areas of character development rather than romance. Romance has been part of the source material of the series since the beginning, like it or not there were romance elements in SATAM, and like it or not the opinion of people who like the romance element is just as valid as those who don't like it. You can call it a fanfic all you want, but it is officially endorsed by SEGA, the comic is one of the best selling children comics currently, and is it's own universe that's been running for almost as long as the series itself. People who are labeling it, "nothing more than a fanfic because element 'X' is in it," are, sorry to say, nothing but butthurt over this. And I'm being just as much so only because I get tired of seeing the exact same complaints month after month even when there really is no issue here, it's just this one element of development doesn't adhere to your fan jollies.

First off, romance may have been a part, and I use that word liberally, of the source material( for real, I thought you were talking about Mass Effect here), but it was nowhere near as prevalent. As VEJI pointed out, there were never huge substantial episodes of SATAM dedicated to romance and nothing but romance. It never drove character motive like the whole Sonic and Tails fight which I will bring up later. It was done in teases so drop that argument right there. And we are talking about a source that in itself a very small part of the franchise and hardly representational of the entire franchise, but since you want to bring up the "source material," something that I watched as a kid, then okay it is on. Nobody, here, wants Bunnie, Antoine, Rotor, or Uncle Chuck to be gone because they have never controlled a substantial part of the book. They serve their purpose as side characters whose interests who stay tangible for a few issues. The only person who has made such assertion is Chooch, but damn does he ever make his presence a constant reminder,right? Just because the book has gotten better about the romance,which isn't saying much because it was nothing but a highschool drama previously, doesn't mean there isn't any right to complain and just because that romantic teases of the source were there, doesn't mean that it was a substantial part of the source.

Second, character development? What character development? Sonic hasn't learned anything. He is still the same hyperactive, belligerent, blue hedgehog that he has always been, but admittedly, that has to do with Sega. Sally hasn't developed at all as opposed to merely given random, desirable traits. The only characters that has received any cognizable development in the past 300 issues including Sonic Universe and Knuckles are Rotor, Antoine, Eggman(who fucking needed it because he was derailed to Team Rocket status), and Scourge. Tails has been reduced to nothing, but the head mechanic whose status of being Sonic's best friend is nothing but an informed status. Knuckles is completely insulated from the main cast with a whole heap of characters with him. Shadow, Rouge, Omega, Amy, Blaze, and Cream are reduced to having their own mini-adventures that mean nothing to the central focus of the story. People who do have an issue with the comic complain about the lack of interaction that Sonic has with any other character which is a valid complaint. It becomes a comic book with Sonic in it which it shouldn't be.

Finally, so what if SEGA endorses it? SEGA is a corporation who is only out to make money. SEGA sees it as nothing more than promotion to sell their games. Assassin's Creed has tons of side material which was approved by Ubisoft and not the AC team that the actual creators do ignore. Sonic Team, the people who actually made the damn franchise, do not recognize the book and has gone out its way to ignore it. I also like to point out why the comic series is so successful. It is not the writing which people have taken issue with. It is the success of the games.

You also need to remember it is a Children's comic, or family comic. I know some kids who absolutely love the comic personally, and have heard stories previously of plenty of young boys and girls who love the comic as it is. Ian has been working slowly but surely to make the transition of more game elements into the comic without abandoning the elements that aren't just like the games. I'm not saying you have to like everything and criticism is fine, but if all your complaining about is what a whole lot of other people like a lot about the comic, their liking of the element is just as valid as your dislike, and is less an actual problem than an opinion. Especially when said element has, honestly, self-improved itself a lot in the last few years.

Look at them. Grown ass men and women loving a franchise that is targeted at little girls. They are going gaga over magical ponies. Why? Because each character is written wonderfully and each tale is logically well told. Not one pony, dragon, or whatever has some bland personality that encompasses the entire book and just doesn't fit. Young Justice is targeted at teenage boys yet that doesn't excuse Greg Weisman to write anything he damn well pleases. Point is that just because it is a children's book does not stop it from being written well nor is it a excuse for poor writing. As I love the subtle interchanging of the terms "romance stories" and "personal stories," lets differentiate between the concepts. A conceptual definition for each term. Personal stories aren't just romance. They aren't just between a male and female or any character that is romantically involved. It could have to do with family, friends, or just nemesis, and that should be enough to drive a plot. As I noted earlier, Sonic and Tails had that very unnecessary element thrown into their fight. Tails had every motivation to be against Sonic since his dad was thrown in prison by the king, whether it was just or unjust is up to interpretation, and Sonic criticized the rebellion, calling it stupid. Tails didn't and shouldn't have needed Sonic's involvement with Fiona because Tails had enough motivation and the fight already had an emotional and personal story. Yet we get tacked with the redundant element of "You stole the woman that I loved" which was the main reason or enough of a reason to make Tails attack essentially his brother and hero. It makes Tails look a petty child, Sonic look like a douche, and the writer look incredibly short sided.

Stories where Rotor went to save his family and friends from being pawns of Eggman or Bunnie fought Sonic for the freedom of a certain DEL group from the Sandblasters are great stories that didn't have to be driven by shit that is plaguing the book. Tales where Tails had to fight an entire armada of birds to save his newlywed friends from being prisoners are welcome. Quests about Sonic going on a date with Sally and nothing else like in 222 suck. Stories about Sonic, Monkey Khan, Sally, and Tails traveling to the Dragon Kingdom to convince the clans to leave the Iron Dominion only to turn into nothing but a girl vacationing to her new love interest's kingdom while her old one just obsesses over them while dismembering their enemy's alliances on the side. All of this while her kingdom is under siege and in desperate need for reinforcements.

I agree that the Moebians are similar to the Mobians but there are some opposites in there.


It also shows the other character's potential. Tails lacks the ambition of Miles, but if he had just a little, Tails could be a force to be reckoned with.

#5378 Barry the Nomad

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:07 PM

Man! Jason Berry is giving my first name a bad name! I love ya dude, but the Genesis review on the front page is balls. Totally disagree. Pardon my language, but fuck story. It was an adaptation of the first two genesis games which had a thin plot as it is. Archie wrapped the fun nostalgic game plots in a lovely Spaziante art burrito. I'll crack open the issues again and again just for Spaz's work.

#5379 Soniman

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:10 PM

Man! Jason Berry is giving my first name a bad name! I love ya dude, but the Genesis review on the front page is balls. Totally disagree. Pardon my language, but fuck story. It was an adaptation of the first two genesis games which had a thin plot as it is. Archie wrapped the fun nostalgic game plots in a lovely Spaziante art burrito. I'll crack open the issues again and again just for Spaz's work.


I agree, I thought it was a fun. colorful little story with great artwork that was a nice commemoration of the 20th anniversary.

#5380 American Ristar

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:13 PM

Just as a counterpoint Turbo, #222 is acceptable (and I said it back then too) when you realize it is the last point before Naugus, Geoff, Sally's "death", Genesis, and what's to follow next. We needed to be reminded of Sonally because it was being smashed into pieces. Also, Jason Berry is a reviewer?

Edited by Dabnikz, 08 October 2011 - 04:13 PM.





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